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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - May 22 2009 : 9:33:33 PM
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This has come up from time to time in the forums from others with different language and has been on my mind recently so I throw it out there for contemplation.
All practices are important and from my perspective they lead us to residing more completely and with more frequency in the Here and Now.
AYP is an incredibly powerful system of practices which from my experience, along with self-inquiry, train our minds to be more present over time. The significance of being more “present” is that the “here and now” is where we know our true nature and reside as pure-being or the witness which in itself is profound peace and enjoyment.
From my perspective and recent experiences, I have observed that all the practices in the world will not achieve the desired result if other activities in our lives like work, hobbies, etc. are training our minds in the other direction. Yes there can still be progress, but we can also find ourselves back in “the dream” (nightmare) if things get carried away.
If we practice daily with meditation, inquiry etc. but then start our work days and get immersed in “busy-ness” and/ or rushing around in our personal lives or even just in our minds etc. without space around our thoughts and activities, we are essentially training ourselves back into the illusory world of thoughts about pasts and futures which don’t exist in the Now.
Of course practices make it easier to realize this, but one starts to realize that absolutely everything we do is practice. That is to say that every action we make is a form of practice. What we do is what we are.
So you want to be a loving person, make 10 loving actions for every 1 time you observe yourself acting in an unloving way. Why not?
The result of daily meditation/ yoga practices is residing in the here and now but even more essential is the desire to choose at every moment to be present. Do every action with awareness, be present, live in the here and now, this is primordial and both a result of practices and a practice in itself.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2009 : 10:47:37 PM
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Hi Anthem,
Awesome post --- I agree, enthusiastically!
A couple of key things I've found helpful:
1. NOW, aka This Moment is actually all that's real; everything else is an idea in mind - "memory and imagination" as Nisargadatta says; literally: dream consciousness. The so-called present-moment is usually obscured with dream-consciousness, too ... all the ego-mind's stories, judgments, prejudices ... and thoughts of "past" and "future" ... even if its 5 minutes in the past or 2 hours in the future ("quote-unquote" .... those past and future events are not real ..... they're memory ... and imagination.)
The first several years, I tried to be "in the Now" ... I wasn't.
Really getting the unreality of:
*Anything other than now.
*Any conceptual thoughts about now.
.. is a much more powerful key (I've found) than identifying with a "thought-me" who thinks it will be a more spiritual thought-me ... by trying to "be present".
Identification with discursive/conceptual thought ... and presence ... are essentially, mutually exclusive.
So: seeing through the unreality of anything *other* than presence, is the most powerful way I've found to practice presence.
2. The type of "rushing" or "busyness" you're referring to is, as I understand it, the "thoughts about stuff" that create the condition ("I should have done that sooner!" ... "I have to get that done before lunch!" ... "Oh man ... and, I have to run by the vet's to get the mood-stabilizers for the goat ... I can't forget *that* again .... oh, yeah .... *and* I have to get the couch, the poodle *&* Grandma to the drycleaners. Darned goat!")
One can actually be moving fast .... *and* even thinking fast ... without being identified with, or driven by, the thoughts.
Even fast-paced moods and modes happen within the Field of Awareness ... and as long as part of our attention is anchored in the "field" .. (which happens naturally, as practice-results ripen, and as we consciously intend/practice/notice it) ... even a lot of thoughts doesn't cause Awareness to vacillate.
Ultimately, sense-of-self shifts *from* thought ... to the open, empty, clear field of being-awareness (<- usually very gradually ... though in my experience, *very* much a "snowball effect" ... when it opens/"kicks in" ... it kicks in a *LOT* .. and *rapidly*).
One reason for going into all this is ego/thought-mind is *very* persistent in trying to "keep itself employed" ... and it can end up generating a LOT of thoughts *about* being present/staying present/, if/how well/how poorly presence is being practiced, and so on.
Being easy with it ... and just *noticing* that if you can be aware *of* thoughts, the real "you" cannot be the thoughts ... and, that as much as thought-self may not think so ... there is a *gap* between every perception or thought ... which introduces self-to-self, beyond thought ... and outside of meditation (the *gap* is as present at work, or at a stop light, as it is in meditation).
The whole Vijnanabhairava Tantra is dedicated to introducing the self to the self, in various ways (112 of them, to be exact ) ... beyond thought.
The Yoga Spandakarika, too (part of the same tradition, and "series" of sacred writings, from the Kashmir Shaivism lineage) -- the stated goal of the Spandakarika is to take yogis and yoginis from "partial enlightenment to full enlightenment" (meaning: taking sporadic anchoring in clear awareness, and helping it to be permanent, and helping self to know itself *as* clear awareness).
