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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 02:25:25 AM
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Hi Steve,
When you expand the energies from your hearth to the world,to all beings,the feelings and emotions are very healing and beautiful.
Its the power of love in action.You become a cross of divine love.
i havent read the book,but i have made some group SKMN guided meditations.And its an amazing experience.You can conect with your inner self,emotions,your hearth very deeply.
Doing it in group makes the SKMN meditation a powerful tool.
Is a powerful healing experience and i recomend it to everybody.
Thanks steve.
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 23 2009 03:47:32 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 4:14:40 PM
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Hi all,
Finally i cut down my practice. Now im doing 2 sb/6dm again...
Less is more
Thank you all for the helping hands.
Love. |
Edited by - miguel on Jun 23 2009 4:17:14 PM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 08:22:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
You do 12 minutes SbP, Akasha? You must have a diaphragm like a blacksmith's bellows... I envy you! I've been a horn player through much of my life but I don't think I could push it that far. At the moment I'm trying to comfortably push SbP up to 4 minutes.
Why did you decide to go totally SbP as opposed to SB? The reason I ask is that I find the SbP only 'works' - ie I can actually feel the conductivity - after SB, although on a purely animal level I enjoy bastrika whereas SB is really more of a chore. And do you do any targeted bastrika?
For comparison's sake, my practice at the moment:
10 mins SB, 2/3 mins SbP, 3x YMK, 20 mins DM, 5 mins Samyama, 10 mins rest. I was doing cosmic samyama too but that was going too far.
Cheers,
g
By SbP i mean spinal breathing pranayama
i don't do bastrika- stlll developing the core practices.
I've currentlly got a funny relationship with deep meditation at the moment. I would like the global effects and the inner silence but, as i've said in previous posts, i've felt uncomfortable after doing it. I'm still therefore trying to work this one,DM, out then. Do i need to change my mantra? Am i still intoning it right,letting tensions 7 obstructions ease naturally? Maybe i am doing too much of it so i need to self-pace? --- But can self-pacing mean stopping DM, as yonatan suggests ,and i have done, for at least a day or more, maybe even 3...(?) The thing here is ,considering i'm a bit of a spiritual sadhana addict, like Miguel,always wanting more now,and feeling theere is, coupled with a lifestyle that is'nt full of activity and perhaps less than normal,self-pacing may be the precription the doctor ordered, if that might mean stopping sadhana.MMmmmmmm. I, like I am sure most here, enjoys being able to dive into the bliss states of the sitting practices,but the cause-effect with DM is something i am unsure of and been experimenting with modifying my practice to work this one out..
Maybe another mantra might do it? Maybe not.(?) i heard katrine saying well,reminding me that the 'i am ' mantra vibrates with the spinal chord (and globally )to release obstructions . yes i certainly expeienced that my first 5-6 weeks with DM. Now it sometimes feels like even the oppoiste iss occuring. I then ask myself- is this a sympptom of over-doing a given practice- when the intended f=effects go opposite and obstructions are created() A sensible Remedy--is ground - and stop or reduce sadhana, at the same time.
The real yeard stick here howveere is i look at myself 2 months ago when i started , and now- and have i evolved?-Yes.Am i trying number of forks in the road that lead back to the same cross-raods. Probably not. Is it my karma?- are there a few stubborn road blocks that need alittle more work?
I can emit a vibration in my head that can feel quite pleasant and releasing but then i'm no longer sure if it the 'ayam' mantra (being employed),and i am not conscious of thinking it prior to orginating the vibration....I am pretty bowled over by the power and effiacy of internal mantra yoga but it can feel like this mantra is now bouncing around my system setting up more road blocks. There may still be just stubborn bits of karmic dirt on my windscreen(ns) that just need time and a balanced approach incorporating all yoga's eight limbs incl. self-inquiry,selfless service,grounding etc
Hope this answers your question. I don't do bastrika though i did try it on your suggestion. i sense i have enough on my plate just figuring out the two core practice,.controls, the steering wheel and the joy-stick..... what they do etc
i would love a bit of DM- as i love the inner silence and the 'divine love' that is cultivated and results with doing it. i have also found it energising etc etc
LOVE |
Edited by - Akasha on Jun 24 2009 08:31:42 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 08:38:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Hi all,
Finally i cut down my practice. Now im doing 2 sb/6dm again...
