|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 1:24:28 PM
|
Gumpi....
Who are you trying to convice that meditation is self-hypnosis? Us or you? Good luck convincing all of us who actually DO experience significant changes in daily life due to meditation that this is all merely self-hypnosis. If it was, I would have been clean from drugs many many years ago and not just this October after starting AYP in July. The effects from meditation on my drug withdrawals was NOT self-hypnosis. If it was I should become a hypnotherapist! I'd make millions!
And in regards to your "Where is the evidence of God" statement....
YOU are the evidence of God. If there was no God you wouldn't be here!
Love,
Carson |
 |
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 1:28:43 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Yes, actually i am. Who isn't interested in their own thoughts? You are a clear example of someone that is. What you call samsara, i call life with cause and effect minus metaphysical speculation based on theories with no evidence to back them up, including so called past life experiences.
There is a reason why doubt exists. it helps you to discriminate properly and not get sucked into bogus speculative theories about life. So if you are pooh poohing doubt perhaps you should think again.
Yes i am frustrated at having wasted the last 8 years meditating when i could have been getting on with my life like other normal people. You say meditation is about peace and happiness but i don't see that anywhere in any persons that meditate. If anything they seem like emotionally blunt selfish people with huge egos.
I was not closed minded. I did the techniques and they failed. Now i am more open minded than before.
I don't jump to conclusions about meditation. I have been there, done that, worn the t-shirt and it failed to come up with the goods. That is why i say that anyone that thinks they are getting anything out of meditation is engaging their mind in self hypnosis. Brains are highly complex things and most people suffer from gullibility and lack of critical thinking, which opens them up to powerful suggestions, especially when combined with dream like states.
I don't fall asleep during meditation usually but i have in the past. The ability to not fall asleep is an easy process of awareness. But it doesn't produce what people claim it does - some kind of thought free state. It is a state of alpha brainwaves combined with beta brainwaves and no different to day dreaming. Experiences like OBEs and precognition can occur in the deeper theta/alpha states with accompanying hypnagogic phenomena. So if you want spiritual experiences you need to relax so deeply your brainwaves are in theta and this sometimes means you can fall into a temporary sleep of unconsciousness and come to again. But not everyone has spiritual experiences in theta or hypnagogic phenomena, which proves that the brain is producing these states and differs from individual to individual. Hence the likilyhood that most of those experiences are self induced through self hypnosis and not caused by anything else.
Well hey, Gumpi, at you least you did your best, right? You have nothing to feel guilty about. You know what's right, and now you are confident. It feels good to come on AYP and tell us all we're deluding ourselves.
I will continue meditation, as I have for 30 years. I will continue to help others who are interested in meditation; this is what my guru Drubpon Rinpoche asked me to do.
BTW, My meditation is about not thinking about I or mine, it or that, and freeing my senses from burdensome thoughts, like judgments and doubts.
Gumpi, the most important thing is that you be happy. My feeling is that you are not happy. You want to believe you have found a truth, but deep down you continue seeking, why you are here.
If I came across harsh or unfeeling, I apologize. May you find peace.
Love,
TMS |
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 1:36:20 PM
|
Gumpi, You know relaxation is the path. You are relaxing into the natural state of your mind, which is not attached to past or future and is not attached to thoughts, worries or doubts. When your mind is in its natural state, your innate wisdom can express itself. Your innate wisdom is the awakening; the cloud of thoughts are like a dream, like sleeping.
You may have expected too much. Don't focus on expectations. That's what helps me tremendously.