Vijnanabhairava Tantra (on Daniel Odier's site)
http://www.danielodier.com/ENGLISH/...jnana_e.html
Yoga Spandakarika (Book; by Daniel Odier; not sure if the text is available online, directly)
http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Spandaka...p/1594770514
Spandakarikas by Jaideva Singh
http://www.amazon.com/Spanda-Karika...46102&sr=1-1
If you *really* want to go deep with this, check out:
Doctrine of Vibration
http://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Vibr...46258&sr=1-1 |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 05:20:05 AM
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Thanks Andrew, great postquote:
From my perspective and recent experiences, I have observed that all the practices in the world will not achieve the desired result if other activities in our lives like work, hobbies, etc. are training our minds in the other direction. Yes there can still be progress, but we can also find ourselves back in “the dream” (nightmare) if things get carried away.
If we practice daily with meditation, inquiry etc. but then start our work days and get immersed in “busy-ness” and/ or rushing around in our personal lives or even just in our minds etc. without space around our thoughts and activities, we are essentially training ourselves back into the illusory world of thoughts about pasts and futures which don’t exist in the Now.
This is also my experience, so I am delighted to hear it confirmed like this quote:
The result of daily meditation/ yoga practices is residing in the here and now but even more essential is the desire to choose at every moment to be present. Do every action with awareness, be present, live in the here and now, this is primordial and both a result of practices and a practice in itself.
Agreed, being present in the here and now is a practice in itself. As Kirtanman points out there are ways of going about this.
Personally I find that I find a way that is fresh and untired and this can unlock me out of the dream for a while as the day unwinds.
But all these little ways of bringing us into the present are mental tricks and are still packets of ideas. What happens me, is that these medhods get tired as I become acustomed to them and they then become part of the dream and I find myself disconnected again and again
So as I "wonder" through this amazing life of now, I need to stay open to new insights on how best to invigorate myself into the now stream, into life happening in and through me.
At present, for instance, I am aware of myself passing through the day as being dictated by one set of belief ideas after another. So being present for me at the moment is marvelling at the realisation that what I have just told myself about me, is just a mental construct which has become a belief and is now ingrained as a habit energy. By being present throughout the day I am finding great richness with these discoveries.
No doubt the above method will become tired after a while and a new insight will come for me to practice being more present in the moment.
Whichever way we do it, is OK, it is wonderful just to make the intent to practice staying in the moment throughout the day. In my experience it does require effort, however, since I started practicing AYP, it has deepened and deepened.
To connect the twice daily AYP practices with the practice of staying in the moment is truely engaging in the world. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 1:57:35 PM
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Nice post Anthem.
For me a big step can be removed as I see that what I am IS this moment of being now. I am never not this moment of being now. I am already that even when I may sometimes think I am working at getting myself back to that. The underlying awareness of this moment of being is always the true and fathomless nature of self. Of course I also seem to flit around and get lost in this moment of being. And the countless distractions are also this moment of being now as the play of life. But I am already always the awareness in which the countless things seem to appear and disappear in this moment of being now.
Concepts of 'being here now' and 'awareness' are only thoughts. Concepts are just thoughts appearing and disappearing and reformulating into more concepts. They appear to be true because they appear out of the truth of oneness, but they are just pieces that shine and pass on and never complete anything. There is nothing to complete because there really is nothing separated except in the appearance of things. We are already complete as awareness and we are awareness being here now. The sublime subtleness of that is the silence of what we are.
Those are concepts that are attempts to describe what my words and thoughts cannot touch. What this seeming separate "I" truly do not know but attempt to fathom anyway. |
Edited by - Balance on May 24 2009 2:48:32 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 6:21:17 PM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Thank you for your insightful and funny post. Two things in particular really stood out for me:
So: seeing through the unreality of anything *other* than presence, is the most powerful way I've found to practice presence.
I agree and this is such a good reminder that when we find ourselves in the jungle of thoughts again, going from one to the next with little space between, that seeing through the delusional thoughts that present themselves is a direct path back to being in the Now.
Being easy with it .
This is personally a good reminder as I tend to step on the "accelerator" of practices by doing more when I feel out of center.
Thanks for the links too, will have a look. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 6:41:13 PM
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Hi Louis,
Thanks for posting.
quote:
But all these little ways of bringing us into the present are mental tricks and are still packets of ideas. What happens me, is that these medhods get tired as I become acustomed to them and they then become part of the dream and I find myself disconnected again and again
So as I "wonder" through this amazing life of now, I need to stay open to new insights on how best to invigorate myself into the now stream, into life happening in and through me.
