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brauniver
Switzerland
42 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 11 2005 : 5:27:16 PM
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The new "hype" in spirituality seems to be DEEKSHA (Diksha). I will try to explain in short for those who have never heard about that.
There is a men called Bhagavan in India. His wife is called Amma.He claims to be an Avatar whose mission is to enlight whole of mankind until the year 2012.[LOL] So he really seems to be megalomaniac. Because the world is changing since some years and we passed kali yuga and entered into satya yuga (the golden age)it's possible to get enlightement easy and fast. He is producing hundreds of "enlighted" people per week. It can best be described as a neuro-biological shift in the brain. So we become detached or de-clutched from our mind.
Bhagavan says that you cannot attain a full state of enlightenment through your own efforts, although you can get close. Full enlightenment is a state that must be given to you! It's divine grace! 
You can pass a 21-day retreat in India. Then you can give Dikshas too to other people to enlighten them step by step. There is a critical mass of 64,000 people in the world who should be enlighted in order that all others can get enlightment too without even searching for it themselves. The costs for the 21-Day retreat is for american and european 5000 Dollar. For africans or other poor people it's free. So you kind of pay for them because the network must be all over the world.
There is a lot more to say about that but better inform yourself on other pages.
http://www.onenessuniversity.org/
http://www.trueawakening.org/
http://www.livinginjoy.com/en/avatars
Isn't that crazy? You pay 5000 Dollar for enlightement! Or is it just stupid if you do that? 
In the Ashram I'm living at the moment we have this Deeksha-Hype. One person has done this 21-day retreat and is living here. Some others sometimes come here to give Dikshas as well. It really polarizes.
These are the objective facts claimed by Bhagavan and his disciple!
Now my story. I could make it very long but I make it short:
I was a big doubter. How can you pay for enlightement? I found Yogani-Yoga and I'm practicing it. That is all I need ( I "throw" away all other Kundalini and Kriya Yoga practices I was practicing since years step by step). Several weeks I didn't join the Deekshas. Then I joined once. What the person did is she hold her hands on my head - for about 1 Minute. The meditation was nice. That was it for the moment.
Some hours later I got sick, VERY sick. I laid in bed for 30 hours. A lot of pain. I dont list the symtoms, just believe me. Then within 3 hours I was well up again. Ok, nice.... but I could not believe it. So I immediately took another Diksha to proof it.
The Deeksha was nice... just nice not more.
The next day was completely different. I was changed. Just Happiness. Why? No idea! Causeless! The only "mantra" I had on my lips was "What is going on with me is NOT POSSIBLE, IMPOSSIBLE, IMPOSSIBLE". But the experience was completely different.
In my practices I now come much deeper. Things which were difficult for me to do are now just happening automatically. I will take some more Deekshas the next days and see what is going on.
That is in very simple words my story. But others have similar storys.
oli
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Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 02 2007 12:59:51 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2005 : 5:31:00 PM
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Evaluate again six months from now.
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2005 : 08:40:57 AM
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Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste Mumukshu,
All Progress is welcomed.
Pranams,
Ekam Sad Viprah Bahudha Vadanti - Truth is ONE; Sages call it variously. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 07:40:00 AM
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I think this is very interesting and it would be nice to hear from braunvier if anything more has happened.
Diksha is very big in Sweden right now. I have been in a room where they gave diksha and my crown just went crazy and I felt a bit sick. But I have never heard of anyone reporting permanent changes from it.
On the contrary, most of my (former) informers in spirituality have just sighed and said "same old stuff people have tried for ages, but with another name". Though, I haven't really understood what it is. Is it "loading down high frequenze energy" to feel boosted for a while? One can play rather much with energies and create a lot of different moods or conditions. But they seldom bring more awareness - only a moments relief.
Does anyone now more about this? Have any opinions? |
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 08:14:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
On the contrary, most of my (former) informers in spirituality have just sighed and said "same old stuff people have tried for ages, but with another name". Though, I haven't really understood what it is. Is it "loading down high frequenze energy" to feel boosted for a while? One can play rather much with energies and create a lot of different moods or conditions. But they seldom bring more awareness - only a moments relief.
