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love
USA
34 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 1:20:01 PM
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Thank you Meg. I have my own reasons why I need and want to understand this question, forgive me for going on and on on this subject.
That pouring of love from Mother Teresa and the Tibetan monks must be coming from somewhere, something or nothing (i.e., the void from whence all realities come; thus meditation works. What do you think?
This is not just my subject, it is sorta everything. Everybody’s ideas and realities are important.
On a different subject: Thank you all for the hint on aryuveda, I changed my diet to raw food and my heat has lessened, and I did not have to change my practice.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 1:25:33 PM
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quote:
My take is that someone like Mother Teresa is a 'clean vessel', meaning that she was sufficiently pure enough that love - the energy - could move through her to others in a great outpouring of energy. Which from what Yogani has written, I take to be something that we can expect ourselves as we purify. I'm just guessing here, but it would seem that at some point on the road to enlightenment, we effortlessly tap into that energy, or it comes and finds us, and then we can expect an outpouring ourselves.
Yeah, but it's not something we develop. It's what we already are, but we shovel tons and tons of dirt over ourselves, wrap ourselves in burlap, and hermetically seal and armor every loving impulse. Practices clear things enough to afford us a glimpse of this absurd reality, and eventually undo what we've done. It's not that we're turned into divine beings of love, it's that we just stop struggling against it.
Also, I've read some things about Mother Teresa that don't sound real loving...more intolerant and dogmatic. But that's always the way with saints, who face a vicious circle. Holiness creates a strong morality to do good, and strong morality means strong polarity... and polarity takes you out of the holy flow. If you get a chance, see the show "Doubt" on Broadway, which is, on a superficial level, about Catholic sex scandal, but is truly about this spiritual point. And it's superb.
quote:
I once read about some Tibetan monks, who were asked how they were able to withstand the horrendous treatment by the Chinese during their captivity. One of them said that he just kept loving the soldiers who tortured them. He couldn't help it, he said; the love just kept coming to him and through him, and he was helpless to do anything but love his 'enemy'.
That's beautiful. Jesus Christ said it, and billions claim to believe it. Sigh. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 31 2005 1:29:31 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 1:28:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by love
That pouring of love from Mother Teresa and the Tibetan monks must be coming from somewhere, something or nothing (i.e., the void from whence all realities come; thus meditation works. What do you think?
This thread (especially further down) at least partially addresses that:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=636 |
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 1:55:42 PM
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"Yeah, but it's not something we develop. It's what we already are"
The above quote from Jim is saying we are love, but it is covered up with carma and we in AYP and others are doing daily practice to uncover that love which we are. This is what I have been thinking but wanted some confirmation from others. Thank you all.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 2:21:21 PM
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| The real mind trip thing is that even the karma is love. The dirt is love. And the ignorance. The whole bloody everything. May as well just let go. More. Even more. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 31 2005 2:24:44 PM |
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 2:35:02 PM
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| I agree. Everything is love even Hitler is love. Let go and don’t attached anything to it, cause it just is. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 3:56:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by love
I agree. Everything is love even Hitler is love. Let go and don’t attached anything to it, cause it just is.
To the Tibetan monks, the Chinese soldiers were Hitler. To Christ, the Roman guards were Hitler. To me right now, the car alarm blasting outside my window is Hitler. If you've got a long way to walk, the pebble in your shoe is Hitler.
The point isn't to detach from the things you deem good or Hitler. The point is to stop deeming...to quit post-processing your experiences into dualities of good/bad, like/dislike, etc. Such filtering happens a split second after the raw perception. Live in the raw perception and you connect with everything.
http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 2:27:32 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
The real mind trip thing is that even the karma is love. The dirt is love. And the ignorance. The whole bloody everything. May as well just let go. More. Even more.
Hello All,
I have been following this string for a few days and watching it develop... For me to comprehend and "get it" I may need a foundational point to apprecaite your point(s) of view. If in this exchange on love the idea/concept you are saying is; Love at its essence and most fundamental level is Pure consciousness,,it's found everywere, and hense can be all things (animate and inanimate) - I got it, end of story.
