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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 12:52:27 PM
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The most important thing i think is not if i read your post or not,the most important thing is that information is kept in me...for some reason related to healing process.Thats the important thing.
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 04 2009 1:08:51 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 12:55:31 PM
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I thimk is related to a commentary you made one day about your father i think,related to some strict attitude or something like that...only the surface...but i related it with me and i knew you had simmilar environment via intuition.
(energy running again)thanks
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 04 2009 1:08:51 PM |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 1:03:48 PM
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Dear Miguel,
I'm chiming in because, though my personal experience is very different from yours, in my immediate family I have several people, some of whom I love very, very deeply, who are snared so deeply by their past - or really, by their memories, that in one case they can hardly function at all in the here and now. They are full of anger and resentment - paralyzed by it, really - for things that happened 20 or 30 years ago. I'm not saying that describes you by any means. But your posts struck a chord in me.
You're obviously a deeply thinking and sensitive person. That can be nothing but a blessing. Since I began to surrender to my own spiritual journey I've been amazed at how quickly I have shed my past like a snake's skin. Memories that are anything but dispassionate recollections of past events (and even those are mostly unverifiable) are just dramas we spin. They are exactly like the chatter of our mind trying to distract us from meditation. You can't change your past self, so why regret him? He doesn't exist anywhere - never did exist except in the moment, which is where you exist now.
Hoping you find your happiness again soon,
Love!
grihastha |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 1:12:34 PM
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Hi Miguel...
An OBE is an abbreviation for Out Of Body Experience. Sorry, I should have just written that out in full.
Love,
Carson |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 1:16:56 PM
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| Thanks carson |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 1:19:55 PM
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| Thanks you very much Grihastra.I need to reflect about your post now |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 2:13:02 PM
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Hi Miguel
quote:
But there is a thing that is here constantly...
I feel great guilty for not following religion patterns of one member of my family.
He says always im wrong and i must converse to christianity,to clean up my soul via conffesion,and go to church every sundays....and pray every day...
Yes....this must be very difficult for you, Miguel.....our conditioning - when fully identified with - can be stifling like this....
However....Christianity is not based on going to church every Sunday. Neither is it based on prayers.
As far as I can understand (and please remember that I am no expert when it comes to religion.....I just recognize the same basic message of Love in all religions)......Christianity is based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. For him....even the dessert is "church" enough.....for him...communing with That/God/Silence is an ongoing occurence. Jesus too.... had human teachers. He too "sat still in communion with God".....he too prayed. All of this...he did in his own way..... and wherever he happened to be.....at any time.
At the core of Christianity lies Truth and Love....and our ever increasing trust in these two.....engenders Joy in heart....so that true hope for humanity as a whole is never lost. Jesus Christ says: "The Kingdom of God Is Within You".
It is what is within your heart that counts. And we carry our hearts with us wherever we go....Monday to Sunday....24/7
It is this that comes out of you to touch others. This is why we are engaged in purificational practices like Deep Meditation. Every day.
And prayers - as well as confessions - from heart..... can certainly be voiced - and heard - anywhere in the universe.....and definitely when spoken in an empty room. The willingness to be open...first of all to ourselves ....about our shortcomings......it is possible to lay ourselves at the feet of that which is our source....anytime our heart yearns for it. We need not be dependant on another for that. Only space is needed, yes?
The guilt you feel regarding not obeying the rules of religious conduct in your family......if you can gently allow it.....and at the same time keep up your practice routine......ways of interacting with your family members will come to you along with the ever rising inner silence in you, Miguel. It is possible to relate to your family and at the same time be in relationalship with inner silence. They are human and come with.....limiting patterns of behaviour..... like all the rest of us; inner silence on the other hand.....is always real. It is your true friend, support and loving guide...at the same time as it is you .....it will never fail you.
This way...when the day comes when you do move away from home....you will not travel with that package of guilt on your shoulders. You will have transcended it right in the lion's den.
What you....without leaving..... "leave behind" like this.......what drops of itself because of direct experience and an ever increasing reservoir of inner wisdom......it can never create suffering again.
Much peace to you, Miguel 
PS
Just so you know....I love churches. And I love to sing psalms. Whenever passing an open church...i often go in to sit in peace. I love the empty churches the most...........and I love meditating with friends in that sacred space....
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 2:16:35 PM
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Hi all
Cross posted with all you 
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 2:21:14 PM
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| Thank you Carson, grihastha and Miguel for the lovely posts |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 4:09:55 PM
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Thanks Grihastra for your big helping hand an attention.I love your here and now.I like where you are now,must be a beautiful place.
And thanks for the link,i find it really interesting.I have been always very very interested in ancestors....
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 4:38:46 PM
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Hi Katrine,
Yes,all what you are talking about is wonderful,i know it and believe in it.
But its not so easy.Its really hard.
Altought i know that family patterns are based in human limited points of view and are close minded,in my inner self i believe in it altoght it has not much sense.
