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natalie
South Africa
3 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 08:48:56 AM
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i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything. I did believe in it till i tried it. it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 10:17:46 AM
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Hi Natalie,
Welcome to the forum.
It really depends what you are looking for doesn't it?
Ultimately, I meditate because it feels good. The reward is in the action so nothing is lost. I could understand that if you were meditating because you were looking for a particular experience then that could be disappointing if it never materialized.
The benefits of meditation have been proven in numerous scientific studies. See a summary of one of the more famous ones conducted at Harvard here:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/11/1...r/index.html
What kind of meditation did you try? What were you looking for in meditation or hoping that it would do?
Best wishes!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 10:42:42 AM
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Hi Natalie and welcome to the forum....
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything.
Wow.....you sound kinda angry....Any particular reason? Did someone somewhere tell you to expect something from meditation that you never received? What exactly were your expectations when trying meditation? And can you really say "I have done everything"? Can ANYONE ever say that? Perhaps you could realize that you are at least exagerating a little bit?
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
I did believe in it till i tried it.
Believe in it? Believe in meditation? Believe WHAT in meditation? Again, what were you hoping to achieve with meditation? Were you under the impression that you would become enlightened after reading a few books and meditating a couple of times? I've never heard of that happening to anyone. Did you believe that you would be instantly more peaceful, more aware...something like that? Coming into a meditative practice with set ideas about what will happen is most likely only setting yourself up for disappointment. The best attitude to take into meditation (IMO) is one of open acceptance of what IS....not what could be or should be or what you WANT it to be. That's trying to force your idea of what reality should be, onto a situation that will unfold as it will, no matter what you "think" of it.
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......
Hahahaha....You do realize you are saying this on the AYP forum right? AYP being an open source FREE system that noone is making money off of right? Perhaps that statement belongs on a different website?
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You do realize that this is just your perception of reality yet again right? There is no way you can know one way or the other what someone experiences internally, so.....saying this is pure speculation and really is just your opinion. Nothing more. your opinion does not create reality. And I suggest you have a read through the link Anthem posted for you so you can see some of the scientific research that proves what you are saying is wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
Sounds like a very "me versus them" attitude. Living life like that can be pretty exhausting. I've been there. I hope one day you can learn to realize that we are all on the same team here on Earth....the human being team. There is no "us versus them".
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
Don't feel sorry for me!!! Meditation saved my life....If I had not found AYP I would still be addicted to methadone, still be smoking a quarter ounce of marijuana every day, would still be beating people up when they piss me off, still be fighting with my wife about every little thing etc etc etc....Please don't feel sorry for me...I have never been better thanks to the Advanced Yoga Practices. And yeah, I'm still searching....I am seeking nothing but to cease seeking.
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
Well here's hoping you "wake up" a thousand more times, cuase if you think you are at the "end" of the journey you got another thing coming! There is no end to THIS journey. Best of luck.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Mar 02 2009 10:43:55 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 12:19:54 PM
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i am rally sad that you feel this way nathalie, i can't add on anything to what the guys up there said except wishing you well and god's kindness in your life.
take it easy on yourself meditation is definitely smthg not worth getting that much angry of.
and please share with us what you have been practicing and for how long and if you are experiencing any specific symptoms in your body you would like to mention or any health problems or addictions.
we would like to hear that maybe we can offer some good advice on the subject bcz many of us here me included have benefited tons due to deep meditation and other advanced yoga practices and we would like the same for you and everyone as well.
maybe all you need is a little nudge from another practice to spice up your spiritual evolution or maybe consistency on specific ones or a little change in diet.
kindest regards,
Ananda
p.s: the lessons on this site are for free and you can check them here:
http://www.aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html
http://www.aypsite.org/TantraDirectory.html
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 2:11:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by natalie
i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything. I did believe in it till i tried it. it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
What are you doing here Natalie ? 
