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Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 03:47:13 AM
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namaste friends,
been wondering if it's natural for smthg like this to happen during deep meditation.
it feels great and it's the deepest form of samadhi i ever experienced but the whole no air thingy is smthg which seems a bit clunky and my ego is experiencing a huge fear during this state but it's all under control just letting go and melting in stillness.
love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 06:32:48 AM
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| coming back to my post, i should point out that this is not your ordinary breathless state the air was literally pushed out of my body by some unknown force.. |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 08:52:41 AM
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Oh, Dear Ananda,
This sounds like what happened in the Autobiography of a Yogi when the saint who is always in a cosmic romance with the Divine Mother, touched Yogananda on the chest. His air was sucked out and he experienced deep samadhi.. It also happens in Secrets of Wilder.
You probably have some friends in the Astral
Wishing you the best,
Yonatan |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 09:51:04 AM
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hi Yobnatan,
i remember those and i don't know why but it doesn't feel like the same experience.
there was a very intense fear that went along with it (both the ego and the body were involved) and it was the first time in my life that i experienced fear in such intensity but i've overcome it and i've had a lot of other ego death experiences and melted in white light b4 and disapeared but it wasn't anything like this.
there was the sort of feeling like being possesed by smthg else and it made me realize the ego much more and whenever the who am i enquiry came up the reply i got was more emptiness..
i know that some will say that this is scenery and i have a lot of that stuff trust me and i don't go on posting them; but i felt like sharing this experience and maybe getting some info about it's significance or mechanics if there are any.
concerning the astral , i am safe in knowing that someone is looking over my shoulders and he gives me some little insights every now and then.
love,
Ananda |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 12:35:23 PM
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| beautiful. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 4:22:33 PM
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you are the beautiful one brother Miguel
concerning my experience, don't ask me how and why but now i realize what it was.
it happened on the causal plane and it involved some karmic change, and at the moment in which the fear was too much and i felt like i was possesed and the inquiry started happening i brought forth a lot of the scary stuff i envisioned from childhood up till now especially the "spiritual ones" whom i encountered from an early age and i've let them all melt and guess what now it's all wiped clean
even though That is beyond karma and not affected by it, it's obvious for me now that this body needs purification and it has to go through it's karma all the way if that's possible...
light and love,
Ananda |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 4:49:40 PM
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Its a real blessing to read your words ananda.Youre a beautiful one also,and i you have an amazing spiritual path before your eyes.Onward my friend,onward!
Sometimes,You are a powerful presence in my shadhna,like this evenong practices.Your great development inspires my path.
This is true. |
Edited by - miguel on Aug 26 2009 4:51:44 PM |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 8:23:57 PM
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it isnt samadhi unless there is cessation of breath, that is one of the signs of entering into it. u move past air/4th element and move into sky/ether/5th element. it has nothing to do with the causal plane, it happens on this physical plane and your mind is absorbed in the astral or ethereal plane. in order to get to the causal plane u would have to be godly and have all siddhis concievable. beings who dwell in the causal plane are able to bring universes into creation as mentioned in yoganandas autobiography of a yogi. the preliminary breatheless state should be repeated consistently to bring about more astral/ethereal experiences such as the ethereal lights and sounds that occur in the brain/crown chakra of the astral body
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Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 26 2009 8:30:30 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 10:04:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7
it isnt samadhi unless there is cessation of breath, that is one of the signs of entering into it. u move past air/4th element and move into sky/ether/5th element. it has nothing to do with the causal plane, it happens on this physical plane and your mind is absorbed in the astral or ethereal plane. in order to get to the causal plane u would have to be godly and have all siddhis concievable. beings who dwell in the causal plane are able to bring universes into creation as mentioned in yoganandas autobiography of a yogi. the preliminary breatheless state should be repeated consistently to bring about more astral/ethereal experiences such as the ethereal lights and sounds that occur in the brain/crown chakra of the astral body
Hi Michaelangelo7,
I respectfully disagree with some of your statements above.
