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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 10:00:15 AM
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Hi people,
I have been doing breath mediation for about 2 or 3 months...dont remember...
10 mtes twice a day.Rcently i added nadhi sodhana and no problem.
Some days ago i decided to icrease to 12 mtes my meditation and added 1 mtes of sbp at the same time.
It has been a bad decision cz yesterday overload started showing the jaws and had a very unconfortable evening.So i have not practiced yesterday evening and today.
Part 1- And here comes what i observe always that this happens.When i dont practice and after and OVERLOAD or a LONG PERIOD OF PRACTICE i begin to feel really pleasant feelings.Like energy releasing,soft heat,a big ahhh and relax.
In the long periods of daily self paced practices i never feel so good...theres always a LIGHT tension inside,like if meditation were working inside all the time.Its not so unconfortable or bad,but i dont get this relax whenm im involved in stable practice for months.
Only when i stop my practices i begin to feel a great releasal of energies and a loosening of my self.Inner silence begin to decrease slowly,and energy begin to run more fluently.Its really pleasant.
Some times i think ¿Why dont stop practices if i feel better when i stop them?or...¿Why i dont practice less despite of being ten mtes my time line?...
The question is....related with personal time line and pace ¿is it necesary to touch the maximun of practices time you can reach without excessive disconfort? or would be better to decrease a little your confortable practice due to obtain more plesant feeling along the day?
This post im writing has been growing inside all this last year with ayp,but i never wrote about it.
Now is time.
Its related to "less is more" principle.
Has anybodyy felt it? i mean,when you are in your pace along months,in the maximun of practices that you can tolerate withourt disconfort....theres always a tension inside..like..."im doing well,if i continue doing this practices in ten years my system will be much more purified...and i will have many great milestones along the way..etc".When im involved in daily practices for long periods of time,im always thinking about my future development.Always.
I think i was more in the present before starting practices...or not...dont remember..but i would like to be mo0re connected with the NOW.
So...would you decrease your meditation time under the maximun you can get looking for more confort and smooooooth process along my days?
Part two- And a question for yogani or people with experience in 3 mantra enhacenment (the last one also ) for sensitive folks:
With 10 mtes twice a day 3 mantra enhacenment i ended with overload.
With 10 mtes twice a day breath meditation not.
Taking in serious consideration what i have been talking and trying to explain in this post ("less is more" issue)...would you reduce to 8 mtes of breath meditation (more confort and less tensions,but clearly UNDER my own pace)?
And the BIG BIG Qeustion that motivated this post:
I think i could try to stick with 8 mtes 3 enhacenment mantra for a long period.wWould be a good idea to change my practice to mantra enhacenment (8 mtes) cz it works much more BETTER than using the breath (more depht and development)....?
What do you think... is better for a faster and deeper/inner silence development 8 mtes of 3 enhacenment mantra or 10 mtes breath meditation (respecting my own pace margins)?
Any suggestion would be wellcome.
Thanks.
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 26 2010 10:09:19 AM |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 10:27:22 AM
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Hi miguel,
I haven't been practicing long here, and I'm not over sensitive to meditation, and I haven't added any mantra enhancements yet. Maybe somebody with direct experience will chime in. But, I know what's recommended here for your situation. It would be to try the AYP meditation with less time, just as you mentioned toward the bottom of your post. And maybe even back off the mantra enhancements until you've stabilized your twice daily practice again.
It's not necessary to do 20 minutes in order to progress fastest. Everybody is different in what their comfortable meditation time is. The important thing is to use the time amount that makes it comfortable for you to practice twice daily, every day, over the long term - whether it is a few minutes only, or twenty minutes, just go and touch silence twice daily at whatever amount is comfortable. Then you can experiment with longer times once you have a stabilized practice at the lower times. In your case, it seems like less is definitely more. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 1:07:09 PM
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Hi Miguel,
What is your overall routine of practices when you include deep meditation? Do you practice mudras and bandhas? Do you practice self-inquiry outside of sitting practices? And how long has it been since the last mantra enhancement you made? Also, what was the last practice/ enhancement you added?
