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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
 Posted - May 16 2009 : 09:43:03 AM
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Hi all,
I'm thinking of increasing the time I spend on spinal breathing and I'm wondering how long should I practice it? Is there a concept of "overdoing one particular practice" other than what's been mentioned in self pacing topics? I used to do it for 10 min twice daily and spend the rest of my time on chin pump, yoni mudra, bastrika and navi kriya thinking that those are more powerful and are probably more worthy of time but slowly I'm starting to think maybe I should do 25 min of spinal breathing twice daily and leave the more advance practices for when I get some ecstatic conductivity going on. Please let me know your view on that.
I should mention that for whatever reason I don't have any self pacing issues. The only practice that I need to self pace is samyama. Other than that apparenly I can do 40 cycles of yoni mudra kambhaka and 150 cycles of navi kriya in a day and still feel usual. That makes me wonder if I need to focus my time and energy on basic practices rather than advances ones. I appreciate your guidance. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2009 : 10:48:19 AM
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Hi Emil
A few people here do more that 10 minutes spinal breathing there is no hard and fast rule on this but please be carefully and don't overdo it.
Have a look at this thread it may be of help to you
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=5382#5382
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2009 : 1:45:54 PM
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I agree with Richard, please do watch out for overloads. They tend to creep up on you when you are least expecting it. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2009 : 10:18:50 PM
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2 hours
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2009 : 10:45:01 PM
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| 15 minutes is good for me. |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 10:17:40 AM
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Brother Neil,
Are you serious, or is this a joke?
If your serious, is this 2 hours at a sitting (twice a day), or 1 hr each sitting? Right now I've increased (over a 4 month period) from the recomemded 10 min. to between 20 and 40 min. of SBP (39 to 72 Kriya) at each sitting depending upon how much time I have. I've been concerned about this cause it seems that most of the people on this site seem to be at 10 to 15 minutes and I keep waiting for some kind of major overload but everything is smooth. I would like to continue to increase to about 1 hr twice a day but I guess I wanted to see if other people are doing this much SPB.
Bob
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 1:48:30 PM
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Why increase it? What do you expect to be the effect of the increase? What is your ayurvedic constitution? Are you taking that into consideration?
Jon
quote:
Originally posted by Emil
Hi all,
I'm thinking of increasing the time I spend on spinal breathing and I'm wondering how long should I practice it? Is there a concept of "overdoing one particular practice" other than what's been mentioned in self pacing topics? I used to do it for 10 min twice daily and spend the rest of my time on chin pump, yoni mudra, bastrika and navi kriya thinking that those are more powerful and are probably more worthy of time but slowly I'm starting to think maybe I should do 25 min of spinal breathing twice daily and leave the more advance practices for when I get some ecstatic conductivity going on. Please let me know your view on that.
I should mention that for whatever reason I don't have any self pacing issues. The only practice that I need to self pace is samyama. Other than that apparenly I can do 40 cycles of yoni mudra kambhaka and 150 cycles of navi kriya in a day and still feel usual. That makes me wonder if I need to focus my time and energy on basic practices rather than advances ones. I appreciate your guidance.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 2:05:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RSS
Brother Neil,
Are you serious, or is this a joke?
If your serious, is this 2 hours at a sitting (twice a day), or 1 hr each sitting? Right now I've increased (over a 4 month period) from the recomemded 10 min. to between 20 and 40 min. of SBP (39 to 72 Kriya) at each sitting depending upon how much time I have. I've been concerned about this cause it seems that most of the people on this site seem to be at 10 to 15 minutes and I keep waiting for some kind of major overload but everything is smooth. I would like to continue to increase to about 1 hr twice a day but I guess I wanted to see if other people are doing this much SPB.
Bob
I was just messing around
instead of doing the SBP, have you tried adding other practices as mentioned in the 8 limbs book?