We all knew you would end up posting on here eventually, we have worked so hard for this day and finally it happened. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2009 : 7:55:03 PM
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I think Natalie is just trying to troll for trouble. You won't find it here.
Nobody is trying to make money here; most people are experiencing benefits from meditation, and I don't know about others, but I'm not searching for anything! Already found it.
And yet, meditation enabled me to keep a job I love even though it is chock full of stress. It all bounces off me like raindrops hitting a rock, thanks to meditation.
So do you have any stress in your life you would like to get rid of?
Kinda sounds like it. But if you are not interested in meditation, that's fine too. No big deal.
As Carson said, nobody is making any money here. So what could our motivation be? Something to think about. . . |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2009 : 11:35:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think Natalie is just trying to troll for trouble.
Nothing wrong with that 
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I don't know about others, but I'm not searching for anything! Already found it.
Yes! I was searching for something when I came here. The beauty of this practice is that you can find it. Inside. Then the searching stops and the journey begins...
I was a zombie for many years. AYP brought me back from the dead. Meditation ended many years of depression, and pulled me OUT of lifelong introversion. Yes, I said "OUT of"... I know it contradicts a common misconception about meditation.
That's why I do it.
With Love
cosmic |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 1:04:04 PM
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Natalie is right. Meditation doesn't work. I don't think she is a troll. it is too easy to call people trolls when you don't agree with them.
Meditation is basically just falling asleep and coming to again. All the so called spiritual experiences that people have i have concluded are nothing more than self hypnosis. and hypnosis doesn't work on everyone.
And saying that meditation has helped you to be less stressed in stressful situations is more like a self fulfilling prophecy based on affirmations and actually calming yourself in stressful situations. It is not the product of meditation.
Meditation is nothing but a substitute for sleep. So if you want some peace, take a nap instead. Then come back to the real world. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 1:32:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
and hypnosis doesn't work on everyone.
oh I'm afraid it does, it's a natural state that we humans use every day. Hypnosis is simply a change of state which can take the form of light trance, to flat out hallucination and narcolepsy. You are in those states most of your waking life...........you know when you are driving and miss a junction because you were somewhere else, when you watch a film, make love, feel blind panic, at the doctors. Virtually everywhere you are in a trance of one sort or another.
I can definitely confirm that meditation is not hypnosis. The reason I can confirm that is that I can do self hypnosis and practise hypnosis on clients. I do this often. Meditation is entirely different. The essence of meditation appears to be an altered state, but it is all about concentrating on something from within the state.
Your assumptions about the stress relieving properties might have some validation though. I am always interested to see that many people on this forum using meditation as a crutch for getting out of a situation (much the same way people drink or take drugs).
My thinking is that meditation is something you can use when you are comfortable with who you are and want to investigate further. Thats not to say it does not have beneficial effects on people who are trying to get out of bad situations, just that it should not be relied on to achieve that.
Bit like becoming a virtuoso with an instrument. First become a competent player, then an artist, finally you go beyond mere competence and put something into the performance that cannot be defined by pure skill. I think this is where meditation performs the best. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 1:44:01 PM
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how about saying it helped me stay in the experience of bilssful waves and a lot of joy and a beautiful sense of giving during the process of all daily activities plus experiencing some of them so called siddhis every now and then, is all that self hypnosis as well and even so let's suppose it is all hypnosis i am very happy to experience it and i would like for eveyrone to experience this beautiful and very healthy hypnosis which science and all health advisers stand in support off.
as for your case, you've been here longer than i am yet you still come back to these forums... i really wonder why.
can you honestly say that you have given deep meditation an honest shot the time necessary, cutting out on certain bad habbits if you have any bcz caffeine, cigarets, screwed diets and screwed up sexual life styles, alcohol, drugs... do mess up everything plus let us not forget the part of lots of expectations.
and by the way science doesn't agree with what you and nathalie have said, and there a lot of other researches then the one presented by Anthem so where's your stand on that as well?
i quote Byron Katie via brother Carson the way that Christy did by asking you: would you rather be right, or would you rather be enlightened? |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 2:01:42 PM
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Meditation is a tool. Some people use it to get off drugs. Some use it to be more loving. Some use it to escape from reality.