Sorry about all the questions.
Christi |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 1:56:32 PM
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quote:
Hi miguel,
I haven't been practicing long here, and I'm not over sensitive to meditation, and I haven't added any mantra enhancements yet. Maybe somebody with direct experience will chime in. But, I know what's recommended here for your situation. It would be to try the AYP meditation with less time, just as you mentioned toward the bottom of your post. And maybe even back off the mantra enhancements until you've stabilized your twice daily practice again.
It's not necessary to do 20 minutes in order to progress fastest. Everybody is different in what their comfortable meditation time is. The important thing is to use the time amount that makes it comfortable for you to practice twice daily, every day, over the long term - whether it is a few minutes only, or twenty minutes, just go and touch silence twice daily at whatever amount is comfortable. Then you can experiment with longer times once you have a stabilized practice at the lower times. In your case, it seems like less is definitely more.
Hi JDH,thanks for answering
3 mantra enhacenment is more managable for sensitive people than normal I AM mantra.Its a softer tool,but only in the situation of sensitive folks,like me.Thats what i would practice if i decide to go back to mantra mestitaion in any moment.
Persaonally i prefer usin the breath that normal IAM cz im only able to do 5 mtes of IAM mantra and over the long term i get really tired of it.I enjoy more doing 10 mtes with breath.Thats the reason in ayp now we have bretah meditation and 3 mantra enhacenment options.
This is my point of view on this.
On the other hand it seems to be impossible for me to increase times over the long term.Since i began with yoga my sensitivity has increased over the many months i have spent doing daily practices.
At this moment i feel luky cz i can do 10 mtes wioth breath and my sensitivity hasnt increased more in months.Thats good.
Thanks for helping hand.
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 2:07:12 PM
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Hi christi
quote:
What is your overall routine of practices when you include deep meditation?
6 cicles of nadhi sodhana and 10 mtes of breath meditation.Twice a day.With this amount i have had no problems.I has been doing breath meditation for 3 months and recently i added some nadi sodhanna.I have been stable for 2 weeks with nadi sodhanna.Its a very gentle and managable practice.
quote:
Do you practice mudras and bandhas?
No.
quote:
Do you practice self-inquiry outside of sitting practices?
Sometimes i use the work and sometimes i let the toughts go during daily acticities.Sometime i ask questions and let them go.
There are phases also,and dont know why two weeks ago any time i asked questions i got really good feelings of witnessing my self.After some days it decreased and i was not able to enter in those interesting states anymore.I think it was like an opening phase or simmilar.I have stopped to ask cz i felt i was going in to non relational self inquiry and disconfort.Now i ask sometimes.
quote:
And how long has it been since the last mantra enhancement you made?
Im not talking about adding mantra enhacenments.I go directly to thirth mantra enhacenment without previous pre-enhacenments.Its a method yogani has suggested for sensitive folks.Only for us,cz it acts more smoothly in us.For non sensitive people the method is to gradually take the different mantra enhacements (1,2,3...),but this is not the situation with sensitive people.
quote:
Also, what was the last practice/ enhancement you added?
The last practice i added was 2 mtes more of breath meditation and 1 mte of sbp.It has lead to overload,so now im spending a couple of days with no practices and the more secure option is to return tomorrow to nadi soddhana and breath meditation (6 cicles of n.s. and 10 mtes breath meditation,twice a day).
Thank you
ps-Questions and support are always wellcome here.
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 26 2010 2:11:49 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 7:25:02 PM
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Hi Miguel,
quote:
The question is....related with personal time line and pace ¿is it necesary to touch the maximun of practices time you can reach without excessive disconfort? or would be better to decrease a little your confortable practice due to obtain more plesant feeling along the day?
It sounds from what you say that you are constantly pushing things a bit with your practices, which is probably why you feel more relaxed and happier when you take a break from them for a while. In which case I would give the same advice as JDH, to cut back a bit, so that you can progress smoothly without the need to take breaks and recover.