Love,
TMS |
|
|
|
Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 2:05:51 PM
|
dear gumpi, first of all that's a good try in escaping by opening other windows but still you haven't answered my main questions about your life style...
and even if it's all self hypnosis and playing on brain wave paterns still it's all good and as karl said it's all self hypnosis i kind of enquired on what he said and most of the things we do in our normal day actually are smthg like that.
by the way the satisfaction which you get from eating or having sex or breathing oxygen after holding your breath is all self hypnosis if we follow up the pattern which you are suggesting.
but what i am experiencing is simply put far beyond hypnosis, hell i even see my mind at work our true self is far beyond the body it's not just a state of mind it's a state of being a state of pure joy a state of total satisfaction and i am very sad that you do not see that and i hope there was an easy way i could share it but as yogani puts it i can offer you all the right tools but i cannot give you a purified nervous system that you'll have to do yourself.
about them minor siddhis i do experience they tend to be along the lines of telepathy plus seeing a lot of futuristic stuff which are related to my own personal life but that stuff does not happen within my control they just do happen so nope i can't prove them but jesus used to and us human beings living and breathing and the way which we are manufactured is a miracle by itself the biggest siddhi you may say thus proving the existence of something which is higher than us (God, truth, tao, moksha …)
concerning waves of bliss they are a mixture of rising ecstacy which is due to natural vajroli (the transformation of sexual energies into ecstatic ones when they do go upwards) plus inner silence.
ecstacy + inner silence = waves of bliss and outpouring divine love which i really feel for you.
et me amigo it seems that you rather be right than enlightened and i am sorry you feel that way.
i wish you good luck on your chosen path and i'll pray for you my brother.
kindest regards,
Ananda
|
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 3:48:31 PM
|
Gumpi,
just to clarify some things. There are big differences in what people experience and get from meditation. Some people seem to experience nothing at all, others a lot. If you're experiencing definite relaxation, you are somewhere in between.
The people who are experiencing more (chakras etc.) aren't imagining it -- you just haven't experienced that. There are good reasons why I believe that but I won't get into them here. However, I believe that you are right that the interpretation that people have of these things is probably not accurate.
The yoga 'body of knowledge' can rightly be called a folklore and a sacro-mythology right now. It is not by any means a precise science yet as we understand the term. This doesn't mean that it's garbage, just not as precise as we expect in our modern way of thinking. Years ago, people still knew that the sun was 'coming up' in the morning, even as they wrongly thought that it was revolving around the earth.
I think you're probably right that people are not levitating. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that anyone is.
As for enlightenment, well, I think it's real as a set of processes, having experienced some of them myself. However, the yoga folklore may still have an inaccurate picture of what that process is. The Perfectly Realized Master-Siddha, as a concept, is I believe, probably mistaken. I've talked about this a lot. The belief in that one can play out quite negatively too. In practice, leaders of Yoga-related sacro-mythical groups play to the belief in their status as the Perfectly Realized Master-Siddha, and all sorts of problems follow.
As for self-hypnosis, I don't know why you fix on that one. Did self-hypnosis convince you that you got relaxed, or did you really get relaxed? Why does self-hypnosis appear to be the only explanation for these phenomena?
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 05 2009 3:51:57 PM |
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 4:00:09 PM
|
I have to agree on one point. Learning yoga from books or even on line is difficult. Having a live teacher from a strong lineage is nice, makes things a little easier. Yogani does the best job I've seen of writing the instructions for kundalini practice. With such a wide audience, he is not available for one to one guru help. Plus he wants to be anonymous. It's nice to find a dharma or yoga friend who you can go see, talk to, have tea and soak up some healthy vibes. This is why I like monks and nuns...
Love,
TMS |
|
|
|
gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 4:11:49 PM
|
David,
I only have a small window of time to respond right now but i will answer or try to answer your last questions.
No, relaxation has got nothing to do with hypnosis.
Self hypnosis appears TO ME to be the only explanation of spiritual phenomena because TO ME they don't exist. Even if they did exist they wouldn't be the same for me as for anyone else. So i cannot agree that they exist. Therefore i either ignore their existence or i account for them as being particular brain states of other people. It isn't hard to imagine that other people's brains are different to mine, and therefore they experience things i don't. But i draw the line when it comes to actual objective facts and psychological experiences.
|
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 5:06:50 PM
|
Discursive thoughts (the constant recitals "this is this; this is that") cloud the common awareness, the common sense, if you will. The common awareness is the wisdom aspect of mind that must be awakened, maintained and allowed to mature. This is the essence of all buddhist teaching. Buddha is a wisdom mind that encompasses all phenomena.
