|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 04:50:21 AM
|
Question : When I meditate I feel a certain bliss at times. On such occasions, should I ask myself `Who is it that experiences this bliss?'
Ramana Maharshi : If it is the real bliss of the Self that is experienced, that is, if the mind has really merged in the Self, such a doubt will not arise at all. The question itself shows real bliss was not reached. All doubts willl cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. There is no use removing doubts one by one. If we clear one doubt, another doubt will arise and there will be no end of doubts. But if, by seeking the source of the doubter, the doubter is found to be really non-existent, then all doubts will cease.
Question : Sometimes I hear internal sounds. What should I do when such things happen? Ramana Maharshi : Whatever may happen, keep up the enquiry into the self, asking `Who hears these sounds?' till the reality is reached.
Question : Sometimes, while in meditation, I feel blissful and tears come to my eyes. At other times I do not have them. Why is that?
Ramana Maharshi : Bliss is a thing which is always there and is not something which comes and goes. That which comes and goes is a creation of the mind and you should not worry about it.
Question :The bliss causes a physical thrill in the body, but when it disappears I feel dejected and desire to have the experience over again. Why?
Ramana Maharshi : You admit that you were there both when the blissful feeling was experienced and when it was not. If you realize that `you' properly, those experiences will be of no account.
Question : When I reach the thoughtless stage in my sadhana I enjoy a certain pleasure, but sometimes I also experience a vague fear which I cannot properly describe.
Ramana Maharshi : You may experience anything, but you should never rest content with that. Whether you feel pleasure or fear, ask yourself who feels the pleasure or the fear and so carry on the sadhana until pleasure and fear are both transcended, till all duality ceases and till the reality alone remains.
There is nothing wrong in such things happening or being experienced, but you must never stop at that. For instance, you must never rest content with the pleasure of laya (temporary abeyance of the mind) experienced when thought is quelled, you must press on until all duality ceases.
Question : How does one get rid of fear ?
Ramana Maharshi :What is fear ? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees things separate from the Self ? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is nothing external. For anything external to oneself implies the existence of the seer within. Seeking it there will eliminate doubt and fear. Not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it.
Question : When I try to be without all thoughts, I pass into sleep. What should I do about it?
Ramana Maharshi : Once you go to sleep you can do nothing in that state. But while you are awake, try to keep away all thoughts. Why think about sleep? Even that is a thought, is it not? If you are able to be without any thought while you are awake, that is enough. When you pass into sleep the state which you were in before falling asleep will continue when you wake up. You will continue from where you left off when you fell into slumber. So long as there are thoughts of activity there will also be sleep. Thought and sleep are counterparts of one and the same thing.
We should not sleep too much or go without it altogether, but sleep only moderately. To prevent too much sleep, we must try and have no thoughts or chalana [movement of the mind], we must eat only sattvic food and that only in moderate measure, and not indulge in too much physical activity. The more we control thought, activity and food the more we shall be able to control sleep. But moderation ought to be the rule, as explained in the Gita, for the seeker on the path.
Sleep is the first obstacle, as explained in the books, for all sadhaks. The second obstacle is said to be vikshepa or the sense objects of the world which divert one's attention. The third is said to be kashaya or thoughts in the mind about previous experiences with sense objects. The fourth, ananda [bliss], is also called an obstacle, because in that state a feeling of separation from the source of ananda, enabling the enjoyer to say `I am enjoying ananda', is present. Even this has to be surmounted. The final stage of samadhi has to be reached in which one becomes ananda or one with reality. In this state the duality of enjoyer and enjoyment ceases in the ocean of sat-chit-ananda or the Self.
Question : So one should not try to perpetuate blissful or ecstatic states?
Ramana Maharshi :The final obstacle in meditation is ecstasy; you feel great bliss and happiness and want to stay in that ecstasy. Do not yield to it but pass on to the next stage which is great calm. The calm is higher than ecstasy and it merges into samadhi. Successful samadhi causes a waking sleep state to supervene. In that state you know that you are always consciousness, for consciousness is your nature. Actually, one is always in samadhi but one does not know it. To know it all one has to do is to remove the obstacles. |
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 06:14:01 AM
|
| That book helped me to understand, it explains things at whatever point you happen to be. A good compass. |
 |
|
|
AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 10:40:58 AM
|
| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 10:41:33 AM
|
Hi All:
Very good, but such inquiries should not be favored during AYP deep meditation or other sitting practice procedures. Before or after, but not during. This would be diluting the cultivation of abiding inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, the very foundation of effective (relational) self-inquiry.