Less is more
Thank you all for the helping hands.
Love.
Less is More
that is v true.
thx, Miguel.
10 mins- Sb/?- DM
Combine with,well, other stuff......other limbs,relevant appropriate actions perhaps,lifestyle,( a tiny bit of relational enquiry into my sense of "I" )etc
i might try taking a couple of days off, if i can resist the urges to play with the main controls- DM & SB. MY sb is alright. but the DM i'm not so sure about. only time will tell. |
Edited by - Akasha on Jun 24 2009 08:44:19 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 08:51:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan
Hi miguel,
As you, I'm also experiencing a bit of discomfort these days (I'm also sensitive), what I did is decrease my sitting from two times to one, and I also took a break of 3 days of not practicing (I didn't feel discomfort before but then felt more and more overloaded so three days felt a right amount). This worked for me. Now I'm experiencing just a little discomfort sometimes, but it's OK, I feel quite good actually (more than I used to in a long time before AYP).
I dunno, maybe a short break for a day or two would be good if the discomfort is big.
If cutting back to 6 minutes doesn't do it though..
Love and Progress
That might not be a bad idea. it could be the dose of 'common sense' that has been mentioned recently.
It's good Yonatan to hear you say - you have felt happier with ayp than in a long-time before ayp.
Love and Progress. |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 09:07:58 AM
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Hi Akasha,
quote:
By SbP i mean spinal breathing pranayama
I was going to say...
I found a tweak for the I AM that doesn't seem to be out of synch with AYP practice and really brings everything up - bliss and conductivity - while also making it easier to stay on the mantra. You just deliberately drop each syllable into the silence, as in samyama: I [stop, 'feel' the silence] AM [stop, feel the silence]. Repeat ad infinitum... The pause, such as it is, doesn't occupy more than a fraction of a second. I. Silence. Am. Silence. I've found it lets the mantra seep into me and opens up the silence - which is expanding outwards. I've also added 'Sri,' but after the initial fireworks I can't tell at the moment what's going on with that (though something apparently is).
Love!
g |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 09:08:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
Miguel,
I'm reading Desire by Daniel Odier at the moment, and he talks rather beautifully about the desire in all things: ie. the water in your glass desires you as much as you desire it, the flower desires to be smelled, food savoured, etc etc. It's a lovely notion and one that I think will help me balance my inner focus, which of course like you I'm busily cultivating. Katrine has written very movingly on similar ideas, I think. I had to ask myself today, looking at a spectacularly lovely flower, whether I was seeing the flower more clearly because of my practice, or whether I was in fact practicing in order to experience the flower, and everything else, in all its wonder.
Love!
g
That book looks interesting as do all of daniel odier's books. i remember seeing his name in connecion with a joint semi-autobiographical book on william boroughs.( 'the job interviews' i think it was) strange connection there. i am going to assume it is the same guy.
i read the book is about his experiences being initiated with an authentic tantric adept,kashmir shaivite yogini somewhere in thehills of the himalayas ( kashmir perhaps?-- i've been there -it's beautiful- many years ago when i was just 19 years old)-- sounds interesting anyway.
I do have an interest in tantra( as i have experienced it's truly liberating effects in the past) but i'm still working on the core practices for now. so one to explore later. |
Edited by - Akasha on Jun 24 2009 09:15:10 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 09:23:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
Hi Akasha,
quote:
By SbP i mean spinal breathing pranayama
I was going to say...
