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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:07:25 AM
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Hi All,
Fairly new to AYP, and have a few questions that have been nagging me, so here goes...
First, in DM, should I be aware of my breath? And is it natural for the mantra to follow my breath? I realise I should be favoring only the mantra, but I tend to synchronize my mantra with my breath, E.G. I never find myself breathing in on 'ay' and out of 'am'. I suspect I am suppose to be solely focused on the mantra, with a focus that means I don't hear my breath, but if someone could talk on this topic I'd appreciate it.
Second, I am a heavy cannabis user. I say heavy, but I do not find it interfering with my life, and I use a vaporizer so I do not inhale combusted material (no smoke for me thank you), leaving only the mental affect for me to worry about. Truthfully, I know I use it too much.
My question regarding cannabis is how well does it mix with meditation? I have heard others on this forum advising someone else to not have any THC in their system if they are doing any meditation, and I have a friend who after 8 years of heavy cannabis use and Buddhist meditation is now on medication because of the voices in his head.
I have also heard it said that entering the 'spiritual realms' while intoxicated (whatever the substance) can be dangerous.
I myself am currently NOT meditating on any day that I get high, but unfortunately, that doesn't leave any days for meditation. Mainly because of the advice I have read for other people in my situation, but I'd like to hear more.
For me, getting stoned and doing some spinal breathing brings what feels like greater focus to my practice, and truely, I'm intrigued by yogani's teaching of ecstatic connectivity because of my experiences while stoned and performing mudras and bandhas (before finding AYP). I do worry however that the greater focus is coming at an expense, and I'd like to know more.
I know some will automatically advise breaking the habit, but at the moment I'm really enjoying the 'non-striving' teachings I've found from others. For me, everything becomes easy when I have understanding, the knowledge that lights my path makes it easy to walk. This is my sincere request for more knowledge on these topics.
love you all.
Noel. |
Edited by - NinjaNoel on Oct 20 2009 10:08:09 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 11:18:23 AM
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Hiiiya NinjaNoel!
Welcome to the AYP forums!
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
First, in DM, should I be aware of my breath?
Short answer.....No. Not on purpose anyways. Being aware of the breath is pranayam more then meditation....at least in AYP.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
And is it natural for the mantra to follow my breath?
Natural? Well, when you are starting out I think you could say that. It is just a phase though and it will pass if you continue with the practice with regularity for any length of time. I remember when I first started out with AYP Deep Meditation....I had the same problem. The instruction here is to allow what happens naturally to happen.....if that means that the mantra syncs up with the breath, then allow that....but don't force it. Ideally you will not have the mantra syncing up with the breath....in time you may notice that your breath gets shallower and shallower and may even stop from time to time during DM. If you need to sync the mantra up with the breath and the breath isn't there....well, then what.....just allow the mantra to come as it comes naturally, and don't try to have it come at any specific intervals. What happens is what "should" happen.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I realise I should be favoring only the mantra, but I tend to synchronize my mantra with my breath, E.G. I never find myself breathing in on 'ay' and out of 'am'. I suspect I am suppose to be solely focused on the mantra, with a focus that means I don't hear my breath, but if someone could talk on this topic I'd appreciate it.
Basically see above. Don't force the mantra to be Ay on the in breath and Am on the outbreath, but if that happens for now, that's fine. Allow it to change as it does though. Don't get too comfortable with any specifics of DM....be flexible and allow the meditation to take the direction it needs to.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Second, I am a heavy cannabis user. I say heavy, but I do not find it interfering with my life, and I use a vaporizer so I do not inhale combusted material (no smoke for me thank you), leaving only the mental affect for me to worry about. Truthfully, I know I use it too much.
Been there.....I smoked a quarter ounce of supreme bud every day for a decade and a half.....up until less then a year ago.....due to AYPractices, so.....if you feel you smoke too much, perhaps you have come to the right place...it was for me. And I wasn't just a "pot-head"....when I came to AYP I had been addicted to opiates for just under a decade and had been on a 90mg daily dose of methadone for 4 years. I have been clean from opiates for over 1 year now.....absolutely 100% a result of the AYPractices. Personally I don't find a little marijuana use (with proper intention) a problem at all...others have different opinions, and that's cool.....but in my experience and from my perspective, it isn't a problem if you don't make it a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
My question regarding cannabis is how well does it mix with meditation?
