|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 03 2005 : 3:50:35 PM
|
it's a pretty bad comment on Luther because it is a well constructed document meant to incite hate for Jews among Christians. basically it says they're wrong and we're right. They are not God's people; they are of the devil etc. etc. luther's not all bad, but when people turn their focus on instigating hate, especially when they are already famous, it's not good.
This is why I don't like partisanism in the USA today. Certain people have gained notoriety, and have written documents and made movies just for the purpose of fueling the fires of hate. They are full of half truths, lies, and things taken out of context, etc., but people believe the whole thing. They don't want to check the facts; they like to hate. hitler did the same thing.
So I think this is one of the worst things a person can spend their energy doing. The best religious leaders throughout time were devoted to exactly the opposite. For instance Yogananda's writings. he makes hundreds of comparisons of the Bible to hindu writings. upon reading them you can gain a greater understanding of the bible, or if you're like me, you get this underlying feeling that the bible is F*&@ed up. But never once does Yogananda say anything of the sort. He always praises the bible for saying these truths that no normal reader could ever get out of it.
you can read "on Jews and Their Lies" here:
http://www.humanitas-international....her-jews.htm
So I think the most valuable spiritual leaders never malign other people. There are ways of saying what is good and bad for our spiritual development without condemning and alienating people.
So on the subject of "where are the enlightened?", we have to look at such subject matter and decide if it may be valuable to our personal journey,
and if so how can we test it. I think one rule-of-thumb is anything that turns people against each other is probably of no use to us personally.
It's an example of what an ego can do to an otherwise good person.
Etherfish |
 |
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2005 : 4:30:59 PM
|
FWIW, Martin Luther wan't only anti-Semitic. He was equally venomous toward the papists, even insinuating that Pope Julius II was the antichrist. And this he did in Rome.
m |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2005 : 07:24:59 AM
|
Some of his statements against the Vatican and Judaism were correct.
I've seen an argument in his defense saying that he was not anti-semetic, but anti-Judaism. but that's pretty weak. And I think this applies to the topic of "where are the enlightened?" It is irrelevent whether the fires of hate are fed with true statements or with lies. Instigating hate between people is not an enlightened act. And even though "enlightenment" may be a personal goal for us, i doubt if any level of inner achievment will guarantee that we'll never make mistakes. It is how we interact with other people that is important to the world, not how enlightened we are.
Etherfish |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2005 : 5:22:56 PM
|
quote:
And even though "enlightenment" may be a personal goal for us, i doubt if any level of inner achievment will guarantee that we'll never make mistakes. It is how we interact with other people that is important to the world, not how enlightened we are.
Great point Ether and easy to forget! |
|
|
|
Ute
39 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2005 : 9:51:36 PM
|
David Obsidian wrote: Should we be in the business at all of thinking that various spiritual teachers are the greatest beings that ever lived, or is that just all unhealthy nonsense?
I personally feel that we don’t do these people any favor by putting them on pedestals. The field is littered with fallen gurus that were seduced by power given to them by followers.
The bhakti path unfolds for us over time, even life times, and it is actually the love of God what it is all about. And God not as some external being, but the divinity in all creation, including ourselves. That is a big concept for most of us to comprehend. When we are deeply identified with our small self, we cannot see our own divinity. When we encounter the guru something energetic happens, He/she reflects back to us our own divinity. At first we may not recognize what he is showing us and we just recognize his divinity and open our heart to it. That heart opening expands to, little by little, include more and more of creation, and eventually our Selves. My teacher used to say that he is just standing in for our Inner Guru until we can see it ourselves. I think more and more people do recognize that the Guru is in each of us and the “horizontal sharing” is healthier for all participants.
