|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 12:17:06 PM
|
I have some challenges with reverting back to the old egoic patterns, often right after meditation. It seems as if my ego is saying, "you're an open wound now, act crazy to cover up!". I feel content, but then something triggers the "don't be this vulnerable"
button and I fall back into old patterns...anxiety, and such.
How do I move through this? There are times when I avoid meditaion because it makes me too "vulnerable" afterwards... how do I
stay consistent with contentment? I feel all loving, then I get hit
with the real world, and I revert back even harder...I want to change this... |
Edited by - AYPforum on Jan 23 2009 12:44:00 PM |
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 1:02:15 PM
|
Hi Stasuzi
Welcome to the forum 
In order to advise you better, would you mind telling us what kind of practises you are engaged in?
Is it AYP Deep meditation? How long have you been meditating?
What is the duration of your sitting session?
|
 |
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 9:10:03 PM
|
Thank you Katrine - I have been soul searching for many years-but really only as a mental concept from the mind...it wasn't until several months ago that I felt this "spontaneous awakening". I haven't meditated much in my life (I'm 40 now) but have always felt spiritual, so I thought.
Deep meditation - well I can get there but its difficult to sustain
because of the "chatter box head". I am finding great comfort in
Yoga spirit. I don't do too much hatha stuff, although I have been
quite athletic (in shape) over the years.
I have awakened to an involuntary energy that I'm learning to be called "Kundalini, kriyas" or "automatic yoga". This energy is very strong and I have been able to passively let it dance, draw and make very strong, full body movements without my conscious interupption.
This new found energy is outrageous... I want to learn. I must know more- there's no turning back now...I have tapped into something beyond my five senses. It's ironic that I feel more connected to the Universe than ever, and yet I feel terribly alone...there's no one around me that I can talk to about this who would truely understand this involuntary energy. |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 06:08:37 AM
|
Hi Stasuzi
Thank you for sharing
quote:
This new found energy is outrageous... I want to learn. I must know more- there's no turning back now...I have tapped into something beyond my five senses. It's ironic that I feel more connected to the Universe than ever, and yet I feel terribly alone...there's no one around me that I can talk to about this who would truely understand this involuntary energy.
Then you've come to the right place
Yoganis lessons, books....and this forum...is a wellspring of relevant information, guiding principles and fellow meditators that come from all kinds of backgrounds from all over the world and all contribute with precious sharings and help along the way. So...Stasuzi....in this way...you are not alone! Many here will answer questions and many here will also learn from your own journey when you share like you did above. So thank you for being here
When we speak of AYP Deep Meditation, what we are talking about is a very simple, effortless meditation practise. See Yoganis lesson here:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Deep Meditation is not something to "sustain"....on the contrary.....all we do...(which is almost a non-doing...it is so simple) is sit down to meditate twice a day consistantly.....and then we go out and live an active life. The rest takes care of itself - believe it or not
There are a range of other AYP practises too, but the chore practise...on which everything else is based ...... is Deep Meditation. After a little while, Spinal Breathing Pranayama is added. Se this lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
In Deep Meditation we cultivate inner silence, and with Spinal Breathing Pranayama we cultivate ecstatic conductivity (Kundalini). These two together form the basis of self-realization. All is within you, Stasuzi, and the energy that is awakened in you is a wonderful milestone towards realizing the precious fullness of every moment. See this lesson:
quote:
http://www.aypsite.org/35.html
In order to progress safely, a very important aspect of AYP is what we call Self-Pacing. It is crucial to implement this....you have already noticed the power of the energy.....it is not something to be afraid of, but neither is it something to play with unwisely. So self-pacing is essential. See this lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/38.html
When inner silence begins to surface as an inner, steady calmness between meditation times, Self-Inquiry follows naturally. Before this, it will mostly be mental analysis (as you have noticed)...and this leads nowhere...one tends to wander around in circles
quote:
It's ironic that I feel more connected to the Universe than ever, and yet I feel terribly alone
Yes....
The aloneness.....it is also a longing...yes? This pull towards that which you feel connected to.....we call it Bhakti. Though it can be experienced as....almost painful....it is at the same time the most important factor.....without this inner longing to connect to our inner source.....we tend to stay lazily stuck in the world of the mind. See this lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/12.html
Hope this is of some help, Stasuzi. All information you need will be found in Yoganis lessons. On the left side of this screen you can click your way through the Key lessons. But really...it is a good idea to start from lesson 1 and then just happily read along. You will enjoy it If you are interested in special topics...go to the index register here:
http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html
And please post any questions you might have. Many here can help.