Better for some then for others. For some it can be an aid to reaching inner silence, and for others it can be a complete distraction from inner silence. If you can reach inner silence without any aids, well....then why would you use an aid? If you are of a disposition that requires an aid to sit quietly for a half an hour (like perhaps you have AD(H)D, or perhaps you are used to using large amounts of cannibas on a regular basis), then perhaps weed may help you get the hang of meditation. Everyone is different and there are no absolutes.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I have heard others on this forum advising someone else to not have any THC in their system if they are doing any meditation, and I have a friend who after 8 years of heavy cannabis use and Buddhist meditation is now on medication because of the voices in his head.
Everyone has their own opinions on this. Most are uneducated opinions IMO, hahaha, but that is neither here nor there. Most people who say that you should never meditate if you are stoned, have very little experience with (the proper use of) marijuana IMO. Personally, if I get stoned, the only thing I want to do is meditate, and those meditations are often incredibly deep and thought-less. I know others that find it way too distracting because it can open the third eye and there can be a lot of "phenomenon" that takes place. Some can't handle that.... Personally all my meditations are like that anyways, so it isn't so distracting for me. The most distracting part of meditating stoned (for me) is the physically itchy third eye and crown sensations.
But with all that said, it should be mentioned that if you don't know how you react to cannibas already, it is probably not advisable to hit the bong and go sit for meditation. I had a friend who after eating some hash in Thailand at a music festival, woke up in Thai jail with schizophrenia.....he required heavy medication to control it for several years afterwards (this friend also cured himself of schizoprenia with Kundalini Yoga which he is now a teacher of). So marijuana (THC) can have different effects for different people. My advice is that if you aren't a heavy user already, don't get into it....and if you are a heavy user, meditation, pranayam and self inquiry can be a great way of reducing your use and eventually eliminating it from your toolbox.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I have also heard it said that entering the 'spiritual realms' while intoxicated (whatever the substance) can be dangerous.
Bullpucky IMO Ibogaine, Ayahausca, Psylocibin Mushrooms, and Marijuana are all intoxicants that have been used for millenia specifically FOR entering the spiritual realms. And there is a LOT of (spiritual and otherwise) knowledge that has been gleaned from people who were in the "spiritual realms" due to enthoegenic intoxication. I would disagree with whoever said the above.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I myself am currently NOT meditating on any day that I get high, but unfortunately, that doesn't leave any days for meditation. Mainly because of the advice I have read for other people in my situation, but I'd like to hear more.
IME it doesn't have to be one or the other. If you can't stop smoking long enough to meditate, then I would meditate despite smoking...it may even help you quit (if you wnat to).
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
For me, getting stoned and doing some spinal breathing brings what feels like greater focus to my practice, and truely, I'm intrigued by yogani's teaching of ecstatic connectivity because of my experiences while stoned and performing mudras and bandhas (before finding AYP). I do worry however that the greater focus is coming at an expense, and I'd like to know more.
I think it is fairly well known and agreed upon that marijuana can (and often does) increase the "energy sensitivity" of a practitioner. Getting used to those sensations (expecting them to be there for every meditation) can be a pitfall to progress though...especially when those sensations are a result of being stoned. It can become difficult to have what feels like a "successful" meditation when not stoned if you get used to (and expect) these sensations.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I know some will automatically advise breaking the habit, but at the moment I'm really enjoying the 'non-striving' teachings I've found from others.
Trying to push things away only keeps them closer. I suggest that you continue trying to cut down on your intake, but start a daily practice of Deep Meditation. Once you have a month or two of regular Deep Meditation practice under your belt I would add in 5 minutes or so of Spinal Breathing Pranayama. See how that goes for a while. And continue trying to cut down your intake, but not being forceful with it. When the time arrives for you to drop the habit it will happen naturally. That is my opnion anyways.
I just yesterday wrote a post describing a technique that I used to help me rid myself of my marijuana addiction. You can read that post here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=5103#58669
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
For me, everything becomes easy when I have understanding, the knowledge that lights my path makes it easy to walk. This is my sincere request for more knowledge on these topics.
