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 Discussions on AYP Pranayama, Mudras and Bandhas
 My latest kechari problem
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Feb 17 2010 :  11:02:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I have gotten rid of all the tendon underneath the frenum through "creative snipping."

I did go to dental school for three years until my enlightenment experience took over...

Problem is that, the TOP ATTACHMENT IS TOO HIGH. I still have a frenum of pure mucosa (what you guys call skin).

alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Feb 26 2010 :  3:20:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe a picture would help

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/...n/tongue.jpg
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Feb 26 2010 :  3:29:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Alwayson.....

Your frenulum is not attached too high if that is your tongue in the picture. My tongue tether is much higher then that and I too have little to no frenulum left. I think your problem (based on the picture) is likely that your tongue is a little short. It may be helpful to actively engage in some tongue milking and other stretching exercises. I can get all the way into Kechari stage 4 now (well, I can put the tongue in the nostril holes anyways), but I still can't get the tongue behind the uvula without using a finger to push it back. What made it possible for me to get into the higher stages of Kechari was totally stretching it. I couldn't get into stage 2 even after having almost no frenulum left (about as much as you have). Once I started tongue milking everyday before pranayam, I soon found myself with enough length to get all the way up into the nostril holes.

Hope this helps.

Love!
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Feb 26 2010 :  5:02:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes that is my tongue.

Thanks for the idea of stretching. I have not tried that in a LONG time, so maybe thats the answer.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Feb 26 2010 :  10:29:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Carson. stretch, stretch, stretch. Use your fingers to stretch your tongue out, be creative and stretch in different directions. Thats how I did it and now kechari feels like home and I can't imagine NOT doing it. I can now easily reach the inner nostrils which really helps in pranayama. Like anything in yoga it takes time and practice but also like anything in yoga you should get results with consistant stretching.
Nice teeth by the way. Wish mine looked so good

Edited by - Victor on Feb 26 2010 10:29:59 PM
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2010 :  12:55:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Victor


Nice teeth by the way. Wish mine looked so good



I floss everyday. Thats key to oral health.

If you floss everyday, you won't have to get ugly silver fillings.

Cutting out sugar and acids are also important.

Edited by - alwayson2 on Feb 27 2010 1:12:53 PM
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2010 :  1:14:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
So the way I am stretching out my tongue, is sticking it out as far as I possibly can, grabbing it with a piece of cloth, and then pulling on it like there is no tomorrow.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2010 :  2:06:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
that works. You can use fingers without cloth too. Not sure about pulling like there is no tomorrow. You might want to use that tongue tomorrow, but thats the idea. pull it in different directions. left, right, up down etc. explore it.
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shaktipath

Croatia
12 Posts

Posted - Mar 05 2010 :  11:40:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit shaktipath's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi !
You have enough length but the tongue is not used to be in a position to go upwards, hence stays in that position where looks short and fat .
Help yourself with 2 fingers to push it in a second stage. You can milk it inwards making the muscle used to be in different shape.
It is all matter of exercise so the tongue will not fall out , in the very beginning and later you will not need fingers to push it in anymore.
So tongue can be wide and small or sharp and tall and you need to master shape shifting.
Welcome to the subtle joys, where gentler you are more sensitivity you develop so being there gives more pleasure.(less gives more)
Nice cutting you have done !
shakty
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Mar 06 2010 :  2:21:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by shaktipath

Hi !
You have enough length...


Here is a length shot. Did not know how to pose the tongue LOL.

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_2571.jpg



P.S. I have been stretching the tongue out every day.
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  01:23:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
when you can touch your tongue to the tip of your nose you should be able to do kechari
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Mar 07 2010 :  11:06:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I definitely can't do that....yet
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2010 :  12:37:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I am still stretching like a maniac. Honestly, I have not seen much progress, but I am still hopefull.

Can you all let me know how long it takes?
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Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2010 :  2:40:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone is different. It took me a few weeks I guess but a comparative example might be how long does it take to learn Hanumanasana (the splits). A teenaged girl might take a few weeks to learn it, I am working on that pose and give myself a year of regular practice, and maybe some can never learn it. I have never met you, so have no idea how long it would take you.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2010 :  3:00:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Totally agree with Victor. Everyone has a different tongue and it will take a different amount of time for each individual. I started with trimming the frenulum, but I found that the combination of cutting (which I only had to do a few times) and stretching was way more effective then either practice on their own. Personally it took me about a year to get from stage 1 into stage 2, but once I was in stage 2 it only took a few months before I was able to get into stage 4. And I think that some people's soft palette is different from others. Personally I still can't get into stage 2 without finger help (even though once the tongue is "up there" I can go all the way to stage 4) and I think a lot of that has to do with 1. the shape of the tongue and 2. how far back in the mouth the soft palette goes to. I seem to have a soft palette that "goes on forever". I doubt that I will ever get to a point where I don't need the fingers in order to put the tongue in the higher stages of kechari.

Love!
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 01 2010 :  4:39:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My tongue seems to be a little longer...finally.

Still have a ways to go
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2010 :  2:11:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Interestingly, my frenum area has changed shape.
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2010 :  3:37:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Can now touch uvula without finger help.

Kechari attempts are getting closer to success. I am touching new "salty" tissue with each attempt.

With each attempt, I try to follow the advice on this forum.

A) Do a forward motion

B) Try entering from the side

C) Shape the tongue as a point

D) Use finger help


P.S. Of course I am still stretching like a maniac.

Edited by - alwayson2 on Apr 23 2010 3:42:11 PM
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2010 :  12:44:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I can now easily find the edge of the soft palate with finger help.

But I find a slit, NOT a hole!

That was surprising. Am I normal?
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2010 :  1:42:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Alwayson,

Yes, you are normal

You will (eventually, if not already) be able to push the tongue into the slit and pull the soft palate down and forward, opening up the passageway into the nasal pharynx.

Love!
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 28 2010 :  1:21:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My soft palate is not swinging down!

Maybe I don't have enough length.

I can definitely get some of the tongue into the slit though
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Apr 28 2010 :  1:29:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
With enough length you will be able to pull down and forward the soft palate. Keep stretching/snipping and it won't be long.

Love!
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 28 2010 :  4:01:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thats a good idea BUT I also wonder if the soft palate has to be loosened throught practice
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Apr 28 2010 :  4:05:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The soft palate will get looser as you continue pulling it down and forward over and over again. In order to loosen the soft palate you will need to have enough tongue length to do this.

Love!
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alwayson2

USA
546 Posts

Posted - Apr 29 2010 :  4:16:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson2's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I am in stage 2!

Or atleast I thought so, until I read that I was supposed to touch a nasal septum.

I am not touching anything, except having the soft palate cradling my tongue underneath.

I tried forward movement as much as possible.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Apr 29 2010 :  4:22:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome Alwayson! Very happy for you!

I believe touching the nasal septum is between stage 2 and stage 3. Stage 3 I believe is getting to the "bony protrusion" on the septum, and Stage 2 is just having the tongue up in the nasal pharynx with the soft palate pulled down.

With a little more length/stretching you will soon be able to touch the septum. For me, it took me several months (maybe even more then a year) to get from stage 1 to stage 2, but once getting into stage 2 it was only a matter of a couple of months before I was all the way into stage 4.

Love!
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