IF on the other hand it's something other then this, perhpaps I need a better definition. My vantage point is "all this is Brahman" so it fits for the Hitlers as well as the Pope or Shankarachara ( and all on this list).
Any and all clarity is appreciated.
Yogastha Kuru Karmani -"established in Yoga act" - Keshava's instruction to Arjuna
Frank In San Diego
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 4:12:10 PM
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Jim
Thank you so much for the link. It is great and very helpful.
love |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2006 : 9:39:05 PM
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Wish I could take credit for it. The Hsin Hsin Ming is one of the 4 or 5 most important spiritual documents of the millenium, IMO. And while it's prototypical Zen, it expresses the gist of jnana yoga beautifully. The advaita/jnana guys consider it their rallying cry :)
I've been reading it for 20 years and have never managed to get to the end. I get too inspired or too frustrated. As time goes by, it's more of the former and less of the latter (thoguh I'm not anywhere near vibrating with every word yet). Like so many things, it's only beautiful if you don't need it anymore. But it's a nice chisel to chip away, chip away. I come back to it every once in a while. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I'm chipping away at the Hsin Hsin Ming, or if it's chipping away at me. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by love
Jim
Thank you so much for the link. It is great and very helpful.
love
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 01 2006 9:40:16 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2006 : 4:42:03 PM
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My opinion (the only correct one ha ha) is that the problem is inherent in the ego. People who start new religions probably seldom want to exclude others, and are only trying to liberate people by surprising them with a new outlook. but then the new outlook gets surrounded by new egos that partially understand it, but want to claim it as their own, and exclude other people.
Etherfish
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2006 : 1:40:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Frank-in-SanDiego
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
The real mind trip thing is that even the karma is love. The dirt is love. And the ignorance. The whole bloody everything. May as well just let go. More. Even more.
Hello All,
I have been following this string for a few days and watching it develop... For me to comprehend and "get it" I may need a foundational point to apprecaite your point(s) of view. If in this exchange on love the idea/concept you are saying is; Love at its essence and most fundamental level is Pure consciousness,,it's found everywere, and hense can be all things (animate and inanimate) - I got it, end of story.
IF on the other hand it's something other then this, perhpaps I need a better definition. My vantage point is "all this is Brahman" so it fits for the Hitlers as well as the Pope or Shankarachara ( and all on this list).
Frank, sorry, I missed this posting. But I don't think it's anything other than that. I'm not big on the atman/brahman thing (I guess deep down I'm more Buddhist than Hindu), but in the end every religion says this: that the fabric of All That Is is pure consciousness, and the flavor of that fabric is love. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 08 2006 1:42:58 PM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2006 : 4:09:14 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I missed this posting. But I don't think it's anything other than that. I'm not big on the atman/brahman thing (I guess deep down I'm more Buddhist than Hindu), but in the end every religion says this: that the fabric of All That Is is pure consciousness, and the flavor of that fabric is love.
Hello Jim,
thx for even taking the time to consider this. I guess you can see from my posts that I am a bit more on the Arsa Dharma or Sanatana Dharma side of spirituality - these are the actual names of Hinduism; "Arsa" is the *religion* of the rishi's, and Sanatana from "sam" or to be at peace, either one works for me... funny how Hinduism crept in to the name. It came from the Sindu river and folks that lived around there were Sindu's - this morphed to Hindu's and you can figure out the rest.
re: Love and its definition - sounds reasonable, yet some of the dots do not align for me , yet its not worth the cycles to get to the crux of my questions, and goes beyond the AYP oritentation.
As long as its good *Sattvic* I am all for it.
re: Buddhism - a most excellent approach to life; we all would live and progress better if more took to this approach... This is the most uplifting and practical way , the middle way. Endulge me here 'cause I get uplifted typing Siddhartha's epiphany:
Siddhartha's insights came from overhearing a teacher speaking of music. If the strings on the instrument are set too tight, then the instrument will not play harmoniously. If the strings are set too loose, the instrument will not produce music.
