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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 6:59:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
But what is fair to charge for your services so you can make a living? That is where the scammers take advantage of the ignorant. In the US, it is normal for anyone to charge $20 to $75 an hour for many different services where it is one-on-one, then professionals like doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists charge much more. But in India that is a lot of money.
And if you are able to somehow work with several people at once, the charges should be lowered. So $500. a day is quite high when a lot of people attend, even if it includes hotel and food. Of course a high class hotel would cost more than that, but I doubt if that is what you get.
When I am on the road as an electrician, I can usually survive on $100 a day easily, eating in restaurants not fast food, and staying in a low priced but clean motel. A few cities have notoriously higher prices within the city itself.
By the way, Yogani doesn't make a living from AYP. He puts all of his time into it, and there is often barely enough to cover expenses.
All things must be reasonable. I'm just speculating here but I'm Yogani would would not mind if there were more money available than just to cover expenses. In time, I'm sure he will. His material is quite good. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 7:05:09 PM
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Yes but he doesn't DEMAND more to receive his services. The sign of a man with honorable intentions.
I know lots of people who work a regular job to make a living, then pursue their passion on their own time, helping people at low cost because they want that knowledge to be given to as many as possible. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 7:08:06 PM
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Dave wrotequote:
Sounds like robbery and crap, I don't know about commercial.ANYONE on here can teach another the technique of mantra meditation in 10 minutes.
L&L
Dave
Yes, but you may notice hardly anyone learns it in ten minutes.
There are usually 20 questions over the next few weeks!
That's why Yogani has written at length on the seemingly simple subject. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 11:25:49 PM
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| Of course he is demanding money. If you want his book, he demands money. If you go to a spiritual teacher and what his or her time, he or she demands money. If you don't want it, don't buy it. LOL... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 12:13:00 AM
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What i mean is Yogani is not demanding a lot of money to learn his system. If you are poor, you can get everything you need here for free.
It's nice to have books, and they give a little more info, but it is not necessary.
The scammer gurus say there is only one way, and it costs a lot. |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 02:15:51 AM
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| I agree with Etherfish. If a spiritual Guru, who lays claim to having renounced all worldy things and who preaches the same to his "disciples", charges a large fee, like the examples I gave from India, then that "Guru" to me is straightaway avoidable.Yogani, and my Shaktipat Guru, are outstanding examples of real Gurus. I am sure Yogani has a family to support,and has to eat to live. I am sure the earnings from book sales etc. don't bring him huge riches ! I am also sure Yogani spends a great deal of time and energy, selflessly doing what he is doing for humanity. All these other Gurus stand in sharp contrast. I am not very aware of things in the US, but in India, for a Guru to charge 20 or 30 USD per hour for meditation that can be taught in 10 mins., seems grossly excessive. You also have YSS that runs a huge organisation world-wide, with a lot of overhead expenses,I am sure. Yet, look at what terrific service they are rendering, at little or no cost ? |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Apr 15 2009 01:48:26 AM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 11:27:13 AM
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| There are many different way and many different teachers. I don't require any of them to renounce the world and live poor. Requiring that of a spiritual teacher is attachment and judgmental. As yogis we have to live without hope, fear or judgment. All these are attachment. You think $20 is excessive. I think $200 is underpriced. If there is a great master with proven methods and accomplished students, I may want to give $2000 for ten minutes. I know many teachers who advertise that their services come at a price, but then when you get there they never ask and teach you anyway. The price is a way of weeding out the people who are not serious, and not willing to invest themselves. Any good teacher will meet poor students who will show persistence and humility. After some time, even if the student is initially rejected, with persistence, that student will become a beloved disciple. All the stories of all the great yogis are like this. The yogis I don't trust are those who claim to have taught themselves. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Apr 14 2009 11:32:46 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 12:05:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
The yogis I don't trust are those who claim to have taught themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
As yogis we have to live without hope, fear or judgment. All these are attachment.