Well, hope this helps a little. Let me know if you have anymore questions....good luck.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 20 2009 11:26:05 AM |
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:02:31 PM
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Hi CarsonZi,
Thanks for the reply. It was exactly what I wanted to hear. :)
quote:
knowledge that has been gleaned from people who were in the "spiritual realms" due to enthoegenic intoxication.
I have heard of entheogens, and wouldn't mind trying some mushrooms or Ayahausca (the more natural and unprocessed the better), but I've always been of the opinion that those sorts of things 'throw' or 'thrust' you into realms that you wouldn't normally be able to reach, but AYP is all about 'strengthening' or own 'powers' to reach these realms (please excuse the vague phrasing), and once there it is better if one is there under one's 'own steam' so to speak.
quote:
marijuana can (and often does) increase the "energy sensitivity" of a practitioner
This matches my experience. By the sounds of things I shouldn't get disheartened if I'm not as 'sharp' sober as I am stoned. I'll bear that in mind. I was a bit worried that progress while I'm stoned may not equate to progress while I'm sober, but I don't get that impression from your post.
It is very refreshing to be able to converse on these sorts of topics and get advice that isn't just condensing. Thank you for sharing.
I have been toying with the idea of waking up early for SBP and DM, and you've given me peace of mind that my cannabis habit wont have overly adverse affects if I do start.
Thanks again.
Noel. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:04:42 PM
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Hi Noel......
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Thanks for the reply. It was exactly what I wanted to hear. :)
Perfect....glad to help.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I have heard of entheogens, and wouldn't mind trying some mushrooms or Ayahausca (the more natural and unprocessed the better), but I've always been of the opinion that those sorts of things 'throw' or 'thrust' you into realms that you wouldn't normally be able to reach, but AYP is all about 'strengthening' or own 'powers' to reach these realms (please excuse the vague phrasing), and once there it is better if one is there under one's 'own steam' so to speak.
Basically I would agree with your opinion that entheogens "thrust" one into states of being you wouldn't normally be able to reach (as someone living a "fully-attached-to-duality" type of life)...but that is not always a "bad" thing.... I wouldn't necessarily advice you (or anyone) to do entheogens, but if you have the inclination, I personally think it is more appropriate to educate people then to prohibit use or try to instill fear. Education over fear-mongering all the way IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
This matches my experience. By the sounds of things I shouldn't get disheartened if I'm not as 'sharp' sober as I am stoned.
I used to have a similar disposition.....sober I couldn't focus on one thing for more then a millisecond....stoned I was able to concentrate and focus much better. (ie. in grade 12 some friends and I were waiting to take our Math 30 Diploma exam....I rolled and smoked a huge [even by my standards] joint right before and asked some friends if they wanted any....a few chose to partake...those that did, all failed except for me.....I got 95% or something....highest mark in the class. The exact same thing happened with my English diploma exam....I got the highest recorded mark in my province in history: 99%...and I wrote on Othello and we had all been advised to write on anything but Shakespeare as we would be slaughtered by the markers if we did) Not trying to say anything with this other then: everyone reacts differently to things.....not just drugs....some people react differently to spiritual practices, some react differently to sexual relationships, some react differently to drugs....nothing is set in stone and noone will know what is best/appropriate for you except you.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I'll bear that in mind. I was a bit worried that progress while I'm stoned may not equate to progress while I'm sober, but I don't get that impression from your post.
The progress you make while stoned, will be one thing....the progress you make sober will be another. You can't make sober progress if you are stoned....and eventually we all need to lose our "crutches" and learn to walk on our own two feet. All I was saying was that you shouldn't let your marijuana habit keep you from doing the practices that may help you release that habit. If you do nothing will ever change.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
It is very refreshing to be able to converse on these sorts of topics and get advice that isn't just condensing. Thank you for sharing.
My pleasure....I am here to help in any way I can/am needed.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I have been toying with the idea of waking up early for SBP and DM, and you've given me peace of mind that my cannabis habit wont have overly adverse affects if I do start.
I think getting up early (and not smoking before) to practice is a GREAT idea. Get the ball rolling and see where it goes.