Ahhh! the middle way, not too tight and not too loose, will produce harmonious music [life]. This chance conversation changed his life overnight. The goal was not to live a completely worldly life, nor was it to live a life in complete denial of the physical body, but to live in a Middle Way. The way out of suffering was through concentration, and since the mind was connected to the body, denying the body would hamper concentration, just as overindulgence would distract one from concentration.
I learned much from this... I thank him for this great lesson.
Frank In San Diego
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 2:41:37 PM
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i know we weren't meant to answer the original question, but it's so enticing. Like trying to NOT think of the color blue.
I think it has to do with the value of autonomy. Even though we someday return to God, we have gained value that was not there before, in our individuality. It's the same reason babies suffer. They're not only helpless, they are also old souls playing a part for a reason, that may be for themselves or others. The way we learn compassion for the innocent is by seeing the lack of it, or being one of them. If we protect the baby from all harm, it never gains the added value of growing up autonomously.
But back to the original premise, my question would be "What is the nature of time, and does it pass sequentially in all physical worlds?" This ties in with reincarnation, because I have heard the notion that all time exists at once, and only our perception is sequential.
I remember what seems like experiences from a past life, but could I be tapping into someone else's consciousness, or perhaps my own consciousness in another time that is happening simultaneously in a parallel universe?
Also, how do we know we are the same person as yesterday? We keep track of our individuality by the continuity of a sequence of events in our memory, but when we sleep we lose that continuity.
Do you know how a computer "hibernates"? it takes all information about all programs and processes that are running and dumps it into a file, then goes to sleep. Upon waking, it takes that file, and puts all that information back were it was, and continues with the instructions it was executing before sleep. If that hibernation file was implanted in another computer with the same programs and capability, the other computer could wake up and start in the same place as the original computer.
See what I'm getting at? We know who we are because of memories that connect the past with our body. What if, upon sleeping, our entire store of memories and feelings were dumped into a hibernation file. What we really are is a point of perception, and that point of perception could wake up with anyone's 'hibernation file' and body, and continue as if they were that person since birth. The body carries the stored emotions, not the point of perception. Only upon being conscious when we sleep can we answer this question. Of course saints are able to do this, and haven't come back with any earthshaking stories as far as I know. . . And then there's the perception of a soul one can see in the eyes.
Etherfish |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 4:17:56 PM
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Yes, Etherfish. Another way of looking at this is that identity is not real --- there is no identity, there is only identification which is a continuous process while we are awake.
Here's another spinner. If a person has behaved badly, and 'deserves' bad karma in a future life, then, in terms of the computer-hibernation analogy, exactly what is deserving of continuing with the bad patterns made by that life?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 6:53:29 PM
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good spin David; The entire Karma would have to belong to the hibernation file,
not the point of consciousness! So that would be consistent with the theory
of "everything is perfect" and "we are already enlightened".
Like zen people say- there is no state, only a process.
In other words, if karma is real, then the hibernation file would have to
contain all karma, but liberated consciousness may only link to
it for a day. This is consistent with we-are-all-one.
OMG, this is making my brain hemmorhage. |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 8:56:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What is the nature of time, and does it pass sequentially in all physical worlds?".
Hello Etherfish and David,
This is such a great subject... it has much to do with our perception as it does with the fabric of this universe.
What I see and read is there are two parts... there is past, present and future, and then there is NOW. NOW transcends all time and is the foundation. NOW never ends and in some of my other posts, is a junction point people can experience - they can experience this thing called NOW.
When you think about the concept of 'past', it was the present at some point, yes? just like this email... line 1 is past, but when you read it, it was the present. and the future is just the space bar head _ _ _ that then becomes the present! then fades to the past. This all comes up under the notion of "a momement and its sequence" which Patanjali points out in his Yoga Sutras. What is Infinite is NOW, and what is sequenced is past, present and future.