For every tool, there is a person using it.
Self-fulfilling prophecy applies to everything in Life.
With Love
cosmic |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 3:46:08 PM
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| Yes, it really doesn't matter how much you believe or Feel that meditation has made you better. That is just self hypnosis. I am not interested in self hypnosis. I am interested in reality. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2009 : 8:29:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Yes, it really doesn't matter how much you believe or Feel that meditation has made you better. That is just self hypnosis. I am not interested in self hypnosis. I am interested in reality.
do you have scientific proof for this statement?
Golf and life
in golf some are natural born golfers, naturally have a swing and they never search for one their entire life. No swing coach, just play golf. Then there are people who play their whole life and play crappy and get irratted all the time. Never really get better and they wonder why. So they go to instructors, do what the instructor says for a half hour, think they understand, their commitment wears off, etc.. they run around in circles their whole life and that is why most golfers shoot nowhere near par. Then there are the people, no natural swing, so they go to instructor and surrender to the instructions, surrender to practicing, surrender to evolving every day, over time they get better.
brother Gumpi, until we surrender to something beyond our "intelligence" we will run in circles. I have used many methods by many gurus, golf and "yoga" jump from one to the other, etc.... there comes a time when we decide to do what it takes or accept runnning around in circles. and if you accept that then just enjoy it.
anyways brother, once one starts to realize they can allow the mind to go still while doing a formal meditation, then what is the difference between letting the mind be still while sitting, or while doing action? Really, what is the difference? have you ever had the mind be more still, have you ever seen the miracle of the world/existence? why cannot we do that all the time? Personally I believe we can and once that happens sitting meditation may no longer be needed, or maybe done just for fun, or life is just fun. Brother, there are answers for you inside of you, maybe just sitting down and letting thoughts go. Jesus said "be still and know I am" so you dont want to use a mantra, then dont, what is wrong with just being?
that is my .02, I pray you find what is for you
my best to you
with love
brother neil
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Edited by - brother neil on Mar 04 2009 8:55:57 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 12:32:14 AM
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that's a beautiful post brother neil, thk you for sharing.
and gumpi would you plz mind answering my questions brother, i am here to help you not to criticize you.
and again you should ask your self honestly whould you rather be right or enlightened?
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natalie
South Africa
3 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 12:39:16 AM
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| wow, i see by my comments on meditation , and my experience i have upset a number of people.........that was not intended. |
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natalie
South Africa
3 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 12:46:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by natalie
i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything. I did believe in it till i tried it. it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
What are you doing here Natalie ?
We all knew you would end up posting on here eventually, we have worked so hard for this day and finally it happened.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 07:40:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by natalie
wow, i see by my comments on meditation , and my experience i have upset a number of people.........that was not intended.
Strange, but I really don't see anyone upset with your post.
Did you actually read all the replies?
They were just trying to give you answers to your random comments.
Maybe you were expecting everyone would get upset with your post? |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 09:50:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by natalie
i do agree meditation is the biggest load of hog wash that was ever created, i have read books and books and have tried it, dont tell me to keep trying it will come i have done everything. I did believe in it till i tried it. it is total crap and as far as i am concerned it is a money making racket.......I am more than convinced that these "people" that claim what they have experienced, be it past life, physic etc.......it is all dreams that they believe are real.....they cannot seperate fantasy from reality........
You people must seriously wake up it is such a joke. You like "meditation" zombies....I do now find it so hestrical......
But then again i actually feel very sorry for you guys as you are obviously searching for something in your life. So you believe in your dreams..
It is a pity because their are many people out there that actually believe i should know as i was one of them. Thank goodness i woke up.
Ha! Ha! HA! This is the funniest thing I've ever read! Because if it's not funny, it's sad. Really sad. There's so much anger in the world, riots in Tibet, the land of peace. It is the time of depression and anger, I'm afraid...