All the best!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 20 2009 1:06:33 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:34:29 PM
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Hi Noel,
In my opinion and from my own experience, regular pot usage is very damaging. In terms of purification, putting drugs into the brain and body doesn't help. If you have read much of Yogani's writings, he stresses purification, and i am afraid that drugs have an opposite effect.
Now, that is not to say that others may have no problems smoking and practising meditation etc or even get any mental problems from it. I know a guy who smokes a lot of it regularly and he told me just last night that he gets no problems with it. It comes down to the person's mental makeup and brain etc.
I had a lot of experiences with pot, mudras too. However, it has damaged my brain. What you definitely do not want to do is miss sleep because of enjoying being high. Sleep deprivation, or insomnia, can wreak massive havoc on the nervous system etc.
I don't hear voices and i never have (except for very recently as a by-product of meditation, psychic phenomena etc). But i got full blown delusions, perceptual changes like hallucinations, and mucked up interpretations.
All i would say is that it is psychologically addictive and addictions are bad. Once yoga starts its work on you i doubt you would even consider taking it. Why poison your brain and mind in the meantime? Get over it now, especially if it does lead to nasty experiences in the future. I have cut it out of my life gradually, and i prefer being sober these days. The clarity of mind is much better now.
One more thing. THis has been mentioned over the years here at the forums but don't compare drugs and meditation. It is a dead end. |
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 3:12:59 PM
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Hi all,
I'm on my iPhone this time around so please forgive any typos. Lol
Gumbi, thank you for sharing, And I'd like to know more. How has it damaged your brain? You make it sound like it was mostly sleep deprevation? Please elaborate. :) Also, By the sound of it your experiences are not far from hearing voices, does this sound fair?
Something got me thinking from a book by Rudolf Steiner entitled 'Higher knowledge and it's attainment' where he suggests a set of exercises, and with mindfulness and a non-criticizing attitude he claims you can cultivate 'organs of spiritual perception', but he also warns that without 'right practice' you won't achieve 'right perception', and what u do perceive may be warped or twisted in someway, which is his warning against practising whilst intoxicated.
Gumbi, it makes sense to me from what you say that you may have been entertaining spirituality whilst most of yourself was not ready for the experiences you were having, almost as if you'd grown some eyes that you had no control over and perhaps was showing you things u didn't ask for. Does that sound feasable? If that's the case it would not bode well for stoned meditation. :(
I'd like to hear more from gumbi!
CarsonZi, I didn't understand your distinction between 'stoned progress' and 'sober progress'? Is it not one path I walk? Using that analogy, the path of inner liberation, perhaps running does not improve my walking skills, but both move me along? I wouldn't want too try making the actual comparison to running and walking, but merely use them as different 'modes' in this case.
Yes, early morning sounds best, I've heard that waking early, the same time every morning is best practice, or at least someone thought so.
Love you all
Noel.
P.s. I'll prob only reply in the morning, iPhone is not meant for this sort of use, but I can read your replies! :) |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 3:25:46 PM
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Hi Noel
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
what u do perceive may be warped or twisted in someway, which is his warning against practising whilst intoxicated.
IMO it doesn't really matter what you "percieve" in practice....it isn't about percieving at all.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
CarsonZi, I didn't understand your distinction between 'stoned progress' and 'sober progress'?
I apologize for not being more clear in what I was meaning...I will try to clarify.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Is it not one path I walk?
Absolutely....there is only one path for you and you are always on it.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Using that analogy, the path of inner liberation, perhaps running does not improve my walking skills, but both move me along? I wouldn't want too try making the actual comparison to running and walking, but merely use them as different 'modes' in this case.
Using the walking/running analogy, what I was trying to get across was that before you learn to walk you learn to crawl, before you learn to run you learn to walk. One step at a time. Meaning that step one would be to start a consistent meditation practice, that is crawling.....then you can entertain the idea of losing addictions etc....one foot before the other.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Yes, early morning sounds best, I've heard that waking early, the same time every morning is best practice, or at least someone thought so.
That seems to work best for me too....but remember that if you can, it is best to practice twice daily....once in the morning before breakfast and once in the late afternoon before dinner.....this seems to give the best results.
Best of luck!
