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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 09:28:23 AM
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Meg said:
The meg/chocolate thing again. For the sake of simplicity, I'll just go with it this time, altho sitting around eating it for an eternity is less than what I'd hoped for.
Hi Jim,
All right. I'll do it for Meg. Time to be explicit.
It was Melissa, not Meg, who confessed that her love of chocolate binds her strongly to the Great Cycle of Birth and Death -- so much so that I believe that she will remain ambivalent about her liberation from that Cycle while chocolate still exists....
Meg has expressed no greater an interest in the chocky-dark-side than have you, or I, or these leaders of men....
As for what binds Meg to the Cycle, I infer that she is attached to her identity as an individual, distinct from Melissa.....
So we'll put Melissa on the cloud, eating chocolate for an eternity, and Meg, sitting beside her on the cloud, will thrive on her identity separate from Melissa. An economical arrangement, since the chocolates do not have to be shared.
As for the type of chocolates, I think 'M & M s' sound just right...
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 28 2005 10:24:57 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 11:27:27 AM
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Thanks, David. I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy and individuated. There's just so few of us li'l ladies on the forum that it seems a shame that we all get rolled into one big Tootsie Roll. And Jim, fwiw, I think you're great. 
love
megzy |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 12:10:20 PM
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You know, I actually went back and checked that thread before posting to make sure my memory was correct. And it looked like Meg was the chocoholic. Could there be some denial going on here?
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 12:36:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
There's just so few of us li'l ladies on the forum that it seems a shame that we all get rolled into one big Tootsie Roll.
Well, Meg, look on the bright side. If you ever make a helpless distress-call, the jungle will come alive about ten times as fast as it would for one of us guys....
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 28 2005 2:37:07 PM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 12:54:03 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~
Hello Folks,
My additional question is this ( if you have an answer I am all ears!!!)
On this earth we go through cycles of Sat Yuga, Treta, Dvapara and Kali Yuga.
Does the rest of the universe comply to this cycle? That is, can we be in Kali and another part of the universe be in TRETA Yuga? This assumes others are living elsewere and would influnce thier lives.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 12:59:57 PM
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Nope, no denial. Check it again, Jeff. :) I'm a chocolate fan, but definitely no addict.
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 1:35:17 PM
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Hari OM
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Originally posted by Shanti
Why is it that every prophet or God that came to this world started a new religion, said that it was the best, and divided the human race into Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, Christians and many more? Why create this division and that only leads to so much hatred?
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Namaste Shanti,
what a great (great) question. I have no answer but have considered this dilemma on many occasions. Today there's 22 major religions documented and approx.~ 4,300 different faith groups.
if I may -
All religions (Latin form: religare - to tie back, bind, or to bring one back) in essence mean well. They seem to lack the common thread that binds it all together. This "bind back" has some merit, if looked at from a spiritual point of view... To bind back to the source of this creation.
I was taught it is like a tree.
All the leaves are expressions of the sap that nourishes the total tree. Each leaf represents a religion. Like that, religions are expressing the best they can the value of the sap.
Its the Sap that is the fundamental ingredient and is expressed in the leaves. So, its said by the wise come to know the sap ( pure consciousness, Brahman, Being, Isvara)... this sap-knowing is the crux of AYP, kriya yoga, raj yoga, etc. Diving into the pure consciousness of the SELF.
The sap is w/o religious affiliation as it is the source of all, so say the wise.
The questions that also begs to be answered - of these religions, have any fulfilled their goal? Peace on earth? The realization of GOD by the common man? If not, perhaps they are too caught up in the branches and leaves and have forgotten what nourishes them ( the pure sap).
Peace and abundance in your practices.
Frank In San Diego
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 1:39:47 PM
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Hari Om
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Meg said: The meg/chocolate thing again...
It was Melissa, not Meg, who confessed that her love of chocolate
Last time I looked chocolate was one of the 3 main food groups?
No?
Frank In San Diego
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 2:46:38 PM
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First and foremost, hats off to Frank for once again creating an exceptionally popular thread. I have a two in one question that I will throw in at the end.
For now I would love a crack at Frank's original question and I have to agree with Near and Mystiq on this one.
I believe that this universe we are in is entertainment or "play" for itself. Given this hypothesis that jumping into separate existence is an experiment of play, I also believe that it is likely that the Universal perspective on "good" or "bad" distinctions of any experience vanish and that it is all just one big experience in the end. This answer seems to fit a lot of questions. Therefore why wouldn't someone who was “one with Brahman Consciousness” dispel ignorance? I believe because it would effectively end this play and stop life from the opportunity to live, learn and realize itself. = no fun!