Isn't interesting ( to me) that both death and time have the same name Kala and Kali ( another name for the restrainer Yama); Yama restrains the continuous flow of moments.
Great topic..thx for bringing it up
"the justification of Death is not the denial of Life, but as a process of Life" - Sri Aurobindo
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 8:10:25 PM
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on yogani's question:
"How can we provide everyone on earth the means to live the reality of God within full time, if they choose to?"
Well, yogani is answering that in his actions as we write. . but about the "if they choose to" part; I think this is the reason for thousands of lifetimes and laws of karma to begin with.
Consider a terrorist for instance. How can he love God when he doesn't love himself, and his whole life has been filled with hate and killing? Some might say by showing him some love. but someone this deep into hate will not even see it. He will think you are a fool, or you are trying to trick him somehow.
They say an alcoholic won't make a decision to change until they "bottom out". Maybe it's the same for haters. If you're a suicide bomber, then are born again into a world full of hate, how many lives does it take to bottom out?
Or in the case of a homeless person; how can he try to love God when he feels nobody loves him, and he doesn't even know what love is?
And maybe it's the same story for trying to see past illusion when you are surrounded by a world that confirms that the illusions are real.
The thing that makes the difference has to be a quantum leap inside; a decision to consider the possibility that there is something else besides what one is immersed in; the illusion, or the hate, addiction, whatever.
If one could somehow cause that spark of a new type of decision making in other people, that would be powerful.
But what causes it? maybe the example of another person living differently than you. But if you're immersed in ego, the only things that impress you are ego gratifying things; the rich or famous or athletes.
So maybe divine intervention, but that spark will probably either fade away and be forgotten, or god forbid start another religion.
Maybe the spiritual energy of our age is the thing that helps combined with people "bottoming out" for a few lifetimes? I'd like to think that some people develop their own bhakti after just a little sorrow, but maybe that's why we have to live so many lives.
Etherfish |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 12:11:20 AM
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Hey Ether,
I agree with you on your theory of "bottoming out" I think that sometimes pain and suffering can be the greatest teachers.
I have seen people I care about go through tremendously difficult things in their lives and I want nothing more than to take their pain if I could but would I then also be taking away their learning and growth? Do these difficult situations we all go through from time to time afford us the opportunity to hit rock bottom as you put it and experience growth and intense desire to move in another direction from our suffering?
I think it must be one way. Another would be to choose prior to “bottoming out” that is if we are capable of doing so.
Anthem |
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rabar
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 6:48:02 PM
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Anthem writes: "I think sometimes pain and suffering can be the greatest teachers."
Although I agree, in the manner that applying a little stimulus to the donkey's rear end can improve one's forward locomotion, I also ponder how there might be an "X" amount of suffering on the planet, and incarnating Bodhisattvas sign up by the millions for how much they'll carry so that others won't have to. Does this make sense?
I just caught up today with this fascinating thread, and took some notes as I progressed so that I can quote a few folks -- and answer in turn. Apologies ahead for what may turn into a lengthy post -- and also for no doubt repeating myself from other threads, both here and elsewhere.
Anthem 11 wrote:
"Therefore why wouldn't someone who was “one with Brahman Consciousness” dispel ignorance? I believe because it would effectively end this play and stop life from the opportunity to live, learn and realize itself. = no fun!"
Agreed. You cannot write an interesting story titled “Happily Ever After.” To be interesting, a story has to contain conflict, good versus evil. I quoted something just recently on another list about this that I wrote a few years ago:
Subject: The Advaita Merry-Go-Round 3-2-03
The whole ever-recurring put-down by the Neti-Neti Advaita Knitting Society of any re-entry 'vehicles' into The Manifest, (once essential Nothingness has dissolved us, and we seek no more, and the light dawns that Nothing needs to be 'done' or 'undone' or 'understood' or 'realized'), begs at least one basic important consideration.