Samadhi is not determined by breathing or breathlessness, in experiencing, necessarily.
If you feel you have experienced the distinction, between what you say above, describing samadhi, and what I'm saying, describing samadhi, I certainly invite you to clarify, based on your own experiencing.
If, however, you are basing your comments upon things you have read, I happily invite you to know:
Some of us (AYP practitioners) experience samadhi daily -- and so can you (anyone reading this), by daily practices and genuine inquiry; it's not difficult.
Some of us experience samadhi in meditation, some out of meditation - some living in and from samadhi, as it is usually understood and defined.
The levels and amount of samadhi varies, but there's a lot of genuine samadhi experiencing among AYP practitioners, and I can't speak for anyone else, of course -- but my experiencing of samadhi is quite complete -- and it is not the same as what you describe above.
Savikalpa Samadhi is absorption in the samadhi state based on union with an object ... which causes the distinctions between subject, object, and means of perception of the object to unify.
Nirvikalpa Samadhi is when these distinctions fall away completely, and there is only awareness aware of awareness.
Sahaja Samadhi is when identification shifts from the idea "I am this body mind" or "I am me" to knowing oneself as awareness, and everything appearing in it now; it's all happening within the field of awareness; everything experienced is happening in awareness, now; it can't be otherwise.
Samadhi is a lot less mysterious than most books and teachings would have it.
All "Samadhi" means is primordial (adhi) union (sam) <- and yes, the "sam" root also means "good, or blessed" -- Samadhi is original awareness; the original awareness behind the thinking mind, reading these words, now.
Samadhi is not defined by qualifications or distinctions written about by someone, and evaluated by the conditioned thinking mind.
Samadhi cannot be defined or qualified; it can only be experienced, in reality.
Samadhi is the original awareness-reality that's always here-now, when distinctions and definitions fall away completely.
Am I correct in what I say?
Find out.
How can you find out?
Practice AYP as suggested in the lessons.
And, I hope this is helpful, very truly.
As everyone here knows, direct disagreement with other people's statements and views is rare for me -- but in this case, the clarification is very important.
Many people conceive of samadhi as a "winning the lottery" kind of thing - it's all about the "wonder" of the experience, and the marvel of having actually "made it" to that experience.
Samadhi is "wonder-full" to be sure, especially initially --- but far more importantly than that:
Samadhi is real, and samadhi is something that can and will be experienced by every dedicated yogic practitioner.
It's an essential part of the realization process --- not as a "line to cross", or "box to check" ... but as the actual experiencing of the mis-identification with form, that keeps the thinking-me bound to the dream of non-realization (via its cessation, aka "samadhi", aka "yoga" --- the "cessation of mind-modifications" - Yoga Sutra I.2).
If samadhi is conceived to be exotic, or hard to attain ... or, if difficult-to-imagine qualifications (i.e. "not breathing") are conceived to be part of the deal, and one's own experience is compared conceptually to these concepts ... samadhi will be kept at bay conceptually, when there's no reason to preclude your own enlightenment in that manner.
However, it's not like this is a matter of life or death.
It's a LOT more important than that.
Enlightenment isn't the most important thing.
Enlightenment is the only important thing -- because, actually - enlightenment is not a "thing", or an attainment ---- it's who and what we each and all actually are, now.
Regarding some of the details mentioned above (in Michaelangelo7's post) --
Yes, the "breathless state" can and does happen; I experience more of it than I ever imagined probable or possible (and I began experiencing a lot more of it when my system was ready --- as evidenced by the fact I began experiencing more of it; when I was *trying* to experience it, it was an exercise in frustration -- not to mention an exercise in holding my breath!!  )
And -- astral plane stuff is just a set of glorified thought-forms, literally. No matter how awe-inspiring they may be to the mind, or how real they may seem.
If you have to be a god to access the causal plane, there are a lot of gods and goddess running around.