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 12:26:56 PM
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| Any service of the kind we are discussing must be accessible to the masses. In India, the average monthly earning for a person working for a living will not be over 100/-USD. Sure, the rich can afford even 200,000/- USD if he perceives value, but spiritual progress cannot be the prerogative of the rich alone.More than 60% of the world's population come under the "not rich" or barely-able-to-meet-ends category who just can't afford 200, or 2000, or 200,000 USD, whatever value they may be getting. Any they should not be denied what God himself has meant for everyone to have. Otherwise, when will "the poor and meek ever inherit heaven" ? |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 3:07:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Any service of the kind we are discussing must be accessible to the masses. In India, the average monthly earning for a person working for a living will not be over 100/-USD. Sure, the rich can afford even 200,000/- USD if he perceives value, but spiritual progress cannot be the prerogative of the rich alone.More than 60% of the world's population come under the "not rich" or barely-able-to-meet-ends category who just can't afford 200, or 2000, or 200,000 USD, whatever value they may be getting. Any they should not be denied what God himself has meant for everyone to have. Otherwise, when will "the poor and meek ever inherit heaven" ?
The great teachers have great compassion, like Gandhiji, whom I consider a bodhisattva. He said "Truth is God." In fact, all the great teachings and best methods are all around. Baba Ramdev has many free yoga classes in India. If you are looking for a great master in India, then you should become familiar with the lineages and learn who holds the lineage in the present time. There are many tantrika masters around India, but you have to seek them out, and they don't advertise. Good luck on your path. Remember to make a strong wish to be of great service to all living beings. Then, your karma will take you to the true master. Keep your mind focused on those beings who have the qualities of a spiritual master, kindness, generosity, signs of accomplishment, masters of samadhi, etc. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 3:55:00 PM
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I think it is quite possible to be enlightened and a great teacher all on your own. To be "self taught". I got the impression that most of yogani's learning is from books. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong.
When you find inner silence, your inner guru will theach you from a multitude of sources, many of them not teachers at all. And you may or may not be directed to someone who is a spiritual teacher from a lineage.
Some great saints have reached God and enlightenment from sustained devotion alone, and come from many different traditions, western religions with no lineage, etc. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 4:12:19 PM
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Hi all.
The path always come to me.But we are all in the path really.All we have our own place in the universe.The path is all around us.
Like walking along a road,i think the next step comes to you.
Spiritual techings are objects,and we are the subject.It doesnt mean the spiritual teachings are not important.No.They are powerfull tools that accelerate the process in wich we are all involved.
The path is in you.This is a very important point.When we identify the objects as the subject,then there is a problem,i think.
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Edited by - miguel on Apr 14 2009 4:55:25 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 5:57:57 PM
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quote:
Any service of the kind we are discussing must be accessible to the masses.
Why? Who says so? Generally the masses (even in India)are not ready for the path and I speak from my own observations in India.
Etherfish, please name some of these self enlightened saints, I think there are very few.Yogani's knowledge is not solely from books.It is also from experience and practice of systems.
quote:
Yes, but you may notice hardly anyone learns it in ten minutes.
There are usually 20 questions over the next few weeks!
That's why Yogani has written at length on the seemingly simple subject.
Sorry I apologise I meant 15 mins. I forgot about the 5 min teabreak in between.
Well my sadguru does not set a fee but asks for what one can afford for visitors. As Konchok says genuine seekers will get darshan but those looking for material gain will not.I believe he does charge local Indians 500 rupees for shaktipat which I believe is less than £4 sterling.
L&L
Dave
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 7:21:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Yogani, and my Shaktipat Guru, are outstanding examples of real Gurus.
Hi:
There seems to have been a persistent attempt recently by various Forum Members to cast Yogani in some formal role of GURU. First a PEDESTAL was produced few weeks ago, and then some GURUSHIP was intimated shortly thereafter. Then now a demand is being made to exhibit some lineage to support the proposed guru status.
When we each entered the AYP site the welcome note at the door clearly stated Yogani's position on these issues.
These are excerpts from the AYP Home Page:
More about the author: Yogani is a long time practitioner of advanced yoga practices who wants to leave some useful information behind. Over the years, he has crossed the lines between many traditions, developing an effective integration of methods. It is a flexible, scientific approach rather than a rigid, arbitrary one. It is open to public scrutiny, as all spiritual knowledge should be nowadays. He has no desire for guru status - only to have the joy of making a small contribution to helping the disciplines of spiritual practice become open to everyone. He wishes to remain anonymous, preserving a quiet life in practices. AYP is not about the author. It is about all who long for knowledge.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 11:31:30 PM
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riptiz wrote:
"Etherfish, please name some of these self enlightened saints, I think there are very few.Yogani's knowledge is not solely from books.It is also from experience and practice of systems."
Yes i meant that I didn't think Yogani's knowledge came from a lineage per se.
