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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 25 2009 : 9:07:59 PM
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Does anybody ever lose energy during sleep?
I can feel a subtle vibration/purring in my body during the day, strongest after my meditation sessions, and I usually feel it still when i go to sleep. But when I wake up it is gone... Why? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2009 : 8:52:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Does anybody ever lose energy during sleep?
I can feel a subtle vibration/purring in my body during the day, strongest after my meditation sessions, and I usually feel it still when i go to sleep. But when I wake up it is gone... Why?
That doesn't sound like a loss of energy as much as a "blending"; in the relaxing of unconsciousness (aka "sleep"  ).
Paramahamsa Nithyananda describes the purpose of meditation very clearly:
Suffering comes from the thinking/dreaming state pervading the waking and deep sleep states.
Meditation helps awareness (aka inner silence / turiya {fourth state} ) to permeate the waking and deep sleep states.
And so, while you're sleeping .... that's when much of your true "kundalini awakening" is actually happening!
I'm not familiar with this specific dynamic you mention .... there's a lot of individual stuff that goes on with kundalini, and that's well within normal range.
I wouldn't take it to be energy loss, though, unless you feel there's some other sign that it may be (i.e. waking up much more tired than normal, etc.)
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 7:41:23 PM
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So it is just blending? I mean I will be full of energy before I go to bed and even when I wake up during the night I still have it - it might even be stronger at times- but when I wake up it is totally gone! And I usually wake up very crabby and sore- at first I thought the energy was clearing the suboxone out of my system faster than usual but I really just don't know what it is.
I do know though that it would be nice to feel that feeling when I wake up- that is perhaps when I need it the most! But I also know I have to let it be, accept it as is, and not expect anything more...
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2009 : 11:23:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
So it is just blending? I mean I will be full of energy before I go to bed and even when I wake up during the night I still have it - it might even be stronger at times- but when I wake up it is totally gone! And I usually wake up very crabby and sore- at first I thought the energy was clearing the suboxone out of my system faster than usual but I really just don't know what it is.
I do know though that it would be nice to feel that feeling when I wake up- that is perhaps when I need it the most! But I also know I have to let it be, accept it as is, and not expect anything more...
Hi Bellamente,
I didn't realize, until I read your other post, that you're clearing so much stuff biochemically .... that probably has a lot to do with it.
I was just saying that feeling a certain vibration a one point, and not another ... especially when sleep is involved ... I'd inherently interpret as a blending, more than an obvious energy loss.
And that was said mostly to answer your initial question, which was:
"Does anybody ever lose energy during sleep?"
Based on your other posts, questions ... I interpreted your question as being about kundalini/prana type of energy.
Based on the detail in the other thread on addiction, I'd say it (your feeling crappy when waking up) likely has more to do with biochemical changes than anything else (purely as an intuitive guess kinda thing).
My main point was that:
In general, kundalini/prana type energy doesn't tend to be "lost" during sleep.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2009 : 7:19:17 PM
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Perhaps Kirtanman already said it with the word blending. In my experience, if you relax physically for a longer time, even heavy energy rushes calm down, not because the energy drops, but because of lesser friction in the system. Your body adapts to the energy flow. But even if it adapts on a dense and more physical level, you can still have lots of suptler friction and irritation on a sensual level. Or a foggy mind etc.
So if a sleep smooths the energy flow, then be happy and go on =) |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2009 : 10:42:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
...
My main point was that:
In general, kundalini/prana type energy doesn't tend to be "lost" during sleep.
Hi Kirtanman, :)
That is not how I understand it. Do you have any sources? I would be curious to read them.
I have read in many places that thinking and dreaming require great amounts of energy/prana. I have also read that when a person reaches beyond the "deep sleep with no dreams" state that the spirit returns to the totality of divine being and this process balances out energy excess or energy loss. It is also a time when sexual prana is replenished.
Have you not heard about how, after dissolving a thought by fixating on it, there is a heat that is released? The normal mind has thousands of thoughts and thousands of dreams occuring all at the same time. They are all using up tons of prana. We are all walking prana sieves. Whether you are aware of your dreams or not, they are always draining you of prana.
By truly stilling the waking mind and the dreaming mind, we halt this prana loss and the newly acquired energy can then be used for spiritual growth or other things such as superconsciousness, siddhis etc.. Or, through pranayama and/or food, we can increase these stores. Or you can train a chakra to suck in the prana by willing it (the third eye is typically used by Paramahansa Yogananda) thus producing a steady source of prana. Think about the yogis that bury themselves underground in an air tight box and remain there for months or years.