"Siddhi" just means "complete" (or "perfected" - which means complete). The trap of "all siddhis conceivable", whether conceived in thought-form or in apparent actual experiencing ... is a trap, by any name.
The only actual siddhi is reality.
Realizing true nature as reality is worth ignoring all the pseudo-siddhis, no matter how staggering they may appear to be, to the mind.
"Siddhi-cally speaking" ...  ... if it reinforces the sense of separate self -- it's a bad idea -- no matter how fully formed it may be.
All these terms -- samadhi, siddhi, astral, causal, physical, etc. etc. -- are just names for facets of awareness (real or imagined), which have (qualitatively) varying degrees of subtlety (from unitive-infinite all the way to manifest-physical, and back again; round and round She goes -- and where she stops, nobody knows)!
The foundational aspect of awareness (that which is beyond all aspect/non-aspect) of all -- the very ground of being, from which the causal, astral and physical arise (from awareness, made of awareness, dissolving back into awareness) ..... is the awareness behind the mind, the awareness actually reading these words now.
"It is not the ear that hears, but that by which the ear that hears, that is Brahman, the eternal; it is not the mind that thinks, but that by which the mind thinks, that is Brahman the eternal."
It's the silence experienced between mantra repetitions in meditation.
It's the gap that can be experienced between every perception.
It's what's living and displaying all of this, as all of this, now here.
It's what is actually reading these words.
It's who you are.
Samadhi is not only far beyond what you imagine; it's far beyond what you can imagine.
And closer than your own breath, or your most intimate thought.
But only infinitely.
Intending The Happy Realization Of Reality For All,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Aug 26 2009 11:51:59 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 11:28:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
hi Yobnatan,
i remember those and i don't know why but it doesn't feel like the same experience.
there was a very intense fear that went along with it (both the ego and the body were involved) and it was the first time in my life that i experienced fear in such intensity but i've overcome it and i've had a lot of other ego death experiences and melted in white light b4 and disapeared but it wasn't anything like this.
there was the sort of feeling like being possesed by smthg else and it made me realize the ego much more and whenever the who am i enquiry came up the reply i got was more emptiness..
i know that some will say that this is scenery and i have a lot of that stuff trust me and i don't go on posting them; but i felt like sharing this experience and maybe getting some info about it's significance or mechanics if there are any.
concerning the astral, i am safe in knowing that someone is looking over my shoulders and he gives me some little insights every now and then.
love,
Ananda
Hey Brother Ananda,
This sounds like a specific, intense purification-scenery type of experiencing.
"Scenery" can make it sound lighter than your experience; I don't mean it that way.
By "scenery", I mean anything that can appear to have form.
Some of it can scare the hell out of you.
Hopefully, all the way out.
The mind loves to label ... it wants to get the good stuff, and avoid the bad stuff.
Whatever happened --- it's only a memory ... an imagination .... in mind ... now .... yes?
Mental images *are* the astral ...... thought-forms, dream-forms, astral-forms ... all non-physical forms in consciousness.
The experience of breath rushing out of you was apparently physical.
The memory of it now is psychic - mental - thinking --- dream consciousness, now.
Anything that "was" is a dream.
Anything that "will be" is a dream.
These things are not physically manifest -- maybe they *were* -- maybe they *will be* --- but now -- they are thought-form --- imagined memory - dreaming.
My point?
ALL Thought-form ...... whether evaluation of an experience, a dream at night, an evaluation of a concept, a mental prejudice (aka "belief"), glorious visions of the creation, preservation and dissolution of universes, with yourself as the god/goddess of it all; visitations of angels; all ideas -- are *dream consciousness* ..... forms created in mind, only.
This doesn't mean they are "fake" -- it means they're at a certain, well understood level of consciousness ----- that of non-physical form.
There's physical form (Now).
There's non-physical form (Dream; Thinking; Memory; Imagination)
There's transitioning from unformed-to-formed .... potentiality/causality (the latent or consciously created building-blocks with which specific thoughts are created, or via which specific thought-forms create you {depending upon who you think you are / if you think you are / if you're not thinking}).
