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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 2:17:42 PM
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Hi everyone,
I have just a short question.
I just came out of a deep meditation session, that turned out to be a little spooky. Before I started the session, I noticed some mildly uncomfortable emotions, like boredom, unwillingness to meditate, and so. So I went to my cushion, and begun. Soon pressure started to build up in my head,along with intense concentric furrowing of my brow. This intensified quickly to the point of spasm, or almost mild pain. My head has been pushed down with force, plus alternately bumping up and down. My spine was curling forward, and at intervals my head swiftly shook sideways, like a rattlesnake, kind of. Also, always when the pressure of the process hit it's limit, it slightly kicked me repeatedly off the cushion upwards, like little jumps. My face was twisted in a grimace, teeth clenched, lips open. Each mantra repetition, intensified the pressure. I was aware of a demonic force.
I took rest for 25 minutes, listening to soothing music with loving mantras. Now I feel okay, only a little pressure in my head left.
Does anyone have symptoms like this during deep meditation?
Thanks a lot,
Roman |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 3:01:30 PM
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Hi Roman,
I have had symptoms like that, nothing to worry about just the purification process getting a little carried away. In the end it is a good thing as lot's of purification can happen in moments like this. However a suggestion to self-pace. Yes the nervous system wants freedom and sometimes goes too fast about getting it, but it has to be within our comfort levels too so perhaps cutting practices down until the period of excess passes is a good idea?
Bet of luck! |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 6:28:40 PM
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Thanks Anthem,
I'll consider your advice carefully. I am combining powerful tools recently, so it's a bit of an experiment. I just happened to switch to high speed purification, so I want to see how it will work now. Frankly, it's my plan to go even a step further with this, during a month or so. We'll see...
Roman
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Edited by - mimirom on Mar 06 2009 6:43:42 PM |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 6:32:07 PM
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One more question: would you cut down only on spinal breathing, or both s.b. and meditation? To me it feels like I need more inner silence, to get in balance.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 6:55:47 PM
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Hi Roman,
Self pacing will be a balancing act.. cut back on SPB and see, maybe that will take care of this, else cut back on both in the beginning, then once the symptoms get under control, slowly go back to the full med time, if you feel fine after that, then gradually go back to the full SPB time. Each person is different, so you will have to find your balance.
One more thing that may help is to add some light asanas to the beginning of your routine.
Wish you the best. |
Edited by - Shanti on Mar 06 2009 7:58:41 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 04:30:57 AM
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Hi Mimirom,
What are the powerful tools that you are combining at the moment? And when you say that you plan to go a step further in a month or so, what do you have planned?
Christi |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 09:58:22 AM
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This is part of the process of your channels clearing of obstructions. The feelings of a for foreboding, of presences, etc., is a product of your karma and your subtle mind. Carry on. Be brave.
Love,
TMS |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 1:58:05 PM
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Thank you so much for your kind replies, Shanti, Christi, and Mystic,
I will follow your advice, Shanti. It sounds very trustworthy to me. Thank you.
I'm doing lots of asana practice. I'm what we call "advanced" here in Prague.  Really, I do asanas before sitting, after sitting... I enjoy them very much. However, thanks for the link, I haven't read that section yet And I will...
Christi, I'm practicing SBP 10 min, DM 20 - both twice daily, lots of asana training, traditional pranayama (ujjayi,alternate nostril b.,kapalabhati,antara/bahia khumbaka), mula/uddiyana/jalandhara bandha
+ the main thing I did for the first time combined with AYP is Holotropic Breathwork. I'm doing it systematically for more then three years now, with great results, but now for the first time with AYP. This turns out to be a rather powerful (and very interesting) combination.
I've written about it, and what precisely it is, here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5226
The step further is another session of Holotropic Breathwork, which I've planned for the end of April. Normally, before I started AYP, this would be perfectly responsible. Since I feel very good during activity, between sitting practices (Really I feel good during them as well, it's just fairly intense,) I think I'm gonna try it.
quote:
The feelings of a for foreboding, of presences, etc., is a product of your karma and your subtle mind
Interesting TMS, thanks.
quote:
Be brave.
