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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 3:15:15 PM
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Carson--
Thanks for the lengthy analysis of my suggestions. I get some of it, now--for whatever reasons, your's is not a marriage in which all four of the psychic cornerstones of human relationships--Physical, Intellectual, Emotional and Spiritual--are present and balanced. In a true, 100% meant-to-be-together-forever union, body, mind, heart and soul are all joined as one. Obviously, that's not how or why you and your wife linked up for your relationship. That's a big compromise right there, inasmuch as TRUE LOVE is just that--a balance and blending of each of these four elements in perfect harmony. Without such balance, the relationship will always be uncentered, and issues such as the ones you are now confronting will frequently and increasingly bring discord into the marriage--how sad for both of you that you have needed or been forced into such a situation, because happiness will never flow freely from it. I agree that you cannot make anyone else happy just as no one else can make you happy, we are all responsible for our own happiness, BUT the kind of baseline disharmony present now makes even that difficult to impossible to achieve--again, how sad for you both. I suppose the best sort of situation under these difficult circumstances might be to try a loving, supportive maybe even affectionate but celibate relationship for a while and see how things work out, while trying all the while to open the lines of communication and keep hope alive. Again, good luck to you both, and ya know, Carson--we all go through rough to impossibly difficult patches in our marriages, I certainly did. Optimism and faith do help...
Michael |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 3:24:53 PM
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The situation reminds me of a DVD I saw with David Deida once. It's the only thing I've seen of him, and there was one thing that stayed with me from that DVD that was good food for thought. He said something like this:
There's three kinds of spiritual work: Flow, glow and therapy!
One can develop highly in any or several of those three, independent of eachother:
- Therapeutic - working with the ego structure and mind patterns, personal development etc. It will make you a nicer person and a more calm and well functioning ego when maneuvering through the world. It's good to do that, and sometimes absolutely necessary to get passed huge blockages and fears in order to live a decent non- self-destructive life. If we have a lot of knots and blockages in our system, then a bit of therapy might be absolutely necessary in order to open up to further spiritual work. The system is in a chock mode, and needs to be handled with gentle care in order for the mind to relax a bit and get ready for deeper spiritual work.
- Flow - working with the energies, the whole healing side of spirituality, balancing, doing yoga asanas and go into a healthy, free flowing, energetically fantastic mode.
- Glow - working with meditation and cultivating inner silence, having the Truth shine in your eyes and become very, very wise!
It sounds like your wife might be in need for a little bit of that gentle therapeutic handling before she is even ready to open up to the type of spiritual work you are doing, Carson. I think you are very wise in your approach towards her, and I do understand your frustration of the situation! If I were you, I'd trust that stillness/intelligence has the power to perform miracles in relationships if we only let it, by staying True to ourselves which opens the heart. The heart will tell you what to do in any given situation. Just listen inwards and let her be with and within your stillness as much as possible! (If you do samyama - why not add her name at the end of the sutras?!  ) |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 4:10:18 PM
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Hi Micheal,
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Thanks for the lengthy analysis of my suggestions. I get some of it, now--for whatever reasons, your's is not a marriage in which all four of the psychic cornerstones of human relationships--Physical, Intellectual, Emotional and Spiritual--are present and balanced. In a true, 100% meant-to-be-together-forever union, body, mind, heart and soul are all joined as one.
Well, as I was trying to indicate earlier, I know that my wife and I are not 100% meant for each other. And I knew this when I married her. I know this because I met my "soulmate" years ago and had a lengthy relationship with her (8 years, of which 7 we were engaged to be married) in which it did not work out. She is now married with 1 child and another one on the way. (she got engaged a month after I did and was married two months before me) We are still friends, but we will never be together again. I do not and did not expect that I will/would ever find someone else that could be as perfect for me as she was. I suspect she feels the same deep down, but I'm sure she would never admit it. She got married I believe for the same reasons I did. Insecurity apart from each other, need for a partner, and desire not to be seen by the other as still needing each other. Sad I know and I kinda wish I didn't have to say this out loud. If my wife ever reads this I am in deep s#$t. Good thing she could care less about AYP and the forums! But regardless, you are right about there being "issues" with our relationship in that we are not connected on all four of the levels you said above. But I DO feel that these issues are overcomeable. That was why I wanted to open this thread and start figuring it all out. I DO love my wife and I DO want to be connected in all four areas, but I am satisfied even if we aren't, and am happy to spend the rest of my life working to better our relationship. It is my fault we are together in this capacity and I'm not about to back out now!!