Remember that self-inquiry is a spiritual practice too, so if you are engaging in that when you are already pushing the envelope, then that can tip the balance to the wrong side. I'm sure you knew that already...
With regard to the mantra you are talking about, "Sree I am Namah", this is a first mantra enhancement for people with exceptional sensitivity to mantras. It is a replacement for the standard first mantra enhancement which is "sree sree I am I am". But it does not replace the basic mantra for everyone (sensitive and non-sensitive) which is "I am".
So if you are wanting to go back to deep meditation practice but are finding that "Sree I am namah" results in overload, then I would stick with the basic "I am" mantra. The "sree" element in both the first mantra enhancements is a crown chakra activation mantra, which could be causing you problems. |
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innercall
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 9:55:34 PM
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Hi Miguel,
I really understand what you live as I recognise a lot of what you say in my own story. For my part in December, I had to stop any meditation for about 3 weeks. Now, I can only do a 5 minutes breathing meditation twice daily thought I have added grounding exercises before each sittings. All I did since I started AYP is cutting on the practice time but I do feel much better then when I started. So my experience up to now is that I feel much better since I reduced my meditation time and mostly since I accepted that I could not practice as much as my Bhakti would push me to. Accepting that I could not practise as much as I would have liked and trying to enjoy life fully between practices discarding thoughts for enlightment seems to be the way for me now to cope with it.
I wish you the best with this issue
Innercall
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 11:14:43 PM
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Hey folks, One of the best things to do for overload is to pause and do nothing for a few minutes after DM and just observe stillness with dispassion, then, lay prone in corpse pose for 5 mins and let the body and prana normalize. Also, if you are new to practice and only doing a few minutes twice per day, you should only be doing "I AM" mantra and not the enhancements. Enhancements are meant for later when the crown is stimulated.
Adamant |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 06:46:32 AM
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Christi,
(Remember that this overload has come (no serious overload) for recent adition of sbp and more dm time....
quote:
With regard to the mantra you are talking about, "Sree I am Namah", this is a first mantra enhancement for people with exceptional sensitivity to mantras. It is a replacement for the standard first mantra enhancement which is "sree sree I am I am".
No,the mantra that is sugested for sensitive guys is "shree om shree om i am i am namah namah":
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
This is a very useful lesson for sensitive people.
This mantra works much more slowly and gentle way than any other ayp mantra.Its the larger mantra we have here and allow you to go deep very very slowly over the long term.I used it for two weeks some time ago.Was able to stay with 10 mtes twice a day for 2 weeks.Finally it ended in overload (very managable) and had to stop.With 10 mtes twice a day using "I AM" i would have had a serious overload in only a few days.
My experience with this tirth enhacenment was extasi and bliss for almost 2 weeks like never before.Finally overload came,but slowly and in a further more managable way,and more margin of action by me.Im thinking to use it again but less time than before,cz maybe could work better than breath.
Innercall,
Sometimes really hard have this "handicap",when you see people using wonderful tools like samyama,kumbhakas...etc,
But the most inportant thing is inner silence,i know,and we can still cultivate it.
You seem to be more sensitive than me (5 mtes using the breath).Sometimes i think us sensitive people can support each other and share our experiences and process in yoga here in this forums.Like an public sensitive guys satsang ...
Adamant,
thanks for helping hand. I think i lay enough after meditation.10 mtes more or less.I try to be aware of my feelings and toughts and letting them go.
Thanks.
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 27 2010 07:02:49 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 3:20:13 PM
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Hi Miguel,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christi,
(Remember that this overload has come (no serious overload) for recent adition of sbp and more dm time....
Yes, as I say I would look at cutting back your sitting practice times, but also look at cutting back on mantra enhancements as these can be as much a cause of overload as longer sittings can be.
quote:
No,the mantra that is sugested for sensitive guys is "shree om shree om i am i am namah namah":
http://www.aypsite.org/367.html
This is a very useful lesson for sensitive people.