Sorry I don't have the names at this time. I remember reading about the subject more than once, and it must have been in my lessons from Yogananda because he liked to call enlightened people saints. But it would take quite a bit of research for me to retrace the source, and I am too busy for that. |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 02:05:45 AM
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When I said Guru of Yogani, I meant it as a form of the enormous respect I held him in for his teaching and self-less contribution to mankind.
I have been living in India (in different parts) for over 6 decades. I have found very highly spiritually inclined people in the poorest classes. I shall not presume that no people among the masses are "ready" for the path. I can't make that judgement. Maybe some "realised" people are able to make their own observations that people among the masses are "not ready". I myself come from a very poor background family, but my mother, who was very pious, had her Kundali awakened, just through japa and worship. So, I myself am one from India's masses.
As for enlightened people, I am discovering only now that there have been numerousover the decades and centuries! Only they don't show off. Moreover we are all so busy with our material lives, that we are blind to them.
Krish |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 07:51:15 AM
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Thank you Krish.
Finally somebody who is slightly older than me!
Yes, i was just going to say something quite similar, but you have actually seen it with your own eyes.
I was going to say it doesn't make the news when people become enlightened. And personally I believe that an enlightened person does not necessarily give up their material life, and devote all their time to helping people spiritually.
If an enlightened person were to believe wholeheartedly that each person will find the path to enlightenment best through their inner guru, then it is quite possible that the enlightened person may choose to carry on their life as they always have, except their focus may be on helping people wherever the universe presents the opportunity.
So to an outside observer, there would be nothing unusual about this person, except that they may seem generous with their time.
The reason it may seem rare for people to become enlightened without a formal lineage is that lineages make a public effort to enlighten people. People outside lineages just live their lives as an enlightened person and don't notify the media. |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 08:13:42 AM
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| Just curious, for those of you that had their Kundalini Awakened by a Guru, is it different for someone like me who had a spontaneous Kundalini Awakening? I've read about and met a few Gurus, but with the exception of the Dalia Lama, I don't seem to have a very strong interest in any of them. I enjoy reading their books and watching their videos, but I don't feel any real devotion. Maybe I just have found the right one yet. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 10:08:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by stevenbhow
Just curious, for those of you that had their Kundalini Awakened by a Guru, is it different for someone like me who had a spontaneous Kundalini Awakening? I've read about and met a few Gurus, but with the exception of the Dalia Lama, I don't seem to have a very strong interest in any of them. I enjoy reading their books and watching their videos, but I don't feel any real devotion. Maybe I just have found the right one yet.
Guru and shaktipat are not always together. Dalai Lama does not do shaktipat. Shaktipat is special tradition of the Kashmir Shaivism. In the tantric buddhist lineages, guru introduces you to the nature of your mind. It is not shaktipat. Kundalini is not the ultimate state, but like jet fuel for your vehicle to arrive at the ultimate state. The kundalini is practiced with tummo. But tummo is no required. Recognizing your mind's nature automatically gathers the winds in the central channel.
Of course, past life karma will draw you to meet your heart guru. You can make a strong wish to meet your heart guru, if that is what you want. It is like anything else, you will know your guru when you meet him or her. There will be no question, because he or she will dispel your doubts, answer your questions and relieve you of your worries about the path. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 10:31:23 AM
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To be clear. Yogani was not self taught. I asked him, and his response was something to the effect: He had several teachers over 30 years, some high-profile, some not so much. He learned something from each one, but each one was missing something too. He is not associated with any particular tradition. He won't name names, because it is a distraction. It is not about the teachers, it is about the practitioners. That is his view.
So he was taught up a point over three decades. Clearly, he also innovated. Then, he obviously found the essence of all the teachings and his experience and made AYP.
AYP is not just like learning from a book. If you email Yogani, he will respond. If you post a sincere request for help, he will help. He may not want "guru status." That is the Western connotation of guru, something like a rock star. The real meaning of guru is teacher. There is no doubt that Yogani is a teacher. He is not just an author. AYP is a path, and Yogani points it out.
Then there are dedicated practitioners like myself who haunt these boards to help beings on the path. That is part of our path. There are several here. AYP is yoga, and yoga is universal, whether are are vedanta, tantra, dharma, neither, all or both. Progress on *any* path is interdependence of teacher, teachings and learning community.
If you want to be an isolated spiritual flower, then no doubt you will. But that is a limitation of your ego. If you drop that, then you will open up to a universe of helpful beings who will just brighten up your day...  |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 11:41:05 AM
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I've had several shaktipats. I'm still an idiot, so don't go by me on whether it was worth it. :)
Well, if the explanations of what Kundalini is in the various traditions are correct, then there should be no difference what so ever. The energy is described as divine and intelligent etc.