Does anyone now more about this? Have any opinions?
hmmmmmmmmm guys
thanks again for this post..........Now I know why used to put my han over certain people heads and also why I used to feel those strange winds and energy movements......
I know understand another power..........
The resultant from this is that most people feel blissful for about 2weeks ........
This is my observation from myself and devotees that attend
I do hope brauniver keep us updated
Goodday
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 09:09:42 AM
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| Diksha isn't full enlightenment. These people are paying 5000 dollars for something that can be given for free from the "inner guru". |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 11:33:52 AM
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What about us poor Westerners? We may all be well of because we live in "fat" countries but some of us struggle with a few thousand a year. Need more reports on this. I'm sceptical. If this were true and needed by 2012 then it would be given out free, post-haste. Pay back would be the manifestation of God-consciousness and a new world. If the money is upgrading living situations for the poor that's wonderful. But if all became "enlightened" whether or not they could pay, then they would naturally want to support such social service, don't you think? Wouldn't that type of awakening bring about radical shifts in social consciousness and roles of governments & etc.? This sounds like a scheme of some with siddhis who are using the date of 2012 to promote their own agenda. On the other hand, if it's true, then hallelujia, we're saved, that is if enough can come up with the cash |
Edited by - Balance on Oct 11 2006 11:38:42 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 12:05:53 PM
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Smmmummmm, goofffffmmmm, mmm nngggg, bshhhhnngggg! bngnnnnn, shmmmmmmmmng, brrnnnnnnnnnnnngg, knnnnnn!!
[That was the sound of Obsidian being muffled because this is not the place to speak what he wants to say. ] |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 12:07:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Smmmummmm, goofffffmmmm, mmm nngggg, bshhhhnngggg! bngnnnnn, shmmmmmmmmng, brrnnnnnnnnnnnngg, knnnnnn!!
[That was the sound of Obsidian being muffled because this is not the place to speak what he wants to say. ]
HA HA HA  ...
Sorry Guys.. couldn't help it...
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Edited by - Shanti on Oct 11 2006 12:08:20 PM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 12:29:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Smmmummmm, goofffffmmmm, mmm nngggg, bshhhhnngggg! bngnnnnn, shmmmmmmmmng, brrnnnnnnnnnnnngg, knnnnnn!!
[That was the sound of Obsidian being muffled because this is not the place to speak what he wants to say. ]
Me being telepathic, I think he wanted to say something like:
mmgjkjd ddkd ddd dkjdjkdh swowoopw
(oops, Wolfgang got muffled and bashed  )
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 12:58:10 PM
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Well Unfotunately I have read some horror stories about this 'diksha' that is going about and one of their closest followers who is from Sweden(Freddie Neilsen) has left them.Lot of controversy here also about people giving all their money up and ending up with nothing.If you need to pay large sums of money??????As the saying goes ' if it sounds to good to be true, then it probably isn't'
L&L
Dave |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 1:39:37 PM
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| Ah-ha! Just as i thought Watson, we're being duped! Uh, can I get a refund? |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 01:26:28 AM
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5000 dollars singles out who gets to be enlightened. The majority in this planet does not have that much money to risk, so they are really marketing a product for the minority upper class.
If they were true masters they would enlighten all the mothers in the world, for free.
When people have less attachment to their money, after being enlightened, they'd have no problem donating the appropriate sum.
We cannot forget the powerful of belief, how it hinders and how it enables. |
Edited by - Kyman on Oct 12 2006 05:55:11 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 07:03:49 AM
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| In Sweden you can get diksha for free or for a low donation. The question remains... what is it? Play with energies? |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 07:08:25 AM
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David,
I'm curious to hear what you wanted to say. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 08:12:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
In Sweden you can get diksha for free or for a low donation. The question remains... what is it? Play with energies?