I think you may need to read that lesson again. It is not recommending the full AYP mantra (with 3 enhancements) as a standard baseline mantra for everyone who is sensitve to meditation. The baseline mantra stays the same even for sensitive people, and that is "I AM". That lesson offers an alternative approach to the process of mantra enhancements for people who are sensitive to the mantra.
If you are experiencing overload problems after working with a mantra enhancement, then you may find relief by cutting back to the last enhancement. If I was experiencing extreme sensitivity in the crown area, for example, and was experiencing overload symptoms due to that, then I would not use a mantra with SREE in it. In other words I would use the basic I AM mantra.
But as I say, I think you have got the wrong message from that lesson, and would do well to review it. If you are still not sure then I would check with Yogani.
Christi |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 4:20:42 PM
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Christi,
quote:
I think you may need to read that lesson again. It is not recommending the full AYP mantra (with 3 enhancements) as a standard baseline mantra for everyone who is sensitve to meditation. The baseline mantra stays the same even for sensitive people, and that is "I AM". That lesson offers an alternative approach to the process of mantra enhancements for people who are sensitive to the mantra.
Ok.
quote:
If you are experiencing overload problems after working with a mantra enhancement, then you may find relief by cutting back to the last enhancement.
I disagree here.If you cut back to the last mantra enhacenment you will be trascending faster than using the third enhacenment,and the inner obstructions being released will be more (unless you decide to reduce dm time also).So...more disconfort.The key point is that the longer is the mantra,the slower the trascending process will be during dm time.
If you cut back to last enhacenments,you will have to reduce the dm time also.The shorter the mantra is,the stronger the purification gets.(im talking only about sensitive people.For non sensitive people it doesnt happen in this way).
The shorter the mantra is,the shorter will be you dm time if you are sensitive.
Onether opition could be to reduce the time you spend with the mantra enhacenment wich you are having overload problems .
quote:
If I was experiencing extreme sensitivity in the crown area, for example, and was experiencing overload symptoms due to that, then I would not use a mantra with SREE in it. In other words I would use the basic I AM mantra.
Ok,i havent had this situation,but it seems very logic here.
You will be doing good returning to i am mantra,but the dm time will be less cz the trascending process will be more. Would be wise to consider brath meditation in this situation if returning to i am mantra suposses only a few minutes with i am (is really stressful to do this short routine when you are full of bhakti and 10 mtes with breath meditation for example can be more joyful)
Im talking from a general point of view here,and i know every situation is different.
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 27 2010 4:32:58 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 5:26:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Adamant,
thanks for helping hand. I think i lay enough after meditation.10 mtes more or less.I try to be aware of my feelings and toughts and letting them go.
Thanks.
Then it's time to reduce your practice times. Don't use a mantra and just follow your breath until your pranayama practice helps open up some nadis.
Adamant |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 7:18:50 PM
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| Thanks adamant,i think ill do it.But the pranyama i use is alternate nostril breathing,i hope it helps opening the nadis over long term. |
Edited by - miguel on Jan 27 2010 7:19:17 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 8:07:57 PM
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Miguel, You will do better with Spinal Bastrika Pranayama.
Adamant |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 9:23:55 PM
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Hi miguel,
my body got also very sensitive to every kind of practice, because I wanted it to be. I wanted to get fast response, tried out oeverything to the extreme and got what I want. After 2 years doing like that health problems started. Since then, I had to self pace, decrease mantra practices a lot and increase breath and pure awareness meditations more.
Something I wanted to share, as your observations match mine, but are not complete.
Have you ever noticed, that starting something requires more effort because there is more friction? And something that already moves, easily goes on moving without much more effort? Like driving a car. First gear, starting phase needs some more skill, everything is slow, then it gets a lot faster with the 2nd gear and after the third, the car drives like water, even if you do nothing, it goes on rolling. The same with every kind of object, doing, practice or whatever.
More directly said, what I observed in addition to you in that extreme overdoing-phase many years ago: I started with 1 hour of SBP and 1 hour of DM.