I have a pet theory that the person who instigates this in someone could themselves not be "enlightened" or otherwise any "higher". Perhaps they have it active too (even unknown to themselves).
quote:
Originally posted by stevenbhow
Just curious, for those of you that had their Kundalini Awakened by a Guru, is it different for someone like me who had a spontaneous Kundalini Awakening? I've read about and met a few Gurus, but with the exception of the Dalia Lama, I don't seem to have a very strong interest in any of them. I enjoy reading their books and watching their videos, but I don't feel any real devotion. Maybe I just have found the right one yet.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 9:09:48 PM
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try 10000000 paths and then get tired of searching, look back and pick the ones the resonate with you the most and stick with that
just my .02
brother Neil
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 02:08:59 AM
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I have had two major influences on my path, and both came to me very quickly after my first awakening.
I stumbled into AYP in June 2006. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1214
AYP has from the beginning resonated most with me and I stick to that like a cat who has put the claws in a prey. AYP is my only regular everyday basic practice. However, I have learned a lot from other traditions, methods, people and gurus meanwhile and have added on some other stuff when appropriate (and sometimes when not appropriate and then I suffer from my eager greediness )
I met Bernie Prior at about the same time, summer 2006. It was an immediate resonance and an amazing experience to meet a realized being so soon, just a couple of months after awakening, with a mind that was so confused and didn't understand zzzt of what was going on. The first time I shared The Form that summer, the tunnel opened and I spiralled down, falling, falling and exploded out in the Void of Love and a big sign was all over the place saying: "Welcome Home"... That plus being totally transparent to Bernie, realizing he could read EVERYTHING about "me", having him answering out loud all my inner silent thoughts and questions (!?!? Absolutely shocking to my mind at that time )... well, it felt as if he came to hold my hand the rest of the journey and walk by my side. And since then that's what he has done.
I'm very grateful to have coincidentally dropped in to the AYP forum some years ago, and I'm very grateful for Yogani's unselfish way of sharing spiritual wisdom. It has in a very natural way become a standard from which I measure other teachers, also Bernie! I'm so full of gratitude for the stability it has brought during my roller coaster journey.
Sometimes it feels like I have a "good cop, bad cop" situation here. Bernie is more of a spiritual heathen, boosting and pushing forward without consideration for any well-being, being the advaitan teacher leading to the Nothingness directly no matter what... Yogani and AYP teachings is more of a spiritual engineer, putting things in systematic order to bring some calmness and stability. 
What has meant the most to me is the expression "The guru is in you". The guru is truly in me... If I had not learned that by own experience through Deep Meditation, I don't think I would have such "sound distance" to a realized being as Bernie as I feel I have today. Neither would I have the "sound distance" to Yogani. AYP is so intelligently constructed - open to self-exploration and designed to be self-directed and independent of Yogani himself. Truth shines through AYP.
Today, I feel enormous gratitude and I feel so blessed to have the current path... Who chose it? I pass on that one... |
Edited by - emc on Apr 16 2009 03:27:05 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 06:59:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Sometimes it feels like I have a "good cop, bad cop" situation here. Bernie is more of a spiritual heathen, boosting and pushing forward without consideration for any well-being, being the advaitan teacher leading to the Nothingness directly no matter what... Yogani and AYP teachings is more of a spiritual engineer, putting things in systematic order to bring some calmness and stability.
Thats an interesting learning. The book I have just read is the theory of two fundementals in the Universe. One fundamental is called 'grouping' this is what you see in nature, a clump of trees, cluster of stars, a series of notes in a tune. The other is the move towards total symmetry, this is represented in the spacing between groups and is ultimately where everything blends into one harmonious mass (which would look like nothingness because none of the grouped forms are visible, even though they still exist in the soup).
These two fundamentals work against each other and create the world as we know it. Funny how when this is pointed out you begin to see and hear this very natural situation and how we arrange things on a human level, from ornaments to fields to cultural division.
The Universe is moving towards the Omega state, in a nutshell it's moving towards perfect symmetry which is nothingness. The nothingness we experience during DM seems to fit so well with that philosophy and resonates on a very human level. |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 08:13:12 AM
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| Thanks everyone for this thread. I learned a lot reading it. |
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How to choose one's spiritual path ?