This is the highest of all teachings. Do you understand?
All the practices in the world of yoga are to accomplish the awakening of wisdom: to understand the world as it is, not as we want it to be.
Love,
TMS |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Mar 05 2009 5:09:31 PM |
|
|
|
ymladris
Czech Republic
20 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 5:08:22 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Self hypnosis appears TO ME to be the only explanation of spiritual phenomena because TO ME they don't exist.
hi gumpi,
i am very interested in question "why some methods work on somebody but not on somebody else". from my point of view it's a big topic for applied spiritual science ;-).
have you been analyzing this from your point view? Like, do you know some other people with 'zero' access to 'spiritual phenomena'? and what are common characteristics? Would you mind sharing more about that guy 'Gumpi'? ;-)
1) are you 'devotional' (passionately or eagerly following something; like sport, science, hobby, whatever)?
2) i assume you are sceptic? (same here ;-))
3) what is your relation to art or other totally subjective things?
4) ... what do you think is the feature of Gumpi, related?
I am interested in reality not in scenery, too ;-). Scenery is just scenery; impermanent and empty ;). But, all phenomena are scenery, not just the spiritual ones. Could you please more elaborate on the concept of 'reality' - what are you looking for? what aspects the 'thing' must possess for you to be 'real'?
have a nice day
-- Mirka |
|
|
|
anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 5:17:58 PM
|
Gumpi,
A few things I would like to point out.
"self hypnosis". What is it to you? If it is the ability to create a sense of experience of something that to the invidivual registers as 100% true, but to others may not be true or not able to be proven...and that is an invalid spiritual experience...then you believe that there is ONE reality for everyone. You do not subscribe to the idea that we create our own realities, however you want to take that. If you believe in the One Reality model then you would have to accept the idea that yoga is a way to see beyond this model. If you like that model of uniform and concrete reality and it makes you happy (doesn't seem like it does) then go with it. If you intuit or have faith that there is something beyond it - keep seeking. You actually make me feel a bit better about myself in that I thought I was the poster child of overanalysis and "getting in my own way".
I also notice that you are extremely inconsistent...more and more so. A month or so ago you posted a wonderful encouraging post about how practice and consistency is important and not analyzing the results. Then, less than a week later you post about how practices are bogus and all that matters is devotion to God. Now, you say God is self-hypnosis.
What are you seeking with spiritual practice? are you hoping to calm the mind and discipline your thoughts with an open mindset as to what may lay ahead of this? Were you convinced at some point of what is beyond the thoughts and were striving to achieve it with a pretty dead-set idea of what you would eventually arrive at?
If you truly believe everything you have stated on this thread, then do you continue your practices...perhaps it is a blessing because now you stop having expectations? Do you completely stop? Is it even possible? |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 5:43:11 PM
|
I will play the devil's advocate here:
What if it IS all self-hypnosis?
First of all, NOTHING can be proven and that applies to every subject, not just spirituality.
If you have studied geometry, you know that the only way things can be "proven" is by first agreeing upon certain basic assumptions that CAN'T BE PROVEN!
Our entire normal reality is based upon inputs we receive through our senses which are sent to our brain by electrical impulse. Since there is way too much information to process, our brain throws most of the inputs out, and processes only some. What gets thrown out is different in different people.
So from a scientific point of view, there is no way to directly experience reality!
So naturally when Patanjali writes of directly experiencing an object, scientific minds will say there is no proof. That is because science has yet to establish any assumptions in regards to experiencing reality beyond the normal senses.
But even the "proofs" that are generally accepted by science are suspect because 1) Everyone filters their excess input differently, and 2) They are built upon assumptions that haven't been proven!
So it is quite likely that even "normal reality" is a sort of self hypnosis. So let's compare a couple different types of self hypnosis:
1) A person discovers that twice daily meditation is making profound changes for the good in his life.