Why?
Because the more i belive in it the more love and attention i recieve from...my father....and other people also...
I want to love him,but hes like a wall,he doesnt want really....
Every time i go to him and i talk to him from my hearth....he doesnt listen,he use to stop the conversation,put the tv and put the volume more loud.He says im an overly dramatic person,like psiquiry diagnosed to me two years ago.
Its really hard katrine,you camt imagine how really hard is being ignored of this way by a family member.Thats why i feel lot of pain,frustation,anger,hate....inside |
Edited by - miguel on Jun 04 2009 4:41:29 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 4:44:31 PM
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the religious beliefs,altought much of then are very close minded,are deepen within us,and how to change them....altoght you think you have trascend them,at the time fear and death,they are the first thing you catch,because you are afraid of going to hell for example...
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 5:01:27 PM
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Hi again Miguel...
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
the religious beliefs,altought much of then are very close minded,are deepen within us,and how to change them....altoght you think you have trascend them,at the time fear and death,they are the first thing you catch,because you are afraid of going to hell for example...
I TOTALLY identify with this. I stopped being a Christian persay at the age of 12. And I did just about everything I could to divorce myself from that way of thinking. And I mean everything. But even after all that, at the age of 22 I thought I heard the trumpets sound and I caught myself thinking that the second coming of Christ was happening. 10 years later. I don't know about you, but I was raised to be Christian from birth. I never knew anything else until my teens. This to me is complete indoctrination. I don't blame my parents for this, they were only doing what they thought was right, but this does make it difficult for the subconcious mind to let go. I was basically brainwashed as a child and it took serious time to relearn. I don't really have any advice for you other then to give it time and to keep inquiring. Just wanted you to know you aren't alone.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 5:04:56 PM
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Hi Miguel
Yes. I do sense some of it.....only you can vouch for all of it of course....
And it is far from easy....it is arduous. I liken it to walking along the edge of a knife sometimes......to be true can hurt. Love can hurt. But still.....the edge of that knife keeps one alert. And when alert....consciousness is bound to expand....
quote:
Because the more i belive in it the more love and attention i recieve from...my father....
I want to love him,but hes like a wall,he doesnt want really....
Every time i go to him and i talk to him from my hearth....he dont listen,he use to stop the conversation,put the tv and put the volume more loud.He says im an overly dramatic person,like psiquiry diagnosed to me two years ago.
Its really hard katrine,you dont know how really hard is being ignored of this way by a family member.Thats why i feel lot of pain,frustation,anger,hate....inside
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I grew up being beaten...... years and years of it... from the age of 4, Miguel. I also had to watch my sisters being beaten. The use of religious terminology to "conform" ...was prevalent. And I too loved and hated. I too wanted to be accepted......... A's and diplomas and prizes....none of it brought permanent love.....years and years of pain....but somehow...."Evigheten" ("Eternity"....it is what i called the place inside where noone could touch me).
Today...it is seen that the hardship of those times....and all the wonderful exposure to music, literature and artistic expressions in general that my parents exposed me to.....without these.....I would not be here communing with you today, Miguel. I moved away from home when i was 18. But it took many years to transcend the negative impact of my childhood. But meditation was magic from day one (I was app. 23 then)
Everything is connected. Nothing happens to no avail. It is not one thing that brings one home to oneself. It is all of it.
So even if it is hard.....don't lose heart.
This too shall pass......and we live one precious moment at a time
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 5:25:31 PM
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Hey Miguel,
We're all in the same place...
At some point we have to break free. Now that I'm a parent, I can see my own father with a whole new perspective. Putting the metaphysics of karma to one side, I can see that he grew up with a father who was mentally scarred by World War One. He passed it on as anger and depression, and in turn it was passed down to me. And sometimes I catch myself starting to repeat the same patterns with my own children, and I stop myself and think, "whoa, that war happened 90 years ago, two generations back. It's stopping here. The misery, the accumulated suffering, it's ending here, with me."
There's a lot of forgiveness that needs to be dished out - not showily or emotionally. But inside. I don't need my parents to know I've forgiven them. I don't even need them to know that they might have been in need of forgiveness. It doesn't matter to me any more. Every day I'm breaking the handed-down patterns of behaviour, because otherwise, how long would they be perpetuated? Another generation? Two? Hundreds of years of inexplicable family anguish, the source long forgotten? I really love my father, I cherish all the ways in which he was and is a fantastic dad, and I set aside (not deny or ignore) the not so good stuff. Philip Larkin, the English poet, said: "Man hands on misery to man/It deepens like a coastal shelf." If we wake up and see the truth in this, see that it's happening to us, we can change it within ourselves. Turn that miserable statement into "Beings hand on love to beings" - this is something we can do!
Love!
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 03:29:59 AM
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quote:
I was raised to be Christian from birth. I never knew anything else until my teens.