The hour or so we spend in structured sitting practices each day sets the stage for clear experience and understanding of our non-dual nature (radiantly free Self) in everything else we do.
An effective integration of practices (involving mind) means doing each one in its own time, not at the same time. 
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2009 : 3:17:57 PM
|
thank you for dropping by Karl.
and i am guilty as charge Yogani, some of these inquiries were becoming a part of my DM whilst in samadhi.
thank you for pointing this out it's a good advice.
namaste |
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2009 : 8:19:57 PM
|
quote:
"Put the life-active prana at the key point,
the mind-essence in its natural state,
and the consciousness under self-examination." --Milarepa
The three elements of yoga.
|
|
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2009 : 8:23:54 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
Actually, one is always in samadhi but one does not know it. To know it all one has to do is to remove the obstacles.
Thanks, Brother Ananda!
That entire post // overview from Ramana was awesome.
The two sentences quoted above are the key to everything (as I'm guessing you know, per your inclusion of it .... this comment is just for anyone who may benefit from it.)
Samadhi is just another term for the clear awareness we actually are, now.
Awareness of wholeness is reality.
Misperception of partiality is dreaming.
Misperception of partiality happens within awareness of wholeness, but the misperception veils conscious awareness of reality.
When conceptual, discursive thinking is dropped, enlightenment shines freely.
Enlightenment is real.
Enlightenment is all that's real.
Enlightenment is not what you think.
Kirtanman |
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2009 : 1:17:40 PM
|
thank you for chiming in brother Konshok.
|
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2009 : 1:18:58 PM
|
K-mannnnnnnn
much love to your joyful radiant person. |
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2009 : 2:54:37 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
thank you for chiming in brother Konshok.
The chime is that one must integrate the prana at the key point, AS WELL AS, release the mind into the natural state while engaging in self-inquiry.
The prana at the key point is basically the winds in the central channel. That's the AYP approach and the general approach of tantra.
Now there are methods considered "higher" because they don't mention the first element and deal with natural state and inquiry.
But these "higher" methods don't skip the first element. The element is assumed, integrated, unconsciously and habitually already happening, while relaxing into the natural state while examining.
No one ever realizes anything without experience with the channels first.
Essentially, one must trust the inner guru to know if one has developed the degree of internal introspective sensitivity to dissolve with winds in their place using only the mind and inquiry, or if one should control the breath and do visualizations. |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2009 : 5:16:09 PM
|
I agree. Jnana yoga properly practised by 'a ripe devotee' will bring on the kundalini experience, and with perseverance will ultimately resolve and integrate it. But it takes a strong capacity for mental discrimination and surrender to allow this to happen via jnana-marga alone.
chinna |
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2009 : 6:36:13 PM
|
| For those sincerely interested in non-dual yogis of high accomplishment, I strongly suggest getting hands on a copy of "The Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa." Milarepa's songs, one after another, are incredible discourses of the "advaita" yogi's path from basic realization to full enlightenment. |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 08:00:40 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
thank you for chiming in brother Konshok.
The chime is that one must integrate the prana at the key point, AS WELL AS, release the mind into the natural state while engaging in self-inquiry.
The prana at the key point is basically the winds in the central channel. That's the AYP approach and the general approach of tantra.
......
Essentially, one must trust the inner guru to know if one has developed the degree of internal introspective sensitivity to dissolve with winds in their place using only the mind and inquiry, or if one should control the breath and do visualizations.
Just to clarify, in jnana yoga, the 'winds' will sort themselves out, and automatically find the right 'channels', provided that one carries on discriminating, via self enquiry or neti neti or more subtly, with whatever arises. The key to jnana practice with kundalini is not regarding the kundalini experience as significant and not giving it any special attention or interfering with it. It is easy to see why, accordingly, reading a jnana text one might imagine that all this complicated winds and channels business is unnecessary. It is, rather, inevitable. But giving it attention is unnecessary. It will arise, resolve and integrate itself, with perseverance in jnana yoga. It is focusing on the winds and channels which makes them feel so significant and for some overwhelming, as if something very complex and difficult has to be mastered in order to be enlightened (or even to survive!).
