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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 14 2009 : 01:15:24 AM
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So I've been practicing hold-back and blocking techniques for almost a year now, averaging one blocked ejaculation or wet dream every two to four weeks. I've had very good success in terms of increased ecstatic conductivity, greater silence during meditation and better staying power during sex.
The other day, however, I was getting really close to the limit and decided to let myself have a "normal," non-blocked ejaculation both for fun (girlfriend who is very patient with my tantric practice also enjoys seeing it from time to time) and to kind of make sure everything was still working as before, so to speak. This would be the first waking, non-blocked ejaculation in several months. However, I found it kind of strange and not very enjoyable, disappointingly enough--instead of squirting out as it would before it just kind of oozed out and I had this feeling of still wanting to kind of suck it back in.
Yogani has mentioned in the tantra lessons that eventually ejaculation changes to a "higher" functioning where much of the semen is retained even during genital orgasm. Was this the beginnings of that change or was I just so accustomed psychologically to "holding back" that even when having a "normal" orgasm I couldn't help but try to suck it all back in? Hopefully the muscles associated with ejaculation haven't become weak with infrequent use?
This leads me to another question: how to balance between relaxation and control. That is, I feel like in order to have tantric sex or masturbation I have to always maintain a certain tension (not physically clenching or anything--more of a psychological tension), especially down there in order not to let go too fully and ejaculate by accident. However, in order to really enjoy sex (and also for successful meditation) I tend to think a deep relaxation and "letting go" is required. Now, I've become accustomed to trying to balance certain seeming contradictions in this pursuit, but this one seems particularly hard. I also feel like this most recent orgasm wasn't enjoyable because I couldn't relax, anxious as I was about letting go of a kind of barrier I had held up for some time.
Obviously I don't want to create new mental barriers, blockages or hang ups around my sexuality in an attempt to improve my Yoga, but it seems hard to maintain this kind of continence without installing mental walls of sorts that prevent letting go all the way. Now I'm a little worried that I've gotten too obsessive and uptight about it and would like to learn to be more relaxed about it, but I also hate to risk messing up a good habit I've worked hard to establish.
Any tips about maintaining brahmacharya without developing new blockages or mental hangups? Have other people noticed this sort of change in ejaculation? Is anyone able to describe in a little more detail what happens when the advanced yogi has an (unblocked) genital orgasm? Does the advanced yogi's ejaculation change so that the semen can no longer squirt out as most men are accustomed to because the majority is automatically sucked up into the bladder? Or is he mentally capable of controlling whether his genital orgasms go "out" or "in"?
Thanks for any advice or experiences. |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Aug 14 2009 09:32:31 AM |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 11:21:28 AM
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Hi Tamasaburo,
I guess this makes a good question to Yogani.
I've noticed that when I progressed too fast, there also was a tendency towards uncontrolled ejac during sex, 1-2 times a month, which also seems to be a common frequency in Taoist sex. In Tantra, the recommendation is zero but getting there seems to take weeks for some couples and years for others - I made a post about it at http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=6068#54950 .
I agree that after several weeks of solely preorgasmic sex, an ejac feels a bit unnecessary; several times, I knew I'd be able to postpone for yet another couple of weeks if it weren't for our advance agreement upon ejac sex that particular night.
Also, postponing it might be at the cost of coming all of a sudden some other day - without having told her in advance. So right now, I prefer increasing self-control to a decreasing frequency. I'm more into planning it (uncontrolled ejacs becoming extremely rare), increasing the intervals only slowly.
I suppose these are a couple of slightly different paths, all of them pointing the same direction.
Best of luck ! |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 12:37:28 PM
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Thanks for the observations. I've switched back to blocking during sex after finally going a week without any unintentional ejaculations or wet dreams and am now planning to try to get back towards extending that. The biggest conflict for me lately tends to be the worry that if I get too stimulated and don't ejaculate that then I'll have a wet dream that night, at which point I'll feel I might as well have just had a blocked ejaculation during sex. Therefore I often find myself having this mental debate: "should I just go for a blocked orgasm now that I've gotten so stimulated and may end up having a wet dream anyway or should I try to hold on a few more days?"
It's much harder to manage with an eager partner around! When I was single I managed to get the time between ejaculations up to around two months simply by not masturbating or thinking too much about sex. Now I'm considering myself lucky if I can make it two weeks. Of course, the pre-orgasmic stimulation may be helping my process along in some ways even if it's not quite as good as the strict abstinence was.
I am still curious, though, about how the actual ejaculation mechanism changes with long-term yoga practice--is it that a majority of the semen gets automatically sucked up during ejaculation even without blocking? When Yogani says that natural vajroli is a constant release of semen at the root, is that literally like mini retrograde ejaculations happening all the time or more just like a massaging movement in the prostate area? The latter occurs with me during pranayama--a kind of gentle squeezing and releasing of the area--but I wouldn't say any actual semen is being released. Is this is what is meant by natural vajroli or does one reach a point where semen can actually be felt releasing and sucking up all the time? |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Aug 30 2009 1:53:07 PM |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 6:07:56 PM
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Hi tamasaburo and HathaTeacher,
interesting posts, thank you.
I'm wondering if I'm alone with my experience, but once I learned to block and developed a habit to do it always when get to the top, this habit just automatically worked also during dreaming state. The blocking happens like a reflex, without a need to wake up or quit the dream. The activation of the blocking reflex makes me usually realize that I am dreaming, having an ejaculation and blocking, though.
