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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 3:17:56 PM
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The other night when i was in bed i woke up with a jerk suddenly as is my wont these days (obviously a combination of medication, pot, alcohol and general anxiety - i know about the silliness of such a state but i am working on it) and i noticed my hand was forming a mudra. My right hand. My index finger was pointing upwards and the other fingers were closed.
When i was 18 or 19 (i'm going to be 30 in January) just after my mental stability vanished i used to dance alone to music. On one particular occasion i seemed to be in a trance or something because i have no recollection of what preceeded and what came after the only thing i remember about that time and this incident - i was holding up my arm performing the same mudra.
So i wanted to know what that mudra signifies. Any ideas anyone?
I remember looking through an encyclopedia book and seeing a very old painting of Jesus displaying this same mudra.
The only other mudras i seem to have automatically done was the index finger touching the thumb while in meditation.
Something i find strange is that a while ago when i was reading a lot about physiology and yoga i decided to contrict my glottis when meditating, and my tongue started to go back by itself. After this there were times when the tongue went back with and without constricting the glottis all by itself, except this only happened sometimes and not every time i meditated. I can't explain why. All i can say is that the times it seemed to happen i felt devotional. It happened once when i did I AM meditation but most of the time it happened when i did Hong Sau, which i had been practising for a few years earlier.
It would be easy for me to be sceptical about these things and put them down to physiological reactions but a part of me "knows" that cannot simply be the case. How many people in the world wake up in the middle of the night and find their fingers performing mudras?
Truly, i am at such a confused and despairing place in my life at the moment. There are things i want to know about life, about God, about intuition. I want to understand why things happen the way they do. I would describe myself as purely agnostic with a tendency to lean towards non-belief and belief depending upon what i think on any given day. Why does pain and suffering exist? Where is the justice in life when people starve to death every single day? Can we really say we know the answer to this? I have never heard any satisfatory answer, ever.
People speak about bliss, about thought-free states, pure consciousness, miracles, etc. Why do bad things happen to good people? What possible lesson are people supposed to learn? How can we say that God is benevolent in these circumstances? I just feel like if there is a God and if there is anything that can be known about such a being, i don't like It/Him/Her. I just don't like Him. If i was filled with intoxicating bliss i would muster all my strength to ask these same questions because i cannot see ANY justice to this at all. I am absolutely disgusted at the state of things. Why does this world have to be set up in such a way that it seems there is no way of definitely knowing anything? Why do i have to be filled with fear of my mortality? Why do i have to experience constant pain? I am not on any other "side" of the divide - nobody even knows if there is such a thing! Nobody ACTUALLY knows. People make out as if they do know but they don't. Nobody can pull the wool over my eyes on this count. I am sick of being alive and don't want to die. Every important question that has been asked about the biggest issues in life is completely mysterious. I am not content to remain in perpetual doubt and i don't believe anybody that says they know the answers to these questions.
What is love? It is a feeling. Love doesn't cast out fear. You need to train your thinking processes to alter your emotional reactions or feelings. God is love? What complete NONSENSE. In this world every living thing reproduces due to instinctual reactions that, quite frankly, are lust based. Do you call that love? I don't. Don't give me the "God is love" BS. Tell a starving malnourished child that God is love. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 4:09:30 PM
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Hi Gumpi...
I don't know what that particular mudra means but I often found that the index finger on my right hand wants to "point" as you are describing while I am kechari mudra. Don't know if it means anything at all....but hopefully knowing that there are others that experience similar things will set your mind at ease a little.
Love,
Carson |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 5:25:56 PM
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Hi Carson,
thank you. It does set the mind at ease somewhat. It's hard to see the silver lining when the bracelet is covered in mud. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 6:08:30 PM
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It's funny that the famous mudra for "rock on" used at heavy metal concerts is also the same one conspiracy theorists claim is the sign of the illuminati, and they have all kinds of pictures of famous politicians flashing that sign!
The despair and confusion about the way things are in the world is a form of self-hypnosis that you have chosen. Part of your mind assumes that there is some kind of order to the world that you can figure out, and another conflicting part of your mind wants to prove there isn't. This conflict is a waste of time because it can never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction, especially by logic.