Love,
Carson
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 5:27:00 PM
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I've not seen any scenary yet, but I hope when I do it gives me an idea of where I'm journeying too! :) just saying.
Lol, yes I hear yogani in the audiobook saying we aren't actually going anywhere, also twice daily practice of spinal breathing and deep meditation.
Perhaps DM should be avoided whilst under the influence, but the next morning I can again make sober progress! But what of Spinal Breathing? How would you mix them? Lol, for want of a better way of asking.
love you all
Noel |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 6:44:02 PM
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NOel, it is late for me, and i am going to bed now. But no, i never heard any voices as part of my mental challenges. Only recently when i have been meditating more do i get "voices" and they are not pathological, they are psychic phenomena. I have spoken about this in the post in satsang cafe recently. PLease look there if you want.
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 07:56:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
My question regarding cannabis is how well does it mix with meditation?
If you can remain absolutely aware while on heavy cannabis... you are doing meditation.
Tantrics use light drugs, heavy drugs and then even poison. The only purpose behind this is to stay AWARE no matter how imbalanced/high their body or mind tries to be. With this practice, a moment comes when even drinking poison does not effect them at all.
Normally when you are drugged, you start becoming unaware. But with practice, a person can increase his mental strength/abilities... no drug will effect him.
A person who can remain aware even on heavy drugs, he can remain aware even in sleep. And that is a major step in meditation. These persons do not become addicts. Its just a practice that once mastered, has no use and is given up.
WARNING: This tantric method is not advisable due to health/medical concerns. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 08:45:22 AM
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When it comes to the voices in your head, you already have this voice in you, even while you are reading this, just watch closely, it is bubbling all the time. People who never realize this thought-voice in their head, which tells them what to do moment for moment start getting more aware of exactly this voice and thinkg they have shizofrenic problems =P The truth is and you can verify it everytime, you can listen to the voice in your head right now and see, that you are not the voice, but something unmoving and present, before, while the bubbling and afterwards.
We all "saw" what happened to CarsonZi over the months of practice. He also started practicing while continuing his usage, but with time lost the need because of his natural inner unforlding. In your case, just live the way you do and start meditation without fear. In time you will see how it goes anyway. You don't have to worry now, that you once will "need" to skip the weed. If you like sweet candies, eat them. Perhaps, one day, you will eat some special honey which is much more delicious and at the same time more healthy. When that time comes, dropping the candy is not a pain, it's natural. |
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 10:29:15 AM
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Hi All,
I am especially interested in people's experience of these things, and thats why I ask about the voices. I like to analyse things, connect the dots with all the info I find and see where stuff takes me. When my friend told me about his voices, I immediately assumed it was something that was being misinterpreted as something bad, when really I think 'more info needed' would be my constant mode of operation.
Saying these things on this forum I feel like I'm talking to others with far more experience in these matters, who may easily understand the incorrect assumptions I am working under, but at the same time, AYP methods don't have a monopoly on truth, and others are hinting at the type of reality, with different techiniques. This suggests to be that my most basis assumption can be 'there is more there is that can be discerned than by my senses alone'.
I know yogani talks alot about 'scenery' without talking directly about what that may be, but I'm intrigued, and also a bit worried that I may experience my own version of reality that no one else could ever verify for me. :S I suspect this may be why yogani only talks about methods rather than the scenary those methods bring, discernment brings distinction and separation, and all is one.
Anyway, sat in bed this morning at 6:30 (or just thereafter) and did some SBP and DM. Now I just need to form that habit and I can almost call myself a yogin. lol.
love you all
Noel. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 11:37:05 AM
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Hi Noel
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I am especially interested in people's experience of these things, and thats why I ask about the voices.
Any particular reason you are so interested in people's experiences with hearing voices? Just because of your friend who is now on meds?
I still hear voices and have visions in meditation sometimes, but this is what Yogani is talking about when he talks about "scenery".....Scenery is bodily sensations, voices, visions, all the different experiences you can have in meditation. The idea of not focusing on the scenery is because the experiences we have in meditation are not important. They are not the benefits of a fruitful sadhana. The benefits of an effective sadhana are seen OUTSIDE of meditation in your daily life. An abiding peace, and abiding stillness within, a surprising lack of suffering etc etc etc....these are the fruits of an effective meditation practice. Seeing visions, hearing voices, feeling the chakras spinning, all these things are distractions or "scenery"....something to be noticed and then let go of. Focusing on these things will only stall forward progress.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I like to analyse things, connect the dots with all the info I find and see where stuff takes me.