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Obviously, that's not how or why you and your wife linked up for your relationship. That's a big compromise right there, inasmuch as TRUE LOVE is just that--a balance and blending of each of these four elements in perfect harmony. Without such balance, the relationship will always be uncentered, and issues such as the ones you are now confronting will frequently and increasingly bring discord into the marriage--how sad for both of you that you have needed or been forced into such a situation, because happiness will never flow freely from it.
What I don't think you understand Micheal is that neither of us is unhappy in our relationship. We are more then happy to have each other in ANY capacity and work to better it over the years, and do not have to have a perfect balance right away, or even ever! This is compromise for sure. But with this understanding in mind, I believe it IS possible to have balance. I understand exactly where we are from my perspective and I believe my wife is the same. And the issue we are having isn't even that big of an issue. We are both pretty much happy for now in having a celibate but still loving relationship, at least until we can sort out her sexual issues. I am not unhappy and I know whe is not unhappy, at least not with me and our relationship. Happiness is not linked to anything. I do not need anything to be happy. I don't need a wife, I don't need sex, I don't need anything. My pure awareness and connection to God is enough to keep me happy forever, so to say that happiness cannot flow freely in our relationship is not true.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I agree that you cannot make anyone else happy just as no one else can make you happy, we are all responsible for our own happiness, BUT the kind of baseline disharmony present now makes even that difficult to impossible to achieve--again, how sad for you both.
How do you know that there is disharmony? I don't feel disharmony in my relationship so how can you tell that there is? You think because we don't have frequent sex that there has to be some sort of disharmony? What about Amma and her husband who NEVER had sex? You think there was disharmony there? They lacked the physical aspect of the four phsycic cornerstones of a relationship, yet I would gladly have their state of relationship! And please don't say "how sad for you both", cause neither of US are sad, so there is no need foryou to be sad either!
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
I suppose the best sort of situation under these difficult circumstances might be to try a loving, supportive maybe even affectionate but celibate relationship for a while and see how things work out, while trying all the while to open the lines of communication and keep hope alive.
As of Saturday afternoon this is what we have decided to do. Stay away from sex until the two of us can sort out what is causing her to feel the way she does during it. This may take years, but I am in this for the long haul as I said, so that is ok with me. There is nothing lacking in our relationship other then sex by the way, and neither of us miss it that much, so it really isn't that big of a deal. At least not right now. I can see it becoming a bigger deal in the future hence why I am trying to sort it out now. Make sense?
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Again, good luck to you both, and ya know, Carson--we all go through rough to impossibly difficult patches in our marriages, I certainly did. Optimism and faith do help...
Thanks Micheal. Despite how it may sound, or how you may be interpretting what I am saying, I have both optimism and faith that all is happening as it should and the best for both of us will be what comes out of this. Thank you for all your advice and concern.
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 12 2009 4:23:15 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 4:21:47 PM
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Hi emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
It sounds like your wife might be in need for a little bit of that gentle therapeutic handling before she is even ready to open up to the type of spiritual work you are doing, Carson.
Absolutely. But getting her to think about this problem let alone go to therapy with me is a real struggle. She seems more then content with the way things are now. Unfortunately as I said to Micheal this will likely only last so long before it starts to grow as an issue, and this is why I am sort of trying to nip this in the bud. Any suggestions on how to encourage her to want to seek help for this? Everything I have tried so far has not worked.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I think you are very wise in your approach towards her, and I do understand your frustration of the situation! If I were you, I'd trust that stillness/intelligence has the power to perform miracles in relationships if we only let it, by staying True to ourselves which opens the heart. The heart will tell you what to do in any given situation. Just listen inwards and let her be with and within your stillness as much as possible! (If you do samyama - why not add her name at the end of the sutras?! )
Yes this is sort of the approach I am taking. I am trying to take a little bit of a more proactive approach but I know I cannot force anything nor set the speed of recovery. Only she can do this. And I have had to cut samyama from my practices due to excessive crown energy as of late, but once I pick it up again I will obviously continue to let go of her in silence. If you want to include her in YOUR samyama her name is Deanna. Thank you for your advice and encouragement.