But you have chosen to get involved with this conflict as if there could be an end to it, and you won't be happy until it is "solved", which is impossible.
So instead of getting intimately connected with insolvable problems, it is better to either
1) meditate in order to rise above these conundrums, and/or
2) get out in the real world and work to help people that seem to be so down trodden by their fate. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 6:16:04 PM
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well Gumpi I can relate
I wanted to know thigns that you speak about, similar questions, similar feelings, however did I really care to know all of this or did I only think I wanted to know. When you say "i want answers", does your toe want the answers, does your food want the answers, how about your finger, does your finger want the answers? How about when you sleep, are you still wanting answers? is there ever a time when you are relaxed and dont think about wanting the answers?
the point is labels. We concern ourselves with labels that may be true sometimes however we look at it from a limited perspective and this brings attachment. if we say, "I dont want to live" that is an absolute statement and then it manifests itself more in your life. a truer statement would be more like "sometimes I think I dont want to live" meanwhile your toe, hand, hair, the air, water, etc... which are all a part of you, is not having these questions.
So...... what is the totality of Gumpi? What is the totality of your thoughts, are they the totality of you?
Personally the book, "I am that" by gangaji has been of assistance to me lately as well as stillness speaks. also, as I have let go of thinking so much, I relax into the deep meditation practice easier without so much mind chatter, and even when the mind chatter is there I go back to the mantra. however it is not about what works for me, this is about you. i have chosen to share with you because I can relate, but again, who am I
you could always try the solar enhancement or whatever else calls to you brother, in whatever practice you choose my only advice is to simply do it and let go.
as far as automatic yoga, a couple of weeks ago I awoke with one of my lower chakras vibrating, instead of asking what or why, I just went back to sleep. scenery
later brother
My best to you
Brother Neil
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 7:18:54 PM
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Hi gumpi,
I can relate to the confusion and despair you're going through. Your words could've been written by me several years ago, right down to the anxiety/pot/meds reference. My only hope is that you're not in deep depression like I was at that time. It's a long, rough road out of that place.
In response to your last 3 paragraphs of questions, I say welcome to the human race, gumpi
Those are ancient questions. I'm sure most, if not all of us have asked them at some point. And collectively, as a people, we haven't found satisfactory answers. Is it possible we will ever answer them?
Can you let go of the need to know? Life is a mystery. It works the way it does, whether anyone understands it or not. Can you be with that?
BTW, I'm not advocating ignorance. By all means, seek the truth. Perhaps taking a lighter approach to knowing will bring more peace.
I hope the confusion passes.
Love
cosmic |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 7:22:56 PM
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| Interesting Neil; I ALWAYS wake up vibrating! different places, until my mind engages, then it stops. |
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NSB
Australia
32 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 8:17:02 PM
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| I have always thought that hand position meant to convey "blessing". |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 10:06:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Interesting Neil; I ALWAYS wake up vibrating! different places, until my mind engages, then it stops.
well to take that further we are always vibrating  |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2009 : 12:47:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
i woke up with a jerk suddenly
Sounds like an erection. Were you having a spiritual dream... huh? (naughty boy)
Well... its the same energy that moves into your penis when you have a sexual dream. So you can name this mudra whatever you like. haha
Love is God.... and you are God. (you means the "real you", not the gumpi)
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=6598#59206
"And whenever His hand comes close to you, you become frightened. And I understand, the fear is natural. What is the fear? The fear is: if God is, then you cannot be."
Let go gumpi. You are dreaming and your hand is trying to wake you up. Don't you understand? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2009 : 02:30:13 AM
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I bought a book on mudras, since I produce many of the myself... In "Mudras, Yoga in your hands" by Gertrud Hirschi it says:
The index finger up and the rest closed is Suchi mudra if pointed upwards.
It's good against constipation - intestinal cleansing. Unwellness, spite, impatience, violent temper, wanting to cling to everything - the cause for all these unpleasant feelings is often full, ant therefore stressed, intestines.
