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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - May 03 2009 : 2:00:55 PM
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I am reading the B Gita at the moment and finding it fascinating. There is almost a duality in each verse as if parts refer to different levels of understanding almost like puzzles. Anyway I digress.
I noticed some differences in the AYP method and the Gita method. For instance, the Gita suggests half open eyes, vision on the tip of the nose while concentrating on the space between the eyebrows.
There is a suggestion that Yoga is not the best way forward during the time of Kali and simply saying the Hari Krisna mantra is sufficient.
It's very confusing because of by perceived understanding that some kind of duality exists in the text, almost like a trap for the unwary. Then of course the translation of the text might be wrong.
There is knowledge about stillness of the mind but there is a caveat about 'the void' simply being an illusion.
I have read Yogani's view on the Gita though it really does not go into detail other than to say the method is based on the translated text.
Has anyone else studied this with reference to the AYP technique? |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 4:53:06 PM
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karl, it is you that picks your path.
I have read the gita, among many many books.
The reason I like the ayp approach is that it has a full circle of practices. AYP looks at what you eat, physical fitness, quieting the mind, stretching, pranayama, what your true desires are, etc... Tackling something from many sides makes sense to me.
my best to you brother |
Edited by - brother neil on May 03 2009 5:02:19 PM |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 01:10:32 AM
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Karl, I suggest you also read Kundalini Tantra by Satyananda Saraswati of Bihar School of Yoga.
Krish |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 03:49:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
karl, it is you that picks your path.
I have read the gita, among many many books.
The reason I like the ayp approach is that it has a full circle of practices. AYP looks at what you eat, physical fitness, quieting the mind, stretching, pranayama, what your true desires are, etc... Tackling something from many sides makes sense to me.
my best to you brother
Thank you Brother Neil and that makes sense to me on one level and here is where it gets tricky.
If choosing my path = asking that very question and hearing an answer it is also part of my path.
Is there a wrong answer ? in so much as a there can be no diversions in an endless journey. If that is true then doing anything or doing nothing is acceptable.
Is this then simply 'fruitive activity' ?
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 10:21:28 AM
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quote:
The reason I like the ayp approach is that it has a full circle of practices. AYP looks at what you eat, physical fitness, quieting the mind, stretching, pranayama, what your true desires are, etc...
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 7:07:31 PM
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Karl,
is there a wrong path? well some say no. I look at it like this. there are many golf instructors. many different theories on ways to swing. If you come upon an instructor whose theory seems sound, why keep looking for another instructor. I would suggest that if someone is attracted to that instructor to get on with it and work on the methods prescribed. Otherwise you spend a lot of time jumping from here to there, instead of traveling a path. Looking under many stones may make one tired.
My suggestion is to choose a path, go into it deeply, with a sense of lightness. I say this after the Ego has been beaten down many times. The sooner one surrenders, the sooner one may leave suffering. Choose a path that makes sense, and follow your heart.
It is not up to me to decide what is necessary for you. that is up to you. My best to you
with love
Brother Neil
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2009 : 1:08:46 PM
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I have read the answers and still not sure if I understand my own question  never mind trying to connect the answers with the question.
It's not so much about the technique, more about the whole reason behind practising Yoga (or indeed any form of self developmental technique).
Previously I have been a complete agnostic. Very much 'live and let live' but witnessing a lot of hypochrisy within religious circles.
The Gita lays something out which makes sense to me on many levels. At first I was unhappy with a lot of the scripts and reading it made me feel quite uncomfortable, but after several weeks of reading it has begun to make sense in those areas that have previously tied me up with a looped logic (a typical example is 'by thinking that the Ego has finally perished, it is replaced by the ego of thinking you are better than you once were. It's a bit like cutting up Dandelions without taking out the roots).
So, with that in mind, the Gita expands on this and mentions how someone seeking knowledge, peace, freedom through meditation is actually continuing to follow the same material instinct just in another form. So, for instance there is quite a lot of scripture around animal lust and sex.
There is instruction that you should avoid sex, but it is not an instruction in the same sense as would be given within a traditional church setting, it simply says that becoming celibate is only acceptable if you no longer crave sex. There is no demand for someone to give up sex unless they no longer have the desire, because otherwise it is a false statement of intent.