Many times, for me, after performing a Reiki session during the day, I will wake up in a pool of sweat in the middle of the night. That to me indicates that excess energy I accumulated during the Reiki session is dissipating itself through increased metabolism. Isn't increased metabolism increased prana usage?
Aside from the mentioned "feeling crappy" and body purification, I would say that the reason BellaMente's "subtle vibration/purring" is gone in the morning is because the mind is more refreshed, energetic having renewed itself in the divine essence, and it is covering up the subtle vibrations. The vibrations are still there, it's just that the refreshed mind is now stronger and it blocks them out. Same argument as "The stars are always there, but when the sun shines you can't see them". Depending on what kind of meditation is being performed, sometimes the best time to meditate is when the mind is really tired because it is more easily defeated at that point.
Don't we live in an ocean of unlimited prana and as we clear and purify our minds, have more access to that prana? Isn't the best time to perform self-inquiry after a deep meditation or upon return from the jhana states, when the mind has been cleared, stilled, focused and energized?
BellaMente, eventually you will stabilize in that subtle vibration/purring in the body. It will grow and evolve the more you meditate, clear your body-mind and purify.. Wonderful!
:)
TI
note: The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily in accordance with AYP philosophies or practices. |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Oct 30 2009 10:50:33 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 9:04:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
...
My main point was that:
In general, kundalini/prana type energy doesn't tend to be "lost" during sleep.
Hi Kirtanman, :)
That is not how I understand it. Do you have any sources? I would be curious to read them.
I have read in many places that thinking and dreaming require great amounts of energy/prana. I have also read that when a person reaches beyond the "deep sleep with no dreams" state that the spirit returns to the totality of divine being and this process balances out energy excess or energy loss. It is also a time when sexual prana is replenished.
Your points are valid, primarily accurate and well-made .... thanks!
My comments at any given time are not "absolute", but rather, relative to the situation, and the person I am primarily addressing (Bellamente, in terms of the comments of mine we're discussing).
Bellamente felt that she might be "losing energy during sleep" ..... and what I meant to say is:
It's likely that she's not losing any more energy than an average person usually does during sleep, when she sleeps.
The context being Bellamente's first post in this thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Bellamente
"Does anybody ever lose energy during sleep?
I can feel a subtle vibration/purring in my body during the day, strongest after my meditation sessions, and I usually feel it still when i go to sleep. But when I wake up it is gone... Why?
... and my answer was geared toward her specific question .... but not her general one (<--- her first sentence, above).
quote:
Have you not heard about how, after dissolving a thought by fixating on it, there is a heat that is released?
Not specifically, but I can see how it could (with the understanding that by "fixating" you're referring to the sustained attention of dhyana); I experience a very similar dynamic, which I gleaned from information in a commentary on the Yoga Spandakarika, and which I practiced for some time:
When we rest in open (still, silent) awareness, and catch a thought as it arises, before or right at the separation into subject and object, and stop .... a great deal of energy and bliss is released .... the very energy/bliss which would otherwise have gone into that thought and the manifesting and perception of that thought, including the faux-subjective side of that thought (the "I" thinking the thought).
To get to that silent awareness, a helpful technique (from the Vijnanabhairava Tantra ... and I believe the Yoga Spandakarika, as well; regardless of its source{s}, it works! ) is to catch the "gap" between to thoughts or feelings. I found that this is most easily done with basic perception ... for instance .... I'm looking at the words I'm typing right now ... and then just glanced down at my hands/keyboard; in order to create the perception of hands typing ... I had to dissolve the perception of seeing words ... and in between those two perceptions is a gap .... that gap of clear awareness is what we are; inner silence ... clear awareness.
From that place, you can try the "turning thinking into bliss technique" mentioned above.
Please Note (anyone) ... if this isn't your experience, and/or you feel you cannot do this ... just keep cultivating inner silence; this is an "anyone can do" thing (as with "all things yoga") ... but it's an intermediate-stage practice; some inner silence is needed, first.
And so, yes:
Thinking/thoughts contain a vast amount of energy, for sure.
The memory and dreams of the limited thought-self, and the "thought-self itself" *is* essentially loss of energy ... or, perhaps a better illustration would be "freezing" of energy; freezing it in those forms makes it unavailable for awareness of true nature, now (aka presence-awareness).
However, the cessation, temporarily, known as deep sleep, of the dream/thinking layer, and the thought of the limited "I" that the limited I perceives to be itself .... also provides rest and replenishment, via the resting of that agitation.