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 7:52:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi TMS,
What you are assuming incorrectly is that I think that remaining pre-orgasmic is necessary for moksha. I don't think this at all, nor have I said that. All I have said is that the energy drain I have from orgasm or even blocked orgasm is too much for me to handle at this stage of my journey and I will not have orgasms just to please my wife for the short term. That's all. Hope this explains a little bit more for you.
Love,
Carson
P.S. We have sex maybe twice a month at most now so obviously I am not obsessed with sex, tantra, or orgasm.
I'm thinking maybe you should be having more sex.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 9:27:49 PM
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Not trying to second guess you TMS, but can you explain to me WHY you think this? My WIFE definitely needs some time to sort out her sexuality, so me pushing for more sex right now seems like a REALLY bad idea to me. Mind explaining yourself a little more?
Love,
Carson
P.S. I feel lucky as I am able to write on the forum at work at the Drop In Centre tonight. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2009 : 10:14:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Not trying to second guess you TMS, but can you explain to me WHY you think this? My WIFE definitely needs some time to sort out her sexuality, so me pushing for more sex right now seems like a REALLY bad idea to me. Mind explaining yourself a little more?
Love,
Carson
P.S. I feel lucky as I am able to write on the forum at work at the Drop In Centre tonight.
Okay I was being too flippant. Seriously, if your wife has sexuality issues, you might want to consider secular couples therapy; or she should see someone. Sexual issues should be sorted out, together if possible. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 12:24:26 AM
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Yes sir.... But how do you suggest I get her into treatment? (the treatment she really needs is regressed memory therapy) At this point she feels content to be celibate or to just please me in bed with no regards for herself. This is not healthy. And believe me and am involved in the sorting out of these issues. If it was left up to her it would be left alone forever I fear.
Love,
Carson |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 12:59:45 AM
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Hi Carson,
I feel the real issue here: does your heart ask you to be a spiritual sex worker for your wife ? If yes, do you have enough tools & knowledge to heal her this specific way ? If no, it might be best you stop looking for pre-orgasm activity through your's wife vessel otherwise this will stir more individual & collective karma impossible to handle for the moment.
In Shakti, Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Jan 13 2009 01:13:50 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 01:26:24 AM
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Truly, Carson, you are so wise. It's not possible to force anyone into therapy! I think it's more than enough at the moment that you are AWARE of her therapeutic needs. Then you, just by being yourself, will have a therapeutic effect on her! As I suggested earlier: do go on with whatever sexlife you are having as long as that feels ok, but start adding the long hugs to get closer to each other. You don't have to be more passionately husband and wife than you are - it's impossible to force anyway! From the type of connectedness you have right now - see if you can connect on a deeper physical plane as human to human by staying in long hugs a few times a day! That will be tough enough for her, I think! And if that works well... try the "just being naked together in bed" and stroke and carress eachothers bodies. This is not instead of your sexlife, but an add on in between. You are actually the best therapist she can have at the moment!!! Why? Her problem is around sex and a professional therapist can never come as close as a partner! This is what I wrote in my thesis, by the way, I stumbled on it yesterday:
quote:
Having an intimate relationship is generally known to be health promoting for everybody. However, it may be crucial for victims of CSA who have problems with trust and intimacy to get emotional support, acceptance and respect from a partner in overcoming these feelings. This is in line with Cohen’s stress buffering hypothesis (Cohen & Wills, 1985), stating that “buffering effects will be observed when the support functions measured are those that are most relevant for the stressors faced by the person”. To share one’s inner feelings and work through the deepest wounds concerning integrity, physical touch and sexuality is only enabled in a close relationship. Thus, an intimate relationship seems to be of outmost importance for this group of women since it is healing the parts most harmed...