So, I suppose I am questioning more than simply which is the best practise. I'm really asking if anyone follows the Gita philosophy and if they do, does AYP take you away from this course.
Oh and incase you wondered I am in the 'not giving up sex because i still like it'camp  There seems to be room for that at least pheww!!
I know there is going to be pointers towards the inner Guru and the fact that it is my journey, my choices and I understand that perfectly. I just wanted to explore other opinions as part of my own journey  |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2009 : 9:28:11 PM
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SO is the mind trying to figure things out? So the Gita says to gain no knowledge, but yet you read it for what? Do not meditate, but yet when you read words you dont meditate on them? If I was going into a war, and decided that I did not believe in killing, for me the only reason I would stay is if I felt I could save more lives then I killed, and then I still do not know if it is worth it, I would not want to kill another human. Seeking peace and what not, well again those divine paradoxes. If you seek peace it will avoid you it seems, when I do the practices my intention is to lot go of all seeking, do the practies and benefits may come. The moment I attach to those benefits, they seem to leave, ego seems to destroy all good things.
Only when we give up can we give in to what we are doing. Stop seeking, surrender, give up, all while doing your chosen practice. AYP is a means for me to find what is in my heart to do. There are other practices that facilitate this as well. If you like the Gita, follow it with all your heart, regardless of what others say. THe best advice I can give to you by personal experience is choose and then stop seeking.
much love to you
brother Neil
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2009 : 02:59:21 AM
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It's been years since I've read the Gita, but keep in mind that AYP is quite flexible.
For example:
quote:
Originally posted by karl
I noticed some differences in the AYP method and the Gita method. For instance, the Gita suggests half open eyes, vision on the tip of the nose while concentrating on the space between the eyebrows.
You can do this with AYP Deep Meditation. I sometimes do. It doesn't have to be either/or.
Easy, right?
Enjoy your practice my friend |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2009 : 08:36:32 AM
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Thanks for both replies. That helps as it indicates you have already been where I am now. The trick then is to give up seeking and only to do this when I know that is the right path.
Once the seeker stops seeking only then is their true nature revealed !
Like the context that you read a parable such as The Alchemist but working in a level that is spiritual and not material. In that case what was been desired was at the place the journey started and was only revealed when the traveller had lost hope of finding anything and thought they were close to death.
I read this on a material level, but on a spiritual level it reveals itself in a similar way. That which you seek, that which you do not know exists, is hidden from you by the nature of the quest and the searching. When you give up hope of finding the thing that you do not know exists, then it is revealed, right at the place you least expected.
Ranks righ up there with any high level maths theory.A veritable brain teaser. To seek=not to find not to seek=not to find to give up seeking while still believing something exists=not to find to truly give up seeking = to find something you did not know you wanted |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2009 : 10:28:54 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 12:33:14 PM
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Now re-reading the Gita for the second time.
It suddenly makes far more sense. First read made it feel a very narrow view of the world. Now it gives up far more.
It tells that there are many ways to the destination including straight philosophy.
The puzzle begins to unravel.
I wonder if Hari Krisna Hari Hari Krisna Krisna Hari Rama rama rama Hari Hari can be used as a meditation mantra ?
Tried it and it felt enormously powerful though I will stick to Shree Shree Iam Iam for now.
What about being mindful of everything belonging to God/Krisna or whatever? That for me is about surrender of the senses (something which the Bible mentions many times with surrender to God). That suggests the same ongoing work as mentioned in AYP which is day to day inquirey and an end to dualism.
Is the Devil simply the manifested, material world in these scripts ? |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 1:16:12 PM
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Do you read an interpreted version, if yes which one?
I recommend the one from Yogananda.
There are huge differences in general, best is to read the translation only and to interpret your own which will be the best for you in this time. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2010 : 1:52:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy
Do you read an interpreted version, if yes which one?
I recommend the one from Yogananda.
There are huge differences in general, best is to read the translation only and to interpret your own which will be the best for you in this time.
Bhagavad Gita as it is by AC Bhaktivendanta swami Prabhupada.
I read both the translation and the interpretation after if it is not clear. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 05:11:18 AM
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Hi Karl,
I would recommend that you get another translation of the Gita.