The mind can never solve problems created by the mind. Sometimes dots just don't connect in any "logical" way.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Saying these things on this forum I feel like I'm talking to others with far more experience in these matters, who may easily understand the incorrect assumptions I am working under, but at the same time, AYP methods don't have a monopoly on truth, and others are hinting at the type of reality, with different techiniques. This suggests to be that my most basis assumption can be 'there is more there is that can be discerned than by my senses alone'.
No, the AYP methods don't have a monopoly on Truth....nor do they claim to. Truth (IMO) is individual....what may be Truth for you may not be Truth for someone else....it may not be Truth for you from one moment to the next...things constantly change. So perhaps the only "Truth" is that Truth is constantly changing? What the AYP methods offer is an ever increasing amount of clarity....an ability to recognize Truth when you see/feel/experience it. To me Truth is undefinable. As soon as you try to define it it starts to lose some the "Truthful-ness" as words can never really do justice to it. My experience of Truth has been facilitated by AYP. Other's have found their Truth through other practices/methods, but for me and many others AYP works.
Oh....yeah, there is much more to be discerned then what the 5 senses can interpret.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I know yogani talks alot about 'scenery' without talking directly about what that may be, but I'm intrigued, and also a bit worried that I may experience my own version of reality that no one else could ever verify for me.
You already are. Your reality is like no other and validation is neither necessary nor possible. We are all walking our own paths and living our own realities. No need to be worried, you've been doing ok this far haven't you?
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I suspect this may be why yogani only talks about methods rather than the scenary those methods bring, discernment brings distinction and separation, and all is one.
Yogani, from what I gather, doesn't give much credence to scenery for a few reasons I think (I think....I can't speak for Yogani)....
1.What one person experiences in meditation is not what someone else will experience in meditation.
2.The experiences in meditation don't really mean anything....they are just signposts along the way and they can be there one day and not the next.
3.Talking about experiences can make other practitioners feel like they aren't doing something right if they aren't getting the same experiences and that is not true.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Anyway, sat in bed this morning at 6:30 (or just thereafter) and did some SBP and DM. Now I just need to form that habit and I can almost call myself a yogin. lol.
You're on your way! Keep it up!
Love,
Carson |
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 12:28:42 PM
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CarsonZi,
I ask about the voices etc because I am concerned with validation and verification. But saying this, I do understand all you've said, and as I've said, trying to classify things will only separate ideas which soon enough separates people.
I've grown up in a fundamentalist home, and at first I threw off all thoughts of religion and spirituality, but I've mellowed a bit since then, and after listening to Alan Watts talk about eastern religions, and reading stuff like 'The Ra Material' http://www.lawofone.info/, it's kinda shown me that people actually do think beyond our reality, and even beyond our planet.
I'm also very interested when someone says 'follow these instructions and get these results', like Yogani has, and as I mentioned, Rudolf Steiner (old german guy, most of his writings are available free online). But to me, these exercises imply a version of reality that has certain implications. I'm waffling a bit, but I would like to hear more from anyone.
Unfortunately, when I threw off religion and spirituality, it was because I was too much of a skeptic, where is the evidence (i'd ask)? So a more moderate approach appears to me to be opened minded skepticism, if it makes sense I may believe it, but me believing something means I'm always looking for validation, and not clinging to those beliefs if they ever prove unfruitful. Obviously this prob all makes sense to you all, but thought I'd just give some background as to why I'm so curious about 'scenery'
love you all,
Noel.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 12:55:45 PM
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Hi Noel.....
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I ask about the voices etc because I am concerned with validation and verification. But saying this, I do understand all you've said, and as I've said, trying to classify things will only separate ideas which soon enough separates people.
Validation and verification can never really happen. Your experiences can only be valid to you, and noone can verify your experiences. All we can do is share, be open and love each other unconditionally. There is nothing to be "concerned" about.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I've grown up in a fundamentalist home, and at first I threw off all thoughts of religion and spirituality, but I've mellowed a bit since then, and after listening to Alan Watts talk about eastern religions, and reading stuff like 'The Ra Material' http://www.lawofone.info/, it's kinda shown me that people actually do think beyond our reality, and even beyond our planet.
