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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 08:53:26 AM
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| While meditating last night it came to me that thoughts are energy from your consciousness. I guess dreams would be unconscious energy. And really everything is energy of some kind (E=MC2). This morning I googled thoughts and came up with lots of answers that did not seem right to me, and none said they were energy. When you speak your brain sends electrical signals (energy/thought)to your face and lungs to form words to speak. Thoughts can inspire, hurt, elate, shape nations, take us to the unknown, on and on. Even in quantum physics it is known that thoughts can alter experiments. How, if they are not energy? I know you can measure brain activity, is this thought? But can you, say weigh thought? prove thought? Any thoughts on this? shredder |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 09:03:54 AM
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Yep you have it.. it's all energy movement. It's only the mind that attaches labels to the energy movement based on memory and imagination and label them as sad, happy, anger, fear..
I have talked about it a bit here : Mind Filters...
Cant give you references to research on this. But the book that comes to mind would be Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 10:52:01 AM
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Ok...so, thoughts are simply the movement of energy right? And emotions/feelings/whatever is simply our mind attaching labels to these thoughts based on past experience and bias correct? Then where do thoughts originate? Not trying to question whether or not you are right or not here Shanti, I believe the same as you stated above, BUT I still have a bit of a desire to understand where thoughts would come from in this line of thinking. They obviously must come from somewhere independent of our minds then right?
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 21 2009 11:22:24 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:13:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Ok...so, thoughts are simply the movement of energy right? And emotions/feelings/whatever is simply our mind attaching labels to these thoughts based on past experience and bias correct? Then where do thoughts originate? Not trying to question whether or not you are right or not here Shanti, I believe the same as you stated above, BUT I still have a bit of a desire to understand where thoughts would come from in this line of thinking. They obviously must comew from somehwere independent of our minds then right?
Love,
Carson
From inner silence, the source of it all?
Just a thought  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:21:47 AM
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Hi YIL,
quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
From inner silence, the source of it all?
Then I guess the next logical question would be "Why? Why would the Source be putting thoughts out there for us to either attach to or not attach to? Why wouldn't it just allow is to be in silence like we should be? If the Source is the "source" of all thought, then there must be some greater purpose to "having thoughts" other then to just release them right? We must be meant to be learning from them if this is the case right?
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 21 2009 11:29:33 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:32:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi YIL,
quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
From inner silence, the source of it all?
Then I guess the next logical question would be "Why? Why would the Source be putting thoughts out there for us to either attach to or not attach to? Why wouldn't it just allow is to be in silence like we should be? If the Source is the "source" of all thought, then there must be some greater purpose to "having thoughts" other then to just release them right? We must be meant to be learning from them if this is the case right?
Love,
Carson
Maybe to learn like you say, maybe also to enjoy the illusion of life as individual beings and maybe to enjoy and appreciate "remembering"? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:49:21 AM
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Hi Anthem
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Maybe to learn like you say, maybe also to enjoy the illusion of life as individual beings and maybe to enjoy and appreciate "remembering"?
I gotta retract from this conversation, sorry, but it is making my head hurt. I used to be all for discussions like this, but I'm just not into trying to figure this out anymore. I need to release the need to know now. Sorry for starting something I am not willing to finish. Sorry.
Love,
Carson |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:59:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi YIL,
quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
From inner silence, the source of it all?
Then I guess the next logical question would be "Why? Why would the Source be putting thoughts out there for us to either attach to or not attach to? Why wouldn't it just allow is to be in silence like we should be? If the Source is the "source" of all thought, then there must be some greater purpose to "having thoughts" other then to just release them right? We must be meant to be learning from them if this is the case right?
Love,
Carson
I guess this is the whole metaphysical question, isn't it Carson? If there was only silence (which that is all that is anyhow, at its core), we wouldn't be alive and moving in a dual space now would we? The way I see it everything immanates form silence ("god"), infinite, unbonded, infinite potential. That potential expresses itself through time and space, its on creation. We are part of that, immanations of that. So are thoughts, emotions, etc - all imanations, manifestations of the source, unnamed, unexplained, unbounded, unmoving even. All stems from silence. There is no bigger purpose on this. Or alternatively you can say there is all the purpose: for source to know itself as the source. That is why we are all interacting with ourselves, to experience ourselves. The divine dance, in coulour, light, darkness, time, space. Because you can "know" you are the source, but what you really want to do is to "experience" you are the source and enjoy the scenery no? That's a totally different kind of knowing now isn't it? Some call it evolution. I haven't found out this for myself yet (working on it  ) but it rings true. It is a magical thing, the big mystery, the all and the nothing.
And you say "why would the source put thoughts out there for us to think"? Well, there is not "you", "the source", and "the thoughts". Rather there is only the source: you are part it, and so are "your" thoughts.
Think about it... |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 12:09:33 PM
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Yeah, hard to get ones hands around. Simple philosophy "truisms" don't satisfy. Do animals have thoughts? I think they dream. Does a butterfly dream about the caterpillar life it once led?