My question(s): How is it that I/ we are here and why the heck am I here?
Someone please....
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Ute
39 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 2:51:44 PM
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Shanti
I’m wondering if the prophets or god’s really started new religions, or did the people around them? Maybe the wise ones taught the Truth and people interpreted it according to their frame of mind. Maybe world peace has a chance when the average Joe’s/Jane’s consciousness comes to a higher level. I think that’s why our practice is so important. By raising our own consciousness, we can make the world a better place.
Ute |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 6:16:29 PM
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Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, Christians and many more? Why create this division and that only leads to so much hatred?
A good question with answers on many levels. Firstly, along the lines Ute has spoken, often it was more other people than the prophets who formed the religions.
Another thing is that not all religions are divisive or hateful. Buddhism and Hinduism are not particularly prone to religious wars. I think a lot depends on the level of consciousness of the area in which the religion arises, as well as that of its founder(s).
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 6:38:40 PM
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Hari Om
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Hello/Namaste sadhu's
A few on this string brought up the notion of reincarnation/rebirth of the soul. I thought I would share what the Upanishads gives a hint to this… your own thinking on this is most warmly welcomed.
From the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Saririka-brahmana
"As a goldsmith taking a piece of gold moulds it into another newer and better pattern, even so
This SELF, verily striking this body down, having attained the state of senselessness, makes yet Another newer and better pattern, either in manes, or gandharvas or gods, or prajapati or brahma or other beings."
This suggests the migration of SELF to another plane/position/being is possible and happens.
It continues in the next sutra:
"As one does, as one conducts, so does s/he become. The doer of good becomes good, the
evil-doer becomes evil. One becomes meritorious through merit, vicious through vice. But Some say this person is identified with the desire only. As he is desirous of, so does he resolve;
What s/he resolves that s/he works, what s/he works upon that s/he attains."
The next sutra then describes the fate of the Self-realized and what happens to these blessed souls. I will leave this to your reading if you care to pursue.
The Upanishads, the Mahabharata and the Bhagavad-Gita discuss where a person goes based upon the time of year - specially, where the suns path resides ( North direction or South direction) during ones death. Its said that Bishma (in the Mahabharata) waited on a bed of arrows (due to being shot by Arjuna) for the sun to take its northern path (called Uttarayana) before dropping the body.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 6:42:45 PM
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Hi Frank,
there is certainly a lot in the ancient Indian scriptures which implies reincarnation --- and there are passages in the illustrious Bhagavad Gita which do.
I mean I want to KNOW. In other words, with greater certainty than I feel from reading those scriptures.
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 28 2005 6:43:16 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 6:46:13 PM
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Please don't misunderstand me David. I am not saying that any religion is hateful. The basis of all religions in love and how to find God. What I am questioning is why the wise men and God created so many religions.. God is one and if the religion was one... people would fight about something else, but not God. Almost every scripture teaches about the same things. So why so many Holy books. Why so many people killing and hurting to prove their book is the absolute truth. If the first time God or a Prophet created a second religion to update the books... to fit the changing society... and it created a division of people... and again the second religion just added to the hate.. why so many... why could these wise men and God not see how it breaks people up and divides them and takes them further away from God. Why not stop there... I think what Frank says is true.... quote:
The questions that also begs to be answered - of these religions, have any fulfilled their goal? Peace on earth? The realization of GOD by the common man? If not, perhaps they are too caught up in the branches and leaves and have forgotten what nourishes them ( the pure sap).
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 6:54:10 PM
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Hari OM
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Originally posted by david_obsidian
I mean I want to KNOW. In other words, with greater certainty than I feel from reading those scriptures.
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Hello David, boy, I am with ya on that!!!
Its the best my pea brain can muster at this level of ignorance... i.e. look to what others say that have a clue for guidence.
>>> I want to "KNOW" w/o one iota of doubt with ya!<<<<
Thanks!!!
Frank In San Diego
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2005 : 7:20:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Please don't misunderstand me David. I am not saying that any religion is hateful. The basis of all religions in love and how to find God. What I am questioning is why the wise men and God created so many religions..
Not to worry, I didn't mean to suggest that you were saying that they were all hateful.
What I would say myself is that they are not all equally non-hateful.
Whereas they may in a sense have the same source, I don't believe that they are all, by any means, at the same level in certain respects. This can be true for the adherents as well as the founders.