AYP offers an integrated yoga, which includes many elements in self-conscious practice. Another approach to the same holistic reality is to say, as the christian Desert Fathers did, 'Dig in one place' (and all the rest will follow). One gets the whole, whether one likes it or not. But for some, focusing on one practice, such as jnana, is all that is required.
So I would say, it's not introspective sensitivity towards the winds which will resolve them in jnana, if that means being fully aware of them. It's the clear capacity to discriminate 'not-this' whatever comes up, including winds and channels, to turn away and avoid becoming fascinated by them.
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Sep 03 2009 08:11:48 AM |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 07:48:25 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi All:
Very good, but such inquiries should not be favored during AYP deep meditation or other sitting practice procedures. Before or after, but not during. This would be diluting the cultivation of abiding inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, the very foundation of effective (relational) self-inquiry.
The hour or so we spend in structured sitting practices each day sets the stage for clear experience and understanding of our non-dual nature (radiantly free Self) in everything else we do.
An effective integration of practices (involving mind) means doing each one in its own time, not at the same time.
The guru is in you.
I keep that seperate as instructed, although somehow both are one during DM now and in conscious contemplation that also seems to be the case now.
It's like looking at a grain of sand and realising it's part of a beach. The grain of sand is not the beach, neither is it apart from the beach, so studying the beach is no more enlightening than studying the grain of sand. I don't understand it, only know it to be true, that the sand and beach are no more apart than seperate.
|
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 1:30:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
thank you for chiming in brother Konshok.
The chime is that one must integrate the prana at the key point, AS WELL AS, release the mind into the natural state while engaging in self-inquiry.
The prana at the key point is basically the winds in the central channel. That's the AYP approach and the general approach of tantra.
......
Essentially, one must trust the inner guru to know if one has developed the degree of internal introspective sensitivity to dissolve with winds in their place using only the mind and inquiry, or if one should control the breath and do visualizations.
Just to clarify, in jnana yoga, the 'winds' will sort themselves out, and automatically find the right 'channels', provided that one carries on discriminating, via self enquiry or neti neti or more subtly, with whatever arises. The key to jnana practice with kundalini is not regarding the kundalini experience as significant and not giving it any special attention or interfering with it. It is easy to see why, accordingly, reading a jnana text one might imagine that all this complicated winds and channels business is unnecessary. It is, rather, inevitable. But giving it attention is unnecessary. It will arise, resolve and integrate itself, with perseverance in jnana yoga. It is focusing on the winds and channels which makes them feel so significant and for some overwhelming, as if something very complex and difficult has to be mastered in order to be enlightened (or even to survive!).
AYP offers an integrated yoga, which includes many elements in self-conscious practice. Another approach to the same holistic reality is to say, as the christian Desert Fathers did, 'Dig in one place' (and all the rest will follow). One gets the whole, whether one likes it or not. But for some, focusing on one practice, such as jnana, is all that is required.
So I would say, it's not introspective sensitivity towards the winds which will resolve them in jnana, if that means being fully aware of them. It's the clear capacity to discriminate 'not-this' whatever comes up, including winds and channels, to turn away and avoid becoming fascinated by them.
chinna
You totally misunderstood what I said.
Just to clarify, discrimination will not dissolve the winds in their place. Non-discrimination does that, allowing the mind to rest as ease with no attachment and no focus.
Maharshi never said focus on one practice. One must also practice Guru devotion. Maharshi's guru was Arunachala Mountain. Many non-dual yogis' guru was Kailash Mountain.
I know you want Advaita to be the simplest most direct path to enlightenment, but it cannot own that claim. It shares that claim with several paths. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Sep 06 2009 1:53:37 PM |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 4:58:49 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
thank you for chiming in brother Konshok.
The chime is that one must integrate the prana at the key point, AS WELL AS, release the mind into the natural state while engaging in self-inquiry.
The prana at the key point is basically the winds in the central channel. That's the AYP approach and the general approach of tantra.
......
Essentially, one must trust the inner guru to know if one has developed the degree of internal introspective sensitivity to dissolve with winds in their place using only the mind and inquiry, or if one should control the breath and do visualizations.