You know, it's good to get the oxytocin flowing in the body. It starts whenever we TOUCH eachother. Skin to skin sets off oxytocin releases. That's why we love holding hands, giving eachother massages, hugs... children knows this. They are naturally physically close and we stiff adults love it! Oxytocin is the "bonding hormone". It brings us humans to greater togetherness. It's what's mothers (also animal mothers like cows) releases when they breast feed. It's why we can get milk from the cows - the calf buffs his head toward the udder to start an oxytocin release that makes the milk flow... |
Edited by - emc on Jan 13 2009 01:56:04 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 08:44:34 AM
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Every relationship is unique, we can all be sure that the one we are in is the absolute best to give us what we need in this moment to progress on our spiritual path, we are simply designed to attract these circumstances into our lives. When it is time to move on we will know deep down and it is our choice to honor that knowing or not. The thoughts we carry into the relationship can impact it dramatically. So having ideas of it not being ideal or this person not being our "soul mate" etc. can prevent us from experiencing these very things and there would be great benefit from inquiring if these ideas are true.
The frequency of sex is very related to the newness of the relationship. The vast majority of relationships begin with sex occurring with much more frequency than after the first couple of years, so there is no failing in a relationship if it occurs less, the dynamic of the couple determines this and there is no right or wrong, if one person is dissatisfied, then this is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise there is no problem unless we think there is. I can't speak for moksha, but abstaining from orgasm is not necessary to awaken kundalini. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 11:52:23 AM
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Hi Albert,
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
I feel the real issue here: does your heart ask you to be a spiritual sex worker for your wife ? If yes, do you have enough tools & knowledge to heal her this specific way ? If no, it might be best you stop looking for pre-orgasm activity through your's wife vessel otherwise this will stir more individual & collective karma impossible to handle for the moment.
Yes my heart is calling me to be a "spiritual sex worker" for my wife. Very much so. There is noone else who could or would help her, (not even herself) so this position has been handed to me I feel. But no, I do not feel adaquately prepared for this position. But you know what? I NEVER feel adequately prepared for the positions God has been forcing me into lately, but I always find the right things coming out of my mouth anyways. Funny how that works isn't it. Regardless, the inadequacy I feel in this area is the reason I started this thread. In hopes of feeling more adequate in dealing with these issues. And don't worry, we have stopped having any sex for the time being, so there is no danger in increasing or compounding the issues. Thanks for the advice.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 12:16:15 PM
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Hi emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Truly, Carson, you are so wise.
Aw, I'm blushing . Haha. I'm not wise, (I'm not anything but here) but thank you for saying that!
quote:
Originally posted by emc
It's not possible to force anyone into therapy!
Yeah unfortunately this is the case. And even if you CAN force someone into therapy you can't force them to get anything out of it. Stupid free will. Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I think it's more than enough at the moment that you are AWARE of her therapeutic needs. Then you, just by being yourself, will have a therapeutic effect on her!
I hope you are right because I found out last night that "Repressed Memory Therapy" has been discreditted as a valid form of psychotherapy and noone does it anymore. Great. Actually the first time my wife ever told me about this (I had suspected long before, but had never spoken of it) was after we both did Ketamine in bed and in her trip she realized that she thinks she was sexually abused as a child. We had planned on doing more Ketamine in hopes of her learning more later, but I ended up losing my overseas connection to it, and can't get enough consistantly to actually do this kind of theraputic work ourselves. Damn.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
As I suggested earlier: do go on with whatever sexlife you are having as long as that feels ok, but start adding the long hugs to get closer to each other.
Well, after having a few private discussions about this with a few other people I feel that continuing sex at this point is a bad idea. It has been suggested that there is a potential that my wife's kundalini was awakened due to her CSA and that us having sex at this point could be detrimental to her ability to balance her energy right now, so until we can sort some of this out, we will not be having "sex". She is ok with this. My wife does not practice AYP (or anything spiritual at all) so she has no way of dealing with energy excesses and should sex cause the kundalini to flow excessively I am nervous that continuing sex could cause more damage then good. I am happy to leave it at deeply affectionate huggin for now and I thank you for that wonderful suggestion.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
You don't have to be more passionately husband and wife than you are - it's impossible to force anyway!
Yes, as I was saying to Micheal above, I do not feel passionately connected to my wife as I had a deeply passionate relationship with my last partner and do not feel (right now) that I am capable of loving anyone else the way I loved her. This doesn't mean I don't love my wife, I do, it just means it is not a passionate type of love like what I had with my previous partner. Perhaps this will change in the future. I have no doubts that it will.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
From the type of connectedness you have right now - see if you can connect on a deeper physical plane as human to human by staying in long hugs a few times a day! That will be tough enough for her, I think! And if that works well... try the "just being naked together in bed" and stroke and carress eachothers bodies.