I too grew up in a fundamentalist (Christian) home. This too threw me off of religion and was the cause of me running to the opposite extreme and classifying myself as a "Spiritual Anarchist". But I too have mellowed and can now recognize that religion fills a void for some people (at least for a while). It seems only temporary to me, as it seems that religion becomes a stepping stone to individual spirituality eventually, but who are we to force evolution/progress (as we see it) on another. Our reality is our reality and it isn't necessarily going to fit for anyone other then us.
I also am a big fan of the Ra Material....I think I am the only other one who has even mentioned it on the AYP forums.....I find that I resonate with what is said there very much, and for me the book(s) were a great comfort....like a warm blanket on a cold winter night (there's that need for validation again verification again! )
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I'm also very interested when someone says 'follow these instructions and get these results', like Yogani has......
I don't think Yogani has ever said: "If you do AYP you will get this this and this experience/result"...... The AYP system has been fairly well tested over the years (by Yogani and others since he started the AYP sites) and has been the cause of some pretty remarkable results. Yogani never said "Do AYP and you will be able to rid yourself of a methadone addiction faster then modern medicine says is possible" yet that was a result for me. Neither I nor Yogani are preaching that AYP is a spiritual (or otherwise) "cure-all", but the practices certainly do seem to have some "general" effects....those being the development of "inner silence", the awakening of "ecstatic conductivity" and the merging of the two in the heart resulting in "outpouring Divine Love". This seems to be the common results of consistant AYP practice over time. No one is making any claims, but if past history and experimentation is any indication of what can be extrapolated into the future, then the above is what you have to look forward to with the consistant (and properly managed) application of the AYPractices.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
But to me, these exercises imply a version of reality that has certain implications.
Like what specifically?
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Unfortunately, when I threw off religion and spirituality, it was because I was too much of a skeptic, where is the evidence (i'd ask)? So a more moderate approach appears to me to be opened minded skepticism, if it makes sense I may believe it, but me believing something means I'm always looking for validation, and not clinging to those beliefs if they ever prove unfruitful.
Well, I would suggest suspending disbelief (actually how about suspending ALL beliefs ) for a while and give the AYPractices a chance. Only the personal application of the practices as perscribed will be able to tell you for sure whether or not the practices do what you expect them to, for you. Personally I would let go of the expectations for a bit, give the practices a consistant 6 months of use (or more), and then re-evaluate where you are at at that time.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
Obviously this prob all makes sense to you all, but thought I'd just give some background as to why I'm so curious about 'scenery'
It's all good. Hope this clarifies things a bit for you.
Love,
Carson |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 2:03:51 PM
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I think with yoga you have found something, that was tested throughout thousands of years and something you can verify on your own. There are claims in yoga, cause and effect, which has been proved to be true over and over again from people everywhre in the world and in every time.
Some of them CarsonZi already mentioned, there are also effects that manifest, like heightened sensual perception, increasing health and so on. Those who are through it and enjoy the lovegame with god know that the rest is not worth mentioned and focused on unnessecarily.
In the end you will have to find it out yourself anyway, yoga is just a systemtic and more controllable version of help, which gives precise results in relation to the different techniques. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 2:16:31 PM
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Skepticism is warranted when there is a reason to investigate the reality of something. It is open-mindedness until the data is got. Inner energy movements and mental psychic phenomena are real, not fake, and i know and you know because the data is there. If the data wasn't there, we would be searching for nothing, and nothing doesn't exist.
Hearing inner voices is not a special ability except that some people might have one psychic sense more predominent than another. YOu might FEEL, or SEE. I don't understand where the confusion about this is really.
If you want proof of clairaudience, you need to focus on that and meditate. You will never know unless you meditate. I think it is a fairly common experience among meditators but people don't either recognise it or want to talk about it.
There is no use being skeptical when the skepticism is closed minded from the very beginning. That is simply illogical.
Why don't you try to keep an open mind and perhaps go so far as accepting there are things you may never know? Just like i cannot know you as you know you?