Of course, there are pretty complex approaches to such questions like this, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogen...tructuralism
Once during meditation I had the answer to where and why thoughts come to us, but the next thought overshadowed it. :)
--- Later....
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Edited by - Jo-self on Jan 21 2009 12:18:08 PM |
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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 12:15:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Then where do thoughts originate?
Love,
Carson
In my thinking, your mind is like a radio transceiver. Outgoing thoughts being transmissions of energy from your brain. And tuning in to the superconscious, having insight, maybe being enlightened would be a form of receiving energy. In that little world of our brains, stimuli(energy) received is mulched, churned, cooked into thought energy. I'm quite sure it's much more involved than that, but some truths are simple, aren't they?
What were you before conscious thoughts? Cells? then joined by consciousness becoming a person, and when your body quits, is that when consciousness leaves, going back to where it's from, the source, oneness, superconsciousness, God? I'm sorry I more questions than answers.......shredder |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 12:22:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
Think about it...
Sorry Bro but I can't anymore. Like I said this makes my head hurt. I just gotta release the need to know cause this only aggravates me! Haha
Love,
Carson |
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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 12:37:19 PM
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[/quote]
I gotta retract from this conversation, sorry, but it is making my head hurt. I used to be all for discussions like this, but I'm just not into trying to figure this out anymore. I need to release the need to know now. Sorry for starting something I am not willing to finish. Sorry.
Love,
Carson
[/quote]
No problem Carson, I find it enlightening bordering on frightening, myself. For me lately words that were written by someone then read by me seem more real somehow and not just words anymore. In some way it's like I'm absorbing nuggets of truths without pausing to ponder if it makes sense. Dangerous. I'm sure it's just scenery and will pass.....shredder |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 1:02:34 PM
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Thoughts are images, words, language, memory, imagination etc. You can use them consciously and they can use you, which means you can't help thinking. You are always thinking. It seems rather strange to me that you are even asking "what are thoughts?".
I am not interested in thoughts. I am interested in what everybody on these forums are referring to when they talk about pure bliss consciousness, silence etc. THat is much more interesting to me since i have no idea what they are talking about. |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 06:46:39 AM
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Thinking of what all of you are thinking about, I think the best thing would be not to think anymore about thoughts, cause you may think and think and finally sink in something you would never have thought about!!!
Think of it!
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 07:32:40 AM
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Thoughts are the ego's way of attempting to control the world, which it can't do. The ego may even be what the bible calls "satan" because it could be called trying to create the world and be better than god.
First there is the real world. Then man gives names to everything, and manipulates these names in his mind. This is the ability to think abstract thoughts, that animals don't use very much. Humans
imagine doing something before they do it.
This creates the illusion that we have control of the real world.
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 09:12:56 AM
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Your mind is thoughts. When there are no thoughts what do you have? No mind? Contemplate that; it is the profound question.
Love,
TMS
PS, Carson, my brother. Be at ease. Be at ease. Thoughts don't come from anywhere. Don't worry about it. Thoughts and mind are the same thing. When there are no thoughts, there is simply an emptiness with a quality of clearness and readiness, a potential for any form. It is a great mystery, but there is an awareness with the emptiness. Attaching names and labels to what that experience is has no purpose, other than to obscure the experience. Experience of the mystery of emptiness brings about great intuitive wisdom. This is not a brain buster; this is very very relaxed into the natural state of your awareness, empty, without thoughts.
When you talk about the "Source" putting thoughts there, you are talking like the "Source" is something other than you. Thoughts come from the senses, memory, ego-dreams, etc. They are not real.
You are filled with love and compassion for others. Compassion is a thought, feeling of love is a thought. Awareness is a thought. But these are harmonious, like water and soil to a budding-rose.
For some awakening happens by deeply penetrating discursive conventions; for other it happens from devotion to compassionate work; for all meditation is required. These thoughts water the seed of wisdom.
Do you hear an "inner sound"? A ringing, like "hrriii"? Try to tune into that and forget about what thoughts are. |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Jan 22 2009 09:28:02 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 10:30:18 AM
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Hi TMS and thanks for your concern...
Please understand that I am very much at ease. I wanted to drop from this conversation cause the answers to these questions mean nothing to me. When I said "this makes my head hurt" I was only really kidding...What I meant was that I have nothing invested in the answers so I probably shouldn't be talking about this. To ME this is all "mind stuff"....trying to understand life with the mind. I don't have much use for this anymore. I much prefer to experience life then to label and try to understand it...Most of what you say I agree with, but the parts I don't, I have no desire to converse about. This was why I said I am sorry for not finishing what I started above.