I have already started implementing this strategy and it seems to be working. My wife seemed to really want to have sex last night,(after a nice long hug) but instead I held her close and didn't push it any further and she fell asleep quickly in my arms. It was beautiful, at least for me.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
You are actually the best therapist she can have at the moment!!!
I hope so cause I'm the only one she will let near her! haha.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Having an intimate relationship is generally known to be health promoting for everybody. However, it may be crucial for victims of CSA who have problems with trust and intimacy to get emotional support, acceptance and respect from a partner in overcoming these feelings. This is in line with Cohen’s stress buffering hypothesis (Cohen & Wills, 1985), stating that “buffering effects will be observed when the support functions measured are those that are most relevant for the stressors faced by the person”. To share one’s inner feelings and work through the deepest wounds concerning integrity, physical touch and sexuality is only enabled in a close relationship. Thus, an intimate relationship seems to be of outmost importance for this group of women since it is healing the parts most harmed...
Yes this seems to be most logical. Who better to help work through sexual issues with then an unconditionally loving sexual partner. One who does not force anything. Wise words from a wise woman!
quote:
Originally posted by emc
You know, it's good to get the oxytocin flowing in the body. It starts whenever we TOUCH eachother. Skin to skin sets off oxytocin releases. That's why we love holding hands, giving eachother massages, hugs... children knows this. They are naturally physically close and we stiff adults love it! Oxytocin is the "bonding hormone". It brings us humans to greater togetherness. It's what's mothers (also animal mothers like cows) releases when they breast feed. It's why we can get milk from the cows - the calf buffs his head toward the udder to start an oxytocin release that makes the milk flow...
Is there a possibility though emc, that my wife has an "aversion" to oxytocin? That the release of this hormone/chemical causes her to subconsciously think about the times when this hormone was released during her abuse situations and make her less likely to want or enjoy physical contact? Could this be possible? Thanks again for all you loving and helpful advice!
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 12:26:08 PM
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Hi Anthem and thanks for contributing!
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Every relationship is unique, we can all be sure that the one we are in is the absolute best to give us what we need in this moment to progress on our spiritual path, we are simply designed to attract these circumstances into our lives. When it is time to move on we will know deep down and it is our choice to honor that knowing or not. The thoughts we carry into the relationship can impact it dramatically. So having ideas of it not being ideal or this person not being our "soul mate" etc. can prevent us from experiencing these very things and there would be great benefit from inquiring if these ideas are true.
Yes I understand this, but I cannot convince myself of something that isn't there. I do not love my wife the way I loved my last partner. It would be lying to myself to say that I do. I am not saying that it is not possible in the future, just that it isn't this way right now. I am not shutting the door on anything, just being realistic I feel.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
The frequency of sex is very related to the newness of the relationship. The vast majority of relationships begin with sex occurring with much more frequency than after the first couple of years, so there is no failing in a relationship if it occurs less, the dynamic of the couple determines this and there is no right or wrong, if one person is dissatisfied, then this is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise there is no problem unless we think there is.
Of course. Frequency of sex is not really the issue here though. I am fine having less sex, and I know she is too. (at least for now) BUT, that said, our sex life is not healthy. She hates orgasming (especially during intercourse) and will do anything to avoid this. This is indicitive of sexual trauma, and I think it is important to deal with this before hoping or pushing to fix the frequency of sex problem. And I realize that staying pre-orgasmic is not required to awaken kundalini, I just lose so much energy when I orgasm that it is not worth it to me. I'd much rather not orgasm if possible. I don't stress about it if it happens though. Everything happens for a reason right? Thanks for the advice and thoughts.
Love,
Carson |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 1:45:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Yes my heart is calling me to be a "spiritual sex worker" for my wife. Very much so. There is noone else who could or would help her, (not even herself) so this position has been handed to me I feel. But no, I do not feel adaquately prepared for this position. But you know what? I NEVER feel adequately prepared for the positions God has been forcing me into lately, but I always find the right things coming out of my mouth anyways.