If index finger out, and the thumbs touching the other fingertips and palm facing upwards instead and index finger straight forward it's Vajra mudra:
Has to do with weakened circulation or low blood pressure, a weakening of Earth element, associated with the energy of stomach, spleen, and pancreas or a weak heart. A lack of drive, listlessness, and dizziness are the consequences.
Vajra mudra stimulates circulation. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2009 : 09:37:59 AM
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| That's interesting emc, since i had been ill for a few days with a bug that gave me diorhhea and vomiting. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2009 : 4:51:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
The other night when i was in bed i woke up with a jerk suddenly as is my wont these days (obviously a combination of medication, pot, alcohol and general anxiety - i know about the silliness of such a state but i am working on it) and i noticed my hand was forming a mudra. My right hand. My index finger was pointing upwards and the other fingers were closed.
When i was 18 or 19 (i'm going to be 30 in January) just after my mental stability vanished i used to dance alone to music. On one particular occasion i seemed to be in a trance or something because i have no recollection of what preceeded and what came after the only thing i remember about that time and this incident - i was holding up my arm performing the same mudra.
So i wanted to know what that mudra signifies. Any ideas anyone?
I remember looking through an encyclopedia book and seeing a very old painting of Jesus displaying this same mudra.
The only other mudras i seem to have automatically done was the index finger touching the thumb while in meditation.
Something i find strange is that a while ago when i was reading a lot about physiology and yoga i decided to contrict my glottis when meditating, and my tongue started to go back by itself. After this there were times when the tongue went back with and without constricting the glottis all by itself, except this only happened sometimes and not every time i meditated. I can't explain why. All i can say is that the times it seemed to happen i felt devotional. It happened once when i did I AM meditation but most of the time it happened when i did Hong Sau, which i had been practising for a few years earlier.
It would be easy for me to be sceptical about these things and put them down to physiological reactions but a part of me "knows" that cannot simply be the case. How many people in the world wake up in the middle of the night and find their fingers performing mudras?
Truly, i am at such a confused and despairing place in my life at the moment. There are things i want to know about life, about God, about intuition. I want to understand why things happen the way they do. I would describe myself as purely agnostic with a tendency to lean towards non-belief and belief depending upon what i think on any given day. Why does pain and suffering exist? Where is the justice in life when people starve to death every single day? Can we really say we know the answer to this? I have never heard any satisfatory answer, ever.
People speak about bliss, about thought-free states, pure consciousness, miracles, etc. Why do bad things happen to good people? What possible lesson are people supposed to learn? How can we say that God is benevolent in these circumstances? I just feel like if there is a God and if there is anything that can be known about such a being, i don't like It/Him/Her. I just don't like Him. If i was filled with intoxicating bliss i would muster all my strength to ask these same questions because i cannot see ANY justice to this at all. I am absolutely disgusted at the state of things. Why does this world have to be set up in such a way that it seems there is no way of definitely knowing anything? Why do i have to be filled with fear of my mortality? Why do i have to experience constant pain? I am not on any other "side" of the divide - nobody even knows if there is such a thing! Nobody ACTUALLY knows. People make out as if they do know but they don't. Nobody can pull the wool over my eyes on this count. I am sick of being alive and don't want to die. Every important question that has been asked about the biggest issues in life is completely mysterious. I am not content to remain in perpetual doubt and i don't believe anybody that says they know the answers to these questions.
What is love? It is a feeling. Love doesn't cast out fear. You need to train your thinking processes to alter your emotional reactions or feelings. God is love? What complete NONSENSE. In this world every living thing reproduces due to instinctual reactions that, quite frankly, are lust based. Do you call that love? I don't. Don't give me the "God is love" BS. Tell a starving malnourished child that God is love.
Dear Gumpi
The negative (apophatic) way of knowing less and less until you feel you know nothing and reach the point of giving up hope of knowing or being anything can be the fastest way to know God/your real self. Many saints have taken this way. 'Lead kindly light amidst the encircling gloom' as John Henry Newman wrote.
Read the Wayne Wirs thread about giving up, if you haven't already.