2) Another person says meditation is hogwash. It is not possible for anything to improve his life.
He constantly looks for solid evidence that some new kind of input from the outside could improve his life, but can never find anything good enough. He is so afraid that he may be fooling himself that he takes no action. And yet he doesn't realize he is constantly fooling himself. |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 5:50:46 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything. I did believe in it till i tried it. it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
What are you doing here Natalie ? 
We all knew you would end up posting on here eventually, we have worked so hard for this day and finally it happened.
and you know why your here don't you. How you found this forum. Why you wrote your story here with such conviction.
Are you trying to save us from ourselves ? Most of us already know it's hopeless, it's only you that still has that hope. |
|
|
|
cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 6:45:21 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
wow, i see by my comments on meditation , and my experience i have upset a number of people.........that was not intended.
Hi Natalie, your comments are more than welcome here. And so are you . Your experience with meditation is perhaps more common than what is reflected on these forums. You were merely the one to voice it.
This discussion is important because it allows us to take a look at ourselves and question/appreciate/validate/etc. our own practice and see if this is where we want to be. And if we are free thinking people, then "opposing" views are not a threat, but a blessing because we can learn from them and take or leave what fragment of truth may be there.
If you are convinced that meditation is bogus and has no value, then there is no practical help anyone can offer. It will just lead to lively debates like this one  . On the other hand, if you decide to give meditation another chance, you will find that there are a lot of kind people here willing to offer their experiences and support.
Either way, it's a pleasure to have you here. All the best!
With Love
cosmic |
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 8:21:18 PM
|
"If anything they seem like emotionally blunt selfish people with huge egos."
Hmm, you say it is all hypnosis, people are fooling themselves, that since you have tried it and failded that meditation is a failure. Blunt egoic statements? funny how we can often times project ourselves onto others. Being honest, notice I said WE, I have done this MANY times too brother. so you still looking for scientific facts brother gumpi? Maybe if meditation is a failure then that means WE dont have to take responsibility for ourselves failing? Meditation may not be for everyone, maybe some people do karma yoga, some just self inquiry, others just constant awareness. I live in florida, I can get to georgia walking, riding a bike, riding a train, in a car, in a plane. SO because walking is not for me then that option is a failure? who knows, maybe if I meditate enough I can levitate there?
It is no big deal when you try and spit fire at people, fire burns off impurities and the strong will be left standing.
I do find it funny how many times you ignore when I have typed about science to you and that there is only one scientific fact, Existence, and then you still try and stick by science when science itself knows the unexplainable variable is the trump card of them all.
so maybe what I have typed is blunt and egoic, I can accept that By the way, what science do you believe in, since you have reffered to science so much?
I laugh because I do love you brother, even when we fight
with love
brother Neil
|
|
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 8:36:19 PM
|
just read you long post brother Gumpi
Jesus said "humility is the key to the kingdom of God" my point, humble people care not to prove themselves. You think sidhis are some amazing thing, yet you fail to recognize NOTHING is more amazig then the simple fact of existence. Life, humans, solar systems exist, but levitation is impossible Your scientific proof for sidhis? chris angel, the dude from mindfreak. But then you may say "well that is just a show and he does not really do that" So once again someone has tried to show and is not believed. Maybe he does it, maybe he doesnt, but the point is you would not believe it if you saw it so why would someone care to show it to you? Look up swami nithyanandas brainwave patters, but you may not believe the results there either.
