|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 04:16:48 AM
|
Hi. Just a few personal notes here on how I refined the I am, and the small, but noticeable, results I am experiencing.
When I first started Deep Meditation, I was saying "I AM" aloud in my head repeatedly. I read somewhere on the board that you should allow the mantra to refine itself. I found this quite annoying, I was like "what the hell does that mean??!!"
But I think I've gradually found out, and perhaps this is of help to other newbies. Well first I began listening inside myself, and hearing "i am" whispered inside me.
I begin just listening for whispers of I am inside me. Then I allow myself just to feel the intention of I am.
It's not easy to explain this, but if I was to tell you "hear 'i am' inside yourself” just before you actually allowed the sound of “i am” to arise, there would be an intention within you of allowing “i am” to arise.
Chronologically there is:
1) You are not thinking of anything to do with ‘i am’
2) You have the intention to think of ‘i am’
3) ‘i am’ is clearly thought of and heard within you.
I allow my mind just to brush over the intention of ‘I am’ as though I’m just gently touching it. Each time my thought wanders, I just gently bring back the intention of ‘i am’. It’s very subtle.
The results I’m having are: brushing over the intention is extremely stilling on my mind. It’s very engrossing and quite enjoyable. I feel an “inner smile” within me, almost as though I want to laugh joyfully.
In addition, one other note that might just be useful, although we’re all different of course:
I’m only really doing about 3 minutes of SBP, and 9 minutes of DM. I don’t use a watch or anything, I just go with the time that feels pleasant and natural within me. If I go longer than this, it doesn’t feel pleasant, it feels like an uphill struggle. Just going with what is pleasant and natural to me has allowed me to build practicing into my routine, in such a way that I cannot wait to do my meditation, hence it’s becoming a habit that is here to stay. I expect the time I do it for will grow as the habit becomes more cemented in my routine.
If I try and push it to a longer time, when it feels unpleasant and unnatural, then I find I just end up skipping meditation altogether because I don’t want to do it. Perhaps that may be useful for anyone to consider.
It’s my impression that it’s better to meditate every day, twice a day, than it is to force yourself to go for long periods that feel uncomfortable and then end up having an irregular routine where you miss meditation sessions. |
|
|
miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 06:04:00 AM
|
quote:
It’s my impression that it’s better to meditate every day, twice a day, than it is to force yourself to go for long periods that feel uncomfortable and then end up having an irregular routine where you miss meditation sessions
I absolutely agree. Short session adapted to your own pace are the best option here.Along the days and weeks,i feel the accumulated effects coming from that short sittings.
Smooth process and progress.Self pacing is an art that we must learn to do.
Sometimes,like this morning,i feel i have touch my limit and i dont practice.I try to take contact with reality of this world.And this is a real practice also.Grounding.
Then,at evening i feel the need for dm again and return to it.
|
Edited by - miguel on Jul 20 2009 07:31:07 AM |
 |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 3:11:34 PM
|
Hi Mr. Anderson....
Not sure how long you have been doing AYP DM, but if you have already figured out the "refining" of the mantra and have only been here since Feb 16th '09, then you are a much faster learner then I!!! It took me several months of twice daily DM meditation to finally understand what it means to let the mantra "refine"....I've also heard it said that the "mantra does you, not you doing the mantra". Same thing I think. Hard to grasp with the mind though....I too felt the same way when I first heard/read about letting the mantra refine...."What the eff does that mean!?!?!" Glad to hear you have found some of the subtler qualities of AYP DM. Continue on my friend!
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 5:24:56 PM
|
I wish I knew what you're talking about... I've never been able to sense the "intention of I AM" or any subtlety of it! Far too noisy as yet in my head after over 3 years of meditation! So Carson, you must be a faster learner than me, then!  |
Edited by - emc on Jul 20 2009 5:32:32 PM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 5:32:40 PM
|
 |
|
|
|
cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 5:53:16 PM
|
Great insights, Mr. Anderson! You are getting the hang of it
I find it effective to mentally whisper "I Am" and let it gradually get softer over the DM period, until it becomes like a silent pulse. The end result is pretty much the same...
With Love
cosmic |
|
|
|
kaserdar
91 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 04:44:58 AM
|
Hello all
I have a couple of questions at this point, i would be glad to hear your opinions.
First of all can't we have any benefit from the DM unless we feel the mantra doing itself?