This consideration can be studied at almost mind-numbing length in the writings of Sri Aurobindo, who covers 'Her Descent' in "The Synthesis of Yoga," more directly in "Savitri" and to the point of intellectual pain in "The Life Divine." But however much these books may overdevelop the basic details, the fact remains that SOMEONE is manifesting. And She who manifests first is, of course naturally, Aditi, Parvati, The Divine Mother, The Blessed One, The Beloved, Kali, Isis, Ah-Unh. or whatever gracious name you wish to use to evoke the Mother Creator of Everwhere. I like to call her "Great-to-the-tenth-power Grandma Hattie," although I worry a little that it may seem disrespectful. But it does at least cover all eleven dimensions of Her Manifest-station.
Your Sedate Zerotudiness can sit in a puddle of nothingness forever and wait until She comes along and changes your diaper. Or you can help Her out by wiping your own metaphorical ass, getting off and/or on it as you prefer ('Yee-haw!') and riding out to tilt at some of the very prominent windmills that are cropping up like poisonous toadstools everywhere. (Who is talking?)
There's nothing G10-Grandma Hattie loves more than a good adventure yarn with EVIL _almost_ winning out before all her little heroes come riding over the ridge on their Mad Max steeds- of-preference (ass, donkey, caballo, Rocinante, various flavors of vehicles) as the Kosmic Kavalry charge, to PEACE on all those slimy toadie types who think they're entitled to gobble up all the ________ (fill in the blank with your own goody-of-choice.) It's all Goddess-thirst anyway, so just fill-em-up with high-octane bliss out of your hose/sprinkler/soaker/light sword/asspergillum of choice until their bliss-tolerance capacitors pop their buttons like those temperature gauges they put in those Safeway turkeys. Is little Georgie W. done yet (soak-soak)? He's getting sort of soggy and smiley, so put him down for a little nappy.
Ultimately, whatever it is that realizes its basic nothingness must remanifest again as SHE. Or at the very very least, 'on Her lap,' because everything we 'do' is what She does through us. This eliminates a lot of those 'rank' problems upon which even enlightened 'gurus' seem prone to waste their precious bodily fluids. It's not your fault, dearies, that pyramid power schemes are built into the species. But once G10-G'ma arrives, we're all automatically flat on our faces -- no discussion necessary because the bliss factor is so impressive that it just presses us to her very ample bosom -- a Big Mama mega-wipe-out hug! Pluff! Woof! Happiness! Joy! She's HERE!
As She once said so succinctly, "What go 'round, come 'round." And that includes your own hobby horse on the OK Corral's Carousel, Sweetums. And, joy, joy! There are enough brass rings to give everyone a free ride! So, "Mount up! Time's a-wastin' if you wanna be in at the final De-Now-Moment."
[END RANT #858-7A]
Shanti wrote:
"So why so many Holy books. Why so many people killing and hurting to prove their book is the absolute truth. If the first time God or a Prophet created a second religion to update the books... to fit the changing society... and it created a division of people... and again the second religion just added to the hate.. why so many..."