Yes Sir! 
Roman
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Edited by - mimirom on Mar 08 2009 10:30:31 AM |
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sushman
India
86 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 2:10:09 PM
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| Yes Roman. It happens to me during meditaion. nothing to worry. |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 7:04:37 PM
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| Thanks Sushi! |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2009 : 7:39:51 PM
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Hi Roman :)
I'd say you should be getting ready for some serious self-pacing :)
From what you've written your practice is very heavy on energy cultivation (pranayama, breathing, asanas...). I think it may work for a certain limited amount of time, but with regard to your other symptoms, I think you're approaching a cliff with high speed, so be careful please :) I'd certainly self-pace all the energy practices a few days in advance of the holotropic breathwork. Remember as Yogani says that this is a marathon rather than a sprint and that balance is most important over the long term.
I used to do a lot of asanas and kumbhakas and such, I think similar in intensity to what you're doing now. It worked well for some months, but it has created a huge momentum that is still noticeable now, after 8 months of much more gentle practice. I can't do much asanas, or kumbhaka - too intense at the moment. So please remember that momentum is building under the surface and it's not possible to stop once you get going too fast :) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2009 : 02:25:57 AM
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Hi Mimirom,
quote:
I have just a short question.
I just came out of a deep meditation session, that turned out to be a little spooky. Before I started the session, I noticed some mildly uncomfortable emotions, like boredom, unwillingness to meditate, and so. So I went to my cushion, and begun. Soon pressure started to build up in my head,along with intense concentric furrowing of my brow. This intensified quickly to the point of spasm, or almost mild pain. My head has been pushed down with force, plus alternately bumping up and down. My spine was curling forward, and at intervals my head swiftly shook sideways, like a rattlesnake, kind of. Also, always when the pressure of the process hit it's limit, it slightly kicked me repeatedly off the cushion upwards, like little jumps. My face was twisted in a grimace, teeth clenched, lips open. Each mantra repetition, intensified the pressure. I was aware of a demonic force.
I took rest for 25 minutes, listening to soothing music with loving mantras. Now I feel okay, only a little pressure in my head left.
Does anyone have symptoms like this during deep meditation?
The situation you described would be kundalini intensifying it's activity in your body during deep meditation. The shaking of your head from side to side is caused by the kundalini moving through your ida and pingala nadis, causing a whiplash situation. Kundalini can cause mild (or at times strong) feelings of paranoia, which could explain the feelings of a demonic presence. Also the activation of your chakra system can temporarily activate your psychic senses, making you aware of the presence of spirits (both malevolent and benevolent).
I would not say that this one experience is a sign in itself that you need to self-pace. Personally I go by how I feel in daily life as to how I regulate my own practices. If you are iritable/ are getting headaches/ feeling paranoid a lot of the time between practices I would say that was a sign to cut back on practices. Of course if things are happening regularily during your practice sessions that feel too much to handle, then you can't go on like that, but if it is just once in a while, I wouldn't worry.
quote:
Christi, I'm practicing SBP 10 min, DM 20 - both twice daily, lots of asana training, traditional pranayama (ujjayi,alternate nostril b.,kapalabhati,antara/bahia khumbaka), mula/uddiyana/jalandhara bandha
+ the main thing I did for the first time combined with AYP is Holotropic Breathwork. I'm doing it systematically for more then three years now, with great results, but now for the first time with AYP. This turns out to be a rather powerful (and very interesting) combination.
I've written about it, and what precisely it is, here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5226
The step further is another session of Holotropic Breathwork, which I've planned for the end of April. Normally, before I started AYP, this would be perfectly responsible. Since I feel very good during activity, between sitting practices (Really I feel good during them as well, it's just fairly intense,) I think I'm gonna try it.
Your practices sound fine. I tried to work out from that link what holotrophic breath work is, but it wasn't that clear. Is it one of those things where lots of people all lie down together in a room and breathe deeply and continuously for an hour? How often do you do it, and how long for? Is it something you do everyday on your own, or only with a teacher guiding you?