Yogani says in the main lesson;
"When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently go back to it. This is all you have to do. Easily repeat the mantra silently inside. When you realize you are not thinking it, then easily come back to it"
So what i understand is its like a combined processes first repeating the mantra and thinking it. Is what you say there is no repeating so only listening to it?
Listening and thinking are they meant to be same?
Can this listening to the mantra like hearing a song playing in head? You know sometimes happens that a recently listened song plays itself in head without your effort and you just listen to it.
Thank you very much |
|
|
|
mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 05:16:12 AM
|
Thanks for all your comments, interesting to hear! Yes I suppose it came quite quickly. I hope progress continues at a similar rate!
Hi Cosmic - yeah that's basically exactly what I do. I allow it to start as a whisper, and then allow it to refine to a pulse. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 07:25:51 AM
|
kaserdar,
Thanks for your post and question and reminder! Yes, from own experience I must say it's very beneficial to think the mantra also, starting it over and over again! It will bring you forward and open to the Stillness as well!
Eventually you might feel inclined to test to see if the mantra comes by itself after having started it off, and just listen to it, and then it will still come in as a "sounding voice" saying I AM, perhaps as a whisper or in any form. Sometimes it does for me, sometimes it doesn't. According to the gentlemen here, it can also refine further into more and more subtle levels. 
My sessions are so varied, still! Sometimes I bluntly say I AM 'outwards' not even being able to drop it 'inwards' and I meditate that way just for keeping the habit of doing DM twice daily, but it's as shallow as can be. Sometimes I start off the mantra, can hear it come back automatically "the mantra doing me"... and sometimes I then drop deep in the midst of it and come back after 2-3 hours... I've never felt any "refinement to fine pulse" as described here, though. |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 07:40:55 AM
|
Mantra refined to the point of letting go of it completely silent then turning up the volume a bit when I think you have lost it.
It's a sort of 'letting go' of 'letting go'. I pay it no mind at all now, the practise just is, as breathing just is. You don't conciously think about breathing until you suddenly think about breathing, until that time you give it no thought at all and you are unaware of it.
I have to say, for those who are at this point I found the book 'Loving what is' to be the final key to understanding that being without the thought is what is important. Your learning to hear/think/feel/ see the thought without attaching to it. Like watching a cloud in the sky, you are not the cloud although it is part of you.
I suddenly grasped what was being said in the Gita and the Bible. Turn the other cheek has nothing to do with a phsical response to violence and everything to do with realising what the thought actually is and examining it.
Thanks very much to those that pointed the direction out, I am eternally grateful  |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2009 : 10:41:25 AM
|
Hi Kaserdar....
quote:
Originally posted by kaserdar
First of all can't we have any benefit from the DM unless we feel the mantra doing itself?
Yes of course....Personally I think there are several "layers" or "levels" to DM. The first level or layer in my opinion would be using the mantra to learn Dharana...the ability to concentrate on one object. This is the first benefit of DM IME. Then with the ability to concentrate on one object for an extended period of time the mantra starts to take on a more subtle benefit...that of Dhyana....merging with that object of concentration/mantra. I think this is basically where the mantra really starts to "refine". Then comes samadhi or absorbtion in pure conciousness....the benefit of a refined mantra. There are other benefits too that take place in all three stages like: purification of the subtle body through the vibration of the mantra, and that connection to the inner silence or the "gaps" between the mantra repetitions etc. And please keep in mind that this is just how I personally see the general benefits of DM. This is not "the way it is", just the way it is for me.....I'm sure other peoples' experiences with the mantra are not going to always be the same as mine.
quote:
Originally posted by kaserdar
Listening and thinking are they meant to be same?
I think there is a difference. Listening to the mantra is not something that I think everyone can do at every level of DM. It is something that sort of happens along the way. Use Yogani's instructions for DM....repeat the mantra, and when you find yourself off of it, gently come back to it. This will train your mind to concentrate on one object. Once you can do that for an extended period of time then you may start to notice the mantra "repeating itself".....and then you might notice that you start to "hear" the mantra and don't really have to "think" it, or concsiously repeat it the same way you used to. All there needs to be is an intention. But you can't just jump right into this IMO.....it is something that is more of a side effect of a stable and long term practice IMO. So don't worry about the "semantics" involved right now and just follow Yogani's instructions for optimal benefit. The rest will fall into place as it is meant to.
Hope this helps some.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 03:25:19 AM
|
| Karl - glad you are enjoying "Loving What Is". It's been useful for me also. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 04:12:47 AM
|
quote:
repeat the mantra, and when you find yourself off of it, gently come back to it. This will train your mind to concentrate on one object.