Blessings,
Ute
|
|
|
|
Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2005 : 2:46:17 PM
|
Another one from Swami Sivananda:
Competent disciples are never in want of a competent guru. Realised souls are not rare, but ordinary ignorant persons cannot easily recognise them. Only a few persons, who are pure and embodiments of all virtuous qualities, can understand realised souls, and they only will be benefitted in their company. The number of realised souls may be less in the present age, when compared with the satya yuga (the golden age), but they are always present to help the aspirants. They are always searching for the proper Adhikaris (qualified aspirants). Let each man take the path according to his capacity, understanding and temperament. His true guru will meet him along that path.
Do not dig shallow pits here and there for obtaining water, for the pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place and centralise all your efforts here. You will find good water that can supply you throughout the year. Even so, try to imbibe thoroughly the spiritual teachings from one preceptor alone. Drink deeply from one man. Sit at his feet for some years. It is useless to wander from one man to another, out of curiosity, losing faith in a short time. Do not have the ever-changing mind of a prostitute, but follow the spiritual instructions of one man only. If you go to several people and follow the instructions of many persons, you will become quite bewildered and be in a dilemma.
From one doctor you get a prescription. From two doctors you get consultation. From three doctors you get your own cremation. Even so, if you have many gurus, you will be bewildered and be at a loss to know what to do. One guru will tell you: "Do this." Another will tell you: "Do that." A third guru will tell you: "Do the other." You will be quite puzzled. Stick to one guru and follow his instructions.
Listen to all, but follow one. Respect all, but adore one. Gather knowledge from all, but adopt the teachings of one master. Then you will have rapid spiritual progress.
The guru and the scriptures can show you the path and remove your doubts. Direct experience or direct intuitive knowledge is left for your own experience. A hungry man will have to eat for himself. No doubt, the guru's blessing can do everything. But how can one have his blessings? By pleasing the guru. A guru can be pleased with his disciple only if the latter carries out his spiritual instructions implicitly. Therefore, follow the instructions of the guru carefully. Only then will you deserve his blessings which can do everything.
|
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 14 2005 : 9:29:24 PM
|
From Sivananda-ji
Do not dig shallow pits here and there for obtaining water, for the pits will dry up soon. Dig a very deep pit in one place and centralize all your efforts here.
Hello Lili (et.al),
Thank you for this post. Sivananda-ji is part of my library and has done some of his best work on the Upanishads and Brahma sutras.
His insights clearly point to his level of consciousness.
His quote on digging wells is really applicable to the use of mantras. That is , stick with one, and dig deep till you hit gold and/or water. There is a wonderful technique that says you start with the bija mantra, then over time the mantra is added to, yet one keeps the initial bija at its root or the creative impulse ( deva) being addressed.
Mantras are known by their bija mantra and finally by the number syllables or phonemes that become the mantra-sutra. Typical ones are 8 syllables, 12 syllables, 16 syllables, etc...the gayatri mantra [see other sections Greatest Vibration Known to Mankind that takes this deeper if there is interest] is 8 syllables per line x 3 lines or 24 syllables all told. All are designed to stimulate or energize particular parts or multiple parts of ones being, or the environment. All emanate from Pranava or Om.
What a great science, eh?
We can discuss more as interest arises.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
|
|
|
|
stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 07:18:07 AM
|
| I'm not sure if this thread is still going on or not, but about a year ago I had a chance to see the Dalia Lama speak. I don't know if he is enlightened or not, but I really could feel a lot of kindness and joy from him. The speech he gave was pretty basic and down to earth, but he seemed very wise as well. I'm not sure where he'd fall on the enlightenment scale (assuming there is one), but I have a great sense of warmth and happiness everytime I think about seeing him speak. He seems to practice what he preaches. |
Edited by - stevenbhow on Nov 17 2008 07:28:54 AM |
|
|
|
greenyogi
14 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2009 : 03:28:41 AM
|
Not sure this thread still got watch for or not
We are in the cycle of the night in the cosmic clock so most of the highly evolved enlightened being are in the state of un-manifestation.
In a sense most people come to this planet are like elementary school students in the cosmic sense. |
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2009 : 3:33:16 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by greenyogi
Not sure this thread still got watch for or not
We are in the cycle of the night in the cosmic clock so most of the highly evolved enlightened being are in the state of un-manifestation.