You will find what you seek if you really want to and do your best until you can do no more.
chinna |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 01:32:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
...i used to dance alone to music ...holding up my arm performing the same mudra.
Do you remember having some stomach problems at that time too?
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I remember looking through an encyclopedia book and seeing a very old painting of Jesus displaying this same mudra.
Does it mean Jesus was also having some stomach problem? And people thought it meant "blessing" like NSB has said.
No, its not just a mudra to fix stomach problems. Your inner self is trying to wake you up. But you are not allowing it.
If you allow, it will shake you up like a dog shakes itself after getting wet. It will shake off all the dirt off you.
Let your hands, your whole body perform the mudras as they like.
WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP!
Where is my stick? 
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2009 : 09:51:36 AM
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And how do you wake up? By learning to discipline yourself, and make a consistent effort at something. You pick what that will be - discipline is the most important lesson.
The good news is you can pick a discipline that will benefit you greatly. |
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ImseVimse
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2009 : 8:08:21 PM
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Poor Gumpi. What if we say God is tough love?
I imagine God/Buddha/The Force is like the loving parent who stands aside and lets a five year child fall off a bike and skin his knees. It may seem scary to the five year old, but it benefits him in ways he can't yet see. He won't learn to ride on his own if someone is always holding the handlebars for him.
You can call that philosophy or pablum or whatever you like, but in the end what do we know? On a cosmic level, all the impossibly sh*tty things that are so scary to us on earth may only be stumbling blocks. Is humanity learning from its mistakes? Definitely.
Depending on your point of view, this will be either a very bleak or a very hopeful statement, but this is probably the best it's ever been. Really. Terrible things happen in the world, and there are terrible, flawed people, but we have made progress. We live in an age of information and interconnectedness. Because of this, there is more incentive to cooperate, more visibility and more accountability.
Bad things happen to good people. But then, good people are exposing bad people, distributing food and money around the world, working to educate each other, and reaching out in ways that were impossible a generation ago. All around us people are changing each other's lives for the better.
We can never know what order or reason lies beneath the bad things that happen to the good and innocent. Lessons to be learned? Karmic debts to be paid? Perhaps some of them are wise old souls who agree to come here and suffer for some greater good.
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2009 : 9:19:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ImseVimse
Poor Gumpi. What if we say God is tough love?
I imagine God/Buddha/The Force is like the loving parent who stands aside and lets a five year child fall off a bike and skin his knees. It may seem scary to the five year old, but it benefits him in ways he can't yet see. He won't learn to ride on his own if someone is always holding the handlebars for him.
You can call that philosophy or pablum or whatever you like, but in the end what do we know? On a cosmic level, all the impossibly sh*tty things that are so scary to us on earth may only be stumbling blocks. Is humanity learning from its mistakes? Definitely.
Depending on your point of view, this will be either a very bleak or a very hopeful statement, but this is probably the best it's ever been. Really. Terrible things happen in the world, and there are terrible, flawed people, but we have made progress. We live in an age of information and interconnectedness. Because of this, there is more incentive to cooperate, more visibility and more accountability.
Bad things happen to good people. But then, good people are exposing bad people, distributing food and money around the world, working to educate each other, and reaching out in ways that were impossible a generation ago. All around us people are changing each other's lives for the better.
We can never know what order or reason lies beneath the bad things that happen to the good and innocent. Lessons to be learned? Karmic debts to be paid? Perhaps some of them are wise old souls who agree to come here and suffer for some greater good.
Really nice post IV! |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2010 : 7:46:32 PM
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 Hello gumpi,once i read that even if god decides to visit this planet, he will have to live his karma.it is really hard to stand but,  it might be worthy to accept reality  and surrender to god.and we can allways meditate on  SHIVOHAM  SHIVOHAM [:0SHIVOHAM here is a good link for hand mudras. health.indianetzone.com please dont breack your fingers. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 5:17:52 PM
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What people don't understand about karma is that our ego is what makes bad karma seem bad.
In other words, we resist the idea of having to live through our own bad karma.
There are two ways to solve that.
One, get rid of karma, which is what we are resisting because it is uncomfortable.
Two, change yourself so you don't feel uncomfortable. Meditation automatically does this a little at a time.