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 2:54:58 PM
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Brother Neil,
I'm also doing chin pump, yoni mudra, bastrika and 20 min of DM. I'm just starting to feel some energy and I figured kicking it up a couple of notches would really get things going. Too bad, I thought you were serious about the 2 hours.
Anyone out there doing huge amounts of kriya/SBP?
Bob |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 4:04:17 PM
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@RSS
Your observations are important and they do stick with mine and for sure many many kriya yogis, who primarily push that kind of pranayama. I don't know why, but generally (for my body) all kind of pranayama's are much more smooth than any kind of mantra technique, may it be without local focus or unto specific chakras. You can do spinal breathing pranayama steadily increasing month by month up to 6-10 hours if you adopt eating and living habit accordingly. But solely doing pranayama will drive you crazy. The silence and witness component is most important. If you live in a quiet place and give your life to this, where you don't eat much, don't have conversations, in general don't have much input/output perhaps you can just do it by pranayama.
There are hatha yogis, who just push nadi sodhana (alternate nostril breathing), giving it some 10 hours/day and only eat about 1-2 fruits/day with some milk. The reported time to samadhi is about 3 months. Parallely they clean the whole system with the known 6 shat karmas. I was once encouraged to try the same, but starting with university made it quiet impossible very fast =)
Kriya yogis alo start with ~10 minutes of SBP and give exact numbers of repetition and timing to the first sammadhi, which is about 2-2.5 hours per day for about 4,5 months. They don't do it solely, the whole set starts with a special asana practice, followed by some navel-chakra stimulation, then goes on with the SBP main practice called kriya pranayama and ends the session with yoni mudra in silence.
I love the unbelievable precision of that system, but it is not easy to bring such an effort into every day living for a greater market of different people. Intense bhakti is needed.
Mantra techniques are very strong and effective as most people (especially here) confirm. More than 20-30 minutes is too much even for some advanced bodies who already practice for some years.
@Emil
I can't give you the best solution as I have not done most of the techniques you do for longer periods. I can assure you, that there is a big difference of 10mins SBP + 20min DM vs. 1h SBP + 20min DM. The latter deepens the DM part to great levels and the rest of the day is somewhat more like "yea, now I see what Yogani is talking about, what an amazing system". But I am not sure how long this will be stable and perhaps even end with a full stop. It happened lots of times to me. You get to see where this whole is going and your bhakti rises, but you also see that stable and slow progress is much more safe and easy than pushing it straight forward while living in a busy society.
@JDAS
the effect is duality transcending awareness growing very fast in that bodily system. Probably too fast for most as all the words about love and unity suddenly become your very own experience. It is not by chance that tibetan buddhist give their whole life to one technique named vasebreathing + inner fire, just to bring all the life forces into the centralchannel which gives rise to nondual awareness precisely and instantly. The approach in AYP is different as it uses a special mantra that does the very same on a more refined level. This is easier for most and has unknown depths for most at the same time. It is stable and gives you enough time to adjust.
I think everyone is wise enough to just take the information and go on with what is calling inside them. For those with high bhakti and infinite time, increasing pranayama is a good option to speed up the whole process. |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 10:08:26 PM
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Hi Holy,
Great post. Lots of good info here. Since I just got to 40 min SBP + 20 min DM, I'll stay at this level for about a month and see how it goes before increasing the SBP any more.
One more question.
I go back and forth between between SBP (with kechari stage 2) & Kriya (SRF style - open mouth, ah & ee sound) depending upon what I'm in the mood to do, or if my nose is clogged up or not. Is one more desirable to do than the other or does it not matter? I feel like the open mouth Kriya is a little more intense. Maybe because I'm breathing slower and deeper with Kriya than I do with SBP.
Thanks,
Bob |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:16:03 AM
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Hi RSS,
I am taking SRF lessons in India (called YSS here), for the last 10 months. I should be taking Diksha soon. I was wondering how many Kriyas are taught, and what these are. If you have read Satyananda Saraswati's book on Kundalini Tantra, he talks about 19 Kriyas in Kriya Yoga, and I have been doing some of these as preparatory to receiving Diksha. In your view, would the Kriya Yoga Kriyas be practicable for a senior citizen? Grateful for your response.