Christi
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2009 : 05:59:03 AM
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| If you were feeling like you did not want to meditate, but made yourself focus anyway, it could simply be that the force of concentration lead to headache and restlessness that had to be expressed. Be easy, no? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2009 : 08:25:53 AM
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I cannot give any advice, but I had a similar experience meditating last night. I'm quite happy with the odd spasm and pressure waves, but last night I had the feeling of something watching me, it was an effort to stop myself simply opening my eyes, and became quite scary. I carried on through it and the feelings died away.
I bow to the more knowledgeable people on this forum. So that's Kundalini ??? |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2009 : 7:01:10 PM
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Hi tadeas and thank you,
since I'm still new to AYP, I certainly don't have a good feel for the power of it's practices. And of course, desire for spiritual progress is an ever present issue... Yes, it's certainly good to stay with the idea of balance/middle way as the main rule. What I'm doing now is searching a maximum efficient/stable balancing point, and since I don't know yet how intense or not AYP can be, this may involve hitting the edge... With advice, such as yours, this hit might be just gentle, which would be certainly optimal...
This leads me to a question:
How does it actually look like, when we hit the cliff with a speed that is too high?
Christy,
really thanks for your analysis of the things going on in my head and body. Feels good to have some names and structures for the experiences. The demonic presence awareness does actually not feel paranoia-like. No anxiety, or feelings of jeopardy attached to it. Would be possible to observe it as an interesting manifestation, if only one would be allowed to leave the mantra 
quote:
I tried to work out from that link what holotrophic breath work is, but it wasn't that clear.
Okay Christy, what I'm talking about is HOLOTROPIC BREATHWORKTM, a powerful transformative technique developed by Christina and Stan Grof, some 40 years ago. It is not something you could do on a daily, or even weekly or monthly basis. For systematic seekers it is usual to make 4 - 5 sessions a year. It is done in a rigorously defined set&setting, under the guidance of one or more certified instructors. It wouldn't be possible to do it safely without assistance of several people, since the trance often goes very deep - roughly comparable with a pretty high doses of LSD. (As far as my information goes, people during HB behave pretty much in the same way as people receiving Shaktipat - shouting, speaking in tongues, vigorous physical action, dance-like movements, automatic asanas&mudras, kriyas, spasms...) The certification is given by the "Grof Transpersonal Training" association, and this involves a few years of schooling. The breathing is done in groups, and involves relaxation, deep continuos breathing, evocative music, and bodywork. People usually stay in a trance (non-ordinary state of consciousness) for 2 - 3 hours. Sometimes it is mild, sometimes very powerful. The process frequently mediates fundamental leaps in spiritual transformation, like major life-breakthroughs, initial spiritual opening, etc. Experiential identifications with highest cosmic principles (like "the Unified Cosmos", Archetypal Beings/Deities, pure forms of the Brahmaviharas, or "the Primordial Creative Source," among many) are not rare, as well as past-life experiences, direct perceptions of the energetic body, episodes of massive purification (as In my last case, which I described in the Enlightenment Milestones section), experiential identification with planetary consciousness, or even with the "meta-cosmic void." The number of these experiences is really infinite. Also, a successful HB session can result in the occurrence of entire systems of synchronistic events, which can be challenging, in terms of rebuilding psychical integrity on a higher level. The entire thing is theoretically framed in the scientific branch called Transpersonal psychology + most of the instructors traditionally use the main spiritual systems for reference too. It's been found that the method has a significant healing and heuristic potential.
As I'm asking you folks for advice on my self-pacing, I should perhaps mention that I feel just great during activity. I'd almost say better then ever. Most of the time it's really --> 
quote:
Posted by Jack
If you were feeling like you did not want to meditate, but made yourself focus anyway, it could simply be that the force of concentration lead to headache and restlessness that had to be expressed. Be easy, no?
Hi Jack, thanks for the input.