I found a tweak for the I AM that doesn't seem to be out of synch with AYP practice and really brings everything up - bliss and conductivity - while also making it easier to stay on the mantra. You just deliberately drop each syllable into the silence, as in samyama: I [stop, 'feel' the silence] AM [stop, feel the silence]. Repeat ad infinitum... The pause, such as it is, doesn't occupy more than a fraction of a second. I. Silence. Am. Silence. I've found it lets the mantra seep into me and opens up the silence - which is expanding outwards. I've also added 'Sri,' but after the initial fireworks I can't tell at the moment what's going on with that (though something apparently is).
Love!
g
Thankyou so much grihastha for these very powerul tips ,suggestions.
i 'll have to allow them to reverberate around and seep into my consciousness,openiing up,resonating with every fibre, being.
this does sound very helpful.
excellent!!!----- definitely one to explore
THANKYOU!! |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 09:54:22 AM
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Hi Akasha,
Given with love - hope they work for you!
quote:
i 'll have to allow them to reverberate around and seep into my consciousness,openiing up,resonating with every fibre, being.
Yeah, it's definitely about calibrating the vibrations - in fact I'm only just beginning to understand that EVERYTHING is about synching your vibrations with those of everything around you.
Daniel Odier did write the Burroughs book (which I haven't read). He also writes novels - in fact he wrote the book that the movie 'Diva' was based on. I don't know if that in itself says anything about his expertise in Kashmir Shaivism... Anyway he sounds like a genuinely interesting bloke and if his teachings are anything like his writing... When I'm back in the UK I'm going to check out his seminars in Paris, in any case.
Namaste!
g |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 10:07:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
Hi Akasha,
quote:
By SbP i mean spinal breathing pranayama
I was going to say...
I found a tweak for the I AM that doesn't seem to be out of synch with AYP practice and really brings everything up - bliss and conductivity - while also making it easier to stay on the mantra. You just deliberately drop each syllable into the silence, as in samyama: I [stop, 'feel' the silence] AM [stop, feel the silence]. Repeat ad infinitum... The pause, such as it is, doesn't occupy more than a fraction of a second. I. Silence. Am. Silence. I've found it lets the mantra seep into me and opens up the silence - which is expanding outwards. I've also added 'Sri,' but after the initial fireworks I can't tell at the moment what's going on with that (though something apparently is).
Love!
g
I see......Enjoy(feeel) the Silence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncvx8OVWaqg
Notice the 'Om' tatooed to the lead singer's left-handisde of chest(near shoulder) in other live versions on u-tube.
Funny how your suggesstion prompted me to look up this video.
well you've got silence ( the word) and the actuality, and an 'Om'.... |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 10:18:54 AM
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quote:
Yeah, it's definitely about calibrating the vibrations - in fact I'm only just beginning to understand that EVERYTHING is about synching your vibrations with those of everything around you.
this is what dawned on me too.......
(and it fits with the law of karma, and causality...this got me thinking then about the potency of internal mantra yoga)
quote:
Daniel Odier did write the Burroughs book (which I haven't read). He also writes novels - in fact he wrote the book that the movie 'Diva' was based on.
i noticed that too.
quote:
I don't know if that in itself says anything about his expertise in Kashmir Shaivism... Anyway he sounds like a genuinely interesting bloke and if his teachings are anything like his writing... When I'm back in the UK I'm going to check out his seminars in Paris, in any case.
I'm getting the impression kashmiri shaivism may well be all about that, like the Spandakarikas(something Kirtanman drew my attention to in one of his recent posts here a few weeks ago), texts central to tantra, and the 'law' of vibration, though i have yet to read anything on the subject.
Thanks for the very useful feedback. I know we all want this(AYP) to work for everyone.
A.