India had probably gotten into a state of significant religious tolerance many, many centuries ago, maybe some time before Gautama Buddha.
The rest of the world is not all as far ahead, though tolerant individuals (and sects and streams) exist everywhere.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 28 2005 7:21:31 PM |
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 12:34:02 AM
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| What is Love? |
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mystiq
India
62 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 06:43:51 AM
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God or Self is one. Every once in a while he needs some entertainment and thinks (let me be two)and assumes the Shiva Shakti, or consciousness energy, duo. From this the manifold worlds emerge.(evolution) therefore multiple beliefs religions prophets wars death birth rebirth etc.For him its a tamasha a joke, because he knows its all fake and theres only himself. You being a small part of the whole may think its abominable so you take up AYP to merge the two into one again lol. When he gets fed up with it all he will merge the show back into himself by merging the energy back into himself and the whole of creation gets merged back (involution). Then again he may cook up a totally different unnverse with his shakti or energy. Comments?
mystiq |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 9:00:53 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by love
What is Love?
Namaste and hello,
For me, love is the highest level of appreciation one is capible of expressing/feeling. What is so interesting, is that there is even an emotion that converts to feeling, and tries to be converted to an expression. It is the most delicate and innocent emotion I have experienced, and the most compelling.
The wise say , personal love that is experienced between humans or other beings ( pets,etc) is concentrated universal love. They also say "all love is directed towards the SELF". I can appreciate and understand this point of view; if not pondered for a bit it may sound somewhat conceited or even selfish.
Thanks for the post... great question.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 9:10:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by love
What is Love?
Absolutely everything. It's the fabric of all. All those undulating weepy nutty people with the bangle bracelets are correct. Thank goodness you don't need to undulate to appreciate it. I'm not big on undulation.
The love for a significant other is just a taste of this omnipresent fabric...it's the channel through which we most keenly experience it. Art is another, as is nature. if you witness your appreciation of any of these things (i.e. you look at the painting, then the frame, then the wall, then out the window, then at the other people, etc etc.......or you talk to someone who's just kissed the person s/he loves), you'll catch the spillover. The manifestation changes, but the love and beauty are pandemic and intrinsic.
I am, though, working on the starving babies. It's not "good", but it's still love (love recognizes no dualisms - i.e. preferences/aversions). And a grim, sad film full of evil conduct can still be beautiful and permeated with great love.
Art's a good model for all this stuff, as the universe is a creative work of art (we're all collaborators). |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 29 2005 9:15:22 PM |
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 2:44:03 PM
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Thank you all.
So, is love everything? Is love God? Is love conciousness? Is love all there is. Are you love? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 6:43:16 PM
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| Yes, yes, yes, yes, and...yes but I'm not trying to usurp your nametag. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 8:12:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Frank-in-SanDiego
For me, love is the highest level of appreciation one is capible of expressing/feeling.
I disagree, as this makes love a subjective emotion, which I think is misleading. Love is an energy that exists apart from us, which we can tap into it or not, according to our level of consciousness. Frank -- you often speak of experiences of Self, when the clouds clear and we have a momentary glimpse of That. Love is similar; it is an ever-present, objective energy (or fabric) which, when experienced on the subjective level, is not so much gushy and feel-good, but hardcore and intense.
We humans tend to associate love with tender feelings, and indeed that is when it's easiest to "love". But when we love another in the absence of those tender feelings, that's when we start to tap into the real deal.
meg |
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love
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 03:04:47 AM
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| So, when someone loves unconditionally like Mother Theresa did, from where is that kind of love coming? Isn't the essence of God within us doing that kind of loving? |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 10:59:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by love
So, when someone loves unconditionally like Mother Theresa did, from where is that kind of love coming? Isn't the essence of God within us doing that kind of loving?
My take is that someone like Mother Teresa is a 'clean vessel', meaning that she was sufficiently pure enough that love - the energy - could move through her to others in a great outpouring of energy. Which from what Yogani has written, I take to be something that we can expect ourselves as we purify. I'm just guessing here, but it would seem that at some point on the road to enlightenment, we effortlessly tap into that energy, or it comes and finds us, and then we can expect an outpouring ourselves.
I once read about some Tibetan monks, who were asked how they were able to withstand the horrendous treatment by the Chinese during their captivity. One of them said that he just kept loving the soldiers who tortured them. He couldn't help it, he said; the love just kept coming to him and through him, and he was helpless to do anything but love his 'enemy'.
m |
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