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vd007
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 4:07:10 PM
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I am a 35 year old south asian male. I weigh 130 pounds. I started tantra 3 years back. I must have read all books on tantra in the market. In addition I must have done 2000 – 3000 hours of vipassana meditation practice, which consist of watching breath and body sensations (S N Goenka tradition) in the past ten years. I meditate daily for 2 hours. I do not do AYP I AM or the spinal breathing as I had some adverse reaction when I undertook them. I had stomach pain and headaches when I did them.
My question is after 10 min foreplay and half an hour of tantric sex I feel very tired during the next day. If I start my day with tantric sex I feel tired and don’t feel like doing anything. I just relax during sex and use the stop and start or the holdback technique. When close to orgasm, I just relax. I just ejaculate like once a month. I do not use voice, breathing or microcosmic or cobra breath or any other technique. I had practiced celibacy for an year earlier and my energy levels after having pre orgasmic sex are no where near to that. In addition I also feel fearful.
I know with these practices (vipassana and tantric sex) lot of stored karma or blockages come up. I just can’t figure out that this tiredness and loss of interest, is it my karma or does this happen to everyone who is doing tantric sex. Do people who do tantric sex feel tired (not as tired as they would feel if they were to ejaculate everytime they had sex but still tired). Do they feel tired and with loss of interest in work and so on?
Does anyone have any method where one can have tantric sex and not feel tired at all?
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vd007
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 5:54:56 PM
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| Can anyone help me with the above |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 6:08:21 PM
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I have never felt fatigue as such from tantric sex and actually have often felt energized. It is possible that this may have to do with your partner or how you feel about intimacy with her or her energy level or what sort of relationship you have etc.
Nothing wrong with celibacy if that is what you prefer and it certainly makes life much less complicated. Maybe reexamine what kind of relationship you want with your partner of with partners in general. In my view tantric sex is best for people who are already in sexual relationships, become involved in a love relationship and want to share intimacy with their partner or for those for whom sex is very important and would deeply miss the experience. On the other hand if celibacy is comfortable for you and you are happy that way then I wouldn't seek tantric sex because you feel that it is a practice that you need but rather see it as an adjustment to the lifestyle of being with a partner. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 7:28:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vd007
My question is after 10 min foreplay and half an hour of tantric sex I feel very tired during the next day. If I start my day with tantric sex I feel tired and don’t feel like doing anything. I just relax during sex and use the stop and start or the holdback technique. When close to orgasm, I just relax. I just ejaculate like once a month. I do not use voice, breathing or microcosmic or cobra breath or any other technique. I had practiced celibacy for an year earlier and my energy levels after having pre orgasmic sex are no where near to that. In addition I also feel fearful.
Does anyone have any method where one can have tantric sex and not feel tired at all?
Hi vd007 ... welcome to the AYP Forum.
I agree with Victor's comments .... tantric sex is usually experienced as energizing; it's the ejaculation alone that is often experienced as energy-depleting, and even ejaculation can cease to feel energy-depleting after a certain level of realization.
Point Being: it seems unlikely that it is the tantric practice itself, from an energy standpoint (physical/sexual energy), that would be causing a sense of energy-depletion.
It sounds like you may have a bit of an intuitive handle on the situation: both vipassana and your sense of feeling fearful may be keys, here.
There are a lot of possibilities has to what the specifics might be ... if you can provide a bit of additional information, we might be able to help you "troubleshoot" (help you figure out what's going on, and what, if anything to do about it).
A couple of suggestions:
*If you can, maybe go a bit longer than you normally do, without any kind of sexual activity ... and see if that affects your energy levels.
*Likewise, maybe also start (if you don't do so already) solo tantric practices (masturbation without ejaculation) ... and see what effect, if any, this has on your energy levels.