Just to clarify, in jnana yoga, the 'winds' will sort themselves out, and automatically find the right 'channels', provided that one carries on discriminating, via self enquiry or neti neti or more subtly, with whatever arises. The key to jnana practice with kundalini is not regarding the kundalini experience as significant and not giving it any special attention or interfering with it. It is easy to see why, accordingly, reading a jnana text one might imagine that all this complicated winds and channels business is unnecessary. It is, rather, inevitable. But giving it attention is unnecessary. It will arise, resolve and integrate itself, with perseverance in jnana yoga. It is focusing on the winds and channels which makes them feel so significant and for some overwhelming, as if something very complex and difficult has to be mastered in order to be enlightened (or even to survive!).
AYP offers an integrated yoga, which includes many elements in self-conscious practice. Another approach to the same holistic reality is to say, as the christian Desert Fathers did, 'Dig in one place' (and all the rest will follow). One gets the whole, whether one likes it or not. But for some, focusing on one practice, such as jnana, is all that is required.
So I would say, it's not introspective sensitivity towards the winds which will resolve them in jnana, if that means being fully aware of them. It's the clear capacity to discriminate 'not-this' whatever comes up, including winds and channels, to turn away and avoid becoming fascinated by them.
chinna
You totally misunderstood what I said.
Just to clarify, discrimination will not dissolve the winds in their place. Non-discrimination does that, allowing the mind to rest as ease with no attachment and no focus.
Maharshi never said focus on one practice. One must also practice Guru devotion. Maharshi's guru was Arunachala Mountain. Many non-dual yogis' guru was Kailash Mountain.
I know you want Advaita to be the simplest most direct path to enlightenment, but it cannot own that claim. It shares that claim with several paths.
Thanks Osel
That's interesting. I would say that it is discrimination, as a jnani understands it, which 'allows the mind to rest at ease and with no focus'. So we are in fact in agreement that such a (no-)state is the condition for the winds to find their way.
As for willing the supremacy of advaita, I have no interest in 'competition' between paths, and indeed regard all such claims as spurious. My own path included several traditions (I might be tempted to suggest that following several paths is particularly helpful in understanding what each of them is in fact saying.) But if I am making any point, repeatedly, it is that all major traditions include all the 'paths' in pretty well every particular, but that they fail to recognise this because of a kind of corporate egotism and because translating between the paths on textual evidence alone is impossible, it must be lived experience, hence the communion which monks of all traditions tend to experience.
I write of jnana, in the tradition of the Inchegeri sampradaya in particular, because that is the pole around which my practice has settled for many years, no doubt because my karma is of the doubting Thomas variety, so I can accept or offer nothing which is not my own experience. And because that is the only tradition in which I have been asked to teach.
But I know from experience that what jnana represents is present in all the other traditions of my acquaintance, albeit with different weights and wearing different 'clothes'. It is also my experience that I do not hear anyone say anything about any tradition which is beyond my aquaintance which, after some clarification about what is in fact being claimed, I do not also recognise from my own experience in the traditions which I know.
chinna |
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 5:40:20 PM
|
| Chinna, Please tell me how did you begin to rely on your chosen path. Being the doubter that you are, when did your doubts drop enough to pick it up? |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 6:13:58 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
Chinna, Please tell me how did you begin to rely on your chosen path. Being the doubter that you are, when did your doubts drop enough to pick it up?
Mine was a classic apophatic (negative) path. My experience was always overwhelmingly of boundarilessness, emptiness, no-self. I could never make sense of positive statements of truth. I tried very hard to believe what I was taught, but couldn't. In the end I stopped trying and they all fell away. I think at that point I was truly on my way, and teachers appeared who validated this apophatic path.
I eventually came back to the positive paths, and saw them in a different light, as the other side of the same coin.
So there was never doubt about the truth/reality of the self-experience. To doubt it would have left nothing to hold onto at all. Following it, of course, I found that there was nothing to hold onto at all, not even nothingness.
chinna
|
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 06 2009 : 8:07:46 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
Chinna, Please tell me how did you begin to rely on your chosen path. Being the doubter that you are, when did your doubts drop enough to pick it up?