Dear, meditation is not a money making scam. I don't know what's upsetting you. Perhaps you haven't met a good spiritual friend. I learned meditation from my grandfather, who learned it from his father, and so on. Over the years, I've met many yogis and monks. No one has EVER asked me for money. The info on this site is free for your use.
I come to this site to provide the little help that I can, and I've been helped tremendously by other wise people posting intelligent responses to my many misconceptions. This is a great blessing.
Actually, meditation is about waking up from the dream of your negative emotions that afflict your mind, thoughts and actions. It is not about mystical woo woo, and flying into another dimension. It is merely about peace and happiness.
Based on your response, you are not awake. Your anger exposes your ignorance. Rest assured that there are methods in this world and great teachers who, if you are lucky enough to meet them and attend them, you can find the means to escape from the cycle of your sufferings.
Don't be so sure you have read the correct books or met the right teachings. It's clear to me that you have not. Be careful about denigrating the practices of good seekers. Karma is real. You are creating very negative circumstances for yourself.
Love,
TMS |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 09:56:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Natalie is right. Meditation doesn't work. I don't think she is a troll. it is too easy to call people trolls when you don't agree with them.
Meditation is basically just falling asleep and coming to again. All the so called spiritual experiences that people have i have concluded are nothing more than self hypnosis. and hypnosis doesn't work on everyone.
And saying that meditation has helped you to be less stressed in stressful situations is more like a self fulfilling prophecy based on affirmations and actually calming yourself in stressful situations. It is not the product of meditation.
Meditation is nothing but a substitute for sleep. So if you want some peace, take a nap instead. Then come back to the real world.
Not for me. When I meditate, I get a jolt of energy. The jolt can be so strong that I need to take a break for a few days or have a beer. My trouble is balancing active kundalini shakti with having a normal life where I interact in the political world. Try to get your head around that. If all you are doing is falling asleep, then you certainly are not meditating. You have to tighten up; sit in lotus position with anjali mudra. Keep your eyes open. Maintain in the moment body awareness.
The real world you speak of, your thoughts, is not the real world I wake up to in meditation. Trust that. Don't let yourself get lost in samsara...
Love,
TMS |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 09:59:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Yes, it really doesn't matter how much you believe or Feel that meditation has made you better. That is just self hypnosis. I am not interested in self hypnosis. I am interested in reality.
No your not. Your interested in your thoughts, your habits, what's comfortable and familiar. This is your karma. You are in samsara mind, doubting, frustrated, jumping to conclusions, closed mind. I wish you more...
Love,
TMS |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 11:21:39 AM
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Yes, actually i am. Who isn't interested in their own thoughts? You are a clear example of someone that is. What you call samsara, i call life with cause and effect minus metaphysical speculation based on theories with no evidence to back them up, including so called past life experiences.
There is a reason why doubt exists. it helps you to discriminate properly and not get sucked into bogus speculative theories about life. So if you are pooh poohing doubt perhaps you should think again.
Yes i am frustrated at having wasted the last 8 years meditating when i could have been getting on with my life like other normal people. You say meditation is about peace and happiness but i don't see that anywhere in any persons that meditate. If anything they seem like emotionally blunt selfish people with huge egos.
I was not closed minded. I did the techniques and they failed. Now i am more open minded than before.
I don't jump to conclusions about meditation. I have been there, done that, worn the t-shirt and it failed to come up with the goods. That is why i say that anyone that thinks they are getting anything out of meditation is engaging their mind in self hypnosis. Brains are highly complex things and most people suffer from gullibility and lack of critical thinking, which opens them up to powerful suggestions, especially when combined with dream like states.