Again it is like the golf swing. MOST instructors do not really understand the swing, however there are some that do. MOST of the students who go to the ones that do not get a good swing, WHY, because they may not believe the truth even when they see it, they may not recognize for their ego may get in the way. They may not put in some effort that is required, they may not relax enough to see results. Of course meditation and golf statistics will go all over the charts, The vairables like faith, commitment, sincereity, love, those cannnot be measured. What matters most in life cannot be measured. Science has Limits.
with love to you brother
brother Neil
|
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 9:55:13 PM
|
recognize oneself
nothing whatsoever blank
blankness is transparent
the transparency is inexpressible |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 10:03:17 PM
|
| chris angel was dating britney spears; gives a little insight into who he is. |
|
|
|
stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 10:45:10 PM
|
Hi gumpi,
I think you give science too much credit. What is energy? Science can't tell us exactly what it is, what it's base nature is. Therefore, since energy is the basis of everything, science can't really tell us anything can it. Maybe that's why so many spiritual practices advise us to simply surrender. You won't find the truth using your intellect alone. |
|
|
|
Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 11:56:33 PM
|
| Self-hypnosis is fine with me, as long as it delivers results. Even if it takes awhile, that's all right for me--I want to be okay with just sitting. Maybe it's not for everyone. I personally have to trick myself to get any results because my mind is so stubborn :) |
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 02:37:44 AM
|
Hypnosis and meditation are not equated. It does not appear that many people know what meditation is. It's awareness. It's alertness. It's sensitivity. It's intuition. It's innate wisdom. Stop stroking each other and get real. It's the mind's innate knowing capacity. There are so many wrong views here. Get a handle on the reality of the mind. If you can't then try to talk to someone who does.
1. Karma is real; your actions have an effect.
2. Life is suffering. There is a way to avoid suffering.
3. Conventional reality is just a shared delusion.
4. The human life is a precious opportunity to wake up from the consensus trance of shared fictions.
All our minds hold to a false duality that results in a mental matrix of token concepts being experienced in place of the objects themselves. You are all already in the trance. Trance will not wake you up. Diving back deeper into the dream world will make you feel more lost.
The guru is the universe. Wake up and learn.
Love,
TMS |
|
|
|
gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 04:15:39 AM
|
There are way too many questions directed at me for me to answer here. It would take me ages to respond to everything and i don't have time. so i will respond to things i remember reading.
Neil, criss angel is a magician. He does tricks. He is totally opposed to anything supernatural as he has stated. If you want to get into some debate about the possibility he might be lying or hiding the fact he really can fly it won't wash with me. If you know anything about magic and what magicians do i don't think you would be citing Criss Angel as an example of supernatural powers.
I find the anti-science debate pointless. Science has limited tools at the moment but things constantly improve. When you say science doesn't know the essence of phenomena that is true but neither does anybody else know, despite claims to the contrary. If science one day was able to measure the supposed subtle body energy i'm sure people would jump up and say "told you so" regardless of the previous attitude where people are saying things about science that are negative.
We have the ability to judge accurately enough the existence of technology that science has produced without descending into some sort of abyss about how science is not "reality". We can all agree on objective realities, and usually when people fail to do that they are called abnormal. There is a good reason why too. Let's not forget statistics.
I've read before that Patanjali is supposed to be the most thorough study of psychology that exists. This is simply just not true. It is a very primitive form of psychological analysis that was made thousands of years ago and has very little bearing on our modern understanding of psychology.
I don't understand talk about "wisdom" in Buddhism. It's just a bunch of words. Let's get to the nitty gritty - i am saying that your experiences with meditation are self hypnosis. That might work for you but it doesn't work for everyone. I think that sums up what i have been saying.
I've been asked why i am here. I already answered that. But i don't buy that argument at all. I am here because i want to be here, because i have been here, because i can be here.
There might be scientific or mathematical subjects that start out with the wrong assumptions but that doesn't mean that the whole of science of mathematics is based on false assumptions. Indeed, the existence of double blind testing effectively rules out the errors that humans make because of their limited sensory perceptions. So again, this anti-science ranting has no bearing on what we are discussing and it isn't a counter argument to much if anything.
So people were quick to label natalie a troll. That is an example of the kind of thinking that goes on on these forums. But to be fair there are a few people here that are reasonable. |
|
|
|
Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 04:37:42 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I don't come here to intentionally upset people. But sometimes people need a kick in the backside and to wake up to reality, and if i am the person around here that has that job i will gladly take it.
(...)