There are many good translations with commentary. My favorite is the translation and commentary by Sri Aurobindo... it is excellent. You can get it from Amazon:
http://tinyurl.com/26qdvsb
I would also recommend the translation and commentary by Yogananda as Holy suggested. (Amazon again):
http://tinyurl.com/2ecj3jg
There are plenty of others that are good.
All the best.
Christi |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 11:56:43 AM
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I first read the version of Swami Prabhupada. While reading the translations and then his commentaries, for me it was clear that he directed the content to a more bhakti-understanding and was against any more direct yogic techniques.
Then I read Yogananda's version and it really opened up my eyes BIG times. Even though Yogananda talks a lot and repeats a lot, he gives such immense insight into the kriya yogic aspects.
He also makes it clear, which forces are constantly cheating and hindering you to enter sushumna. So his version for sure is "nearer" to AYP.
@Christi
how is Sri Aurobindos version?
Btw, there are some free digital versions available too:
http://www.yoganiketan.net/
As I remember, there is a version of Lahiri Mahasaya himself, and of Pranabananda aswell. But the site seems to be down at the moment. |
Edited by - Holy on Nov 06 2010 1:05:05 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 1:07:10 PM
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Hi Holy,
quote:
@Christi
how is Sri Aurobindos version?
Possibly the most amazing book I ever read. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 1:18:00 PM
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Hi Karl,
Just to mention, a lot of the things that you wrote about above which you refer to as being in the Gita are not in the Gita at all. They are only in Prabhupada's commentary, and don't relate to the text at all. The commentary about chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is not in the Gita, and likewise the things you mention about sex are not in the Gita either. They are just Prabhupada's own ideas.
The reason I would recommend getting a different translation, is not just because the commentary often goes off at incredible tangents, but also because Prabhupada uses a great number of secondary meanings when he is translating from Sanskrit, rather than the primary meanings, and the result is quite a distortion of the original.
Better to stick with a more conventional text based on primary translations of the Sanskrit.
The Gita has very little in it (if anything) which does not tie in with AYP when it is properly understood.
Christi |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2010 : 4:24:37 PM
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ditto what Christi said. Although I've appreciated many of Prabhupada's writings and translations, he always seems to have a very biased agenda. But like I said, I still appreciate his work. There are SO MANY translations of the Gita and you will find as you become more familiar with it that there are many translators who put there own take on things into the translations. However as you already know the Gita is both powerful and multifaceted. Each time you read it it will bring you something new.
Any yogic method if from the Gita or any other source is to be fitted to the individual, so good thing we have so many choices! Find what suits YOU. The main premise of the Gita imo is to take ACTION - this is what Krishna continually tells Arjuna, life/the body/the earth plane is a battle field and we must take action and not be ruled by out of control emotions.
Also, here is an example of the translation issue - one of my own gurus stated that the "tip" of the nose was actually meant to be the "root" of the nose. lol.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 03:36:47 AM
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Good stuff. Yes, I think some things I still take literally from the version I have, while others become my own interpretation of the Swami's interpretation
It's a bit like extracting the route from a satnav. When you first buy a satnav you tend to take it literally and folow every instruction which often leads to dead ends, after a while you begin to delete some bits as impractical or senseless when there is clear signposting /directions along the way. Each Satnav has it's own little peculiarities, once you learn them it's pretty much certain that you never get lost.
I'm going to ignore the transcript and only read the translation as it is less open to distortion. Would be worth reading others such as Yoganda. I am wary of reading a translation that follows the AYP way, because, in simple terms you begin to align everything from one point of view, where as I tend to think that a multifaceted point of view with extremes can be a more balanced approach.
I take the point on Sex and Hari Krisna. You are quite correct in that it is not part of the translation. I think I do understand the text though as meaning that if you surrender to God (or whatever)you lose your taste for material pleasures. Once duality ceases then that is how it must be regardless of the religopolitical spin. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 08:35:13 AM
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Hi Karl,
I would be interested to know if there is a place in the Gita where it says that you will lose your taste for material pleasures upon the realization of non-duality!