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Edited by - Akasha on Jun 24 2009 10:39:51 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 11:36:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
I found a tweak for the I AM that doesn't seem to be out of synch with AYP practice and really brings everything up - bliss and conductivity - while also making it easier to stay on the mantra. You just deliberately drop each syllable into the silence, as in samyama: I [stop, 'feel' the silence] AM [stop, feel the silence]. Repeat ad infinitum... The pause, such as it is, doesn't occupy more than a fraction of a second. I. Silence. Am. Silence. I've found it lets the mantra seep into me and opens up the silence - which is expanding outwards. I've also added 'Sri,' but after the initial fireworks I can't tell at the moment what's going on with that (though something apparently is).
Hi Grihastha:
Just a reminder that adding fixed structure into how the mantra is repeated is not AYP deep meditation procedure. The mantra will always be changing in pattern and clarity over time, according to the inner purification and opening that is occurring in the nervous system. The instruction is to go with that in real time and pick up the mantra wherever we happen to be in clarity/fuzziness when we realize we are off it. It will be different at different times according to our inner process, and this is normal. Any "structure" or "synchronization" we impose as a modification to procedure will obstruct the natural transcendence of the mind to stillness, because the mantra will no longer be free to operate as a vehicle for attention going naturally beyond thinking. Instead, the mantra will become a slave to the expectations of the mind. So let it go. Nature knows much better than we do.
The mind loves to put things in a box of expectation, exclaiming, "This is it!"
As soon as this happens (especially during practice), you can be sure it isn't it.
Remember that any revelation about meditation procedure, no matter how profound-seeming, is going to be temporary, because the inner dynamic of purification and the rise of abiding inner silence is always evolving. The only thing that does not change is the easy procedure of deep meditation. If a revelation happens during meditation, it is just another thought. If we find ourselves redesigning the procedure during deep meditation, it calls for only one thing ... easing back to the mantra, without any conditions imposed. Less is more...
Better to save samyama technique for, yes, samyama! 
Other systems may have other approaches to mantra utilization, and that is for them to teach in relation to their overall system.
This is just to clarify that what you are describing above is not AYP deep meditation technique. You are free to experiment, of course, but we'd like to remain clear about what the base procedure of AYP deep meditation is. Anyone in doubt can refer to Lesson 13 (and followup lessons), or see the Deep Meditation book.
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 12:48:04 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for that.
But I think I ought to explain that what I'm doing with the mantra, though, isn't actually samyama. I've noticed from the forums that some people find the mantra as AYAM, whereas I (probably because I'm English) have a natural tendency to separate my syllables, simply as an unconscious speech pattern and because of my speaking voice and accent. Which creates a pause between the I and the AM, a pause in which I found, without looking for it, a resonance coming from very deep inside me. It fills with silence. I also found that I stayed with the mantra without effort, that my body seemed to be keeping me with it, in fact.
Actually until just now I thought that was what you meant in your teachings about the mantra's role in Deep Meditation!
Before I found AYP I'd experimented with a lot of mantras and never actually FELT them like this. It was an accidental discovery to do with enunciation, really, and as such I'm stuck with it unless I make a conscious effort to think in another voice, as it were...
I agree that using the mantra as samyama per se would be something completely different, though. As I'm quite sensitive to samyama I certainly would not - could not - do it for 20 minutes in any event...
Namaste,
g |
Edited by - grihastha on Jun 24 2009 1:18:16 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 2:25:00 PM
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Hi,
Akasha,remember that sbp increases the dm effects also.
Reduce sbp and dm till the time you feel comfortable.
Yoganis dm book can help you A LOT with dm technique.It helped me a lot.There are some specific points that should be considered in the practice of ayp dm,and the book explain it very well.Dm practice is the main practice of ayp,and is very important to have a clear understanding of how to do it right.
And rest always after sbp and dm.You said yo do 2 rests in your sessions.Dm should be made inmediatly after sbp.After sbp and dm you can rest all the time you need.
Is not necesary to cut off the practice (ok,if you feel you need a couple of days is good,im doing it now).Only reduce.All we have our own pace.
I think is very important to follow yoganis rules seriously at this first stage in ayp.
Hug some trees also
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 24 2009 2:40:35 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 2:42:22 PM
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Hi Akasha and all....