Diksha is when a guru initiates you into spirituality and gives you a guru mantra. The mantra is supposed to be what your system needs in this life time to move ahead in your path. Different people get different mantras.. depending on how far they have travelled in this journey(based on life times). I am not sure if any kind of "play of energy" is involved in this.. I don't think so.. its not like shaktipath.. but I may be wrong. Yes, diksha is supposed to be given for free.. you are supposed to give your guru, guru dakshina.. a form of payment.. could be anything from money, gold, rice, fruits, other items of food, clothing, cows, and or anything else your guru asks for.. which could be $5000 I guess.. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 10:50:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
David,
I'm curious to hear what you wanted to say.
Fair enough. I suppose I can make this general enough to be admissable.
When spiritual groups start charging exhorbitantly for services, there is usually one of the following going on:
1. They are unscrupulous, greedy and sociopathic abusers.
2. If not sociopathic, they are greedy, and don't necessarily realize it.
3. They are deluded; they have become enormously inflated about their powers and role in life.
4. (Actually most common of all) Some combination of the above.
The client to such groups is often deceived by an attractive veneer of sacropiety, and enlightenment. On exposure to the guru, they get some perhaps profound spiritual experience, and they get the guru-goo-goos.
It is important to understand the following: if exposure to a particular person initiates a strong, positive, enlightenment experience in you, that in itself implies nothing good about that person; that person could have any level of badness about them; they could even still be an evil sociopath. Dark, twisted evil people, can charm your bhakti up, just as a prostitute can charm you into sexual arousal. And like prostitutes, they make a business out of it and get very good at it.
Genuine, profound spiritual experience does not imply that the person who caused it in you is pure and truthful.
And yet, that assumption always gets made. And it's a deadly assumption. That purity, that love you feel on exposure to a person, does not mean that that love is theirs. It means it is yours. It means it's inside you, and available.
It's also important to understand that, even if they are not extremely unscrupulous abusers of the kind of 1. above, they can still be gray-area abusers of the kind of 2. 3. and 4.
It's also important to understand that greed is not at all necessarily confined to keeping money for your personal self. Some apologists for certain cults, for example, made a big thing that 'All their founder owned, he could carry in a suitcase'. This means absolutely nothing; this gets no-one off the hook -- you can be greedy for your mission or your group. Various Abbots before the Reformation were notorious for being focused on gaining riches and power for their abbeys, even though they may have personally owned even less of it than you could carry in a suitcase. That was greed, plain and simple.
And if the delusion is there, the greed is almost certain to follow. When you are on a mission from God, grabbing all you can to make that mission bigger seems to be the right thing to do.
So watch out for exhorbitant fees!
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 12 2006 1:36:05 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 11:17:07 AM
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Great reply, David. You have a knack for putting things in quite clear terms.
You've posted a couple of times that not many people appreciate the skeptic...well I am one of the ones who do appreciate it. If yoga were a team sport I'd definitely want to be on your side. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 12:35:45 PM
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me2  |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 12:40:11 PM
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Thanks guys. I appreciate it!
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2006 : 3:07:44 PM
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Hi Guys,
Well David knows my views on guru's or particularly mine anyway.We have crossed swords often about guru bashing when I have felt that he has unfairly generalised them in one pot but I must agree with you David on your post. Not that I needed you to spell it out any further than Smmmummmm, goofffffmmmm, mmm nngggg, bshhhhnngggg! bngnnnnn, shmmmmmmmmng, brrnnnnnnnnnnnngg, knnnnnn!!
I knew exactly what that translates as.Unfortunately when one hears of people being ripped off, abused or any of the other niceties then it makes it difficult for the genuine gurus to have any credibility and the losers are the genuine seekers who look at a guru and dismiss his teachings for fear of being ripped off.How many have missed out on a genuine acceleration in their path because of this? Only losers here, no winners.
I have read recently of some who have received diksha from some of these followers and who's energy systems have been damaged because of it.Having been involved in energy work for a number of years I would caution anyone from allowing others to tamper with their energy systems unless you know their credentials.I know from the abilities I have been gifted with that it is possible to manipulate anothers energy system (even without permission which is very naughty)that there are dangers involved on both sides.