Hi Carson,
It seems from what you shared in this thread, you'll do indeed an amazing "spiritual sex worker" for your wife. You seem to have an acute self-consciousness of lacking these specific techniques but as you said, they will come in due time.
One rule: you're never looking to orgasm for yourself when doing that type of ritual & it seems your vessel is ready for that part.
Second rule: realize that you are a conduit monitored by God trying to find way so your wife will orgasm. At some point , the orgasm will create impressive kriyas in your wife that will not scare you because of your yogic knowledge. Then you'll know when to stop sexual massage & rather propose curling presence.
Third rule: it is physical monitored by your heart listening the divine of what to do and not things coming out of your mouth as you wrote above.
Hope this helps, Albert |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 2:34:48 PM
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Hi Albert and thank yo ufor your helpful advice!
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
It seems from what you shared in this thread, you'll do indeed an amazing "spiritual sex worker" for your wife. You seem to have an acute self-consciousness of lacking these specific techniques but as you said, they will come in due time.
Yes I definitely do have an "acute self-consciousness" about how to approach this, but this makes me listen to my heart that much more for instruction. A blessing in disguise really.
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
One rule: you're never looking to orgasm for yourself when doing that type of ritual & it seems your vessel is ready for that part.
Yes, it is never about my orgasm anymore. (thank God! haha)
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Second rule: realize that you are a conduit monitored by God trying to find way so your wife will orgasm. At some point , the orgasm will create impressive kriyas in your wife that will not scare you because of your yogic knowledge. Then you'll know when to stop sexual massage & rather propose curling presence.
Can you explain to me what you mean by "curling presence"? Don't quite understand this part of Rule 2.
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Third rule: it is physical monitored by your heart listening the divine of what to do and not things coming out of your mouth as you wrote above.
Yes I realize this and I think the way you took my statement was a miscommunication due to you speaking French andnot English as a first language. All I was meaning is that despite not knowing what to say or do, the right things always seem to happen, whether that is by saying the right thing, doing the right thing, or not doing or saying anything at all. Didn't mean that I should be listening to what comes out of my mouth persay. Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 4:05:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Can you explain to me what you mean by "curling presence"? Don't quite understand this part of Rule 2.
Well Carson, it is a capacity in a few seconds to shift from sexual massage towards hugging, holding hands, listening to deep sorrow, yelling, crying, shivering, vomiting... hence a non-sexual attitude as a very close friend in order to help your wife go through the detox triggered before by the "spiritual sexual worker".
In Shakti, Albert |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 4:18:11 PM
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Thanks Albert,
I understand what you were saying now. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Love,
Carson |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 1:38:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
And I have had to cut samyama from my practices due to excessive crown energy as of late, but once I pick it up again I will obviously continue to let go of her in silence. If you want to include her in YOUR samyama her name is Deanna.
Unfortunately I have had to cut out samyama as well, but I'm getting back to it now, so I'll gladly add your wife to it!
quote:
Is there a possibility though emc, that my wife has an "aversion" to oxytocin? That the release of this hormone/chemical causes her to subconsciously think about the times when this hormone was released during her abuse situations and make her less likely to want or enjoy physical contact? Could this be possible?
I doubt she has an aversion to the hormone itself. I'd rather believe it's caused by a conditioned response to the touching itself which is connected to the awkward experiences. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 2:35:23 PM
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Hi emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I doubt she has an aversion to the hormone itself. I'd rather believe it's caused by a conditioned response to the touching itself which is connected to the awkward experiences.
I've been wondering about this off and on as I deal with this...At first I thought the same as what you are saying above, but then I started to wonder about why my wife has an aversion to doing meditation as well. Could it not be that she does have some kind of dislike for the release of oxytocin since she does not like how meditation nor physical touching makes her feel and both cause the release of this hormone? Just a thought.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 5:12:29 PM
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Hi Carson
My guess would be that she doesn't like meditation because...in the relaxation.....it will surface. The subtle smell of what she unconsciously supresses will make itself known....and she is not ready for it.
This is why she is first and foremost in need of treatment. And since she only trusts you.....there you have it. Every instant you spend together will reveal your selves to your selves.
So you keep meditating.....you look.....and then silence will let you approach her again and again whenever the opening is there.