Books are an iffy proposition. Although I've written some, and also am very grateful for the ones Yogani is producing, so-called HOLY books in which every word is God's sacred utterance and watch OUT what you say about it have caused great misery over time. The problem has been that the second holy book did not update the first, perhaps because the Internet did not exist at the time. So the only way to get the update out was to invade the next tribe over the hill and tell them either to worship your updated version or die. Religions, in my opinion are like peaches. They do not travel well and should be 'consumed' where they occur. In fact, I think religions may be the disease to which they pretend to be the cure. Or as I wrote someone earlier:
The main problem begins when the followers write down what they think the beloved master said. Once written down, you no longer are encouraged to 'do it yourself.' Here is a somewhat academic expression of this by friend and fellow-traveller Stuart Sovatsky. Just substitute any of the various western book religions for his focus on yoga and meditation. The thrust of his quote is that when the original dionysian experience gets co-opted, written down, a priesthood evolves to 'interpret' the writings to the unitiated, and it's all downhill from there. I prefer the shaman's path that remains focused on the dionysian aspect, although I'll "go AYP" as well. From "Words from the Soul," by Stuart Sovatksy, Ph.D. Maturation of the Ensouled Body p.147
RECOVERING THE DIONYSIAN-ENDOGENOUS YOGA ...Both indigenously over the ages, and in their translation and importation into the West, the "innately arising" (sahaja), panentheistic, dionysian origins of yoga and meditation have been shaped and overshaped into apollonian, pedagogical constructs, cosmeticized or leveled for mass appeal, sterilized for upper-class gentilities, or otherwise tamed and overtamed to avoid real or imagined dangers... The mysterious flow of lineage stiffened into the rigidities of caste, also in contrast to the dionysian rejection of caste prejudice and the "crazy wisdoms" that ridicule it. The reverentially ecstatic "Dance of Siva, Lord of Yogis," became stylized in public rituals, "classical" music and dance, and in the yogic asanas themselves, or withered in the severe asceticisms of the fakir.
By the second century A.D., Patanjali's dualistic, "classical" Yoga-Sutras had formalized an overseparation between Nature (prakriti) and Ultimate Subjectivity (purusha), thus "rejecting the idea that the world is an aspect of the Divine" (Feuerstein 1989, p. 412). Thus the shamanic or dionysian yoga and its bond with mystical phenomenology maintained in the living moment ... arose and then fell into evermore secularized, scriptural fundamentalisms. The sequence of dionysian yoga's "fall" from dionysian-soteriological time and in-the- moment narrative utterances into the apollonian mundane time and its "formalized narratives and "histories of events" is as follows:
1. the spirit-in-time revealed as a superlative, private bodily experience (ecstasy or enstasy),
2. emerged publicly as presemantic ecstatic- catalytic utterances and dancing-swaying movements, [spontaneous kriyas, charisms, speaking in tongues, trance states], then
3. languaged orally as sheer descriptions of the experience, then
4. memorized and scriptured into an orthodox text or externalized liturgical commemoration (yoga and meditation as teachings; the movements classicalized as ritual forms),
5. its lessons fableized for charm (the ancient myths), then
6. in search of a genteel purity, its sparkling and sensual phenomenology put into disembodied descriptions of "heaven realms" or sheer "higher states of consciousnesses," and
7. as texts and practices exported into the West, formulized for mass pedagogical ease (the contemporary yoga books and aerobics-like classes, stress-reduction courses, and other holistic applications or new-age appropriations),
8. made abstract or "symbolic" of something else, or "primitivized" by scholars for learned discourse (the transpersonalist's synthesizing schemas), and, at all junctures,
9. suppressed or championed by religio- political forces; eroded by sectarian rivalries and scandals; desiccated as the legalistic, purely academic word, or scorned as mere superstition.
Via further translations into the modern pragmatic-scientific vernacular, instead of an inner awe of wonder and delight, we now speak of "spiritual practices," "visualization techniques," yogic "states of consciousness" and quasi-Newtonian "spiritual energies." Instead of a well-mapped but dynamic, esoteric phenomenology of marvelous... meditative experiences ... illuminating the mind (and for which Elizarenkova counts more than fifteen verbs denoting its brilliance in the Rig Veda) we have the dry brahmanic (Indian or Western) abstractions or translations depicting only exoteric spritual libations, transrational evolutionary schemas, tantric visualization practices, and theonyms for sun worship.
[End Sovatsky quote]
Meg:
We humans tend to associate love with tender feelings, and indeed that is when it's easiest to "love". But when we love another in the absence of those tender feelings, that's when we start to tap into the real deal.
Also:
Love quoting Jim:
"Yeah, but it's not something we develop. It's what we already are."
Love wrote:
"The above quote from Jim is saying we are love, but it is covered up with karma and we in AYP and others are doing daily practice to uncover that love which we are. This is what I have been thinking but wanted some confirmation from others. Thank you all."