The only source I have for this is my own experiencing as source (as well as accessible memory of the dream of being veiled-source) ... and so the references you'd like to read are ..... this post.
quote:
The normal mind has thousands of thoughts and thousands of dreams occuring all at the same time. They are all using up tons of prana. We are all walking prana sieves. Whether you are aware of your dreams or not, they are always draining you of prana.
That's a very good summation.
(Limited) Thinking is the problem.
(Unlimited) Awareness (Inner Silence / Turiya) is the cure.
The best overview I've seen of how this works, stated simply and clearly, is in this video:
Paramahamsa Nithyananda on the Four States of Consciousness
quote:
By truly stilling the waking mind and the dreaming mind, we halt this prana loss and the newly acquired energy can then be used for spiritual growth or other things such as superconsciousness, siddhis etc..
Yes .... very true .... and very important (it might even be called the *key*); thanks again for bringing this up!!
Again, my comments to Bellamente prior to this post, were designed to alleviate her concerns (as I understood them) that she might be unusually losing energy while sleeping; everyone loses energy (while simultaneously regaining it) during sleep (as well as during so-called waking, and dreaming-thinking - all of which cancel out any "gains" - unenlightenment is a zero-sum game) ... prior to a certain point in awakening ... when the "net gain" created by clear awareness permeating waking, dreaming and deep sleep exceeds the "net loss" of the freezing of energy into conditioned memory of-as form/limited thinking/memory of-as limited thinking.
NOTE: Dreaming/Thinking is pure loss, but because dreaming occurs while physically asleep, and thinking occurs while supposedly awake, there is a commensurate "gain", simultaneously, per the dynamics of the overall, apparent state of consciousness. The cycling of the three limited states and the agitation of gain-loss, loss-gain ... adds up to the manifestation of unenlightenment on an ongoing basis.
Meditation is the only known cure.
And, that's why the entirety of the Yoga Sutras is summed up in the simple equation:
Yogash Citta Vrtti Nirodhah
~Yoga Sutras I.2
"Enlightenment is the ceasing of the disturbance of consciousness."*
*My translation.
When the agitation stops .... so does the manifestation of unenlightenment.
quote:
Or, through pranayama and/or food, we can increase these stores.
Yes ... but in a much more limited manner than with clear awareness; as clear awareness, we are the knowing that we are the aware space we're always ever immersed in now.
quote:
Or you can train a chakra to suck in the prana by willing it (the third eye is typically used by Paramahansa Yogananda) thus producing a steady source of prana.
Yogananda was big on the medulla, too (base of skull, in the back) -- see Yogananda's Energization Exercises for details.
And presumably true ... I don't have enough familiarity with your statements above to say, one way or the other ... though it certainly fits with what I know to be true.
However, as it seems you may know:
The more gross/physical the energy source, the lower the energy transfer ... and so, physical means of gaining energy are the least powerful, mental form methods (i.e. chakra-centric techniques, spinal breathing, etc.) for gaining energy are more powerful but still very limited; releasing attachment to conditioned conceptual memory (by dissolving it with clear awareness, with inquiry and with other practices) is yet more powerful and less limited .... and resting as clear awareness now is unlimited.
NOTE: Though also understanding that physical and mental-form methods for generating energy are necessary, and are the foundation upon which the return home is built ... and are thus indispensible; without the first two levels/sets of methods mentioned above, the latter two are pretty much impossible (you can't do much yoga if you don't eat or drink, or if you don't thaw out the ice of conditioned memory via yogic techniques and alert awareness ... the awakening/liberating // generating // cultivating kundalini energy.)
quote:
Think about the yogis that bury themselves underground in an air tight box and remain there for months or years.
Dead ones or live ones?
"But seriously now" ...... I don't know anything about that kinda thing, though as Nisargadatta says:
"Anything is possible with training."
quote:
Many times, for me, after performing a Reiki session during the day, I will wake up in a pool of sweat in the middle of the night. That to me indicates that excess energy I accumulated during the Reiki session is dissipating itself through increased metabolism. Isn't increased metabolism increased prana usage?
Well, yes ... but that doesn't necessarily mean "loss" .... it may literally be "loss" in the same way that physical defecation/excretion is "loss" ... but, at the same time, it may be facilitating a balance in your overall energetic experience which could otherwise be counter-productive and/or uncomfortable.
quote:
Aside from the mentioned "feeling crappy" and body purification, I would say that the reason BellaMente's "subtle vibration/purring" is gone in the morning is because the mind is more refreshed, energetic having renewed itself in the divine essence, and it is covering up the subtle vibrations. The vibrations are still there, it's just that the refreshed mind is now stronger and it blocks them out.