When Jesus said if someone slaps you, turn the other cheek, modern people think it is a lesson in non-violence and being weak and submissive.
But instead what if you were so strong and self-realized that the slap meant nothing at all? What if you couldn't be offended by such a thing, and the pain was minimal? You would feel more like laughing than being offended.
So as we become more tuned in to our real selves rather than our ego, I think the pain of karma becomes minimal. We just observe "bad" things happening to us, and kinda shrug our shoulders and not care. So at that point we really couldn't care less about the pain of bad karma. At least that is what I have experienced, has anyone else? |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 10:05:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
So as we become more tuned in to our real selves rather than our ego, I think the pain of karma becomes minimal. We just observe "bad" things happening to us, and kinda shrug our shoulders and not care. So at that point we really couldn't care less about the pain of bad karma. At least that is what I have experienced, has anyone else?
Yes, to a certain degree.
I noticed this with fear the other day. I was driving and thought this truck was going to hit me head-on, but it swerved out of the way. Fear came up, but it was... softer and lighter than usual. It didn't penetrate very deeply. I shook it off within seconds and then felt like nothing had happened.
I agree with everything else you said, Ether. Your words seem to always resonate with me in recent months.
Cheers |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 06:18:01 AM
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| hello changin karma is a very difficult an hard task, despite of whatever good idea and motivation someone could have,changing karma unless is an astral period,it would take arduous sadhana and much patience,even though ,sometimes cant be achieved,all of us in this world of maya and duality we are attached to karma.however,the constant meditation on im not this body its of high value.moksha mantras are prescribed as good method to overcome the drama of life and the hardships of bad karma chidananda rupa shivoham shivoham shivoham (im pure bliss im eternal blissful consciousness im shiva im shiva)namaste. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 07:11:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
When Jesus said if someone slaps you, turn the other cheek, modern people think it is a lesson in non-violence and being weak and submissive.
May be Jesus was misunderstood or misquoted here.
May be he didn't say to turn the other cheek, but said to turn away.
Turning the other cheek means to be hit again (and again...)
Turning away means to walk away from the attack, thus not returning
the attack (an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth), but ignoring and
not being influenced by the attack.
just my 2 cents |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 10:31:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
hello changin karma is a very difficult an hard task, despite of whatever good idea and motivation someone could have,changing karma unless is an astral period,it would take arduous sadhana and much patience,even though ,sometimes cant be achieved . . . .
Yes, you can't change your bad karma, but you can change yourself. Meditation does that.
But if you don't create any more bad karma, the bad stuff gets checked off your karma list one by one.
And not only do you become increasingly immune to the pain of bad karma, I sometimes experience joy as it happens. The results of "bad" stuff happening to me sometimes benefit mankind in visible ways. It's mind boggling. |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 11:43:48 AM
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| hello etherfish,of course its possible to feel joy during bad karma,most of people have more o less moments of joy, even during bad karma otherwise life would be impossible,and many saints enjoyed the grace of god ,laughing, when they were under extreme hardships.i didnt mention anything like that,what i mentioned if you reread ,is that bad karma its very difficult,to reverse,although its possible,and i mentioned they great help of the moksha mantras to achieve happiness in the middle of grief crisis ,constant japa of the great mahamrityunjaya mantra is said to be one of the very few mantras that have the power to change karma and destiny.for most of humans is quite difficult to separate the feeling of suffering from reality,because we are immersed on duality during our practical existence therefore the most practical way to overcome grief is mantra japa recitation,to try to meditate during a crisis of grief, would be allmost impossible and you can become schizophrenic,believe me it will only harm you.but the hypnotic effect of mantra recitation and its progresful shakti arising while reciting it will unconciously awake you to a better emotional state of mind,without hard self reality confrontations.thats the power of mantra japa,and i will even go further about this telling you that in each mantra is concentrated incredible shakti and the vivrations that produces the recitation of a mantra not only work in the inner plane but magicaly in the outer plane modifiying the negative energies of the environment into positive energy,thats the miraculous and magical power of mantra japa. |
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hand mudras