After the first sitting, I stood up and everything was pulsating alive, it felt like I could fly physically. Very dramatic. The next hours changed more and more into inner burning, unpleasant stomach feelings, and so on. But is that a problem? Why should it. So next days I even increased to 2 hours of DM and so on. You see, the exact opposite of what Yogani tells right from the start =)
Effects? More and more burning and at the same time, more and more silence, more and more extacy. So positive and negative effects dancing together. No problem, after some days, the negative effects diminished, friction was lessened and it became very smooth. The following 2-3 weeks were great beyond everything. All the stuff Yogani was talking about I could directly relate to: yes the man is right, after 1 hour of DM most of the thouhts are dissolved, the next hour I dove in such deep silence and bliss, that I could not imagine to be possible.
Then came the next phase, even deeper frictions of strong emotions, strong concepts of how to live, my life situation and so on. At that point, I knew that it goes like this, first the friction on the surface -->discomfort+extacy, then smoothness, after some more digging deeper, new levels of friction, then smoothness, then digging into more depths and so on.. ( ..neverending? :))
The third phase of friction was the WALL that put me out completely of practice, spirituality and so on. It was too substantially "attacking" everything about "me". At the same time, my health started getting worse.
After a good long pause I restarted with acceptance of the need of a self-pacing-concept for a more smooth ride. Ater 1 year of good and constant practice with normal timings and after some of those walls, another one threatened my health and life situation too much --> new stop, new start with different approaches like nadi sodhana etc. Long long story, still in the going.
The hint of this observation for you: some frictions that seem so frightening and dangerous dissolve very fast if the pressure is increased just a little bit more. Like cleaning the dishes. Some dried meal rests need a little bit more of pressure for a short time, then immense smoothness happens.
You tried out a lot of self pace and are down to some little minutes per day. I am sure the discomfort and friction you are talking about can be handled easier with more practice times and a longer amount of rest afterwards. Like 10 minutes nadi sodhana, 10 minutes sbp, 20 minutes DM the normal style IAM and 30-60 minutes rest. Or at least resting until all the released energies calm down and smooth out completely.
After 1-2 weeks, return to a normal stable timing like 10 minutes SBP + 15-20 minutes DM and "normal" resting 5-15 minutes.
You will have a short time of a little bit more discomfort for some days, but ater that, normal timings will be like butter and cheese. (You already observed the downfall to be very pleasurably, it is the same here).
The same principle like in everything. Start is hard, you advance = friction decreases --> start is like nothing. Just for consideration, hope it helps :) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 03:32:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Miguel, You will do better with Spinal Bastrika Pranayama.
Adamant
Hi Adamant,
I asume you mean "spinal breathing pranayama" here? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 03:47:31 AM
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Hi Miguel,
quote:
I disagree here.If you cut back to the last mantra enhacenment you will be trascending faster than using the third enhacenment,and the inner obstructions being released will be more (unless you decide to reduce dm time also).So...more disconfort.
It may well seem like that at first, yes. This is because it takes time to settle in with a new mantra enhancement. At first you will not be able to go so deep with it, and so there will be less purification taking place, and thus, less purification side-effects to deal with. But as you get settled in with the new mantra, say after a few weeks or months, the purification effect of the longer mantras will be more than the basic I AM mantra. Also, the mantra enhancements contain seed mantras which activate chakras higher up in the body.
This can have a powerful effect on kundalini, drawing it up through the body and producing overload symptoms if you are not yet ready for that.
I would stay with the breathing meditation and nadi shodhana as you are for now, but be looking for ways to move on to a stable DM +SBP practice over the long term. As I said above I would definately recommend that you begin with the I AM mantra when going back to DM. At the end of the day, of course, it is up to you.
I agree with the others who advise a longer rest time after meditation. 10-20 minutes.
Christi |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 10:33:23 AM
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Holy,thanks for sharing your experience.Altought is dramatic in some aspects i find it beautiful and inspiring.Thanks.
quote:
You tried out a lot of self pace and are down to some little minutes per day. I am sure the discomfort and friction you are talking about can be handled easier with more practice times and a longer amount of rest afterwards. Like 10 minutes nadi sodhana, 10 minutes sbp, 20 minutes DM the normal style IAM and 30-60 minutes rest. Or at least resting until all the released energies calm down and smooth out completely.