L&L
Dave |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2006 : 4:20:09 PM
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Hi there,
I am new to this forum, and I just posted a general hello in the satsang cafe. I thought I could add something to this post. Deeksha means initiation in sanskrit I believe. I also think that in this case it is a form of energy practice where the person giving the deeksha creates (with their imagination) a ball of white light in the base of the spine and then slowly raises the ball of light up the spine. This would have the result of activating the chakras on the way up. I don't know if they go all the way up to the top but it sounds like they do as so many have had crown chakra experiences. This could account for the getting very sick thing that so many experience as it would bring about rapid purification. People are then told (as far as I know) to do nothing for one month after which time they will experience oneness (the sense of unity experience that comes as a stage on the path of enlightenment). I have met many people who have paid the $5000 and been through the experience. I have not done it myself. I should mention that the giving of deeksha in the cases of the people I met, happened at the end of a very intensive 21 day spiritual retreat involving many different practices.
"So does it work", I hear you cry!
Well... I think the answer is the same as with any spiritual practice or teaching... it depends on the person. If someone is ready and ripe and has already done a lot of purification and meditation practices, then yes, it probably does. But then so could hearing the lords name mentioned once, or listening to devotional music. For people who are not ready, it definately is not a quick fix, and I have met many dissolusioned (and a little angry) people who got their expectations up (not without reason,) and then felt more than a little let down.
What happens to the money? I think it is being used to build a huge new temple near Madras.
Something does sound wierd to me, as there are many people in the west who could not dream of having $5000 to spend on a three week retreat, and more than just a few in Africa and Asia, who could easily afford that amount if they had to pay it.
If anyone has any more informed knowledge to add about the process or the actual results experienced by people who have been through it over the long term, I (and I'm sure others here) would be very interested to hear.
Christi. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 02:10:56 AM
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I just spoke to a woman who have been taking deeksha for 2 years. She does not experience very much. She mentioned that when others fall down in bliss, she just says "Aha, so that was it?" No particular progress in two years...
Bernie Prior was asked about deeksha at a satsang and he just said "Why do you need anyone to hold a hand on your head to give you something you already have inside you?" |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2006 : 09:31:12 AM
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Bernie Prior was asked about deeksha at a satsang and he just said "Why do you need anyone to hold a hand on your head to give you something you already have inside you?"
Unfortunately, something similar can be said for any practice, including going to satsang with Bernie Prior. So that one hardly seems to be a fair comment on deeksha, but more like a spiritual 'pat' answer.
Deeksha could be useful in certain cases as a catalyst, but what is wrong with the whole picture is the hype. It's just built up to be bigger than it is.
And one huge limitation of the practice is that it doesn't produce sustained development, rather only a peak experience.
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2007 : 12:59:51 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Jillie
1 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2007 : 2:03:52 PM
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I have received deeksha from this group and had my crown chakra open wide. At the moment it occurred, I didn’t know what had happened, but felt the sort of funnel shaped energy coming out of the top of my head. It was only on reflecting on it that I realized what had happened. It was a blissful experience, but the other writers are correct that it did not last. On the other hand, outside of a little emotional release and feeling a little spacey, nothing bad happened to me. Certainly I realize that they were a catalyst for what was ready in me to unfold (or familiar from a previous life). Not knowing any better, I had been focusing on the crown chakra during my meditations. However, after reading so much about bad effects of going to the crown chakra prematurely, I am altering my focus to the third eye. I still feel the effects in the crown chakra, but realize that I am probably not ready for that yet.
This deeksha group is quite alluring, and the people coming back give glowing recommendations, but then after a 21-day meditation retreat, they ought to feel pretty good. I had considered going, but the big $5,000 price tag, and the giant temple they are building for themselves convinced me it was not a good idea.
I am very, very grateful for all of the great, practical information on this website and within this form.
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Edited by - Jillie on Oct 15 2007 10:31:55 PM |
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Spiritual Revolution?Diksha with Bhagavan and Amma