Hm. This never happens to me. Wonder why. As soon as I put this to a deliberate "training" in my intention instead of just easily repeating it, there is a lot of tension. My aim has been to reduce tension while repeating the mantra, and then there is no effect of greater concentration just by repeatingly coming back to the mantra... Sigh. I'm known for having done all of the practices wrong, I guess I still haven't gotten the point of it... I've been lucky enough to have been taken along the road by pure grace I think...
What really takes me deep, is when I listen to the mantra and it comes back very distinct and loud as a male choir with dark base voices chant AYAAAAAMAYAAAAAMAYAAAAAM etc almost with throat singing, and it feels as if there's whole room of tibetan monks or something taking me with them... then it all goes *swoosh* down to the deep...  |
|
|
|
grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 08:21:40 AM
|
The mantra has refined itself for me along very similar lines to the ones described by Mr Anderson. What hasn't changed - actually it's got worse - is a rather profound unease with the mantra itself. I haven't learned to accept 'I Am' at all. If anything I find it disturbing. The sense that it's somehow self-serving and self-centered (by that I mean gri-centered and not Self-centered) just doesn't go away.
Meanwhile I derive great feelings of bliss and other energetic effects from it. So I'm torn.
This must be something deep in my spiritual system. It's a pain - I wish I could just get on with it, but it's actually started to feel as if my spiritual progress is being damaged. |
|
|
|
gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 08:30:24 AM
|
Is this the real life? I AM
Is this just f (I AM) antasy
(I AM) caught in a landslide
no escape (I AM) from reality (I AM)
Open your e (I AM)ye's
look (I AM) up to the skies and s(IAM)ee
I'm just a poor boy (I AM)
I need no sympathy (I AM)
Because i'm easy come (I AM) easy go (IAM)
little high (i am)
little low (I am)
Jeepers, i sometimes wish i never had a brain at all with all that noise... da da de da da de dad de da dada dad ded ed
Then there are the guitar solos interspersed with I AM. If i could record the sound of this it would make some good comedy i think.
Seriously, my best meditation was when i just spoke the words I AM and didn't really try to intone them, and lessen the tension of the whole process by not having to make it rhythmic but just picking it up again very gently when the attention goes off it (like Yogani says again and again). After a while it goes "fuzzy" (that is the best word that has been used to describe it i think) and you try to stay awake. Sometimes i have seemed to fall asleep and quickly woken up "hearing" myself saying I AM. It's all cute and everything but these days i want to permeate my entire subconscious with thoughts of God so that getting into the twilight state of sleepy but aware might force God to give me some nice experiences (sorry God, you know i love you).
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 10:50:27 AM
|
Hi emc....
quote:
Originally posted by emc
quote:
repeat the mantra, and when you find yourself off of it, gently come back to it. This will train your mind to concentrate on one object.
Hm. This never happens to me. Wonder why.
Because it isn't necessary for you? I was trying to say with my post above that this is only how it is for me, not how it will be for everyone and wasn't trying to indicate that this is "proper" or the way it "should" happen.....Actually I did say; "please keep in mind that this is just how I personally see the general benefits of DM. This is not "the way it is", just the way it is for me.....I'm sure other peoples' experiences with the mantra are not going to always be the same as mine." but this was at the end of the first paragraph and I realize now should have been at the end of the second instead. Sorry.
It isn't necessary to have your DM experience unfold the way mine has in order to gain deep benefits from the practice. Your experience proves this. I don't think there is anything worth "wondering" over here
quote:
Originally posted by emc
As soon as I put this to a deliberate "training" in my intention instead of just easily repeating it, there is a lot of tension.
Yes I can imagine this would cause this...but to clarify a little, I wasn't trying to say that you should "try" to train your mind using the mantra....I was just saying that this is what happened for me as a "side effect" of the practice....I wasn't "trying" to train the mind. I used to explain my state of mind to others as "hyper-aware", and I truly believe this was how I was for most of my life....hyper aware yet always thinking a thousand thoughts at the same time. It was quite frustrating for me before I learned to "let go" of certain things....I would notice things going on around me that noone else seemed to notice and it would drive me nuts that I seemed to be the only "aware" person on the planet....yet if someone asked me what I was thinking about I couldn't tell them in a single answer...I was always thinking about dozens and dozens of things at the same time....once starting a practice of twice daily Deep Meditation I developed the capability to concentrate on one "thought" or one "thing" at a time. This was revelatory for me personally....and the beginning of the more subtle benefits of DM for me. This will not be the way it is for everyone....but it was the way it was for me.....doesn't make it the "right" way or the "wrong" way...only how it was for me.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
My aim has been to reduce tension while repeating the mantra, and then there is no effect of greater concentration just by repeatingly coming back to the mantra...