Mine was a classic apophatic (negative) path. My experience was always overwhelmingly of boundarilessness, emptiness, no-self. I could never make sense of positive statements of truth. I tried very hard to believe what I was taught, but couldn't. In the end I stopped trying and they all fell away. I think at that point I was truly on my way, and teachers appeared who validated this apophatic path.
I eventually came back to the positive paths, and saw them in a different light, as the other side of the same coin.
So there was never doubt about the truth/reality of the self-experience. To doubt it would have left nothing to hold onto at all. Following it, of course, I found that there was nothing to hold onto at all, not even nothingness.
chinna
Then how did Advaita come into the picture for you? Do you consider yourself a practitioner of Advaita Vedanta?
Then, beyond realization of no-thing to hold onto, what else? To what does that realization lead? |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Sep 06 2009 8:30:07 PM |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 04:44:38 AM
|
If you mean, do I study and follow the teachings of Shankara, the answer is no. By advaita vedanta, I mean the non-dual philosophical path rooted in Hinduism. In fact the Inchegeri sampradaya is a branch of the Navnath sampradaya, and is thus a Hindu tantric sampradaya, though its teaching is very simple and philosophical, ie jnana yoga. But my practise of Hindu tantra is also formed in other traditions, and so I worship Siva and enjoy playing as Siva-Sakti. But I recognise that such esoteric language is not necessary and for many is not helpful, it is too culturally specific.
I should emphasise that for me the primary path has been one of direct experience. Exploring that experience has taken me through the thought and practice of several traditions, but somehow the experience was always 'one jump ahead', often showing me that quite directly. One example from many years ago - I sit and meditate and the word 'Fire' appears in flames at manipura. After meditating, I pick up a volume of tantric hymns and open it at random, the hymn speaks of fire appearing at manipura and what it means. There have been countless such phenomena. So I have often felt that the traditions were just confirming what I already knew. I have never really felt I 'practised' any formal path, but that of direct experience. At one point Da Love Ananada appeared and gave a massive boost to the kundalini and understanding of how it worked and what it meant - "in the subtle realms". I was never a student of his, and had only ever read a couple of his early books.
Eventually I came across Ramana and Nisargadatta. I recognised Nisargadatta's every word, felt there were never false notes, in his life or in his teaching. His focus was on direct experience, an utterly austere teaching. I then met a teacher in the same tradition who, after two meetings, invited me to meet his devotees and, who sat me on his right hand and told me to teach and them to listen, somewhat to my embarrassment. He then made clear I should leave him and get on with it myself. He appeared "in the subtle realms", giving me a specific and potent form of self-enquiry, telephoning immediately afterwards to make sure I had got the message!
How can I express what this realisation is? Saying anything would be saying way too much, as you know. But just for you, because you know already THAT of which I speak.....Beyond no-thing is everything. I am everything and nothing. I am no-separation. I am love. I am Shakti pouring from Siva. If you ask me to teach you, I am Chinnamasta. I am saccidananda. I am peace and joy. I am life itself. I AM THAT. And I 'make the tea and chop wood' like everyone else. I recognise that everyone and everything is all of THAT.
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Sep 07 2009 05:28:14 AM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 07:23:48 AM
|
Thank you chinna
Your post is enjoyed very much |
|
|
|
manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 08:24:05 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
How can I express what this realisation is? Saying anything would be saying way too much, as you know. But just for you, because you know already THAT of which I speak.....Beyond no-thing is everything. I am everything and nothing. I am no-separation. I am love. I am Shakti pouring from Siva. If you ask me to teach you, I am Chinnamasta. I am saccidananda. I am peace and joy. I am life itself. I AM THAT. And I 'make the tea and chop wood' like everyone else. I recognise that everyone and everything is all of THAT.
chinna
Hi Chinnamasta
Can I see you in person? I will be in the UK next month for a week or so.
I just want to look into your eyes for a while...
If you don't mind.
And I can chop the wood that day for you in return.
Regards
Mani |
|
|
|
Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 10:42:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
If you mean, do I study and follow the teachings of Shankara, the answer is no. By advaita vedanta, I mean the non-dual philosophical path rooted in Hinduism. In fact the Inchegeri sampradaya is a branch of the Navnath sampradaya, and is thus a Hindu tantric sampradaya, though its teaching is very simple and philosophical, ie jnana yoga. But my practise of Hindu tantra is also formed in other traditions, and so I worship Siva and enjoy playing as Siva-Sakti. But I recognise that such esoteric language is not necessary and for many is not helpful, it is too culturally specific.