My Theory of Love-a-tivity can be written: Love = allEnergy+allConsciousness2
A favorite document on love I found on a Dutch advaita site that also pubishes its occasional journals on line in English. This excerpt is from their third volume at
http://www.ods.nl/am1gos/am1gos3/index.html
from a talk given by Wolter Keers titled "Love Cannot Be Given" (scroll down his page for the full text). [QUOTE]
I had a meeting yesterday evening with a group of psychiatrists and psychologists. There I defended the proposition that there is only one psychic obstacle and that you can reduce all of psychology and psychotherapy, and all psychiatry to that one obstacle.
That one problem is that we have forgotten that we are love. It was told to us when we were little that we got love from our mother and father and so on. And when it all maybe went wrong later in all sorts of ways, we discovered that we had not received enough love. And so love became for us something like a sack of potatoes that you can give and get in a big sack or a small sack and the like.
This has nothing to do with love. What we actually are is the most humble of all humble things, that in which everything arises. That is the light itself. Nothing is more ordinary, common, everyday than that light; we have known nothing except that. Love is the discovery of myself (the light) in the other; the recognition of the Silence that I am in the other. That is love. Love cannot be given to anyone, you cannot get love; you can't make
water wet, because water is wetness. Neither can anyone give you love, no one can receive love from you, you can only recognize love in yourself and you can recognize love in others. The moment that it happens, there is naturally no other anymore, because you indeed recognize in other, in the most literal sense, notice well, in the most literal sense; yourself. I never speak to anyone except myself, and you never hear anyone except yourself. I cannot underline enough how literally true this is. Love is to recognize yourself in the other, in what you unjustly saw as 'an other' until that moment.
But it is yourself that you see there because there is only one Self. There is only one light. There is only one love. The recognition of yourself in the other, of the Silence that you are in the other, of the light that you are in the other, that is what we call love. It is not a question of giving, it is not a question of receiving, it is a question of recognition.
[END QUOTE]
Jim wrote:
"Such filtering happens a split second after the raw perception. Live in the raw perception and you connect with everything."
Apologies if I posted this here before:
Dylan W. (1999). The half-second delay: what follows?
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/educati...s/ECER99.pdf
The Abstract from the essay above:
There is an increasing body of evidence that only a miniscule proportion of sensory data processed by the unconscious mind (capable of processing approximately 11 million bits per second) is referred to the conscious mind (capable of processing approximately 50 bits per second). It is also clear that the conscious awareness of stimuli from the environment lags actual perception by approximately half a second, but that a backward referral of subjective experience results in an individual's perception of the stimulus and its conscious awareness as simultaneous. These findings challenge the primacy and supremacy of conscious processing of information on which a substantial proportion of educational practice and policy is based, and suggest a re-evaluation of the nature of teacher competence and expertise.
Etherfish wrote:
"Like trying to NOT think of the color blue."
(Again, I hope I'm not repeating myself from elsewhere on the forum)
My American mother Julia's one-armed Aunt Emma's cure for hiccups, was to "Walk around the house not thinking of a fox." Actually not thinking of a fox is a great meditation teaching. But while not thinking of a fox, I also not-wondered what the fox himself was not thinking. I think this photo points this out.
http://raysender.com/fox%20%27n%20hounds.jpg
"At the moment of no-thought, no-thought itself is not," said Wu Zhu
Thank you for reminding me that I am you!
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2006 : 9:16:48 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
Hello Folks,
I thought I would just close out this tread by the last sutra of the Siva-Jnanamrtia Upanishad, I thought it fit:
When the Jivanmukti looks at all 'this', he reflects on his trancendental view ( called Paramarthika drishti) and sees the following:
"There is neither birth or death, neither bondage nor freedom, neither sadhana nor samadhi; neither meditator nor meditated, neither seeker after liberation nor liberated - this is the ultimate truth"
this is what one see's with even vision.
Frank In San Diego
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