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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 24 2009 : 10:56:22 PM
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some people say you create your reality, how you percieve the world is how it is. This is something that can leave the mind going 
so if someone percieves sucking on a tailpipe of a car can be good for their health, this makes it so? If someone percieves that eating pesticides is good for them, this makes it so? If I create my reality, then without I, does your reality exist?
thanks
Brother Neil
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 02:18:54 AM
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The strength of the mind is increadible!
I don't know where the limits are, if doing what you are suggesting is possible in the long run without getting bodily problems, but I do know it works in many other ways.
For example, in hypnosis you can have people getting burn blisters from saying "I'm gonna put a glowing cigarett towards your skin" and then just put a pen on the skin, and *poof* a blister will show up immediately. You can in the same way provoce/create diabetes, allergy and pain in hypnosis just by suggesting that to the subconscious mind. Outside of hypnosis it all works the same way but not so explicit and fast. I know people who can do the opposite - touch and move hot stones lying in a fire without getting burn bisters... cause they've realized heat is an illusion...
When learning to control or manipulate the underlying creative force, well, then we may start creating our world as we want it (as shown in the film The Secret) (symbolically equals reading the code in Matrix). All this is happening in the mind world, though... It's all about I, me and mine, it's my separated body-mind that everything will happen to.
quote:
If I create my reality, then without I, does your reality exist?
I have come to notice just these last days, that if I have a thought about "me" (for example "Gosh, I had a really tough day at work today"), and I really, honestly go for a search for that I... who is it that had a bad day?... the whole setting changes... I look and look inwards, and I try to find the one that the thoughts are "attached" to - to whom do they belong?... then I don't find any owner... There's nobody there claiming "That's MY thought"! The thought stands alone - it's autonomous! Then a giggle bubbles up, and when thinking back of the day, I just see a circus, where this body-mind has done the best it can to create order in chaos... and I see how irritation and tension has come from thoughts "I have to fix this, I have to fix this" and then the time has not allowed anything to be fixed... and when I ask "to whom do the thought 'I have to fix this' belong?" and it's just silent... and empty, and spaceous... that's when I realize "my world" out there, is exactly what I create it to be as long as I believe in the thoughts that come, and I believe I own them, that they are "mine". Then the workdays are really tough! As soon as the believer is realized not to be found anywhere, that thoughts have a life of their own and just come to visit the field of awareness... there is giggling, joy, and pleasant energyrushes through the body, and tension goes away with a sweet tingeling in the area... Those days when I manage to stay in that realization the whole day is rather wonderful, no matter how chaotic it is. The "outside reality" may not has changed a bit, but my perception of it has changed radically.
Chaos can happen at work with me in tension and believing "I have to fix this". Chaos can happen at work without any self-considerate "me" being there, and this body will do it's best to comfort others in the chaos with a smile on her face. It's my choice to start questioning the "owner"...
Now, then the magic comes in... when I relax into being without self-concern... then the "reality" outside of me often changes as well... and that's when this mysterious creative force is so beautiful... when I have changed my inner reality, the outer reality follows along the line! Students relax, drop their aggression, sudden unexpected solutions show up to great problems, and smiles are more frequent...
I then realize... if the creative force working through this body-mind can alter the situation so fast to the better when I relax and remember to inquire the "owner" of thoughts... then... sh*t pommes frites... it must have been the same body-mind that created the negative chaos from the start by creating tension when believing the thought "I must fix this"... Hmmm... 
So if "I" disappear within this body-mind vehicle... does "your" reality exist? Well, I don't know...  it must be up to each and everyone's internal perception of reality, no? The others at work might not have noticed the change at all? Who knows? I could only tell by the feed-back I get by students and colleagues, and I do think they notice the difference, just as I do. We're all more joyful and less negative those days...
It is starting to give me a sense of responsibility... if I can manifest negativity or relaxation that fast... then it's really important to start living what Gandhi said:
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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Edited by - emc on Apr 25 2009 03:23:32 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 09:53:39 AM
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Well stated, EMC!
Reality is ultimately about interaction between people. If your beliefs are strong enough, you can override the general agreements we have about what is dangerous and what is not.
The more you break these agreements on your own, the more you alienate yourself from others.
However, a person who only breaks them for purposes of helping others becomes like Jesus. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 11:52:56 AM
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I get this question a lot when doing NLP seminars. Always working on the theory that you do create your own reality is a more helpful response than believing that you are controlled. It's more of an empowerment than anything else because you get better results if you believe that you can.
This is termed Cause vs Effect. If you are in Effect, it simply means you believe you have no options, everything is beyond your control-even your own actions. If you are at cause then you are creating your own way. So, if you have an car accident it is often interesting to ask why you chose to have it ? Most people will instantly recoil at that thought, but a little more questioning will often reveal that they did create the accident.