I should emphasise that for me the primary path has been one of direct experience. Exploring that experience has taken me through the thought and practice of several traditions, but somehow the experience was always 'one jump ahead', often showing me that quite directly. One example from many years ago - I sit and meditate and the word 'Fire' appears in flames at manipura. After meditating, I pick up a volume of tantric hymns and open it at random, the hymn speaks of fire appearing at manipura and what it means. There have been countless such phenomena. So I have often felt that the traditions were just confirming what I already knew. I have never really felt I 'practised' any formal path, but that of direct experience. At one point Da Love Ananada appeared and gave a massive boost to the kundalini and understanding of how it worked and what it meant - "in the subtle realms". I was never a student of his, and had only ever read a couple of his early books.
Eventually I came across Ramana and Nisargadatta. I recognised Nisargadatta's every word, felt there were never false notes, in his life or in his teaching. His focus was on direct experience, an utterly austere teaching. I then met a teacher in the same tradition who, after two meetings, invited me to meet his devotees and, who sat me on his right hand and told me to teach and them to listen, somewhat to my embarrassment. He then made clear I should leave him and get on with it myself. He appeared "in the subtle realms", giving me a specific and potent form of self-enquiry, telephoning immediately afterwards to make sure I had got the message!
How can I express what this realisation is? Saying anything would be saying way too much, as you know. But just for you, because you know already THAT of which I speak.....Beyond no-thing is everything. I am everything and nothing. I am no-separation. I am love. I am Shakti pouring from Siva. If you ask me to teach you, I am Chinnamasta. I am saccidananda. I am peace and joy. I am life itself. I AM THAT. And I 'make the tea and chop wood' like everyone else. I recognise that everyone and everything is all of THAT.
chinna
I bow down to the Precious Guru Buddha. I ask for the blessings of my teacher and the protections of my protectors.
I see. You have received validation for your experiences. It is wonderful when that happens. I have also had my own personal experiences with truth. Too many to list. I was brought up on Hindu Tantra and Advaita. For 20 years I did nothing but recite AUM. My own habit energy just guided me to visualize my body as the universe expanding, abiding and contracting with every A, U, M, and silence, beginning when I was five years old. My kundalini experiences is one of my earliest memories.
Before I ever read a buddhist sutra, when I was about 17, I had an out of body experience of traveling out of the universe and seeing the true state of the many universes arising from pure will, shakti/shiva. I also worshipped Shivaji. I still have a Shiva deity next to my bed. Shivaji gave me many teachings, by appearing as the infinite faces of all beings and as the energy of life.
Visionary experiences of seeing living rainbow lights who, when I asked the question "what does it mean?" showed me the universe being burned up by time and all beings minds dispersing in misery, not knowing the point of awakening, ultimately dissolving all into emptiness with no remainder of being. Yet an abiding compassion remained as just potential, not deity. Avalokiteshvara appeared and gave me teachings using only mudras. I had to research for a long time to know who had appeared to me. I still did not know anything about sutras.
Then I started studying buddhist tantra. My meditation was accompanied by miracles of a strange flower, that blooms only once per year for twenty minutes opening at the moment of my realizing a stage on the path, and miraculously blooming and opening a second time I realized another. This second time happened last week. My teacher took many pictures of it.
There are many other signs I could mention, but they are a bit terrifying... In this life I have exhausted all my karma from the three realms, demon, human and deva/formless Self.
My realization is beyond being and not-being, that or not that. Ultimately, I recognize and pay homage to the buddhas, the awakened teachers who showed me an unexcelled state of grace beyond any impermanent god or impermanent samadhi (permanent though they may seem). I prefer not to make strong proclamations about who I am, and just dedicate myself to all beings suffering in the three realms, whatever that may mean. I offer my body, speech and mind to all. May all beings be happy and be separate from suffering...