Krish |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:55:44 AM
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Hi JDas,
What I'm looking for is pretty much what Holy described.
It might seem as I'm being too greedy or want to get thins fast but that's not the case. I have been practicing meditation for nearly two decades and I'm still the un-happiest person I know. I generally have no interest in life. Nothing in life fascinates me. If it was up to me I had ended up my life years ago. I'm not suicidal or anything. It's just that I never wanted to be alive and nothing for me is worth getting out of the bed in the morning. For me yoga is a way to either find a reasonable level of happiness or end my life in a way that I'm never born again. something like achieving buddha-hood when you die and you're never born again. The problem is my past efforts have been relatively fruitless. That's why I'm prepared to spend as much time as it takes to get things going at any price (even if the price is a painful and life threatening kundalini awakening or crown opening).
About ayurveda, no I haven't taken that into account and I don't know how it would affect my practices. I'm mostly a Vata type. I have equal amount of Pitta and Kapha but far less than my Vata dosha. I'm also a slim type and tall with not much muscles which is a standard Vata body. Can you please tell me how this affects my spinal breathing? |
Edited by - Emil on May 18 2009 02:14:28 AM |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 01:24:54 AM
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Hi Holy,
Thanks for your post. I don't have infinite time but I know that in future I'm gonna be more busy than I am right now. This makes me interested to spend more time on yoga (maybe 4-5 hours daily) over the next few months and hopefully achieve a reasonable level of bliss that I can maintain with a shorter routine (maybe 2 hours daily) later on when my life gets more busy. Your post inspires me to increase my spinal breathing to maybe 30 min twice daily to see how it feels.
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Edited by - Emil on May 18 2009 02:14:28 AM |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 08:30:31 AM
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Krish,
I bought Satyananda Saraswati's book at about the same time I found this site. I thought it was way to complicated and put it on the shelf and focused my time and energy on the techs on this site. I did not want to give up kriya, so I was glad to see that the main kriya pranayama with SRF is very similar to SBP. Also, I'd rather do a few techs longer than trying to fit 19 into a session. Satyananda Saraswati's kriya doesn't seem to have any correlation at all to the SRF/YSS kriya. I tried to find common ground but couldn't. Again, It was too complicated and the book remains on my shelf.
SRF/YSS has 4 kriya techs that are taught. The first one is the main one. I got the first two but never implimented the second one. Unfortunately, it takes years to get all 4. Unlike AYP where everything is out there for you to decide what you want to do and what your timeline will be.
I don't think being a senior citizen would be an issue unless you are in poor health. ie: heart or breathing issues. My dad is 84 and still jogs every day. That's a lot harder than doing kriya.
Hope this helps,
Bob
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 08:45:17 AM
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Emil,
I'm sad to hear that your not enjoying your life. I went through a period during college and shortly thereafter that I was dealing with panic attacks and some depression. What helped me tremendously when I was either anxious or depressed was exercise (running in my case). I started training for a marathon. My whole outlook on life change and this period in my life became very happy and enjoyable. There were times during a 12 mile training run that I was so happy I was almost crying while I was running. Also, I find that too much meditation without exercise to balance it is not uplifting.
Bob
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 09:20:26 AM
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@RSS
I don't know since when you started with your practices, as 40 + 20 mins is already a high amount, especially in combination with the AYP mantra IAM. In the end seek something that works and you can do without playing ping pong all the time. Out of my curiosity to try all techniques and combinations from different sytems, that is what happened to me. If I had sticked to one system and continued with it the whole time, it would be much better for sure. This way I can provide information about this topic, but to find something that works for the longterm and suits you is much more important.