After 1-2 weeks, return to a normal stable timing like 10 minutes SBP + 15-20 minutes DM and "normal" resting 5-15 minutes.
You will have a short time of a little bit more discomfort for some days, but ater that, normal timings will be like butter and cheese. (You already observed the downfall to be very pleasurably, it is the same here).
The same principle like in everything. Start is hard, you advance = friction decreases --> start is like nothing. Just for consideration, hope it helps :)
What you are talking about sounds really dangerous here.If i would do 10 mtes sbp and 20 mtes i am mantra,overload over short term and long term would be extrem.
I cant discuss what you are explaining,cz im not an expert in the inner porcesses of my body,but in my experience less is more.
On the other hand i find it interesting and would like to know some expert opinions about what you are talking about,cz you seem to be sure about it and explain it with conviction.Im not going to put your advice on practice (very risky),but otherwise im open to consider it and read other people opinions.
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 10:46:10 AM
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quote:
But as you get settled in with the new mantra, say after a few weeks or months, the purification effect of the longer mantras will be more than the basic I AM mantra. Also, the mantra enhancements contain seed mantras which activate chakras higher up in the body.
So...if the effects are powerful than "i am" (longer mantras including powerful seeds mantras),why does yogani explains that they can work for some sensitive guys?I dont understand it.Why does yogani affer them as a better/interesting/managable alternative than "i am" mantra in case of sensitive people?
quote:
I would stay with the breathing meditation and nadi shodhana as you are for now, but be looking for ways to move on to a stable DM +SBP practice over the long term. As I said above I would definately recommend that you begin with the I AM mantra when going back to DM. At the end of the day, of course, it is up to you.
Over the long term...
Im not able to do more than 10 mtes using breath meditation.If im not able to do at least 15 or 15 mtes of breath meditation,how could i start thinking about finding ways to begin with "i am" mantra? Wich ways?
this is eternal.
I started yesterday with 8 mtes with thirth mantra enhacenment.I want to give it a chance.Yesterday night after doing it in the morning and evening i felt really excited,like being under an stimulant drug.I felt strange.But I was able to stay in my centre.
Today in the morning i didnt practiced,i felt ok.But in the afternoon suddenly i started crying and crying(in a smooth pleasant tender way) releasing some deep stored emotions.I havent been able to cry this for many years.So i decided to do my meditation for 8 minutes again (first of this day),and was a meditation with tears and releasing of deep inner obstructions.During resting time it happened also.
I want to stay with this mantra at least a cuple of days,cz mybe this change is bringing new openings here.And i wanna know if the excitenment i felt yesterday is due to clunky stage.
I think i agree with holy.Sometimes is better to push the gas a little for a better "jump".And a little gas with this longer mnatra at least for a few days can release some stored obstructions.Today it has happened. |
Edited by - miguel on Jan 28 2010 10:52:03 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 12:19:23 PM
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quote:
cz im not an expert in the inner porcesses of my body
Hi Miguel,
As Obi-Wan Kenobi said ,(something like, if not...well,you get the idea):-
The force is strong in you ( Read , Force = Inner Guru, ecstatic bliss etc)
Well then follow it :)
I think you know what to do. You are the only expert here Miguel in that respect.So in that respect any advice you receive is going to always be secondary, however well-meaning it is, to what is/seems true for you.
If a practice is working for you, stick with it.
If it is not dump it (or review)
In this context whatever anyone says here is a mere footnote to what your experience is suggesting you do.
There is no universal magic pill or simple prescription that works for everyone,although some doctors try prescribing it.
You must follow your own path in yoga.It's not called "path" for no reason. I'm not sure if there is any other way.How you navigate it is up tyou. That is how it should be, & is.
Ans don't let yourself be bullied by group-think. That can hinder progress as we each come from different places with different experiences( & obstructions) in life and so forth.
Find out the truth for yourself,Miguel.
Be guided by the force, Miguel.
The Force is strong in you.