What do you want? Have you asked yourself this question yet? Do you want spirituality or matter? It would help if you could tell us, me, what you are aiming for. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 2:29:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If the data wasn't there, we would be searching for nothing, and nothing doesn't exist.
Nothing is the only thing that exists.
Love,
Carson |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:33:25 PM
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| So if it is no thing, what then? =P Seemingly not describable in words |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 6:25:18 PM
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| Right, including what you just said. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 7:06:19 PM
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| Experiment. Smoke pot and meditate. Then, go without pot for a few weeks so that it clears out of your system and meditate. See which one is better. I gave up drugs and alcohol so that the clarity of my meditation would be pristine. My experience is that inner peace is obstructed by intoxicants. I've used them all... |
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NinjaNoel
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 7:12:55 PM
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Hi All,
Thank you for your replies, I appreciate your time.
CarsonZi, you ask what all this implies to me... I suppose I connect dots between SBP and chakras, also betwen DM and altered brainstates. That's sort of thing really. I find the more I look, the more stuff 'fits' and helps me understand each topic better. And throw in some law of one into the mix and I can build myself a wonderful fantasy world. That said, not much of that really matters, but I suppose it's as if I'm constantly trying to prove a hypothesis, or thnk up a better one that fits all the data.
Gumbi, I stared this topic because I'd really like to hear peoples oppinions on mixing cannabis and Ayp. Also, from your first post you made it sound like cannabis or drug use brought on 'scenery' that you neither asked for or appreciated, but then you also sound like ayp has borne fruit for you, and I'm vry intersted in how the scenry has changed to you. I'm sorry I mentioned voices before, it's very cliched, my friend also mentionnd visions of murding his family :(, but my first thought when he told me these things was that it was spiritual problems, but with no real experiences I can't actually know anything.
And after a few comments for me to keep an open mind, I will mention I'm already sold on ayp, surely contemplating letting ayp come between me and my favourite herb was your first clue :p Yogani has been the first to provide such clear instructions on how to make progress. But my open mind is still thinking about other stuff while I try and persaude my ingrained habits to change to make some room for some ayp :)
love you all
Noel.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2009 : 11:56:39 AM
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Hi NinjaNoel.....
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
CarsonZi, you ask what all this implies to me... I suppose I connect dots between SBP and chakras, also betwen DM and altered brainstates. That's sort of thing really.
Well I would suggest that the less expectations and "restrictions/constrictions" you put on a practice the more actual results you will get. The party line here at AYP is to do your practices like you brush your teeth....without a second thought. Just do it, expect nothing, and reap the benefits. That's my experience anyways. I wasn't expecting to be able to get off of opiates, I had actually resigned myself to being an opiate addict for the rest of my life, and likely if I had had the expectation of being able to get clean using AYPractices then I likely would still be addicted. Leave your expectations at the door of the meditation room....you can pick them up again if you want when you leave.
quote:
Originally posted by NinjaNoel
I find the more I look, the more stuff 'fits' and helps me understand each topic better. And throw in some law of one into the mix and I can build myself a wonderful fantasy world. That said, not much of that really matters, but I suppose it's as if I'm constantly trying to prove a hypothesis, or thnk up a better one that fits all the data.
Have you ever tried just letting go of trying to understand everything? Have you ever thought about the freedom that could come if you just let things be as they are and stopped trying to put "rhyme or reason" to everything? All thoughts/ideas/beliefs need to be let go of before you can truly Know. It can be incredibly free-ing to stop trying to understand everything with your mind and just embrace everything with your heart.
Wishing you the best.
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 22 2009 11:58:57 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2009 : 1:02:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
If the data wasn't there, we would be searching for nothing, and nothing doesn't exist.
Nothing is the only thing that exists.
Love,
Carson
Are you really sure about that ?
We can talk about it, but cannot imagine it, cannot experience it. Nothing is a human concept for that which we cannot see, feel,hear, touch, smell or taste.
Nothing, or zero, mathmatically is the addition of +infinity and -infinity, so zero contains all numbers, every number, infinite possibility. So maybe nothing is everything, the big number, containing everything and that something is actually the smaller of two.
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A few questions from a newbie on Deep Meditation