Just thought I would point out exactly what made all the difference in my Deep Meditation practices.....
I had been practicing AYP for several months when I recieved my copy of "The Secrets Of Wilder"...I read it in a few days 'cause I couldn't put it down. In this book Yogani describes better then I had ever read elsewhere about the "refining" of the mantra. I don't know if he meant to do this, or if it is just how I read it or where I was at in my practice at the time, but something clicked for me.....Deep Meditation is not about "holding on" to the mantra and repeating it endlessly over and over again. It is about letting the mantra refine itself thus creating the opportunity to embrace deep inner silence. What is meant by the refining of the mantra(to me) is to allow the mantra to soften, disperse, re-appear, repeat at will, and to really take the awareness to a deeper level of silence. Not trying to control the mantra is key I think. If you are feeling uncomfortable after Deep Meditation Akasha, then there is a potential that:
1. you are going too long
2. you are forcing the mantra
Of course these are just my perceptions from my own conditioning (ego) and there could be zero validity to it in your situation. Just thought I would mention this as it made all the difference in my meditation sessions.
Love,
Carson |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 3:17:47 PM
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Yes, ayp mantra should be used following a specific rules.This is VERY IMPORTANT.When i learnt how to do it well,my dm became much better and CONFORTABLE.
Is very important,like brother carson says,not to force the mantra...but not to the point to lose it completly.Only a bit effort,only favouring the mantra,very softly.Never force.If there are thoughts and you find it difficult to repeat the mantra,stay with those thoughts until they dissapear and you feel easy to come back to the mantra again.Thats purification also!
And do dm inmediatly after sb.It Is very important also.
Rest after you practices.Always.
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 24 2009 3:20:55 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 3:34:10 PM
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When you are doing this ayp dm practice,there is a tendency in the mind of "I must repeat the mantra,i must repeat the mantra,i must clean my nervous system and reach enlightenment... "
But the real thing is that things like loosing the mantra,or stay with your thoughts till they dissolve is an important key point also.There must be a balance bertween going forward (picking up mantra) and control of the process (losing the mantra,stay with thoghts...).This last point of control is yama or restriction.Thats an important practice in yoga and yogani talks about it in the lessons also.
This practice of restriction in dm have consecuences in our daily lifes.We find our selfs more relaxed and find more easy to control our selfs in all we do.I have observed this also due to dm practice.Its a consecuence of this key point of restriction practiced in dm.
I find that the point of controling the process is difficult for the mind.But is an important key point.
Talking from my individual experience.
PS-Lot of energy and purification in the air here this days.Do you feel it also? summer solstice? |
Edited by - miguel on Jun 24 2009 3:49:23 PM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 8:54:29 PM
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Thanks for all your helpful replies.
I'm possibly guilty of forcing the mantra. I should have set up a thread of my own..hey i already have..
I'll take on board all said here when revising my technqiue/strategy/approach.
The mantra has just felt like a wall of late i have had to force through to pronounce it.
I think i maybe recall yogani saying something like in the little blue book-
don't use too much effort so to force it,
but neither use too little so basically nothing happens.
it is an easy gentle effort, or something like that
the comment- the thoughts are equally important and the control process as goin easy with the mantra uncovers our holding patterns etc. thx
Carson ,
I believe i maybe guilty of No.2-
in the light of this i'll try to back off so as not force t he mantra. i may even refer back to this thread. And/or revisit that little blue book.
maybe the wall is a sign of something happening
No seriously ,thanks for all the helpful replies.I believe they should be helpful. I'll let you know how i get on.
This has been going on for a while-like about a month, but all your comments should help if i can successfully apply what you suggest-goin easy with pronouncing the mantra gently , and my thoughts and feeling the nuances of my mind and all, and beyond.
I think i have been pronouncing the mantra like something i must do and get out of the way inorder to get done rather than staying with it and the mind's silence in between and the thoughts ,and reallly trying to feeeel it.
it has realy dented my motivation to practice DM. so i did think ' there is something not right here' a month ago back when the expected effects kind of well stopped.