Seems like a pretty admirable "aim" to me! Reducing tension is as great a benefit as learning to concentrate on one thing at a time IMO. Probably even more of a benefit depending on how you look at it.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Sigh. I'm known for having done all of the practices wrong, I guess I still haven't gotten the point of it... I've been lucky enough to have been taken along the road by pure grace I think...
Known by who? Only by yourself likely Can you REALLY be doing the practices "wrong"? I think the intention behind your meditations likely gives you as much benefit from the practice as the practice itself. Doesn't matter that our "side effects" of the practice don't match.....we are both still benefitting right? And yes....ALL that happens is due to Grace...including the benefits of DM that have manifested for both you and me.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
What really takes me deep, is when I listen to the mantra and it comes back very distinct and loud as a male choir with dark base voices chant AYAAAAAMAYAAAAAMAYAAAAAM etc almost with throat singing, and it feels as if there's whole room of tibetan monks or something taking me with them... then it all goes *swoosh* down to the deep...
Sounds awesome! I have been using the second mantra enhancement for a while now, so I don't get anything like this.... I do occasionally have the mantra line up to a "song structure" sometimes though....although I do not try to have this happen, it just does.
Wishing you a blissful Tuesday!
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 12:38:54 PM
|
| Thank you, Carson, for a nice post. It's great to have travel fellows like you along the ride! |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 1:24:32 PM
|
There is no wrong way to do these practises except for the path laid out in AYP and even then it does not mean you should follow it.
I strongly recommend those who feel they struggle because of the though 'there is this right way' should read 'Loving What Is'.
Which ever way you do what you do, is exactly and precisely the way that you should be doing it. When the thought comes up that you are not doing it right ask 'Is that really True?' and see how the answer can only be that you don't know that it is true as you can't possibly know, in other words NO!
Ask yourself who you would be without the thought ? and find that you can only be you doing meditation without thought. You are already doing it, you can only be doing it right because you are doing it that way.
I also struggled with this thought, with the idea of living in the now, with the idea of the Witness until I read the book and realised that even these were concepts.
There is only you, you are exactly what you have always been, you are that, no more and no less. When you realise this, then you will realise you have found God or whatever you want to call that, that simply is. Right where you stand. Except for the constant thoughts drifting by that convince otherwise.
Everyone has their own way in this, their own path, to their own tune, everyone is their own Guru, until we realise and internalise the truth.
|
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 1:28:20 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
Karl - glad you are enjoying "Loving What Is". It's been useful for me also.
For me it was the key in the lock, I think it was always waiting for me. It combines all those things that came out of my NLP training, Time line Therapy, hypnotic language, provocative therapy, Meditation, self inquiry, quantum physics etc and turned it all into 4 simple questions.
If it looks simple then it's right. |
|
|
|
cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2009 : 10:14:47 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by karl
If it looks simple then it's right.
Is that really true? |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2009 : 09:18:15 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
quote:
Originally posted by karl
If it looks simple then it's right.
Is that really true?
for me it is as it causes me no concern. If I had said that "it appears too easy and it should be harder, or that it seems too hard and it should be easy then that wouldbe a different matter.
As it is, it is exactly how it is and perfect for right now in that exact way. How could it be any other ?
When others mention having songs going around in their heads they are probably thinking that they shouldn't have songs in their heads while doing meditation when they really cannot truly know that is not EXACTLY how it is meant to be for them. It's only when you welcome the songs as intirely normal and natural, when you stop fighting against reality. Without the thought 'these songs should not exist'makes it easy to accept the songs, once accepted, like the constant noise of passing trains, they are suddenly ignored. |
|
|
|
grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2009 : 9:02:20 PM
|
Everything back on track - thanks to Konchok Osel Dorje!
Love & Peace,
gri |
|
|
|
samara
Iceland
31 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 10:59:12 PM
|
I just wanted to give my feedback. I was struggling with the I AM. Repeating it seemed to keep my mind busy instead of making it quiet down.
After reading this post I decided to try to listen for it instead.
And YES!
Thanks a lot |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
How I refine "I am"