I have come across many modifications of the original kriya breath. The breathing technique itself is known under many names accoring to another kriya yogi called Gurunath Siddhanath who is a direct diciple of Babaji and has learned under many yogis of the kriya lineage. There is the main kriya breath also known as kriya proper which is breathing only. For many it is also known as the first kriya and according to Lahiri Mahasaya itself all can be done with it. The higher kriyas are for very eager students and are much likely very similiar to the AYP "energy cultivating techniques". Nearly the same. The classic kriya proper pranayma is also done with the nose and without any additional sounds like that of Yogananda. His kriya is also limited to 14 repetitions and then mantras are added to the breathing style and specific head movements too. So when I am talking about the kriya breath, I just mean the mantra-less kriya proper. I dont think that it is a good idea to jump around everytime from one to another breathing style. The main information here ( and you find it elsewhere on this site too, also coming from yogani himself) is: increasing pranayama, that brings the life force into the central channel has strong effects and can speed up the cleansing dramatically.
@Emil
In my experience that doesn't work =) There were times where I had overdone it for some months and then stopped everything completely and still had a high level awareness continueing for 2 weeks. I was sure it is permanent forever. And without noticing this awareness dropped and dropped and dropped until after some months I asked my self, what have I done? The voice in my head had tricked me once again =) Sure, it has some far reaching effects, the next time you start, you are more sensible and you reach the level of awareness within some weeks or little months again. But that is the yoyo-effect you want to avoid in the end.
Your approach would give you some jump-start cleansing for higher levels of awareness and functioning in your particular body, but if it will make a big difference in the longterm, I'm not quiet sure =) The kriya yoga approach is different and relies on steadily increasing the time until you don't need any oxygen anymore and even your heart can stop without any health problems for your physical body. In this intense silence and absorption when all bodily energies meet in the central channel and your awareness rests in its own pure bliss, this is called savikalpa samadhi according to that system. Repeated savikalpa samadhis lead to nirvikalpa samadhi where this state fuses with everyday living, also known as the permanent state. That is the kriya approach, very hefty and dramatic for most people. The ayp approach is way more soft and stable and has not the primary aim to stop breath and heart. You will know what suits your living condition most. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 09:27:31 AM
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@Krish
the 19 kriyas of kundalini tantra are again a different approach. When I use the term kriya yoga, I mean the one taught by Babaji - Lahiri Mahasaya - ...
The word kriya means action, that's the reason you find it in many other systems too. It's like using the word technique. |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:17:28 PM
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Thanks Holy,
I don't intend to stop the practices and get a free ride. Just want to gain more form yoga while I have more time in hand. I'll try to increase my SBP to see how it works out.
RSS,
Thanks for the advice. Although I have tried sports and didn't make me feel better. My problem seems to be unique in some ways and different to depression. I feel that life has been imposed on me. It's been given to me while I had no desire for it. Now, I know how stupid that feels but imagine that you have a one year old kid who doesn't yet know what candy is. And you start filling his mouth with candy every day. When he gets to the age of 5 he wouldn't like candy the way other kids do. That's because the desire was never created. That's how I feel about life. I feel the desire for being alive was never created in me. At times when I avoid food for a while there are moments that I feel I'm dying. At such moments I lie in bed and happily surrender my self and wait to be switched off and simply "gone" forever but surprisingly it never happens. There's always a next day and a next day.
I don't have any real objection to life and my situation. I also like the world the way it is but it looks like an old computer game that I just don't want to play. Every breath I take is an effort and the amount of happiness that I get from it is not worth that effort. I feel that this life should have been given to people or beings who wanted it rather than me. I was quite young when I started to feel that I had lived long enough saying to myself: if I don't find something exciting in life I'd wanna quit. Unfortunately even spiritual practices didn't give me anything to live for. I'm only 30+ years old and I feel I have lived this life for a 100 years. For all those reasons I don't want a new activity or point of view. I just want to see the end.