The thing about Krishna is, He was Mr. material pleasures! There wasn't a moment that he didn't enjoy, and there wasn't a molecule that he didn't take delight in. He spent his days playing music, dancing, singing, and having fun with several hundred Gopis (milkmaid girlfriends). Oh, and he was married as well... to Radha, I believe. And he lived in non-duality (advaita). But he was a clean living guy. He didn't drink, or smoke, or take drugs, or eat meat. He led a very satvic lifesyle.
Krishna wasn't against desire, and even said that he was that desire (kama) which leads to truth (dharma). I think that is in verse 11 chapter 7.
He was a fun-loving guy, and material pleasure was his thing. He also did celestial pleasure in a big way too, in a heavenly realm called Vrindavana.
Here is one of my favorite pictures of him with his wife:
http://tinyurl.com/3yrkwnb |
Edited by - Christi on Nov 07 2010 08:37:22 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 10:39:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Karl,
I would be interested to know if there is a place in the Gita where it says that you will lose your taste for material pleasures upon the realization of non-duality!
The thing about Krishna is, He was Mr. material pleasures! There wasn't a moment that he didn't enjoy, and there wasn't a molecule that he didn't take delight in. He spent his days playing music, dancing, singing, and having fun with several hundred Gopis (milkmaid girlfriends). Oh, and he was married as well... to Radha, I believe. And he lived in non-duality (advaita). But he was a clean living guy. He didn't drink, or smoke, or take drugs, or eat meat. He led a very satvic lifesyle.
Krishna wasn't against desire, and even said that he was that desire (kama) which leads to truth (dharma). I think that is in verse 11 chapter 7.
He was a fun-loving guy, and material pleasure was his thing. He also did celestial pleasure in a big way too, in a heavenly realm called Vrindavana.
Here is one of my favorite pictures of him with his wife:
http://tinyurl.com/3yrkwnb
Hi Christi,
food for thought.
I tend to think most of these characters (Krishna/Jesus) are just story book anyway, the people probably existed, but the events are distorted by thousands of years and many tellings. Most tended to deny they were anything special and I am inclined to believe them.
What we read in these ancient texts are echoed in poems, films, paintings, music, sculpture and books. There are no exactitudes, but you can imagine that if you were able to remain aloof on one level, while enjoying everything on another level, then right here and now would be that promised heaven.
In does not matter if these characters or events ever existed, or even if there is any truth in the texts what so ever, but somewhere there is a human story with a way of being that transcends the material world while accepting everything that it offers.
I cannot present an argument because I have no proof that any of this is possible, only a gut instinct that suggests that by working at another way of being will eventually prove to be more useful than doing nothing at all. Of course I might be totally mistaken but I can get over that
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2010 : 4:11:10 PM
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| Karl, the Gita IS about Yoga. And if you are only reading from Prabhupada translation he will not emphasize that. Good to check out other translations. Eknath Easwaran's translation is a good one to start with. Simple yet profound and not too long. Yogananda's is HUGE. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2010 : 01:27:13 AM
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Hi Karl,
quote:
In does not matter if these characters or events ever existed, or even if there is any truth in the texts what so ever, but somewhere there is a human story with a way of being that transcends the material world while accepting everything that it offers.
Yes, it doesn't matter at all if these people actually lived or not. All that matters is whether the story helps us on our path. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant.
All the best,
Christi
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2010 : 10:15:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LittleTurtle
Karl, the Gita IS about Yoga. And if you are only reading from Prabhupada translation he will not emphasize that. Good to check out other translations. Eknath Easwaran's translation is a good one to start with. Simple yet profound and not too long. Yogananda's is HUGE.
Yes, it states that clearly and so does Prabhupada. Where it differs is what exacly is meant by Yoga. Prab believes that Yoga is the end of attachment to the material world and not the practise.
He even goes as far as explaining that a philosophic understanding without any spiritual pracise will result in the same conclusion and that those who cannot comprehend this are without true understanding.
In the same way he also points out that there are numerous paths for those who haven't the potential for full realisation because everyone has to start out somewhere and taking any action (even what might to some appear pointless) along the path is far better than ignoring it all together.
Bit like training the body. Make a start by thinking how to make the body fitter, abstain from eating certain foods, work on the mental attitude, run 3 times a week. All will make a start on the path and so all are valid. |
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The Gita and differences in the AYP approach?