(: Follow your heart.It usually knows what is best :)
And less is more;no need to permanently keep the pedal glued to the floor.
Ultimately it is the truth of your experience tht should be the final arbiter of reality or what works or seems to work for you.It may be trial and error in places but should get easier as you progress along.
Do you feel any better in daily life ?
Well that's good enough for me!
Also remember to self-pace-all part of a measured balanced approach.- if you're using those tools,approapporiate ones, that are working for you then less is indeed more.
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 1:28:47 PM
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Hi Miguel,
Feel free to email me if you want a more personal response. Feel stuck in practices. Practice advice. Whatever.
I can offer you largely my view based on my own experiences..What else can they be based on?
Although i think i've covered it here. Keep an open mind. Follow what works for you etc.
All the Best! |
Edited by - Akasha on Jan 28 2010 1:44:16 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 2:20:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Miguel, You will do better with Spinal Bastrika Pranayama.
Adamant
Hi Adamant,
I asume you mean "spinal breathing pranayama" here?
Yeah said it correctly in my head and wrote it wrong. Sorry.
Adamant |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 4:21:10 PM
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Today,the clunky stage using long mantra has been and is less than yerterday.Very clearly.
I think this clunky stage is normal,after all i have been doing breath meditation for 2-3 months and the change is important.
One thing i percieve in this clunky stage is that witness state arises in a bigger way using the mantra,in only 2 days.The affect has been inmediate.There is a clear difference between breath and this mantra related with cultivation o witness state.(breath meditation does it also and very well,but there are faster ways)
I dont know i will be able to keep this practice stable over the long term.But i know im in a good time-line with this mantra.
I feel the practice different than when i tried it some time ago.We are in a process of development and evolution and two months using the breath have brought very much possitive development and steady progress/self pacing.
Why dont give a chance to the mantra again?(less time of practice than before)
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 28 2010 4:22:46 PM |
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innercall
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 8:03:36 PM
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Hi Miguel,
I really appreciate the way you share your experience of trying to work your sensitivity issue. We should definitely support each other in this and I must say that by reading your posts you have already given me some support.
Maybe we should start a group called the Sensitives Anonymous.
Happy to see that you have some success with the long mantra
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2010 : 01:35:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I think you may need to read that lesson again. It is not recommending the full AYP mantra (with 3 enhancements) as a standard baseline mantra for everyone who is sensitve to meditation. The baseline mantra stays the same even for sensitive people, and that is "I AM". That lesson offers an alternative approach to the process of mantra enhancements for people who are sensitive to the mantra.
I must say I second Miguel in this question on how to interpret the lesson, which I have discussed here in forum, also with Yogani. I copy the text here and comment on it.
quote:
A possible way around this situation is to modify the mantra to facilitate "slower transcending." We cannot suddenly change the nature of the matrix of obstructions in the nervous system we are dealing with. But we can change the vehicle we are using to traverse it, going from the surface of the mind to its silent depths, and back again.
There has been some research done in the AYP community on the third enhancement to the I AM mantra, which is the longest mantra we have in the AYP system. The additional syllables reduce the speed with which awareness moves to more silent levels of the mind. In doing so, a longer mantra creates a wider sweep on the way in and also on the way out. It is less prone to "falling through the cracks" between the loosely packed inner obstructions and thoughts of an over-sensitive meditator.
While working to stabilize our meditation routine, it is suggested to discontinue spinal breathing pranayama and any other energy stimulating practices or activities we may be engaged in.
This was what was crucial for me. Quit the Spinal breathing. I suggest your attempt to put that back is what has caused the overload this time, Miguel!
quote:
For those over-sensitive meditators who would like to try slowing down the rate of transcendence, the third enhancement of the AYP mantra is suggested.