I worked with a lady who re-lived an accident from many years before. She nearly died and took years to even walk properly again. She tried analysing what she could have done better, where the fault lay. On asking that simple question she really let fly, once settled back down I asked her to remember the choices she made prior to driving the car. She started to smirk and then laughed ! She remembered alright.......It had been a cold day and she had been with her boyfriend, they were driving seperate cars and her boyfriend had defrosted his car and set off ahead of her. She was annoyed at his lack of care in not waiting until she defrosted hers. She wanted to teach him a lesson and the result was an accident that was far more horrific than she had expected. End result was that the flashbacks and nightmares vanished.
This is the same general principle as projection/perception. if you believe someone or something can harm you, then it will. if you believe that people are generally friendly then automatically you find that you are.
My wife once asked me if it was possible to believe that you could fly and simply jump off a bridge. The reality is of course that for a brief period of time you will fly.......before finding out that some things a little more physically real. You could believe that you would survive a fall and might find that you got away with less injury than normally expected (the so called lucky escape) simply by believing you will survive. Evil Kenievel managed this for many years. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 1:18:13 PM
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Thanks Ether.
Karl, thank you for giving me a reason to post this video... It's beginning to get possible to simply jump and then fly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cNrCPzdmy8
I didn't know this was happening, but extreme sports are getting more and more extreme! Enjoy! Have these guys overcome the fear of death or not????  |
Edited by - emc on Apr 25 2009 1:29:53 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 2:27:26 PM
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so is the hungry homeless guy on the street corner hungry?
is the preservation of sexual energy really necessarry?
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Edited by - brother neil on Apr 25 2009 2:30:28 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 2:41:20 PM
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| I don't follow your reasoning now, brother neil. Could you develop your chain of thoughts a bit? How are you feeling by the way? Do I sense some lack of motivation in your posts or is it something else that makes you ask? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 3:39:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
so is the hungry homeless guy on the street corner hungry?
is the preservation of sexual energy really necessarry?
There is no absolute reality beyond human belief systems except for Karma.
The homeless guy is hungry because he believes he is homeless and hungry. He doesn't change because he believes it is difficult or impossible to change.
What is really difficult is not changing his reality, but changing his beliefs. It really doesn't matter though because he is stuck either way.
The preservation of sexual energy is necessary because it belongs to the belief system of yoga. Yoga is the best system we have at this time to achieve enlightenment.
It is very difficult for people to believe in instant rewards. Once in a while it happens, but usually it is taken away shortly because of the inability to retain the belief that it is OK, or due to karma.
So you can spend your life learning to change your beliefs through NLP, psyche K, and other systems, which are not as widely tested and believed as Yoga is. Or, you can just practice Yoga which is a stable public belief system.
If you work on changing your belief systems in regards to Yoga, you can make the same milestones as by practicing yoga, but you are liable to run into a lot of setbacks and backsliding. I have done similar things.
Beliefs about the enlightenment path are in a chain, as are most beliefs. If you change one, it alters the chain in unforseeable ways. So when you start changing beliefs, it is not a quick and easy process.
It is actually easier to just practice Yoga!
The more a public belief system is accepted by the masses, the easier it becomes to adopt and act within that belief system.
Changing your beliefs unilaterally alienates you.
We are all in this together! |
Edited by - Etherfish on Apr 25 2009 3:49:29 PM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 4:50:50 PM
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Hi all,
Thanks for a very interesting thread.
My private theory (and here surrounded by Cambridge University scientists and mathematicians, it is a very private theory, or the Dawkins Police will be round) is that there is no difference between science and magic.
Why does the science, which we are told is 'objectively true' keep changing? If we look at maths or physics or chemistry, for example, I would say that the 'proofs' of 'discoveries' are simply the intellectual 'pathway' to faith (ie a sure belief in something being true or possible). And when we believe it, thus it becomes, a part of our reality.
I believe that this point of view is supported by quantum theory, whether one adopts the 'many worlds' hypothesis or the probability hypothesis.
I recently saw a report of a physicist proposing that humanity could change its course from disasters by simply 'reprogramming' its take on history, on the pathway to this moment, based on 'many worlds' quantum maths.
So maybe I am not alone as a theolog here in uber-science-land in thinking this way.
I read today, for example, in The New Scientist (like Scientific American): "If you were to list the imperfections of the standard model - physicist's remarkable description of matter and its interactions - pretty high up would have to be its prediction that we don't exist." (ie because matter and antimatter should by all accounts cancel out). So, here the maths tells us exactly what the great traditions, and our own experience of ourselves in meditation/yoga tells us, ie that we seem to exist (duality) at the same time as we don't (non-duality).
I could go on, but others have said all this better than I can.
I look forward to the day when the Vatican has to readjust its heresy list yet again, and to say 'OK then, so Galileo was right as we have belatedly acknowledged, but now we find that so were the guys who said Galileo was wrong. It just depends on how you look at it!'
Maybe the paradigm shift that brings religion and science together is about to happen, in a unified (and infinitely diverse!) view of Reality.
Scientists keep writing books that say non-scientists' take on quantum theory is bunk, but every time I read any of it, I think "that sounds to me just like what I know from meditation, or what I have understood from eastern traditions going back thousands of years".
Hmmmm. "Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 7:25:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Thanks Ether.