I don't fall asleep during meditation usually but i have in the past. The ability to not fall asleep is an easy process of awareness. But it doesn't produce what people claim it does - some kind of thought free state. It is a state of alpha brainwaves combined with beta brainwaves and no different to day dreaming. Experiences like OBEs and precognition can occur in the deeper theta/alpha states with accompanying hypnagogic phenomena. So if you want spiritual experiences you need to relax so deeply your brainwaves are in theta and this sometimes means you can fall into a temporary sleep of unconsciousness and come to again. But not everyone has spiritual experiences in theta or hypnagogic phenomena, which proves that the brain is producing these states and differs from individual to individual. Hence the likilyhood that most of those experiences are self induced through self hypnosis and not caused by anything else. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 11:39:11 AM
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yet you keep on escaping from my questions dear gumpi, guess that proves smthg don't you think
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 11:45:31 AM
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Hi gumpi...
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Yes i am frustrated at having wasted the last 8 years meditating when i could have been getting on with my life like other normal people.
If this is truly how you feel then why are you here on the AYP forums at all? Why aren't you "getting on with your life" right NOW and why are you wasting MORE time talking here? You aren't going to convince anyone here that their practices aren't worthwhile, so if you REALLY think that they accomplish nothing for you, then why don't you MOVE ON already? Sorry if this seems harsh, but I find you saying that none of us are peaceful or happy and we are all just emotionally blunt selfish people, pretty harsh. And I don't believe that you actually feel this way anyways.....if you did you wouldn't be here talking about it. I see your post as simple trolling.
Love,
Carson
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 12:32:53 PM
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| hi nathalie, and don't worry no one got upset from your post but on the other hand sadly gumpi's post did and will upset a lot of people. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 1:00:00 PM
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Natalie,
Welcome to the forum.
I understand.
And yet my own experience is the polar opposite of yours. Let me explain what I think is going on, and I'm going to give you an explanation that that doesn't put the blame on you, because it doesn't belong there.
Some people do wonderfully with meditation. I was one of those. Carson is one of those, and there are others here. I don't think we're deluding ourselves that is is working for us; any more than you are deluding yourself that it isn't working for you. Both of these perspectives are real and make sense.
I remember the early days after I started meditating -- the great enthusiasm I had. As I saw it, everyone just had to try it... This was going to save the world....! And I did get some people to try it. And it didn't do much for them. They thought maybe I was a fool, deluding myself, getting onto a bandwagon, and I in turn thought, hey, maybe they were doing it wrong or maybe they didn't give it enough time or...
How could this be happening? I think it is bio-individuality, simply: brains are different. Some people dance well, others not so well. Some play music well, others not, etc. Some people dance well on the first day, for others it takes years. Some people, truth be told, can never learn to dance or play music well. Genes proably play a huge role, and all sorts of factors.
Let me assure you, and you too, my friend Gumpi, that, when it is working, the effects of meditation are absolutely real. Science is discovering some of them, proving some of them objectively, but the science is coarse so far. In time, more will be clear. Perhaps we will be able to see and understand exactly what is happening for someone while the meditate... how 'far' they are going, etc.
But I think we will find that it actually isn't working for everyone. Then there is the question of whether they tried long enough. I have no idea of how we can know whether a person hasn't tried long enough, or it just isn't going to work for them.
You have made an effort and it doesn't seem to 'work'. And people say you should expect nothing. Well, I don't think that's entirely fair to you, my friend. Why should you expect nothing? It is supposed to be productive, isn't it? Would you be standing out for an hour on one foot every day for no reason, no yield, no product at all? No, it's supposed to be productive. ( There is a catch because a 'greed' for productivity can inhibit a relaxation that can be good for the process... but that's just a catch, an irony, a 'paradox of instruction'; it's still supposed to be productive.)
There are systems in place to prevent early discouragement. Some of them are to tell you that it is going to work anyway eventually. Are we sure that they will work eventually for any given individual? I'm not... Do we have evidence for that? Honestly, do we?
Natalie, for all your frustration, I am sorry. Don't blame yourself or the world of meditation. Don't take any burden on yourself about this. You tried it. I don't know how long you tried it, and whether you should try it further. I can't know. It's up to you whether you think you should try it further. However if you tell us how long you tried, people might give you perspective. For some people, they had to try a while before they got some payoff.