Thus, not those who are inclined and feel ready for a mantra enhancement, but all over-sensitive meditators who can't cope the standard I AM. So I AM is not the standard for over-sensitive people. The I AM causes the problem, therefore this lesson! If you are just "sensitive" as you suggest, Christi, then I AM works as long as we self-pace accordingly. But if we are OVER-sensitive, which is what we are discussing here - the I AM does not work well anylonger.
quote:
It is:
SHREE OM SHREE OM I AM I AM NAMAH NAMAH
This is not a recommendation for everyone to begin skipping through the mantra enhancements willy-nilly. The discussion here is focused on the very specific situation of over-sensitivity to deep meditation. Everyone else will do well to consider taking on the mantra enhancements in order, as instructed in the lessons.
Taking on a mantra enhancement slows down the inward and outward flow of awareness in the mind during the procedure of deep meditation. If we are premature in taking on a mantra enhancement, it can feel like we have hit a brick wall, with awareness staying much on the surface of the mind. This is normal, and if we are shifting the gear to a longer mantra at the right time for us, the awareness will go in more slowly through a wider swath of the mind and nervous system. And likewise coming out.
For the over-sensitive meditator, jumping to the third enhancement will have the immediate effect of slowing down transcending and can bring some relief on excessive purification symptoms. It may be possible to increase meditation time from the few self-paced minutes we may be doing to 10 minutes or more without immediate discomfort.
It is not as a part of a normal process of adding mantra enhancements. It's worth a try from whatever point of process you are in. If oversensitive and in overload, and normal cut back self-pacing does not work, and you are down to less than 10 min meditation it will be less effective cultivation of stillness, so alternatives must be found. The alternatives suggested in the lesson is:
- cut the mantra totally and stay with breath meditation
- skip I AM, which is too fast and aggressive, try jumping directly to the third enhancement, the longest mantra, which works more slowly.
- If you are at the right spot of development the mantra enhancement will work - if it's premature, you will hit a brick wall, and then it's not really clear, but I'd guess the alternative then is to go with breath meditation instead of the mantra enhancement. But it's worth a try.
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However, what we have found is that the benefits of using a longer mantra may be short-lived in some over-sensitive meditators. Once we become acclimated to the longer mantra in daily practice over weeks or months, and are going in with it more easily, some of the symptoms of excessive purification may begin to return.
This sounds like what you experienced, miguel! So:
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Then we are back to self-pacing our meditation time downward again, perhaps to a duration that is unsatisfactory for our level of bhakti. But the long mantra is worth a try for those who are inclined to stay with mantra meditation. No harm can come from it if we are engaged in prudent self-pacing. It can work for some as a long term meditation practice.
For me, I have not even tried the mantra enhancement model, since only breath meditation and alternate nostril breathing now works fine. I can hold 8-10 min meditation without discomfort, and noticably calmer days overall. |
Edited by - emc on Jan 29 2010 02:30:41 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2010 : 06:41:19 AM
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Innercall,
quote:
Hi Miguel,
I really appreciate the way you share your experience of trying to work your sensitivity issue. We should definitely support each other in this and I must say that by reading your posts you have already given me some support.
Maybe we should start a group called the Sensitives Anonymous.
Happy to see that you have some success with the long mantra
Yes,long mantra works for sensitive people.As i have said before,some time ago i tryed it for 2 weeks and felt much smooth ecstasi and bliss,like never before.That ended with bad symptoms,i was doing 10 mtes 2 per day and i was practicing sometimes a little amount of samyama.
Yhe overload that came for this mantra has nothing to do with overload produced by i am mantra alone."i am" mantra overload really strong here (nightmares,very very bad feelings,big disconfort...).
Now,down to only 8 mtes and no samyama.Only asanas 2 per week.
The mantra works in us.Non sensitive people will not feel anything using this mantra (non advanced practicioners with no enhacenments yet) cz it woks slower than i am mantra.Much more.But us we feel its effects.Talking form my experience and very sure of what im talking about.
This doesnt mean avery sensitive people can use this mantra instead of breath.How knows,maybe i will have to return to breath in the nearly future.
Im glad that this conversations here inspires us,and yes,we are here for supporting each other and discoverings new ways for dealing with our sensitive issues.
sensitive anonimous is a good idea
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Edited by - miguel on Jan 29 2010 06:43:47 AM |
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