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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 5:50:26 PM
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Hello all,
My question is how is one to let go of skepticism when it comes to doing the practices? I believe this is a big obstacle for me when it comes to DM being effective. The skepticism is mostly at a subconscious level but it is still there.
I have undertaken many practices over the years with varying results. I guess the biggest problem I have faced is that the techniques being handed down to me were valid but in the end I found that the teacher that was handing them down was in some way a fraud. That made it impossible for me to continue on with the practices because I would question the validity as to how they were being taught. This has many times made me almost give up on the path altogether.
I don’t know why one often places so much importance on the teacher? I guess it is human nature to look up to someone who perhaps can help lead us to our hearts desire, whatever that may be. I know when it comes down to it only you can do the work, but if there are those who have successfully navigated the path to enlightment, or to a fuller richer life, than their experience can be a tremendous help in leading you in the right direction.
So what happens when these so called enlightened teachers are found out in some way to be imperfect and to me therefore unenlightened, how are you to trust anything. This can be earth shattering.
My fear when it comes to doing the practices presented in AYP is that perhaps things could surface in the future that would make me question the whole thing and put me off the spiritual path altogether.
I know that Yogani is an anonymous teacher, but someone said all things that are hidden will be revealed. So my concern is that what if Yogani’s identity is found out and that he proves to be less than perfect in the end. I know it does not matter where you came from, it is where you are now. I am just afraid of being duped again. This is my fear and it is hard to completely let go of even if it is at a subconscious level. I know this is thwarting my efforts when it comes to the AYP practices being effective.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get over this stumbling block so I can move forward?
As a final note I must say that in my correspondence with Yogani, he has proven to be nothing but sincere, legitimate and very helpful. Thank you Yogani!
WSH
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 6:18:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WSH
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get over this stumbling block so I can move forward?
I have written about this here.
quote:
I found that I was getting really attached to him (Nithyananda), even though I was sure I could never be attached to a guru. But here I was, wishing I could be in his presence again, to be able to spend more time with him.
Then the strangest thing happened. Someone at the forum pointed out to a website that spoke against Nithyananda. It was so strange how the mind jumped in, and seemed so disappointed about how this amazing soul could actually be so harsh, in real life (based on the negative stories about him).
I went through almost a week of feeling disconnected with him. A part of my mind was disappointed with him, a part of my mind was trying to convince the other part that it was stupid to believe such stories, and that I should just let it go etc.
Then came one of the most beautiful openings I’ve ever experienced.
Nithyanada appeared, smiling … and showing me how I was actually attached to the form of Nithyananda … when in reality, the guru that was guiding me was the Nithyananda in me. The form does not matter. The body-mind will do what the body-mind will do; the real connection with a master, and the real master … is at a level much deeper than that.
A real master is guiding you from within. S/he is in you; S/he is you. The only thing that separates you from a master is you.
I fell in love with Nithyananda all over again, but it was no longer with his form. Now, it wasn’t his form that touched my heart; it was that infinite stillness he showed me, when our eyes met for a minute or two during darshan.
I’ve often wondered: how is it that when he touched me, I did not feel his thumb on my forehead? Or how, when he hugged me, I did not feel his hands around me, or smell him, or feel the fabric of his robe on my cheek? It's because he was not there. When he gave me darshan, his physical form was right there, but that is not what I experienced; I experienced the eternal bliss, the Nithya-ananda (eternal bliss) that he is to me.
This poem came to me right after the experience:
Fall in love with...
Fall in love with the gift being given to you
Not the box it comes in.
Fall in love with the silence
Not the practices that bring you silence.
Fall in love with the truth being revealed to you
Not the guru or system that is delivering the truth.
We miss so much by focusing on the form that delivers the truth to us.
The ego will analyze, judge, defend, a guru or a system.
That is what the ego loves to do.. engage itself in something.
But when we let go the judgment, the analyzing, the defending...
We let the actual teachings in.
These teachings are real subtle and beyond the mind.
Hence the mind does not get it.
Be....
....silent......
Let go the attachment to the gift box
And start enjoying the gift.
The truths being sent to us
The blessings being poured into our lives.
Fall in love with....
The guru in you...
The silence.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......
Take the best you get from anything that comes your way and move on. Nothing is ever sent your way in vain. There had to be something positive that came from every encounter you've had with the masters. Take that and leave the rest behind.
Fall in love with the gift and not the box it came in. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 7:58:52 PM
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Hi WSH,
"Why should I keep exercising if my muscles are weak?"
What if Albert Einstein was shown to be less-than-perfect? Would that invalidate the theory of relativity?
The very attitude/doubt you're expressing ..... is exactly what meditation and yoga practice cures .... exactly as physical exercise strengthens muscle.
Your ego-mind is just trying to protect you.
Something it is utterly incapable of doing (<-- true for any ego-mind, not just "yours").
Just keep meditating.
Meditation has been taught, replicated and validated all over the world, for thousands of years ... with the vast majority of teachers and gurus being very sincere people, who only want to help.
I've hung around here for a few years now.
I've gotten more benefit from AYP than I knew that anyone could get.
From anything.
Anywhere.
EVER.
You can lean in the direction of skepticism ...
...... or you can lean in the direction of faith.
I recommend faith.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen."
~Hebrews 11:11
Faith is literally the substance of things hoped for; it is the material from which they are made.