I know that most of you guys are fundamentally different to me. i.e. you have a natural desire for being alive. When you get sick you hope to get better not worse. I have no idea where I lost my desire for life but I think as soon as my ego disappears with yoga practices then I could live effortlessly like a plant. Then it doesn't matter anymore whether I'm alive or dead and I'm looking forward to that moment. |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:26:21 PM
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Everyone,
For all those who came here to read about Spinal Breathing and got caught in my lame nagging I rephrase the original question of this thread: Which one of the following practices are better for a yogi that has absolutely no ecstatic conductivity:
A) 10min SBP + 10min Yoni mudra + 5min Spinal Bastrika + 20min DM
B) 25min SBP + 20 DM
A Or B? |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 12:49:35 PM
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C) 20min SPB + (4min Yoni Mudra OR 4min Chin Pump) + 4min Spinal Bastrika + 20min DM + 5min Rest
But don't listen to me. I'm just now starting to feel a little tingling in the spine. Put more stock in what others think.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 7:32:29 PM
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Is it your ego telling you life sucks? is it your ego saying there is nothing to live for? You could always try going somewhere that people are doing happy things, like children playing, and just observe. I held my six month old niece and watched her play with a piece of tree for 15 minutes. Do you believe getting more into the practices and less in the world is your solution? From my experience it is not my solution. Maybe if you cant find anything fun to do then go do something that scares you. Maybe jump from a plane or something
My best to you brother
Neil
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 8:21:12 PM
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a little story
a couple weeks ago, feeling of depression something like that. I went in a boat and started to pick up trash while floating on the shoreline. after a bit something changed, I relaxed into the moment. Then I floated by a woman, about 25, and just thought, Wow, she is beautiful. Not in a lustful way, in an admiring way, admiring a creation of God. Then later I floated by someone and had a pleasant passing conversation, then another person and had a funny conversation, he was a gay guy, I used to be against gays, not anymore. That had changed quite a while ago. Maybe you are closer then you think, you have nothing to live for, so now you are free to do anything.
with love
Brother Neil
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 10:16:16 PM
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Hi Emil,
A couple of points...
>I'm still the un-happiest person I know.<
You don't know that and you'll never know that. Your mind believes that.
Your description of your interior condition is impressive. I am impressed. Have you tried any mind-altering drugs, such as LSD? Have you read any books by Aldous Huxley or Ram Dass? Might be worth a shot. You might need that kind of artificial doorway. I myself have not tried that route but Ram Dass and Timothy Leary swore by it. Just a thought as I recently watched 'Fierce Grace', documentary about Ram Dass.
About ayurveda. Well, I'm not an expert. Few are, but generally vatas tend to breath shallowly, particularly on the inhale and pranayam is often prescribed to balance vata, so perhaps increasing SBP is the right prescription. Also, it might be worth it for you to visit an ayurveda practitioner as well. Why not? What have you got to lose?
Tks for your story. I wish I could just hand you some of me, or let your consciousness share mine for a while.
Love,
Jon
quote:
Originally posted by Emil
Hi JDas,
What I'm looking for is pretty much what Holy described.
It might seem as I'm being too greedy or want to get thins fast but that's not the case. I have been practicing meditation for nearly two decades and I'm still the un-happiest person I know. I generally have no interest in life. Nothing in life fascinates me. If it was up to me I had ended up my life years ago. I'm not suicidal or anything. It's just that I never wanted to be alive and nothing for me is worth getting out of the bed in the morning. For me yoga is a way to either find a reasonable level of happiness or end my life in a way that I'm never born again. something like achieving buddha-hood when you die and you're never born again. The problem is my past efforts have been relatively fruitless. That's why I'm prepared to spend as much time as it takes to get things going at any price (even if the price is a painful and life threatening kundalini awakening or crown opening).
About ayurveda, no I haven't taken that into account and I don't know how it would affect my practices. I'm mostly a Vata type. I have equal amount of Pitta and Kapha but far less than my Vata dosha. I'm also a slim type and tall with not much muscles which is a standard Vata body. Can you please tell me how this affects my spinal breathing?
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2009 : 10:36:05 PM
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Hi JDas,
Thanks for your support and advice. I haven't read from the authors you mentioned but I will.