Yogani ends every lesson with: The Guru Is In You.
And so it is 
Good luck with experiencing it directly!
|
|
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:47:48 AM
|
Katrine,
Thank you so much for your time in this! I did read on some of the links you added - very helpful!
You know, since this seems to be considered a spontaneous awakening, I'm not sure what stage
this is. I understand that people spend years in meditaion... I don't know if this is the goal
of meditaion, or a stepping stone. I think there's more to It...the ultimate stillness...but then,
this energy seems to have a mind of Its own, as if It were giving me messages. In fact, I have been able to develope a sort of understanding with It. In other words, I can actually understand It as
if It were giving me a message. For example, during meditaion...my arms will flow and do its passive movements, but a few times, my mind will stray and my hands will move vigorously in front of my face,
as if to say, "focus". I don't do this conscoiusly, in fact my mind is chattering...this is bizarre to me. There's two of me...this mental mind that chatters away and this "It" that literally uses my own physical hands to snap me back into meditaion...my hands form to the sides of my temple as if they were "horse blinders" - thats the position it takes when my mental chatter goes on too long - is this normal? I feel weird to even talk about this - it's far too bizarre to tell a friend or such - they just wouldn't understand. My husband has the general idea of what I'm going through, but I don't speak of such strange details. It also has given me other "understandings" like symbolism and hand signs with definate meaning. It can speak to me. Am I going crazy?
Where do I take this? What is my goal past this point? |
|
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 11:53:34 AM
|
| By the way, my name is Stacey! |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:39:52 PM
|
Hi Stacy and welcome to the AYP forums! I know you addressed your post to Katrine, but I am the local "chatterbox/overposter" so you can pretty much expect me to barge in on all converations . Hope you don't mind, and please feel free to say that you do if you do!
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
You know, since this seems to be considered a spontaneous awakening, I'm not sure what stage
this is.
Doesn't matter what "stage" you are in...there really are no "stages". Everyone unfolds differently and according to God's will. It is happening for you as it should and it is no accident that you are here at AYP now. Try not to worry about where you are along the journey cause the journey never ends. So just suffice it to say that you are on your way. That's all you need to know.
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
I understand that people spend years in meditaion... I don't know if this is the goal
of meditaion, or a stepping stone. I think there's more to It...the ultimate stillness...but then,
this energy seems to have a mind of Its own, as if It were giving me messages.
Like I said above, everyone unfolds differently and at different paces according to their karmic obstructions (and other factors too I'm sure) so don't worry about measuring your progress based on how other people's journeys are unfolding, or seemingly unfolding. What you are experiencing IS a stepping stone, not an end goal....there is no end to this journey. Not even in death so....time to cultivate some inner silence to match your overactive energies. Yes, kundalini energy can seem to have a "mind all it's own", but this can get out of control quite quickly if you don't have the right balance between inner silence and ecstatic conductivity and overload symptoms may soon arise. (ecstatic conductivity is what we call the rise of the kundalini energies) I second Katrine's advice in saying you should start a twice daily practice of Deep Meditation as I'm sure this will help to smooth out your spiritual transition.
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
In fact, I have been able to develope a sort of understanding with It. In other words, I can actually understand It as
if It were giving me a message. For example, during meditaion...my arms will flow and do its passive movements, but a few times, my mind will stray and my hands will move vigorously in front of my face,
as if to say, "focus". I don't do this conscoiusly, in fact my mind is chattering...this is bizarre to me. There's two of me...this mental mind that chatters away and this "It" that literally uses my own physical hands to snap me back into meditaion...my hands form to the sides of my temple as if they were "horse blinders" - thats the position it takes when my mental chatter goes on too long - is this normal? I feel weird to even talk about this - it's far too bizarre to tell a friend or such - they just wouldn't understand. My husband has the general idea of what I'm going through, but I don't speak of such strange details. It also has given me other "understandings" like symbolism and hand signs with definate meaning. It can speak to me. Am I going crazy?
Where do I take this? What is my goal past this point?