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 07:03:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
It's much harder to manage with an eager partner around!
hehe... i know :) reminds me of a song i heard the other day by lady gaga - "lets have some fun i wanna take a ride on your disco stick... don't think too much just bust that stick.. la la la la..."
*ahem* well...
if you remain aware of your sex centre when it comes into action... in the vicinity of the opposite (physically or virtually) or during fantasy, you will see how it functions... just like one sees his/her thoughts during meditation.
sex/masturbation is done through your sex centre... NOT BY YOU!
if you remain witness to the process... its just like watching your thoughts during meditation.
normally, the sex centre takes possession of your body and you become unaware... you forget yourself in the pleasure. but if you remain aware/alert, you will see this separateness between you and your sex centre.
so next time your partner wants to do some disco... let her do it... but you go into meditation.
you might feel sorry for not responding to her eagerness (as you would have) but this is the way... if you respond or think during the act... you lose.
even in your dreams!
so it might be better if you first try to bring the witness state in your normal conscious with meditation/sadhana. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 3:30:48 PM
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Thanx Manig for reminding. Yes it's a lot about the relaxed concentration of the mind (along with more or less relaxed breathing). I sometimes try to witness the arousal as if it were an inch outside my spine. It's there and it's ours - but it's not me/us, I'm an inch from it.
I think Mimiron made a good reply, too: repeated practice probably makes the body "remember" the blocking more and more automatically, and in time. I'm not sure what happens anatomically during the retraining but I do agree that what I considered before as small miracles gradually became possible through practice.
Best of luck!
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 4:32:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
Thanks for the observations. I've switched back to blocking during sex after finally going a week without (...)
Hi Tamasaburo,
I'm not sure what happens anatomically, and i haven't noticed semen in urine, so there seems to be some recycling going on in the body. What you describe is the controlling mechanism.
I'm sure progress comes from practice (including the tradeoff between relaxation and control), just like in other retentions such as kumbhaka or fasting. I suppose the need/reflex to ejaculate will finally cease (well, one problem fewer then, isn't it...  ) as I experience greater and greater pleasure without, but that point still seems to be years ahead.
I think the absence of wet dreams also comes with age and training. It seems logical to work around it using the control buttons at hand while awake: avoiding thought of sex, avoiding protein-rich food for dinner/supper, as well as sweet or spicy tastes, finishing off the dinner with very bitter taste (edive/chicory or a few drops of grape-fruit seed extract), letting enough fresh air into the bedroom (CO2 makes the body more "ejac-prone"), performing soothing asanas and exercises in the evening, relaxed deep breath when you go to bed, etc.
In Tantra, there shall be a stimulation of all senses (as Yogani put it, "she calls the seed out" ;
so yes, being a couple makes brahmacharya more difficult - and more fascinating...) but the point to which you can control ejaculations moves higher and higher through practice, until you become able to enjoy a series of her deep orgasms without an ejac. IMO, it's 80% about the man and 20 about the woman; her 20% are mostly about inspiring you to "smooth out" arousal from mouladhara throughout the entire body, and about learning your current "point of no return" and not pushing you higher unless both of you have agreed in advance (but if she "calls" too intensely anyway, I still think it's all about my learning, there's nothing to chase and nobody to blame). So the mental "AYP trick" against new hangups or blockages is to have it evolve at a natural pace from repeated practice of pranayama, meditation, asana and Tantric sex.
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lover
Philippines
35 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 8:57:51 PM
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hello,
Nice post!
Guys, how do you manage to control the urge 'to ejaculate again' once you slipped?
As for me, the moment i ejaculate after long periods of non-ejaculatory behaviors ( moderate sex only ), the pull of the urge to ejaculate again is very demanding. And although i can still manage to handle it by using willpower at first, i'd love to know 'bout how you guys overcome it.
Honestly, this has been the greatest challenge that i'd encounter. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 9:26:08 PM
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| In my experience I don't try to resist the urge for that second one. When I do I feel a general irritaton that can last for several days at least or even an unconcious ejaculation during meditation practice which is not to my liking. What I find is that once in awhile it feels good and healthy to just conciously let it go and share that energy with a partner if possible. Enjoy it fully, don't block, really get off. Then if the urge comes for a second or third in that same session or day, I just enjoy it and don't resist. Once I am fully empty then I try to have as relaxing a next few days and start to recharge. How often one does this is a personal matter. When I was in a relationship it was once every two weeks to a month, but now that I am single I went for 7 months last time but when I did release it was because I felt too much build up of tension and backed up energy so I just fully indulged until I was spent. Now its been about 3 weeks after that and I feel totally fine and good energy and could go another few months no problem. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 10:42:24 PM
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| I have a similar perspective to Victor. I think it is good to share the occasional orgasm with a partner if it is called for. I also notice that it unblocks stuck energy, so see it as beneficial from time to time. As long as tantra practices are resumed energy continues to be balanced within. |
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lover
Philippines
35 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 12:44:49 AM
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hello,
thanks victor and Anthem11, i really appreciate that.
So, u mean it's not such a big deal to ejaculate consecutively after retaining it? How about the loss of prana?
Because for me, if i tolerate myself to do so, the immediate feeling of mood swings is quite obvious after its occurence. How this is so?
Please shed some light?
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 01:38:13 AM
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| There is some loss of prana but the irritation of not feeling satisfied can be just as disturbing. Most men don't worry too much about that lost energy, they just sleep it off. In this case once in awhile just behave like a regular non yogic man and relax, then resume your yogic discipline. It won't kill you once in awhile. If it becomes too frequent then its a different story but I don't believe that itis healthy to fixate on it too much. |
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Change in ejaculation mechanism?