I understand that being unhappy is a product of the mind but that's the only reality I know right now. If I can get access to an alternative reality then I'd be able to transcend this one and I prefer to do that through practices rather than through chemical ways unless as a last resort. (However I'm interested to read about it for now).
I've noticed that my mind seems to have too much control over me and that could be responsible for my unhappiness. For example I never do things that I don't like. Never ever. Also I never do things that I believe are wrong and that is also a "never ever" for me but I know that most normal people do compromises every now and then. It's like I have red lines that I never cross and this tells me my mind has too much control over me comparing to average human being. That's why I'm doing more yoga practices and most people do. I'm hoping that a kundalini awakening could fix my mind/body to some extend and bring me back on the mainstream. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2009 : 5:19:09 PM
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There is one other big factor in pranayama, that most people overlook naturally. The reason is, most people are not able to breath very slowly right from the start, so I observed this with many others and especially with my own body. The jumpy mind doesn't like slow breathing as slow breathing slows down the thinking process too. There is a big difference between 1 SBP-round of 10 secs and 30secs. There is also a big difference between 30 and 60 secs. And so on. You need to try and observe it. If you breath in a fast or "normal" mode, your mindsubstance will make its lovely dance and not only bring your attention away from the spinal nerve, it will hinder your awareness to dive deep into the spinal nerve also.
In my experience, 10 minutes of slow concentrated breathing is much more effective than 30 minutes normal breathing with a jumpy mind. The first brings heightened nondual awareness, the second much burning without having the same degree of awareness-expansion.
Breathing slowly has not only the effect of slowing down the mental activity together with more clarity and easier concentration-ability. It also lets you be more and longer aware within all the parts of the central channel. This being longer silently aware within the spinal nerve brings about highly increased perception within it too. That means if you could not feel the energy so far, you start feeling and seeing the energy. Because of your slowlyness you can more easily fuse feeling/vision, breath and awarenes and come into the mystic timetranscending flow of this technique. And most importantly, this being longer and slower and more silently (mindwise) within the spinal nerve brings about unending extatic intoxication. Along the road on different heights different types of bliss/peace/love is felt.
I know, all of this Yogani has already written in his explanations, but I many many times cheated myself to breath relatively normal-fast and let the mind do its unending movements without getting good results.
______
@Emil
going out into the nature, doing physical activity, being creative like painting, producing or playing music, constructing whatsoever was always needed for my body-mind-system not to drive crazy. I did some approaches the hermit-like-way, but could not handle it in heavy kundalini times. Later on, one could say last and this year, I came across Maitreya Ishwara's online-vids and his unitybook and even once was in his satsang. And the type of meditation I learned there helped me infinitely. It is watching what is happening within the body, first watching the energy of the body, second adding something else, like the sound of the energy, third adding the thoughts itself. Observing what is happening within you without doing anything brings great peace and bliss. This was also the method where I the first time started to observe the mind itself dissolve for longer minutes ( at first some seconds) many times per session which braught about bliss for the whole day. Later on this was a little problem for the mind which was needed for studying ^^ That's without joke the only reason I stopped it. It felt like the final method, taking many hours per day, but seemingly having no end in depth. And it is very smooth if you can let go. There was never a burning sensation, it was always bliss or burning bliss. With mantra type meditations discomfort is higher and you can easily overdo it and ask yourself: "wasn't the primary aim of meditation silent pure bliss awareness?" "and where is the extatic feelings within pranayama? I am just burning...". It is much harder to balance powerful methods where the fruits come over the longterm. The Maitreya approach would be my first choice if I was already retired or know that the coming months and years, my life will be very easy timewise/mind-activity-wise.. For busy people, Yogani's appoach seems to be one of the best. Perhaps it is also one of the best for not so busy people. You will get to know what works best anyway. |
Edited by - Holy on May 21 2009 09:14:50 AM |
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Spinal Breathing, how long?