Well Stacy.....I suggest taking a big deep breath and slowly letting all these worries and fears out with your exhale. Maybe even do this a couple of times. haha. You don't need to be worried. What you are descibing is likely what we call "automatic yoga". This is when the body (or energies within the body) feel the need to put itself in a certain "pose" that helps the purification process. Don't think about it, (as much as possible) don't worry about it, just let things happen as they do. They are happening for a reason and you don't need to know why. Just suffice it to say this needs to happen. You are not going crazy, in fact you are very lucky to be where you are. What comes next is a stable set of practices. I suggest AYPractices because they worked miracles for me personally and many others here on the forums as well, but if you resonate with a different set of practices that is fine too. Here at AYP we break things down to simple steps that can be added on at the appropriate times giving each practitioner an added aspect of personal control that isn't there in many other systems of yoga. In most other systems there needs to be an external guru to keep you in check. At AYP "the guru is in you" and that is why we stress "self-pacing" so much. And I think that the first lesson you should review would be the one on self-pacing as you may run into overload issues early on since you have already had a "spontaneous awakening" and are likely a little imbalanced in the "inner silence to ecstatic conductivity" ratio and may need to keep a careful eye on symptoms. Please feel free to ask any questions you need to here on the forum...there are no dumb questions and we all already love you for who you are so....feel right at home here. Best of luck!
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:06:58 PM
|
Hi Carson
quote:
I know you addressed your post to Katrine, but I am the local "chatterbox/overposter" so you can pretty much expect me to barge in on all converations.
*****laughing***
Your post is great, Carson, so please keep "barging in"
Stacey:
Carson got all the main points down.
Intuitions and insights increase with the rise of ecstatic conductivity. But the source itself....inner silence/awareness.....is what is at the crux of all matter.....so cultivating it is always the first priority.
Therefore, to start with Deep Meditation is essential. And like Carson says....it is needed to balance the energy.
Good luck, Stacey |
|
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:16:22 PM
|
OMG! Thank you! You guys are wonderful and so responsive! You know, I keep doing this automatic yoga thing and I keep wanting to find meaning in it... but ok...let it be. It's doing something beyond my comprehension and I think the mere "figuring it out" is whats driving me nuts... probably because theres no rationale to this...it's beyond my five senses... and I'm over here trying to find the science in it. I'm also letting go of toxic people in my life at the same time. I'm finally putting down this "empty plate" I've been carrying around and this has forced a tremendous awakening.
It's been overwhelming this whole time because I haven't found anyone until NOW. Thank you for being there Carson and Katrine and anyone else - please jump in!
Lots of Love, Stacey  |
|
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:35:23 PM
|
About the Deep Meditation....
How do I achieve that exactly? I mean, do I stay focused on something in particular...like breathing I suppose, or the "I AM" mantra? How long should I do this for? I can usually sit for 30 to 60 minutes in the morning. What am I focusing on while in Deep Meditation?
|
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:47:50 PM
|
Hi Stacy,
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
OMG! Thank you! You guys are wonderful and so responsive!
You are welcome, but we are all the same, so you are just as wonderful as we are! And no worries about being responsive, sometimes (like I said above) some of us (well, me mostly ) can be a little overzealous with our postings so don't worry, almost all questions will be answered here pretty quickly. (at least by me )
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
You know, I keep doing this automatic yoga thing and I keep wanting to find meaning in it...
This is very natural Stacy and don't be concerned about it. With a little bit of extra inner silence you will soon find things like this much easier to let go of. Believe me when I say that I have been where you are. And still am many days. We ALL struggle, at least to a degree, with issues of trying to figure things out with the mind, but what you will soon find is that these answers are never satisfying. Only real personal experience found through your sadhana will fill that "need to know" void in your life. At least this is how it is unfolding for this soul and I'm sure at least a few others. You will see I'm sure.
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
but ok...let it be. It's doing something beyond my comprehension and I think the mere "figuring it out" is whats driving me nuts...
Nail on the head Stacy. Mind understanding mind doesn't do anything for anyone. Let it go.
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
probably because theres no rationale to this...it's beyond my five senses... and I'm over here trying to find the science in it. I'm also letting go of toxic people in my life at the same time. I'm finally putting down this "empty plate" I've been carrying around and this has forced a tremendous awakening.
I love the "empty plate" analogy. Truly beautiful. As is your awakening.
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
It's been overwhelming this whole time because I haven't found anyone until NOW. Thank you for being there Carson and Katrine and anyone else - please jump in!
Believe me my friend, you are not alone here. I felt the same way as you for quite a while....alone with noone to share this journey with. AYP forums can help with that. But also remember that these feelings of "need for connection" can be seen as "attachments" as well and should be transcended at some point also. But no need to try and do everything at once. Use the forums as Satsang. It helps. Best of luck...you are doing fine.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:49:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by stasuzi
About the Deep Meditation....