Ah, I think I see what you're saying:
"Refreshed mind" is stronger mind ... and therefore, limiting thoughts have the power to eclipse freed blissful energy experience .... the "subtle vibration" she feels before sleep.
Good insight ..... though, again:
Not everyone experiences this dynamic this directly (but that doesn't mean it's not happening; it could be that Bellamente's awakened kundalini is manifesting as a more overt experiencing of this dynamic).
Regardless .... think less; let thoughts and feeling go more; keep practicing .... would be the "take-away" from that for anyone with similar experiences and/or who still feels attached to thinking and/or related emotions.
Per Bellamente's comments elsewhere about her chemical intake, and mental attitudes ... I would guess those things have at least as much to do with how she feels than dynamics related to her awakened kundalini and related "feeling crappy".
Overall, it's simple yet complex:
Thinking veils awareness.
This manifests physically, mentally and in-as memory.
This includes who we think we are.
Meditation and acceptance unveil awareness.
Awareness (the true sun we each and all are now) ... "melts" the frozen thinking, thus liberating the frozen awareness (thoughts, reactive emotions, memory based on thoughts and reactive emotions) ... and when this process completes, we call it enlightenment.
Enlightenment is the cessation of the agitation of the attachment of attention to limited thought-forms.
quote:
Same argument as "The stars are always there, but when the sun shines you can't see them". Depending on what kind of meditation is being performed, sometimes the best time to meditate is when the mind is really tired because it is more easily defeated at that point.
Another good point; thank you.
quote:
Don't we live in an ocean of unlimited prana and as we clear and purify our minds, have more access to that prana?
Yes .... though it might be more accurate to say/ask:
"Aren't we an ocean of the source of unlimited meta-prana, and as attachment of attention to limited thought-form is released, isn't our true nature as this ocean that is the source of unlimited meta-prana revealed?"
That answer is *YES*!!
And I can give you another source than this, for that statement, though I don't have immediate access to the specific reference right now.
The Yoga Spandakarika teaches:
Fatigue/depression (glani, in Sanskrit) occurs due solely to ignorance; when the misperception of partiality, in which that ignorance has its source, is released .... fatigue and depression disappear .... because their source (limited thought/misperception of partiality) has been dissolved, and so, fatigue and depression are no longer able to be projected ... because our true nature is the ocean that is Source.
quote:
Isn't the best time to perform self-inquiry after a deep meditation or upon return from the jhana states, when the mind has been cleared, stilled, focused and energized?
Yes .... and/or while in them (the ones involving form; analogous to savikalpa samadhi, in yoga) .... the light of the clear awareness we are shines most brightly when attention isn't invested/identified with thought form.
Another good point .... and again, I thank you!
quote:
BellaMente, eventually you will stabilize in that subtle vibration/purring in the body. It will grow and evolve the more you meditate, clear your body-mind and purify.. Wonderful!
:)
TI
TI is correct about this; I certainly concur.
My initial comments were intended to alleviate your concerns about possibly, somehow specifically losing kundalini during sleep .... in a way that is "more" or "different" than for an average yogi or yogini who is just starting out (relatively speaking).
The "bigger picture" is contained in this post, and hopefully will help to clarify my views on all this (kundalini/states of consciousness).
In general, I agree with everything TI said .... my basic point was to help you not to augment your experience in the direction of additional concerns or worries .... more mental form ... which, per this post, and both TI's comments and mine .... would be counter-productive.
Be easy with it all, be gentle with yourself; don't worry, be happy.
The results are infinite; and that infinity is what we each and all are, now.
The less conflicted conceptual thinking we have, the more we spontaneously liberate into-as awareness, now.
"Enlightenment is conflict-free living."
~Paramahamsa Nithyananda
(He has clarified that he is referring to the conflicts manifested by conditioned, agitated conceptual thinking; so-called "outer world conflicts" are simply projections of the condition of "inner conflict" -- the reality being that there is not actual "outer" nor "inner" .... those terms are purely conceptual.)
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Nov 01 2009 9:40:22 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 9:57:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
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I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
Hi Kirtanman,
Thank you for elaborating on all of that. Didn't mean to precipitate such a lengthy reponse, I hope you are a fast typist.
Yes, I believe Yogananda refers to the medulla as the 'mouth of God'...
:)
TI
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 1:01:43 PM
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| Wow thanks for all the input guys! I didn't mean to invoke such a dramatic issue, but nonetheless informative . |
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Kundalini during sleep