Hatha Yoga, by the way, does a lot of good for most people.
Enjoy AYP,
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 05 2009 2:59:31 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2009 : 1:12:43 PM
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Ananda,
I can honestly say that i have given meditation a decent shot and it has done nothing but give me feelings of relaxation. Now, just because it delivers relaxation and that is worthwhile, it doesn't mean it produces all the so called "spiritual" experiences. Hence i will say it again: spiritual experiences are self hypnosis.
You say you get "siddhis" sometimes. Why only sometimes? And what are these siddhis you get? If you have siddhis can you prove them?
If your "waves of bliss" aren't self hypnosis, what do you put them down to? god? And where is the evidence of God? It is lacking i'm afraid.
By all means continue to hypnotise yourself if it makes you feel good. Who wouldn't want that?
Enlightenment does not exist. Point to one, just one, enlightened person and i will change my mind perhaps. So no i will search for the truth, not "enlightenment".
The scientific support of meditation is actually not very much at the moment and it seems to change a lot as well. The "relaxation response" is something very basic that can be gotten from tension relaxation of the bodily muscles, simple breathing exercises, and sleep states. Mainstream psychology includes these techniques for helping people with stress and anxiety, panic disorders. On the other hand, yoga seems to be about taking these basic procedures further, into self hypnotic practices involving imaginary parts of subtle anatomy called "chakras" and "kundalini", some ill-defined 4th state of consciousness called turiya, which is equated with something called the "superconscious" state, objective-subjective perceptions of light and sound and so on. All these things really have no basis in actual psychology and usually end up being studied by independent researchers with an interest in them and hence become alternative psychology.
Studies of brainwaves with regard to meditative states are flimsy and open ended, based more on subjective accounts than objective reality. Since every person's brain is different it stands to reason that any subjective experience a person will have in a sleep like state (alpha and theta brainwaves) will vary markedly from one person to the next and that most if not all of the experiences associated with those brain waves are actually produced through some type of self hypnosis or suggestion of an experience prior to meditation. The nature of hypnosis is unknown at the present time and it does produce effects that are objective but to say that these effects can be reproduced by everybody is not true. Likewise, even though everybody has beta, alpha, theta, and delta brain waves all the time with some fluctuations of predominate brainwave frequencies, it doesn't mean the subjective experiences associated with those frequencies will be reproducable or the same for every person.
Most of the experiences people on this forum report sound like classical cases of hypnosis. People even say that they levitate! What is more likely - that people can break the laws of physics without even knowing how they do it, or that a person's state of concsiousness is giving them the impression that they are actually levitating? I take the latter viewpoint, since there is absolutely ZERO verifiable objective evidence of human levitation.
Likewise, reports of experiencing kundalini and chakra energies in the body fall into the same category of hypnotic suggestion. You see, the thing about hypnosis is that to the hypnotized person something unreal can become very real. But to the un-hypnotized person put through the exact same procedures there is nothing there.
I don't come here to intentionally upset people. But sometimes people need a kick in the backside and to wake up to reality, and if i am the person around here that has that job i will gladly take it.
Notice that i posted about lowering the resting pulse. I got one reply that contained very little information. The idea behind that post was to find out if meditation and yoga can actually produce an effect of slowing the heart rate lower than its baseline resting rate. It appears to be the case that either nobody knows or if they do know they can't answer. I wonder why. It would be valuable information for every person on the planet to know it is possible to reduce metabolism through meditation and yoga practice. Instead there are anecdotal, parapsychological accounts of yoga masters being able to accomplish things like suspended animation! Where is the truth in all this bull? If these things exist i want to know for real if they exist. I haven't made up my mind because people claim these things are real and i have yet to see any evidence of them. That is why it is frustrating coming to forums like these where people claim to know these things are real without providing evidence for them or explaining how they can happen. |
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Why I don't believe in meditation