Karl, thank you for giving me a reason to post this video... It's beginning to get possible to simply jump and then fly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cNrCPzdmy8
I didn't know this was happening, but extreme sports are getting more and more extreme! Enjoy! Have these guys overcome the fear of death or not????
Unbelievably talented. I learned to paraglide last year and you learn to use ridges where thermals lie. These guys seem to be using the thermals as well as updraughts in the valley that roll up the sheer faces......get caught out and you smack into a sheer cliff face doing 150mph.....ouch !
Going over those switchbacks in the roads  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 9:08:53 PM
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Yes, it's very dangerous. I did skydiving for a while, then decided it was too dangerous (and expensive!) They tell you how safe it is, but after a few thousand jumps, experts get killed by accident.
A few months after I quit, the owner of the facility got killed - after 5000 jumps, there was a malfunction. I'm glad I did it a few times though. It helped with my fear of heights. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 11:51:12 PM
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Yeah ,Alot of these religious base-jumpers.-their number comes up eventually.Or so i've heard,the stats. You need so many skydives under your belt to base-jump legally and by then the odds are starting to stack up against you. Turbulence near the ground,forget to pull your chute,badly packed,,poor calculation or hit a tree or rock (or something) on the way down. Eventually your number will come up, going by the stats,and agoing by the fact all the hard=core ones already know a couple of mates now gone. Same with rock-climbers and mountaineers. Guess they're adrenaline junkies- the thril must be quite intoxicating and addictive.
Interesting thread- but i apologise and sorry if i've gone Off-topic.
Post-Quantum physics ,or whatever, is arriving at the conclusion that reality only exists if there is someone,conscious being/scientist to measure it,evaluate ,and from a particular vantage point,location in the universe etc.Otherwise it makes no sense, is meaningless or irrelevant.yes,this does sound similliar to discoveries made by yogi's |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 26 2009 12:51:49 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 12:20:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
so is the hungry homeless guy on the street corner hungry?
some of them perhaps are.
though many are working hustlers, just trying to make an honest living.like the wall street trader, some of them prey on people's gullibility and good fortune. i can be a very siphisticated act where they make themselves look poorer and more downtrodden- indeed soome earn a great del of money to finance v. expensive drug habit. but they can depend on people to give hem money. at least in the uk, that is the case. their really is not much reeason for starvation living in UK ,unless you were sick or insane, which is quite probable in those cases.
but alot of these ' street beggars' are really sophisticated hustlers preyiing on folk that probably admittedly have more money than they need. that is not to say these folk don't deserve your money( i sometimes give as i do empathise), because feeding a drug habit is a full-time job. it's just the state does'nt provide for it ,as i believe it should. their doctors should be supplying them their heroin or whatever, instead of them begging and them goin to buy off gangsters or other black-market entrepreneurs who tend to have less scruples.
obviously they don't choose to live that way,even if you might want to argue on some level that some of their beliefs might contribute to them living that way. we#rre all pretty much the same, though i completely get what you're saying on a deeper level. It's just that accessing that deeper level is not always so straightforward. hence why yogani offers all this generous instruction etc, and we're not all sitting (cross=legged or otherwise) in the street making posts here with our wi-fi laptop whilst hustling simultaneously. although i guess we could be, brother neil |
Edited by - Akasha on Apr 26 2009 12:50:44 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 2:04:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
I don't follow your reasoning now, brother neil. Could you develop your chain of thoughts a bit? How are you feeling by the way? Do I sense some lack of motivation in your posts or is it something else that makes you ask?
rather then trying to figure this and other things out. I am just going to let it go and stick with the practices and allow the understandings to evolve on their own. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2009 : 2:23:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
some people say you create your reality, how you percieve the world is how it is. This is something that can leave the mind going
so if someone percieves sucking on a tailpipe of a car can be good for their health, this makes it so? If someone percieves that eating pesticides is good for them, this makes it so? If I create my reality, then without I, does your reality exist?
thanks
Brother Neil
I'll take a shot at your interesting question Brother Neil
This is absolute reality. There is no other reality other than the absolute, or God, which is also this manifestation. Sucking a tailpipe is also a manifestation of absolute reality. Anything and everything, including the thoughts that arise in this are the absolute reality. Do we create reality? Well, do "we" in a separate, individual sense create anything? Do we manifest ourselves? In the absolute sense I guess we can say that we do. As seeming individuals I don't think anything can be done. We think we are doing things, but it is only God in and as everything happening. As individuals we don't create anything, we are a part of this expression of the absolute. This doesn't devalue us as individual appearances of the absolute, it just shows us that we are blessings of God. This ever new moment of experience is a blessing of being from God. The only thing we can "do" is recognize that we are expressions of the absolute. The recognition is the unhindered flow of love. This recognition isn't so much something that we "do", it is grace.
This is my view for what it's worth. |
Edited by - Balance on Apr 26 2009 2:29:13 PM |
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spinal_tap
Indonesia
40 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2009 : 2:37:28 PM
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| I agree with you brother neil, So without you, your reality might exist still if I or someone else chose to accept your reality(perception) |
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