Many thanks
Akasha
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Edited by - Akasha on Jun 24 2009 9:44:46 PM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 9:16:38 PM
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Carson,Miguel,Grihashta,Yogani
What would i do without you's all?
I think I would be *&$ucked or buggered, or one or the other.
Thankyou.
All these comments are very heplful. I'll let you know how i get on when it comes to applying the sage advice offered. All that was said makes complete sense. the mantra recently has possibly felt lik e something i had to scale or force,like a hurdle i must gallop over, not a vibration i should feel.
i will review all the sage points provided.
/\
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 07:01:05 AM
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I tried your suggestions and i think i had a more fruitful DM session last night.(Perhaps ayp/enlightenement is'nt as easy as i thought)I think i altered my technique.
I think i am still holding on to a lot of fear and anger.( accumulated over last few yrs)
I know it's not always helpful necessarily to analyse all our obstructions being releeased but this appeared confirmed by a dream (though the thought actually came to me last night beofre i went to sleep)where i viisted a hotel paid but then turned down a few prostitutes ( though they were nothing special) as i said i could'nt afford it. The establishement (were kinda disspointed as they) wanted my money and were making my exit a bit long-winded. So after much prevarication i climbed on my bicycle ,did a u-turn trying to get away, turning round( i always had some dificulty and paranoia about turning around) some guy with a kosh is trying to truncheon me one. I always had this feeling( throughout my life generally) pple were envious of what they thought i had ( though i have'nt seen my self certainly these past 15 yrs after geting into the smack scene as having much at all, & quite destitute) I thought in mild state of habituated fear-based panic 'what is this all about' and woke uup. I had released my seed prior to going back to sleep and my dream changed it's frequency. It was'nt a nightmare but just a reminder of a red-light state i've been on for a couple of years.
It is just a reminder from the unconscious mind that there is still that residual fear and anger( that had it's basis partly to do with environmental reasons) still wanting to hang on.
It might seem a bit gratutitous to share this, but there you go.No harm in getting personal. It might provide background to where i think i'm coming from a little perhaps.If i work through the obstructions on a daily basis then they should all go.
I've always had this feeling of feeling confined mentally,emotionally and physically especially the last few years.And there being a certain level of pain i've had to just well tolerate.So in that sense i am grateful for ayp but realise it might take some time.
Changing my DM technique might just help.
thx
A. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 08:29:12 AM
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quote:
Changing my DM technique might just help.
im sure |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2009 : 04:13:01 AM
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Finally and definitely im passing trought a more sensitive phase.
Now,today i decided to reduce to 1 mte sbp and 5 mtes dm.The last two dm have been very energetic meditacion.Yesterday lots of flashes of coloured geometric figures in 3 eye while doing dm.
Im having lot of dreams at night related with my past.Lot of dreams.Also i am becoming more able to catch lot of thoughts during the day and dissolve them or inquire them....whit increasing inner silence coming here.
This is an amazing phase.Not easy to get trought,im in a low phase since the last week.Somedays there are phases in which i connect with very deep traumas and fears,and the suffering is too intense And its really hard(thats why today i reduced again my practices).Lot of purification,and self pacing is a real gift here.It allows me to keep me in the practice.
Im at the minimum of practice now.When thigs will get stable again ill retur to my normal practice again.This is the bell curve,and it changes along the months of practice.
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Edited by - miguel on Jul 02 2009 06:41:13 AM |
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2009 : 10:32:45 PM
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| How's it going? I've been following your posts, since I have to be careful with self-pacing as well, and am rather frustrated. I do DM longer (ten minutes, and then for a few moments in the evening) but am terrified of doing any pranayama, since it burns my nervous system. A bit of samyama is okay. It is so frustrating--I just want a bit of inner peace, I don't care about bliss or esctacy. But I have to be so careful! |
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should i self pace?