In general (and others, please speak up if your experience is different) ... for men, sexual activity, especially with a partner, tends to produce a significant net energy gain ... that can be counter-acted directly by ejaculation .... and so, sex without ejaculation is usually an energetic benefit to yogic practice, if one is so inclined.
I said "for men", because the dynamics of orgasm are different for women; the inherent energy loss isn't there ... though the dynamics are actually more similar than they are different (women can experience a great amount of energy gain, yogically, by not "only expressing"/externalizing orgasm, but by drawing the energy in and up both during and immediately after orgasm/as orgasm is ending).
Basically, practicing tantric sex, yet only ejaculating once a month, and feeling tired and fearful is very unusual ... and so, it's likely that either your conditioned psychology (aka karma), and/or effects of intense vipassana practices over time ("bringing up" stored karmic energy, and feeling it manifest during sex) .. or both ... are creating this issue.
Some other questions, if you care to answer them (and no worries if you don't feel comfortable, or simply don't want to do so ... the following information might just help us to help you).
*Why were you celibate? (Was it purely as a spiritual/yogic practice?)
*Do you have any concerns or active conditioning/discomfort surrounding concepts of sexual morality, as they relate to your own sexual behavior? (meaning: do you feel perfectly comfortable having sex with a partner, or if there some sense of doing something "wrong"? I ask this question, because depending on the presence and severity of such feelings, those thoughts and feelings could produce a sense of energy drain, and fearfulness).
*Do you have any other major challenges in life that could be a directly contributing factor to energy drain? (alcohol or drug use; family issues; money concerns, insomnia, etc.?)
Ultimately, you may not know .... one of the great things about both deep meditation and the energies released during tantric sex (especially because, depending on the degree of interpersonal love and intimacy that is truly present ... some of ego-mind's most deep-seated karmic conditioning can come up and out, so to speak).
And .... some good news ...  ... *that* possibility just occurred to me:
It may be that you're tired because your intense overall practices are *working* .... you may be "moving" a lot of karmic dross "up and out" via both meditation and tantric sex ... to a degree that it's experienced as draining, from an energy standpoint.
If nothing else I've written resonates as accurate .... you might want to look at that.
If that seems like a possibility .... maybe roll back your overall practices a bit (reduce meditation time by half for a few days, cut your tantric sex in half, in terms of frequency of sessions, etc.) .... and note the effects ..... if you notice either an increase in overall energy, or the absence of the energy loss you described in your first post in this thread ..... you're probably just "over-doing overall", and need to self-pace a bit, as we say in AYP.
I hope this is helpful.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 9:31:42 PM
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Two hours daily of meditation is too much for anyone but a renunciate living apart from society in an ashram. Otherwise, this extreme daily practice will unbalance your activity--including other practices, tantra included. Sexual tantra is not for a person doing such extreme meditative practices, and I theorize that this may be why you feel energy loss rather than the extreme blissful energy flow which should be the result.
Michael
(by the way--I have been a meditation teacher for 35 years, personally instructed by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, so I do not speak out of ignorance on these matters...) |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 07:52:22 AM
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Sounds like over purification. Please look into self pacing.
Also, make sure you rest after meditation and energy practices.
http://www.aypsite.org/15.html
Always take at least a few minutes of doing nothing (relaxing, not thinking the mantra) at the end of meditation. This allows stresses and strains being released from the nervous system during meditation to dissipate harmlessly. Then, when you get up, you will feel light and refreshed. If you don't, you are probably not resting long enough. So rest at the end as long as necessary to enable a smooth transition from meditation to activity. You may even wish to lie down for a while at the end of meditation. Everyone is different. Find what is the best for you coming out of meditation. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 7:02:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vd007
...
I had stomach pain and headaches when I did them.
...
My question is after 10 min foreplay and half an hour of tantric sex I feel very tired during the next day.
...
Does anyone have any method where one can have tantric sex and not feel tired at all?
Hi vd007 :)
This is my analysis and recommendation, it is my own opinion.