I agree the brain definitely habituates to mental methods and new ways need to be found to stay present in the way you describe. Kirtanman's great reminder however that seeing through those thought patterns as they present themselves with inquiry is so powerful as it releases the energy contained in the thoughts and less effort is required to stay present as everything in the Now becomes so much more fascinating and enthralling.
From my perspective and experience, we have energy invested "out-there" in those old thought patterns, hopes and expectations, we can feel it as emotions. As we truly let them go, that energy is released, making it easier (less distracting) to remain as we are in the Now as those thoughts don't have enough energy or emotional charge to pull our attention out of the Now.
For me when I am in a balanced state, the thoughts arise and flow out like fleeting moments. When I am in an "unbalanced" state, the thoughts grab me for longer durations and I suffer accordingly until it is seen through.
What confuses me the most these days is that although I recognize the delusional thinking behind all my suffering, I feel baffled at the times when I detect a significant emotional reaction to a given situation. In other words, even though I know better, I still have to watch the mind take the trip down delusional lane. Bizarre! |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 6:46:01 PM
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quote:
For me a big step can be removed as I see that what I am IS this moment of being now. I am never not this moment of being now. I am already that even when I may sometimes think I am working at getting myself back to that. The underlying awareness of this moment of being is always the true and fathomless nature of self. Of course I also seem to flit around and get lost in this moment of being. And the countless distractions are also this moment of being now as the play of life. But I am already always the awareness in which the countless things seem to appear and disappear in this moment of being now.
Concepts of 'being here now' and 'awareness' are only thoughts. Concepts are just thoughts appearing and disappearing and reformulating into more concepts. They appear to be true because they appear out of the truth of oneness, but they are just pieces that shine and pass on and never complete anything. There is nothing to complete because there really is nothing separated except in the appearance of things. We are already complete as awareness and we are awareness being here now. The sublime subtleness of that is the silence of what we are.
Thanks for your post Balance, full of great reminders and touches the heart with inner-silence. |
Edited by - Anthem on May 24 2009 6:46:40 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 7:28:39 PM
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I always find this 'being in the now' and being mindful quite a strange concept.
The thing is, as soon as you start thinking about how you can be in the moment then you are no longer in the moment !
Can you ever be only in the moment. Surely to be in the moment in a perfect sense would mean that you would be unable to construct a meaningful sentence or action.
If you reach that perfect state then all motion and thought ceases completely.
Is simply the realisation that this is the way things actually are sufficient. Simply to believe and have awareness of the falseness of future and past ? Is it a bit like the mantra during DM, to be aware that we have strayed away from the path and easily come back to the truth and simply laugh at our own twisted logic?
I think this, along with all types of spiritual awakening is simply down to practise born from the knowledge that we are really infinite even if we cannot define that infinity within our own limited understanding.
As William Blake wrote 'when the doors of perception are cleansed man will see things as they truly are, infinite'. We strive to cleanse those doors with any chosen methods including 'being in the now or the moment'. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2009 : 6:48:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
What confuses me the most these days is that although I recognize the delusional thinking behind all my suffering, I feel baffled at the times when I detect a significant emotional reaction to a given situation. In other words, even though I know better, I still have to watch the mind take the trip down delusional lane. Bizarre!
Hi Andrew
I had this happen me recently whilst on a retreat. Because of the higher energy of the retreat I had a very strong reaction to one of my colleagues. I felt hatred and anger very intensly. The stories went round for a couple of hours, I calmed down, I watched it all happening and then a certain point arrived when I was able to let go of the person completely and own it 100% as my own. I lay on the bed with pains in my chest, neck and solar plexues and just stayed with the awareness of this. Fell asleep and later woke up with no trace of the projections.
Looking back at this, it seemed like it was necessary for the energy of this locked away belief pattern to build up within me and emerge at the surface of my awareness as these physical pains. When this happened and I was no longer projecting the resolution came.
So, for me at least, it seems that with some stuck energies they need to go through a process in order to fully get to the surface. With the more superficial ones, they come and go easily.
Don't know if we are talking about the same thing, but that's what came to mind.
I have a hunch it might not get easier because it seems that the more space we generate within, the more these things are felt acutely, Katrine often talks about this. But then again I could be wrong, if so, this would be the second time
quote:
I agree the brain definitely habituates to mental methods and new ways need to be found to stay present in the way you describe. Kirtanman's great reminder however that seeing through those thought patterns as they present themselves with inquiry is so powerful as it releases the energy contained in the thoughts and less effort is required to stay present as everything in the Now becomes so much more fascinating and enthralling.