Just as skepticism is the material from which confirmation of skepticism is made.
In reality, there is nothing to fear.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 9:13:23 PM
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| You will be happy to know that no aspect of the AYP program was invented by Yogani, so therefor it doesn't matter who Yogani is or what he does in the world. Spiritual techniques and teachings are not made, or invented. They are revealed. They are inherent potentials contained within our very being. The teachers are irrelevant. The teachings serve as their own proof. |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Jan 16 2010 9:23:42 PM |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 10:28:25 AM
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| I think I was a little too harsh in my wording in saying that the teachers are irrelevant. They are certainly very important and the world is lucky to have them. I simply meant that the teachers will come and go, while Truth remains unchanged. This is why effective spiritual techniques work, regardless if they are "discovered" by a sinner, or a saint. If the teaching is rooted in truth, it will become it's own proof.. if the student is sincere. Honestly, even if the student isn't very sincere but continues to practice anyway, I think he will eventually become sincere. :) |
Edited by - Clear White Light on Jan 17 2010 10:29:50 AM |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 2:32:16 PM
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Hello all,
Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement. I guess my use of the word perfect was too strong. It is easy to have doubts and yes yoga and meditation are self validating, that is why I was drawn to this path.
Shanti, that is a beautiful poem. The line "Fall in love with the gift being given to you Not the box it comes in" says it all.
CLear White Light, You were not being harsh with your choice of words. I understood what you meant. I believe this as well. Teachers can impart the gift of knowledge but it is up to you what you do with it. After all as Yogani says, " The guru is in you!"
Thanks again and best of wishes to all.
WSH
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 4:03:31 PM
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WSH,
it appears to me that your need for your teacher to be perfect is your first obstacle. Teachers are human beings, human beings are imperfect. End of story.
Being imperfect, can they have much to teach you? that is the real question. In my experience over the past 5 years or so I have found that in daily practice of AYP as Yogani has shared it and built on my previous yoga experience that this system of meditation practices provided the missing pieces that I was not getting from other teachings and so very deeply improved my practice as well as the understanding of my practice. That said, lets see what Yogani has asked of me.
Oh yes, NOTHING.
Pretty nice guy in my opinion, but honestly I don't see whether the teacher is nice or not having much bearing on the potency of the practice. Can they deliver the goods? In my experience the answer here is YES. |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 9:18:58 PM
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Thanks Victor,
I guess perfect was too strong of a word. The obstacle for me has been when the teacher is portrayed as infallible and then is found not be and sometimes in dramatic or disturbing ways. You are absolutely right as long as we are human, so called enlightened or not we are still subject to error. The important thing is as how the practices work for us in our lives. That is the true test. The rest is just my ego getting in the way as Kirtanman pointed out. Again thanks to all and best of wishes.
WSH
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 10:20:03 PM
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"My question is how is one to let go of skepticism when it comes to doing the practices? I believe this is a big obstacle for me when it comes to DM being effective."
accept that the skepticism is there and if you decide to do to do it, then just do it. In time the skepticism may melt away
"So what happens when these so called enlightened teachers are found out in some way to be imperfect and to me therefore unenlightened, how are you to trust anything. This can be earth shattering."
I would imagine that some of the best, most kind hearted cops run a red light every now and then, just cause they can
good luck brother, I can appreciate your inquiry
Neil |
Edited by - brother neil on Jan 18 2010 6:33:00 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 03:20:04 AM
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| One more note. Yogani never makes any claims to him or his teachings being infallible. He is a man who has dedicatedly learned, practiced, and coordinated yoga practices and presents them honestly in a clear experiencial way without asking anyone to treat him as a Guru or superior enlightened being. He seems to primarily be interested in sharing these powerful practices to all those who seek them and his reward is to practice with dedication and to enjoy the benefits. There is no pedestal, so no point of worrying about him falling. |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 1:54:56 PM
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Thanks Neil and Victor,
Your points are will taken. My journey continues.
WSH
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 6:37:51 PM
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WSH, your welcome,
I did not reread my post when submitting it, so I just edited it to say more of what I meant
brother Neil
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 10:18:09 PM
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Thanks again brother Neil,
I am well on my way with the AYP practices. I have been doing DM for while now and plan to add on other practices when I feel ready. I was just afraid of being let down again. I know I need to let that go, because the proof is in the practices and not how they came to be or who is the one presenting them.
If they work ,they work and that should be enough. It is just my ego getting in the way sometimes. It creeps in occasionally when I am doing DM saying, what if what your doing is not real or valid? But the fact is I know it is valid. The technique has been around a long time and it works. I am sure the same can be said for the other practices in the AYP system as well. I am truly greatful for what Yogani has done here with this site, it is a gift to the world and to me!
Take care brother Neil.
WSH
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 10:30:18 PM
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cool man,
my best to you on your path
one in the same
brother Neil
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 10:43:52 PM
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Why should you give up skepticism? It is the power of your human mind to inquire into the heart of a matter. Inquire deeply as you experiment with these practices. Test them stringently, but with the open mind of an inquisitive scientist.
Adamant |
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WSH
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2010 : 09:08:16 AM
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Absolutely true Adamant,
Well said. It is my scientific nature to do that very thing. Thanks.
WSH |
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Skepticism as hindrance in DM