Well, yes, I would expect all kinds of psychic states to occur in meditation. Including restlessness or boredom, yes. And fortunately, I'm never having headache, just to be clear about that point.
Karl,
quote:
I'm quite happy with the odd spasm and pressure waves
Yes, me too  It's funny how we even invite these things to happen, isn't it..? Just imagining how it would be to tell my colleagues in the orchestra about my interesting hobby... 
quote:
I bow to the more knowledgeable people on this forum. So that's Kundalini ???
So do I....
Roman |
Edited by - mimirom on Mar 08 2009 7:38:36 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2009 : 01:53:22 AM
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Hi Mimirom,
Thanks for the details on holotropic breathwork. Sounds a lot like shamanic trance states. They are also often accompanied, use relaxation, altered breathing, music etc. and the experiences sound similar.
If you are feeling fine during daily activity I would not worry and carry on as normal. If you were feeling on the verge of going over energetically during daily activity, then something like HB would probably push you over the edge. It sounds really intense. There have been a few here who have put themselves at the upper limit in terms of purification doing AYP every day, and then have pushed themselves over by going on a spiritual retreat or doing intense inner work of some kind on a course.
But as I said, if you are not pushing the envelope already then I would go ahead... and let us know how it goes.
quote:
Christy,
really thanks for your analysis of the things going on in my head and body. Feels good to have some names and structures for the experiences. The demonic presence awareness does actually not feel paranoia-like. No anxiety, or feelings of jeopardy attached to it. Would be possible to observe it as an interesting manifestation, if only one would be allowed to leave the mantra
Then it must of been something that goes bump in the night.
In my experience, the best way of dealing with these things is to believe that they cannot harm you. If you want to strengthen the conviction then you can believe that a higher being is watching you as well, and because they are protecting you, the malevolent entity is unable to harm you. These (malevolent)invisible things dwell in the lower astral realms and in those realms there is a strong correlation between belief and reality. In otherwords, what you believe happens, often does. The stronger your conviction, the higher the chance of success.
Christi |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2009 : 6:46:36 PM
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Hi Christi and all,
I thought I could just quickly report back a little, in order to let the Sangha know.
So, I went to 50% of SBP one week ago, the rest of the practices remaining the same. That is 5 min of spinal breathing. Meditation begun practically immediately move towards balance. Automatic movements were still there - they occurred first after the holotropic breathwork session, and never stopped since then - but far more "cultivated".
The morning sits typically went more towards silence - breath slowing down/stopping, mantra faint, no or little physical movement. (But before the HB, there was definitely more silence.)
Evening sits were more active and energetic - brow furrowing, auto jalandhara/mulabandha, sambhavi mudra + some movements.
Today I tried to go back to 10 min of SBP, and the evening sit (I joined the AYP global meditation) was very active again. It was great fun this time, really a pleasurable experience. The mantra "sucked me in" immediately, and after a few repetitions I found myself holding stable mulabandha/sambhavi mudra. This lasted for the whole sit, without interruptions. During the entire 20 minutes, my pelvis was literarily "dancing" on the cushion. (Good that I don't use back support, cos this wouldn't be possible) All kinds of funny movements were occurring, oscillations, vibrations, back and forth or sideways rocking and rolling, jumping, bumping, shaking, pushing, releasing, pulling, back stretching - feeling the thing going up higher, who knows what else... I felt like on a party, great fun 
After the sit I practiced also "solo-tantra" a little, and it felt actually very stable. I observe 99% brahmacharia, but feel rarely drawn to build up additional energy these days.
Also the spinal breathing itself begins to evolve, I'd say. I'm more following now, then initiating.
So, the only thing I can say, I guess, is that the HB session dramatically stimulates the raise of the magic K in my body. Well, It's something I always wanted, after all.
Outside practices I feel good so far.
Any comments/hints highly appreciated
Roman |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 02:48:53 AM
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Hi Mimirom,
thanks for the update.
All sounds fine to me... keep up the good work. :)
Christi |
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Demonic stuff in meditation