In a sense most people come to this planet are like elementary school students in the cosmic sense.
yeah, and how do you prove that is true? |
|
|
|
JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 04:28:45 AM
|
HOw do you know? You'll never know. Unless maybe if you can read auras.
quote:
Originally posted by Frank-in-SanDiego
Hari Om
~~~~~
Hello Folks,
Did ya ever wonder/ponder why are there not more Enlighted folks walk'n round? In this age of Kali Yuga, enlightenment is not top of mind for the general house holder - yet with the number of people on the planet (Bhu Loka) ya'd think there would be just a few more Jivamuki's(enlighted while living).
Some Facts: How many new beings arrive daily? (See the chart below from the Census Bureau)
Births per day = 356,201
Deaths per day = 153,781
Net new humans = 202,419 (or 141 per minute)
Every day we get ~ 200,000 new or "recycled" :>) beings joining tera firma. that's 73 million new Jiva's every year.
Even if .000001 ( 1 in a million) are born per year that wold give us roughly 73 to 75 enlightened beings per year.
Now, I've been on this path for a bit, so I would expect about 3,600 to 3,700 enlighened folks while I been been occupying this planet.
I have run into 1 (but read of many) that I have the highest confidence he lives Brahmavidya. Where are the others? I am sure India has great souls , the Shankaarachara's etc.
It just seems there should be more.
MMY (Maharshi Mehesh Yogi)suggests if just 1% take to this mokhsa we will have Heaven on Earth. That would be ~6.5 million jiva's making it to enlightenment. Seems like we have a manufacturing problem!
In the Gita Sri Krsna clearly points out there a "few" that take this path and reach Him.
patu sarvaih svarupair nah sada sarvatra sama-gah
" May the Lord, who is all-pervasive in His various forms, protect us everywhere."
Just a thought.
Frank in San Diego
|
|
|
|
JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 04:48:37 AM
|
>who has achieved these things already<
is 'achievement' the correct word? does one 'achieve' enlightenment?
>we can learn a great deal from those ahead of us on the path<
this assumes that we are listening, that our attention is focussed and our minds at the time are prepared for his/her words. me, my mind, I find it wandering in and out of attention.
just some stuff my mind comes up with as I read these words, no harm meant.
Jon
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Hi Lili,
Great points, I agree with you, achieving more understanding and feedom for ourselves is far more important than being in the presence of a person who has achieved these things already. I do however think that we can learn a great deal from those ahead of us on the path and that it can accelerate our own progress too.
When I wrote, "I would love nothing more", I was a little over-exuberant in my choice of words (which I am often prone to do!) .
I think it would be inspiring for me to meet someone like this mostly because I would love to hear what the view is like from where they are standing!
all the best,
Andrew
|
|
|
|
jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 12:35:41 PM
|
Maybe whethere there are Enlightened isn't the question but 'more Enlightened than I am' is. In that regard there are many of them.
Love,
Jill |
|
|
|
Tam Phap
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2009 : 10:50:36 AM
|
"Love, love, love"... Lama Yeshe (e.g. keep it simple)
|
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 9:42:51 PM
|
when you smile, it is there, when you fee love, it is there, when you help someone, it is there. when you are thankful, it is there. when you are present, it is there, when you cry with someone, it is there. when you celebrate your food, it is there, when you sing, it is there, when you dance, it is there, when you look at a bird in awe, it is there, when you see the miracle of a flower, it is there, when you see a child smile, it is there, when you care more for someone else and forget yourself, it is there. WHen you fully appreciate suffering, it is there
thanks for asking me
brother Neil
|
|
|
|
krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2009 : 07:16:21 AM
|
Hi Frank-in-SanDiego,
I liked your post about Mantras. Are you knowledgeable in Mantra Japa Yoga?
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on May 31 2009 11:14:41 PM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Where's the Enlightened?