I do often in meditation (and occasionally outside of DM too) here the "Om" sound, or get a strong non-localized ringing in my ears/head, but I try to pay little attention to this as I see it as scenery. I personally practice mindfullness throughout the day, and when I sit for meditation I practice the AYP way. And I try to let everything just happen. Can be good can be bad, I don't care, I feel the same towards everyone and everything. (At least most of the time. Everyone slips once in a while.) I used to ask myself the same questions that were asked here; "Where do thoughts come from?" and reading someone else asking these questions brought me back to a point where I identified with the asker and wanted again to know the answer. Then once I started trying to figure this out in my head I realized that I have been here before and I don't care to come back....I much prefer to focus on living now. Not thinking about questions that can't really be answered. So I dropped from the conversation. I am not upset, knotted up inside, anything like this.....I am very much at ease and this is why I decided I should not partake in this conversation. I will have very little to offer I feel. Have a wonderful day.
Love,
Carson
P.S. You asked "When you have no thoughts what do you have?" The answer to me is: unwavering peace. |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 22 2009 11:56:50 AM |
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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 12:15:01 PM
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To Etherfish and Mysticseeker, thanks for your posts! Do you realize you both posted, made sense, expressed ideas and thoughts and never once said "I" in your posts. You have set a very high bar for me. It's simply amazing how many times "I" comes up in some posts. I am guilty as charged.
Shanti, thanks for your posts and the link to mind filters, I found it helpful, and insightful.
I apologize to those who felt this thread touched a raw nerve (not intended) or was unneeded. My background sets me up to question everything, figure out how things work, that's just who I am, and since I'm trying to stop thoughts, quiet my mind, finding out what thoughts are seemed important at the time. YMMV shredder |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 12:58:45 PM
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Hi Shredder and no worries about starting this thread nor offending anyone....I doubt you offended a single soul here, and feel free to open threads whenever you feel the need. No worries bro.
quote:
Originally posted by Shredder
My background sets me up to question everything, figure out how things work, that's just who I am......
Is this REALLY "who you are"? Are you really your need for answers or is this just another thought to be released? hmmmm.....
Love,
Carson
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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 2:16:38 PM
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quote]
Is this REALLY "who you are"? Are you really your need for answers or is this just another thought to be released? hmmmm.....
Love,
Carson
[/quote]
I'm a frayed knot......shredder |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 2:42:56 PM
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Well Shredder, keep up with your twice daily practices and you will soon find that your "frayed sections" are joining back together again and your knot is begin to unravel. Best of luck.
Love,
Carson |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 07:44:51 AM
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| I got it Shredder! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 08:05:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi TMS and thanks for your concern...
Please understand that I am very much at ease. I wanted to drop from this conversation cause the answers to these questions mean nothing to me. When I said "this makes my head hurt" I was only really kidding...What I meant was that I have nothing invested in the answers so I probably shouldn't be talking about this. To ME this is all "mind stuff"....trying to understand life with the mind. I don't have much use for this anymore. I much prefer to experience life then to label and try to understand it...Most of what you say I agree with, but the parts I don't, I have no desire to converse about. This was why I said I am sorry for not finishing what I started above.
I do often in meditation (and occasionally outside of DM too) here the "Om" sound, or get a strong non-localized ringing in my ears/head, but I try to pay little attention to this as I see it as scenery. I personally practice mindfullness throughout the day, and when I sit for meditation I practice the AYP way. And I try to let everything just happen. Can be good can be bad, I don't care, I feel the same towards everyone and everything. (At least most of the time. Everyone slips once in a while.) I used to ask myself the same questions that were asked here; "Where do thoughts come from?" and reading someone else asking these questions brought me back to a point where I identified with the asker and wanted again to know the answer. Then once I started trying to figure this out in my head I realized that I have been here before and I don't care to come back....I much prefer to focus on living now. Not thinking about questions that can't really be answered. So I dropped from the conversation. I am not upset, knotted up inside, anything like this.....I am very much at ease and this is why I decided I should not partake in this conversation. I will have very little to offer I feel. Have a wonderful day.
Love,
Carson
P.S. You asked "When you have no thoughts what do you have?" The answer to me is: unwavering peace.
sometimes you need to go through a lot to see truth.......I think that is exactly what you have found and that is how to have your owner inner peace, or at least the process towards it. Sounds well reasoned and balanced. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 09:07:11 AM
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Hi Carson, According to the Hatha Yoga Pradipika the "inner sound" is not "scenery"; it's kundalini. So I think it is an appropriate object of concentration. I have been experimenting with "tuning in" to the "inner sound" with excellent results in swift samadhi states. I would think the practice can only happen if you have some degree of experience with chakras and kundalini. Then, one can drop the mantra practice, as this is the fruit of mantra practice.
Love,
TMS |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 11:21:42 AM
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Hi TMS,
I kinda see kundalini as scenery as well so....
Love,
Carson |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 2:45:33 PM
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Inner silence, the absolute, the ultimate, pure unconditional love and any other name for THAT you wish to add, is also the ultimate intelligence, the ultimate wisdom.
The interface between the absolute (non-duality) and our timebound physical world of duality, in terms of interpretating this beautiful intelligence and wisdom is our thoughts.
It is how we come to understand the absolute.
The problem is when we become addicted to thinking and we become its slave. Thinking for thinkings sake.
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