Yes, once the thought patterns above were fully owned by the body mind, the relief was immense, it was just aaaaaahhhhh, even though I still had physical pain, without the projecting of those thought patterns onto the other person and all the stories that go with it, there was a great release of bottled up energy |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2009 : 02:30:15 AM
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Thank you Louis for that post! I can totally relate to that. That's how I've been experiencing the releases of emotions and blockages and projections as well. A really nice description of it!
And this made me laugh out loud! quote:
But then again I could be wrong, if so, this would be the second time
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2009 : 02:54:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Thank you Louis for that post! I can totally relate to that. That's how I've been experiencing the releases of emotions and blockages and projections as well. A really nice description of it!
And this made me laugh out loud! quote:
But then again I could be wrong, if so, this would be the second time
Makes me laugh too. When on earth was actually the first time ?
Or was the first time not on this earth ?  |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2009 : 10:18:03 AM
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quote:
Looking back at this, it seemed like it was necessary for the energy of this locked away belief pattern to build up within me and emerge at the surface of my awareness as these physical pains. When this happened and I was no longer projecting the resolution came.
Hi Louis,
Sounds like a great release, thanks for sharing this. I can certainly relate having experienced similar things many times with emotions coming to the surface like that. The nice thing about inner silence is that we have much more space and freedom not to act out the emotions even when they are intense. They can play themselves out in the body as we observe instead of taking them out on others.
quote:
So, for me at least, it seems that with some stuck energies they need to go through a process in order to fully get to the surface. With the more superficial ones, they come and go easily
I see it this way too. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 05:10:59 AM
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Hi Louis
Thanks for sharing that release
quote:
Looking back at this, it seemed like it was necessary for the energy of this locked away belief pattern to build up within me and emerge at the surface of my awareness as these physical pains. When this happened and I was no longer projecting the resolution came.
Yes...this is my experience too. In fact....I cannot remember a single occation where physical pain was not involved as part of the complete letting go (as you say..this is regarding the deep issues...not the easy, superficial ones).
It is interesting......I have been hiking in the hills here a lot lately....I went up there again after work yesterday. There was no physical pain during the hike yesterday....but the first 2 hikes this spring....the weight of the rucksack (I always bring food and water with me).......after maybe 2 hours of walking...there would be pains in the muscles going from the neck to the shoulders/shoulderblades. After 3 hours...the pain became acute. And I noticed that i was bracing myself towards it. So....instead of making effort to carry the rucksack...I relaxed the shoulders into the pain....it was like taking full advantage of the weight and welcoming the pain....a letting go....a deep dropping down of the muscles in that aerea...and after about 10 minutes of this...the pains decreased with about 80 %...what was left was highly bearable. And what happened was that....after having come home...the day after the hike...there was increased purification.....emotions I didn't know was buried within...they came up and when witnessed released themselves. The emotions were not linked to any images...and no words either....just the energy of them. It was mostly feelings of sorrow and unspecified loss. So it seems that what you describe..... works the other way around too.....our issues are "stored" in our body....many physical therapies of course take advantage of this.
Last year...I had only a few hikes in the hills here. It was emotionally painful then. Because...it brought up the impact of years and years of hikes like that with my children and ex husband. The love of hiking was what he and I most had in comon. So i suspect the feelings of sorrow and loss were linked to that. But it was a great relief that they came without images and words....and that hiking only brought physical pain this year
Mind winds down really fast when exercising like this.....and the joy of being silently present in mother nature is ....very blissful. So I come home...being very quiet inside. As before....when the spaciousness is great....the unlocked emotions...they were acutely felt. But...as Andrew points out.....they are at the same time surrounded by space....so it is in this manner easier....because it is so obvious that they are happening within what I am. This....does make it easier and easier....but only after one has accepted whatever it is that goes on... to be...like you say...100% coming from oneself . Before that.....in my experience.....it only get's more and more difficult. In other words....it becomes more and more painful here to be stubborn It is this part....the always being open to the fact that every issue is 100 % in this opening....that is the challenging part...since it is always here the "edge" is. The tension point between what is....and what is not.
And your way of working through it is beautiful.....because gentleness is needed. I can't force myself to let go...to accept.
quote:
But then again I could be wrong, if so, this would be the second time
*LOL*
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 09:55:05 AM
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Brother Kirtanman, thanks so much for giving the Vijnana Bhairava link. There's so much richness there - the idea that the gateways to the infinite are everywhere. As Tantrikas, we search for them everywhere!