Yes,its exactly the same situation here.
quote:
make it difficult for the subconcious mind to let go. I was basically brainwashed as a child and it took serious time to relearn
Yes Carson,is like an onion you know,religious beliefs were planted in the most inner layer.Just at the time when you are a child and you keep all you recieve like a sponge.
The rest of the layers are added after and put above that first layers.I think when you (we) say we relearned,maybe werent we putting there other thoughts above the old toughts like a wall? Arent still that thoughts inside that wall we created?
quote:
I don't really have any advice for you other then to give it time and to keep inquiring.
I think this is the real solution.Inquiry. And thats one of the reasons why i (we..) am here.
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 05 2009 03:36:11 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 03:41:29 AM
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Katrine,
Since two months,more or less i think...i have been listening sometimes that inner voice...is like i feeling that come sudenly and sometimes...is a feeling of great hope....and it began to appear two months ago...
And the feeling is always traslated in my mind every tie i feel it a automatically like the words
"Keep the faith". Always the same words come to mind after feeling it.
I only can believe that feelings...because i think its divine helping hand in this moments...
On the other hand,after that i look always around me and think..i cant belive or imagine the way this all will pass,i cant imagine how and where ill find my place in the world... |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 05:12:57 AM
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Thanks Grihastra for your help.
quote:
"Beings hand on love to beings"
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 08:24:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
And the feeling is always traslated in my mind every tie i feel it a automatically like the words
"Keep the faith". Always the same words come to mind after feeling it.
I only can believe that feelings...because i think its divine helping hand in this moments...
On the other hand,after that i look always around me and think..i cant belive or imagine the way this all will pass,i cant imagine how and where ill find my place in the world...
Beautiful Miguel.
When the discomfort is at it's max, something inside is stirring and wanting to get out. My suggestion, I know you overload on Samyama, so don't do samyama, but after meditation, just take the unrest your "mind" is creating on 'i cant belive or imagine the way this all will pass,i cant imagine how and where ill find my place in the world..." and give it to your ishta... the part of you that is saying "Keep the faith"... the silence. This is a form of self inquiry/samyama blend that I have found very useful in my path. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 08:47:10 AM
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Hummm....
i understand what you say with giving the words "i cant belive or imagine the way ..." to my ishta.
That words come from the mind.
But i dont understand your suggestion about "keep the faith"....just pick it softly sometimes with the mind along the day and let it go in to stillness?
The words "keep the faith" come here from inside very fews time,but since two months i have felt it repeated times,from inside.The words come and i feel great joy and hope.But i cant control this thing that happens,it comes spontaneously....so,i dont understand very well the exercice you talk about...sorry...
And i can only relate it to bhakti yoga (ishta) and samyama (silence).Which is the inquiry component?
Thank you very much,only some confusion here.. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 08:50:03 AM
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| and i must say,that the words "i cant imagine the way.." come here just and only after the inner voice "keep the faith",cz the mind cant imagine how inner silence still believes in a good future for me....its a reaction from the mind as an answer/question to the inner voice |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 08:52:22 AM
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And one strange thing shanti,yesterday during my meditation (only a couple of minutes) and my rest time after meditation i felt the need of doing some samyama,i "thought" it would help...
Is samyama more powerful than dm? could i add some ssamyma without risk to my sadhanna?
that inner voice is like aotomatic samyama,very good feelings come suddenly from inside to surface,and my mind answer to them with the aoutomatic thought "keep the faith" and after it there appear the second "voice" which says that is impossible to be happy again. |
Edited by - miguel on Jun 05 2009 08:56:58 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 09:02:31 AM
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Hi Miguel,
Sorry for the confusion.
When I said:
and give it to your ishta... the part of you that is saying "Keep the faith"... the silence.
I was saying, give your worries to your ishta. Your ishta no matter what people call it is the "silence".. and it is from the silence that the words "keep the faith" arises. So all in all, ishta, silence, the place from where the words "keep faith"arise are all the same. Does this help?
Also, during relational self inquiry the answers come from the silence. Hence a form of self inquiry is to ask a question a let it go and let the answer come to you from within. In this case, I use the technique of samyama to get this. So when something is bothering me, I ask the question and let it go in silence, and the answer comes to me. It is not always the way the mind thinks it should be, so over time I have learnt to stop looking for the answers. It comes in the strangest ways, a technique, a book, a post at the forum, words I hear from someone, something I see, hear, say, experience.. the list is endless.
That is how you use the samyama technique for self inquiry. Does this help? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2009 : 09:08:00 AM
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PS: We cross posted.
If you'd like to try samyama, then yes go for it. Start with one round of the sutras. Some people find it too powerful, and since you are sensitive, maybe start cautiously. If it seems too powerful, start with the first 3 sutras one round, if that too is too strong start with just "love".
And yes, your inner silence tells you to "keep the faith", and the next second your mind jumps in and says.. "but that is impossible". That is normal. See if this topic helps you Mind Filters... |
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