There's the underlying field of awareness we each and all are, being, now -- whether it's consciously known or not. Enlightenment; the original level/layer/reality of consciousness we can never escape from, because it's generating all of this, and is what we're made of and making everything of; we are not the form ---- we're the space --- the awareness ----- informing the form.)
The terrible, dream condition of being enslaved by dreaming is called unenlightenment.
The liberated reality of creating with/prior to/as/from/beyond thought-form is called enlightenment, now (and only now).
How does this relate to your experience of the disturbing, scary, breathless samadhi?
Simplicity itself:
Don't worry about it.
Don't dream about it.
Let it go.
Be here now.
In times of mind disturbance, I used to find it helpful to notice:
*Am I physically on fire?
(Thankfully, the answer was always: "No".)
*Is there any large animal, or large group of small animals, aggressively chewing on me with sharp teeth?
(Thankfully, this answer was always "No", as well.)
With the current moment viewed by those standards, everything turned out to be surprisingly manageable.
Better yet was dropping mental evaluation for what it was:
A bad idea.
Weird stuff often happens in mind on the yogic path.
I had some *doozies* -- basically, anything you can imagine, thought-wise, emotion-wise, energy experience-wise, awe-wise, terror-wise, bliss-wise and foolishness-wise  ......... I .... apparently .... experienced .... I ..... think -- or more accurately: thought.
And you know the most funny-wonderful aspect of all?
I don't remember a single one of them.
*Really*.
Dreams fade.
Reality is.
And so are you.
Intending Dream-Free Reality For All,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Aug 26 2009 11:40:23 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 07:28:28 AM
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don't wanna sound too haughty laughty but i already know all this brother kirtanman... and i know that i am not the body but the whole and living it... waves come waves go this is how all experiments are and it doesn't hurt if one knows what was happening in the world of samsara (we live yet we are not in this world, it's all passing scenery even our conversation here)
intuition is taken over and according to where it takes me i react "i learned to trust That with loving acceptance" and it works.
kindest regards and the deepest of gratitude to all your precious and generous sharing; you are a gem.
Ananda
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 07:44:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7
it isnt samadhi unless there is cessation of breath, that is one of the signs of entering into it. u move past air/4th element and move into sky/ether/5th element. it has nothing to do with the causal plane, it happens on this physical plane and your mind is absorbed in the astral or ethereal plane. in order to get to the causal plane u would have to be godly and have all siddhis concievable. beings who dwell in the causal plane are able to bring universes into creation as mentioned in yoganandas autobiography of a yogi. the preliminary breatheless state should be repeated consistently to bring about more astral/ethereal experiences such as the ethereal lights and sounds that occur in the brain/crown chakra of the astral body
brother michael, sahaj samadhi the state of abiding in awareness all the time happens while the body is breathing.
samadhi can be experienced in all forms, i experience it every day in and out of practice to some extent.
we are one, all is God...
the causal plane can be experienced by anyone in the form of divine grace... as far as my experience with it goes; each time i went through it was the beginning of a new phase in my life.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....,of,the,body
concerning what Paramhansa Yogananda experienced in his book, i sort of went through a similar thing but it all started it's work from the third eye and all the vibrational stuff happened but i lost sense of being anything at one point and i don't remember if my breath stopped or not and it happened by itself there was no guru involved.
just want to point out that i don't know where i am and i don't claim to be an enlightened or a realized being or anything.
actually i feel quite at the start of it all when i compare what i'm going through to people experiences who have described the path before such as Yogani; lakshmana swami and sri Sarada...
but i am at a good place; far better than where i was before coming to ayp... Thank you Yogani and thank you ayp community you have all been a blessing in my life .
AYP works, and it has the best stuff in it from all traditions "integrating practices is the quickest way to have the best results"
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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A no breath samadhi