How do I achieve that exactly? I mean, do I stay focused on something in particular...like breathing I suppose, or the "I AM" mantra? How long should I do this for? I can usually sit for 30 to 60 minutes in the morning. What am I focusing on while in Deep Meditation?
Did you read the lesson linked to by Katrine here? http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
This explains the AYP Deep Meditation process we use. |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:52:24 PM
|
Hi Stacey
quote:
About the Deep Meditation....
How do I achieve that exactly?
Do not think about acheiving anything. AYP Deep Mediation is a simple procedure, that is all. It is an effortless technique. You simply follow - to the point - the direction given in this lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Read it again if you already read it....it can be read many times....anytime you wonder if you do it right........come back and read it....and simply do it. Twice a day. Like you brush your teeth |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 1:53:34 PM
|
Carson.....gee...you're quick!
We cross posted |
|
|
|
stasuzi
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:05:02 PM
|
I will read more on Deep meditation - thanks guys! Have you guys experienced this too I take it? I mean, the actual automatic stuff?
And yes, I do understand the attachment thing...boy I have alot to learn and practice with that!
Thanks for the motivation! |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 2:21:45 PM
|
Hi Stacy,
Yes, I have experienced some automatic yoga myself. Usually it takes the form of asanas I don't normally practice,(especially the "seal of yoga" [yoga mudra?] posture while in the middle of sitting in siddhasana and certain forward and back bends) "forced" mudras and bandhas(specifically kechari, sambhavi, uddiyanna and mulabhanda) and automatic jalandhara (in a couple of different ways, not all of which are explained in the AYP writings). But like the name "automatic" yoga suggests, these are automatic and any amount of effort to "achieve" this is going to put unneccessary obstructions in your way that need to be purified later. So let things happen as they do and try your best not to think about them or attach too much significance to them....you may find that after a while of practicing AYP, that these things start to happen less and less frequently...this doesn't mean that you are doing anything wrong or going backwards instead of forwards...these things all happen in phases and we move in and out of them on our journey as needed. Just focus on cultivating some inner silence and all will be as it should. You are doing well.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 26 2009 4:19:15 PM |
|
|
|
Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 7:40:54 PM
|
| Another way to look at this automatic stuff, god is playing with you, giving sometimes the hint that the one in real control can show it to you. The more you let go, the more it moves on it's own. It already moves on it's own, but the noticing of this comes mostly in times of too much energy or staying witness of what is hapening including the own body. Yeah, it is funny if your finger starts showing you forcefully where you should put your attention on =P Every atom could show you any moment it's -beyond understanding- aliveness, but humbly everything remains on it's position only for you, making the perfect illusion of this ordinary moment with unending blissfull depth. Just wating to be noticed by you. And this, as strange as it is, can be cultivated through practices which were mentioned above. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 08:14:10 AM
|
Hi Stacey,
It's quite common with automatic movements, but fewer have a lot of them, like you and... me. I'm a bit like you. Since 3 years on the journey, I've had lots of automatic movements. If you use the forum search engine and search on "automatic movements" from the member emc you will find several post where I have contributed with my experiences during the years.
For me, it is difficult to determine where automatic movements go over to everyday stillness in action. The boundaries between those concepts seem to become more and more blurry as the witness awakens. As Holy mentions.. it's already moving on it's own!
I actually found myself in a conversation with some friends about this "automacy". I asked them if they ever had experienced driving the car and suddenly found themselves several miles away, already headed a long way towards the destination without having really "been there" consciously driving? They all recognized the amazed feeling when "coming back" to driving... like "Am I already here? How the hell did I get here so fast?" They laughed and said. "yes, that autopilote is on sometimes, but it's scary - I grab the wheel harder after that." Well, I see it the other way around. That autopilote is always driving the car whether I believe it's me driving consciously or if I drift away in thoughts. It obviously doesn't matter! The car is driven anyway. I get more relaxed, and trust more. A few days ago I found myself driving 1 km on a narrow, very curvy road, with many cars parked on the side, and the whole distance I was totally absorbed in fixing with the radio channels, staring down all the time, leaning over the radio in the dark. The hand that was left on the wheel took it all the way down the road without hitting anyone or anything - I didn't even look at the road once. I don't even think about such things happening anylonger... I don't see it as a "minor miracle" or any special event. It's everyday living, trusting stillness in action. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Ego Relapse & Vulnerabilty