Do you go for medical checkups? It is always a good idea to get a checkup just to make sure that there is not something wrong with the body first. How is your blood pressure? Have you been sick recently? Have you been checked for hepatitis? If you do ejaculate, do you check the color of the ejaculate? If the color is not whitish and normal looking it is an indication that you might have energy sickness. Hopefully the color is not red or dark brown..
The common opinion is that celibacy or tantric sex with retention is supposed to vitalize the body. So what is going wrong here (assuming no physical ailments)?
I believe your lower tan tien is blocked and it is not delivering the prana like it should. This 'stomach pain' that you got when doing AYP, was it lower down by your navel area? That is the lower tan tien. If so, the pain indicates that the AYP practices were helping to open it up (assuming you were practicing it with proper technique).
The pain in the head also indicates that you were getting some prana up into the head during the AYP practices and it was starting to open that area up. Did you also feel pressure in the head? Did you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth to help circulate the prana? How long did you practice AYP I AM/SB before you stopped?
In my opinion, the root chakra/perineum is like a buffer for the prana that comes into the body from the lower tan tien. When you deplete that prana in the root, normally the lower tan tien will fill it back up, or it will also fill back up more slowly from the other tan tiens (upper and middle) or from food or breath.. but this is a longer procedure especially if you don't circulate (mc orbit) or practice any pranayama.
If your lower tan tien is blocked or partially blocked, and even though you practice retention, there is very little prana coming into the body from your lower tan tien after tantric sex practices. Tantric sex does consume prana, just not as much as ejaculatory sex. Because of this block, your root isn't filling back up in normal time periods and this is causing your tiredness.
I would seriously consider doing the AYP practices again. Usually the pain from a blockage clearing feels very sharp, like a knife stab and it might last a while, but it will go away after the blockage is released.
Again, this post is my personal opinion, take it or leave it.
:)
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vd007
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2009 : 12:20:55 PM
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Victor
Kirtanman
mikkiji
Shanti
Tibetan_Ice
Thanks a bunch for these helpful insights and sparing the time to help me. |
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vd007
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2009 : 1:03:43 PM
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The Holdback method leaves me with lacking energy. There is an increase in energy just afterwards lasting 1 to 2 hour and then I start feeling tired and it continues the next day. I am told by some authors of tantra that the energy should be taken to the head and brought down using either Microcosmic orbit or spinal breathing pranayama. I try to do either intermittent Microcosmic orbit or spinal breathing pranayama (and never both) like 2-3 times during pauses and not totaling more than 15-20 in a session. When I do that I can take energy up to head (or the 3rd eye as in spinal breathing pranamyama) but its difficult to bring the energy down. Most of the times I don’t feel there is any energy in the head area which can be brought down. The problem here is that I feel weird and heavy in my head and fell spaced out after an hour or 2 and the next day.It kinda sucks the joy out of the life.
Another issue is when I do tantra session for 0.5 hours, it feels so good I just do know when to stop and don’t want to stop. I want to do more sessions with my partner. That’s all I want to do. The testosterone flow feels so good, I just want to keep going and when I do that I end up being spaced and with heavy head and feeling weird. Even when doing 0.5 hours sessions every day I feel spaced out. Is Half an hour a day too much ?
So my questions are
1. I guess everyone must have a frequency and duration of tantric sex sessions that doesn’t make them loose energy and feel weird. Can that be shared? How much is too much.
2. Would intermittent Microcosmic orbit or spinal breathing pranayama like 2-3 times during pauses and not totaling more than 15-20 during a session avoid the energy loss the next day, heavy head and spaced out feelings.
3. If so how to bring energy down and also how to store the energy in the navel (per Taoism recommendations) after a session? .
4. Tantric books state you can have sex for hours and for as long as you want. I know this is possible but I believe they fail to state the overload symptoms that follow. So the question is
is it possible to have sex for hours and for as long as you want without any negative side effects?