I bow down to the Dharmakaya Buddha, the absolute nature of mind itself, just the pure unborn potential of compassion... in any event. I bow down. |
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 11:53:15 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by manig
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
How can I express what this realisation is? Saying anything would be saying way too much, as you know. But just for you, because you know already THAT of which I speak.....Beyond no-thing is everything. I am everything and nothing. I am no-separation. I am love. I am Shakti pouring from Siva. If you ask me to teach you, I am Chinnamasta. I am saccidananda. I am peace and joy. I am life itself. I AM THAT. And I 'make the tea and chop wood' like everyone else. I recognise that everyone and everything is all of THAT.
chinna
Hi Chinnamasta
Can I see you in person? I will be in the UK next month for a week or so.
I just want to look into your eyes for a while...
If you don't mind.
And I can chop the wood that day for you in return.
Regards
Mani
Dear Mani
Thank you, but my teaching is about you, not about me. If you have read what I have been saying, you will know that I have no interest but in encouraging you to go into your own experience very deeply, until you are beyond all conditioned concepts, including the concept I-Am. I can only teach the path that I have followed. For this path, the principal requirement is sincerity. You will progress in direct proportion to your sincerity. And that means eschewing any suggestion that someone else can give you what you seek for free. You must find it for yourself. This is the jnana path.
Chinnamasta doesn't chop your head off for you (metaphorically), she chops off her own, to show you how to do it, and that you do not need to fear.
chinna
|
|
|
|
chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 12:39:28 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
I bow down to the Precious Guru Buddha. I ask for the blessings of my teacher and the protections of my protectors.
I see. You have received validation for your experiences. It is wonderful when that happens. I have also had my own personal experiences with truth. Too many to list. I was brought up on Hindu Tantra and Advaita. For 20 years I did nothing but recite AUM. My own habit energy just guided me to visualize my body as the universe expanding, abiding and contracting with every A, U, M, and silence, beginning when I was five years old. My kundalini experiences is one of my earliest memories.
Before I ever read a buddhist sutra, when I was about 17, I had an out of body experience of traveling out of the universe and seeing the true state of the many universes arising from pure will, shakti/shiva. I also worshipped Shivaji. I still have a Shiva deity next to my bed. Shivaji gave me many teachings, by appearing as the infinite faces of all beings and as the energy of life.
Visionary experiences of seeing living rainbow lights who, when I asked the question "what does it mean?" showed me the universe being burned up by time and all beings minds dispersing in misery, not knowing the point of awakening, ultimately dissolving all into emptiness with no remainder of being. Yet an abiding compassion remained as just potential, not deity. Avalokiteshvara appeared and gave me teachings using only mudras. I had to research for a long time to know who had appeared to me. I still did not know anything about sutras.
Then I started studying buddhist tantra. My meditation was accompanied by miracles of a strange flower, that blooms only once per year for twenty minutes opening at the moment of my realizing a stage on the path, and miraculously blooming and opening a second time I realized another. This second time happened last week. My teacher took many pictures of it.
There are many other signs I could mention, but they are a bit terrifying... In this life I have exhausted all my karma from the three realms, demon, human and deva/formless Self.
My realization is beyond being and not-being, that or not that. Ultimately, I recognize and pay homage to the buddhas, the awakened teachers who showed me an unexcelled state of grace beyond any impermanent god or impermanent samadhi (permanent though they may seem). I prefer not to make strong proclamations about who I am, and just dedicate myself to all beings suffering in the three realms, whatever that may mean. I offer my body, speech and mind to all. May all beings be happy and be separate from suffering...
I bow down to the Dharmakaya Buddha, the absolute nature of mind itself, just the pure unborn potential of compassion... in any event. I bow down.
Thank you Osel for sharing something of your dramatic story. One day your story will be known much more widely, I feel sure.
chinna |
|
|
|
manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 07 2009 : 1:34:41 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
Dear Mani
Thank you, but my teaching is about you, not about me. If you have read what I have been saying, you will know that I have no interest but in encouraging you to go into your own experience very deeply, until you are beyond all conditioned concepts, including the concept I-Am. I can only teach the path that I have followed. For this path, the principal requirement is sincerity. You will progress in direct proportion to your sincerity. And that means eschewing any suggestion that someone else can give you what you seek for free. You must find it for yourself. This is the jnana path.
Chinnamasta doesn't chop your head off for you (metaphorically), she chops off her own, to show you how to do it, and that you do not need to fear.
chinna
Chinnamasta
I just want to look into your eyes.
I don't want you to show or teach me anything.
Please!? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Ramana Maharshi on Meditation Experiences