I've been told countless times to 'live in the moment' by well-meaning people, but what they're advising is to fill each moment with as much subjective experience and sensation as possible. Live it up today, 'cause you might be dead tomorrow... It's taken me years to realize why I always found that so funny, but the other day I was driving home from dropping my daughter off at school and found myself in a state of complete, calm detatchment. I was inhabiting the moment, but like an insect caught in amber (except without the implications of death, constriction or being trapped!): pure observation, nothing coming in, nothing going out.
That stayed with me all day and I dared to think it might last, might even be permanent, but I woke up the next day with the usual flutterings and twitchings of the everyday. At least now I know what it feels like. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 11:03:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
That stayed with me all day and I dared to think it might last, might even be permanent, but I woke up the next day with the usual flutterings and twitchings of the everyday. At least now I know what it feels like.
Beautiful Grihastha.
Yes.. when you think.. wonder if this is it.. it slips away.. its like dipping an open palm in a flowing river and enjoying the flow.. the min you close it in a fist and try to hold the river.. you lose it. Just opening and letting flow lets us enjoy the moment so much more. Not worrying if this is permanent.. it just is.. enjoy it while it is here and maybe it will be permanent.. if not.. well then it is not...
Thank you for sharing. |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 11:20:47 AM
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Thanks for your kind words, Shanti!
Something just came to me in meditation. I do a round of jap before starting pranayama in the morning. Then it struck me: each moment is like a bead on a mala. It passes through our fingers with a prayer and is gone. We feel it with finger and thumb - experience and acknowledge it, and let it go. And with the mantra, recognize its divinity. And then it's gone. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 1:05:21 PM
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thx for those interesting book links,K.indeed, All of Oldiers' books loook gd,such as 'meditation technques....' and 'desire- the tantric path to awakening'. osho's ' book of secrets' looks good too.( another book on meditation= 112 techniques/ways to suit every kind of contemporary man). I think i'll stick with DM for the moment though.
googling 'tantrika' churned up these:-
http://www.religiousworlds.com/mandalam/index.html
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/HT77/
http://www.tantrika.com/
'(Tantra is)(Relaxation with Awareness) (for commited lovers who love from the heart)(Using sexual energy to expand our awareness)(A Warrior Path) (" A most serious path")(the way of the hero who neither rejects nor fears any aspect life)
Liberation
through
Expansion
of
Consciousness'
This quote(s)^ is pulled from that last link
More goodness |
Edited by - Akasha on May 29 2009 1:08:47 PM |
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shaktipath
Croatia
12 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2009 : 4:43:49 PM
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Namaste!
Thank you Anthem11 for such a beautiful an inspiring tread. It has great significance and signpost for those who are heading towards presence which is orgasmic and ecstatic.
Just would add one perspective which might come handy on the way.
It is always NOW, just you write down on a sticker and stick it to your clock and check it out on a regular basis and whenever you look it will be= Now is timeless and definitely is a dimension of being, not thinking. So if we look at it from the perspective of our eternal consciousness there is no problem, but we would like to grasp it from our mind/material existence and as our body has limited life span we tend to be focused on its rest periods days and nights. When you look at this situation from space there is earth circling around the Sun just like electrons around nucleus, no day no nights.
To experience this immersion in to the reality of which Masters of the past have been speaking, one has to stop the mind hence all the practices and purifications. Although we are all enlightened and nothing we need to add, so much is added in the course of education and indoctrination that it has to be discovered again.
PS. I apologize for entering with first post in such a way. But It has been great pleasure to discover this group and my deepest bows and gratitude to Yogany for the abundant fruits of his growth. May we plant the seeds and bloom with fragrant flowers that might give new fruits -food and seeds again.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2009 : 4:50:16 PM
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Hi Shaktipath
Thank you for the lovely post and for being here NOW
Just tiptoing in to wish you welcome to the forum :-) |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 08:08:51 AM
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Hi Shaktipath,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for your post, I agree with you and see it the same way.
I especially liked this example:
When you look at this situation from space there is earth circling around the Sun just like electrons around nucleus, no day no nights.
A great perspective to illustrate the point.
Best wishes,
A |
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IcedEarth
73 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 10:13:48 AM
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| What do you guys think of the practice we might call to "mind the gap"? As in, doing our practices twice daily, and then as a self-inquiry practice, to always be aware of the silent gap between thoughts, and to return to being aware of the gap whenever we notice we have been wrapped up in thought. Isn't being aware of the gap considered the fundamental practice of being in the Now, and of self-inquiry? |
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shaktipath
Croatia
12 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2009 : 3:49:52 PM
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Thank you for your kindness Anthem and Katrine, it is a treat to receive such nice energies wrapped up in these posts!
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The essential practice of Being Here and Now