That is why it is frustrating coming to forums like these where people claim to know these things are real without providing evidence for them or explaining how they can happen.
Hi,
Truth doesn't need any proof. Truth doesn't need to defend Itself.
Also nobody here asked to be kicked in the backside..(!)
People here are simply happy to share their experiences and feelings with eachother and by being open to eachother, without judging, it can be supportive and constructive.
Nobody can and will ever give you evidences or explanations about their meditation experiences... even if it was possible: WHAT'S THE POINT OF GETTING SUCH EVIDENCES FOR YOU?????
Would that make you more meditative??!!
If I explain to you how delicious was the chocolate cake I ate yesterday, would it give you any direct experience of the taste?
All I can give you is the recipe and you will have to prepare it and taste by yourself!
So basically, the lessons here are the "recipes" and you are your own "cook"..
Nobody is responsible for your experience.
And you are not responsible for anybody else awakening..
So just relax, take a deep breath, and simply take what you feel is helping you..
Otherwise you will keep on being frustrated.. how can someone frustrated pretend to be helpful to other beings?!
Peace.. (not pieces!) |
Edited by - Goddessinside on Mar 06 2009 06:27:32 AM |
|
|
|
gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 07:39:56 AM
|
I know that people can come here to share their experiences and i am questioning the validity of those experiences. It wouldn't convince me and doesn't convince me what those particular experiences prove but some of them are outlandish claims that i feel need to be tackled. Of course people can share their experiences and get support but you can't expect everybody who comes to these forums to swallow whole some of the things people regurgitate, especially when they don't fall under the rubric of our scientific understanding of nature.
I didn't ask anybody whether they asked to be kicked up the backside.
I shouldn't have to say it again but i will: meditation can produce relaxation. I don't have a problem with that at all. It is all the rest of the things people are claiming meditation does that gets my goat. Things like "thoughtless states" and "pure bliss consciousness", which simply don't have any basis in reality or are fancy words used to describe non-extraordinary states of relaxed awareness. you can't really get high meditating but if you think you can, you can.
By all means share your experiences but don't expect me to sit back and not question them if i feel they overstep the bounds of ordinariness. I will pull you up on them and deconstruct them for you. |
|
|
|
karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 07:48:27 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
i am saying that your experiences with meditation are self hypnosis. That might work for you but it doesn't work for everyone. I think that sums up what i have been saying.
So people were quick to label natalie a troll. That is an example of the kind of thinking that goes on on these forums. But to be fair there are a few people here that are reasonable.
As a hypnotherapist I can tell you that it is not self hypnosis. If anyone is actively subjecting themselves to this then it is not meditation. Hypnosis is used to re-inforce at subconcious level, you can create changes in perception (Im refraining from saying reality because we dont know exactly what that is) changing perceptions can introduce visions, sound, smells, tastes and feelings that have a client has not previously been aware of, or experienced.
As for Natalie,she/he is a seeker of truth, otherwise she/he would not be wasting the energy to find this forum and post subjective opinions. That is the raw material of natural curiosity and feedback from an action.
I did x to get y
but I found z
others seem to say they have found y
Let me interrogate those who say they have found y
I will engage in these discussions by using my natural way of understanding the world, which is to confront it and disagree with it until it reveals it's truth.
It's a perfectly valid way of understanding something, although it does have the effect of raising peoples hackles.......and thats a good thing.
Hers to you Natalie |
|
|
|
themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2009 : 09:22:35 AM
|
Gumpi, I'm saying that you are already self-hypnotized by your thoughts and beliefs, none of which have any inherent truth, all of which only have limited shades of meaning from your limited relative perspective. You are deluding yourself if you think you have found even one speck of truth or are conveying it to any of us. There is no truth to be found and no truth to speak of. But the mind itself, has a clear knowing aspect that is non-conceptual, that is not bifurcated by linguistic tokens. That aspect of mind is tinted with compassion, and through that aspect, at peace and is happy. Until you tap that, you will suffer. Best of luck,
TMS |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Why I don't believe in meditation