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2009 : 11:04:37 AM
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A meditation called the secret smile which you can find instructions for at thetaobums.com is very effective at smoothing out all sorts of problems that comes from other meditations and practices. It is used in the KAP system as a safety and as a preparation for kundalini awakening. The exact same practice is found in several different traditions with exactly this purpose but has mostly been secret, probably because of the orgasm part. What it does basicly is take the feeling of relaxation, confidence, happiness, love and orgasm or bliss (you can choose if you know what bliss is) and push it throughall the meridians and then store it in the dan tien. From the dan tien it after a while (for me at least) shoots this same energy back out through all the meridians with ten times the power you generated at first. This serves several purposes. It has a body scan effect and it centers you in the dan tien which is always nice, it really cleanses all the channels and clears out a lot of stuff, very importantly it leaves you feeling realxed, confident, happy loving and blissfull whenever you want and this makes practices so much safer, finally when after running all the feelings seperately you combine them all into on exctatic energy and push it through the channels it makes your channels acustomed to intense powerfull bliss running through it hence preparing you for kundalini.
THis might be a double edged sword as the secret smile does make things progress faster and does bring up lots of old emotional stuff so safe pacing wise you have to be carefull with your total amount of practices, but it is used very successfully as a way to smooth things out, whatever the problem may be. So in lack of any clear understanding of what exactly is causing you these problems I think this might be a good thing to try. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2009 : 11:49:51 AM
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Hi vd007,
thanks for an interesting post. You seem to have purified you nadis a lot, but I wouldn't rule out a partial Kundalini awakening - Kundalini not flowing freely without obstructions all the way up. I usually feel energized afterwards but I've also experienced a feeling similar to yours, sometimes related to plain physical exhaustion.
It's worth trying some 'male' activity for a while such as sports, forest work, hikes, climbing, swimming, etc., to recharge the male pole afterwards, because even preorgasmic sex tends to smooth out some of the polarity between male and female energy.
As one's detachment grows through tantra, it may even turn into a dispassion ('nothing but a witness' - which is OK, IMHO.) or even total indifference towards the outside world and an overall lack of inspiration (which seems tamasic to me); some tantra books say one shall always continue to practice, witnessing the shifts in the state of mind, until inspiration an energy come back. The world is cyclic, for sure, although darkness might feel extremely dark right before daybreak.
It's also wise to pay attention to self pacing, diet, sleep and everyday habits despite zero enthusiasm at that point in time :-)
I didn't think tamas might be connected to duration of the tantra encounter, anything from 1 to 10 or 15 hrs (with some breaks) felt fine. But having read your post, I certainly will keep an eye on quality of those hours (especially towards the finish).
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2010 : 09:37:13 AM
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hello,people think that if they have sex and dont ejaculate they will save the energy,thats not reality,even if you dont ejaculate,the overproduction of hormones that implies to have sex or even to think about sex, will defenetely pay energy taxes ,and consecuently body deterioration. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 2:35:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
hello,people think that if they have sex and dont ejaculate they will save the energy,thats not reality,even if you dont ejaculate,the overproduction of hormones that implies to have sex or even to think about sex, will defenetely pay energy taxes ,and consecuently body deterioration.
Hi Omarkaya,
I think non-ejac is only one part of it. That's why AYP teaches meditation, pranayama, and relaxation, too. Along with that, some non-ejac tantra techniques can make you satisfied even without ejaculation; so the problem here might come from depolarization because of many hours of preorg. sex. It's wise to practice the rest of the AYP package proportionally, to avoid risks. |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 10:24:26 AM
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| Hello hathateacher,well all these techniques offcourse are good but it doesnt solves the problem.unfortunately sex implies a waste of energy ,you can look it the way you want, sorry but this is a simple truth.im not advocating against it by no means when i say that.sure the AYP lessons would be a great help for people. |
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Feeling very tired after tantric sex