The hugging.....I hope you will do lots of it
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Edited by - Katrine on Jan 15 2009 5:13:38 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 03:11:42 AM
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| Thank you, Katrine, I have nothing to add to your answer! |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 10:11:02 AM
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carson, I read some of this, but not all. my point of view is just that, my point of view. You talk about wanting to help her, of course you do, you have a great heart. Oftentimes we walk along the path of life and try and transform. We have not always transformed however we may be exictied about our path and try and force others along it. When we do this our focus may turn to me helping them, rather then our transformation process. The fact that we feel we are helping others may give us a stregth, that our practice does not. So trying to fix others at times will not allow us to see our paths as clarly. We may even look to validate our path based on the number of people we have convinced to follow this same path. Personally I have done this many times
We are humans, so of course we cannnot be perfect. Sometimes when we try and help we actually push away, sometimes when we let things be we pull them towards us. What makes the changes for you may not be needed by others. You may need postures and meditation which calm your mind. then you wife sees your mind getting calmer and in turn her mind may calm, she sees your energy increase and just by seeing that her energy may increase. Because of your path, her path may need a lot less practices. Buddha was enlightened and said "if you could see the miracle of this flower clearly your whole life would change" a person in the audiance, suddenly became enlightened. Much less of a process then buddha took.
I am not saying to not practice, sounds as if your practices are fun and are leading you to places you enjoy. That is great for you. If you put pressure on her to do the practices she may move away from you. Maybe the pressure is spoken or unspoken. She may sense either. My opinion, the more you move into a positive space, the more she sees that, she will evolve whether or not you notice it.
as far as the sex stuff, well maybe explore each other more, every inch of oneself, each other. ask her if you can do this at times without sexual stimulation and then maybe times with stimulation. in life we balance surrender and boundries. we help each other through our tough times the best we know how.
self realization? what blocks that? just the acceptance of self? Not seeing the flower clearly?
some thoughts
Neil
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 12:01:46 PM
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Hi Katrine and emc (who has nothing to add to your answer),
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
My guess would be that she doesn't like meditation because...in the relaxation.....it will surface. The subtle smell of what she unconsciously supresses will make itself known....and she is not ready for it.
Possible. She used to join us for group meditations on Thursday evenings, but now she prefers to take the dogs into the other room and watch TV while we meditate. I have never pushed AYP or yoga on her, have always just tried to let my actions speak louder then any words.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
This is why she is first and foremost in need of treatment. And since she only trusts you.....there you have it. Every instant you spend together will reveal your selves to your selves.
Hugging, hugging, hugging.....that's my new approach to everything with her. That and trying to never get "upset" with her, and always try to approach things from a "we can work this out" type perspective.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So you keep meditating.....you look.....and then silence will let you approach her again and again whenever the opening is there.
Yes, I am really not pushy about this all. It may seem like it from all I have written, but my wife really still has no idea any of this is being talked about here, (or is even being thought about in my head) and I doubt she's even noticed a difference in things at home other then me hugging her a lot more and for a lot longer.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The hugging.....I hope you will do lots of it
You know it! I wonder what she thinks about it though. I'm sure she is like, "what the hell is up with my husband these days? He doesn't ever seem to want to have sex, but he won't stop hugging me all the time! What the hell?" haha. Oh the joys of marriage  .
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 12:16:04 PM
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Hello Brother Neil and thank you for your post and thoughts. Hope you are doing well my friend.
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
Oftentimes we walk along the path of life and try and transform. We have not always transformed however we may be exictied about our path and try and force others along it. When we do this our focus may turn to me helping them, rather then our transformation process. The fact that we feel we are helping others may give us a stregth, that our practice does not. So trying to fix others at times will not allow us to see our paths as clarly. We may even look to validate our path based on the number of people we have convinced to follow this same path. Personally I have done this many times
Yeah, I am not trying to force anything on my wife. Not meditation, not sex, not therapy. She does not know I am talking about this, nor that I am even thinking about this. (At least I don't think she knows. If she does it is only a hunch for sure) I am very happy living by example and allowing my transformation to do it's thing on her as well. BUT, there are some seriously troubling aspects of our lives that do need attention (at least in the future) and this is why I am talking about this at the forum... Please understand that all that has been said here in this thread is unbeknownst to my wife, and recently we have talked about the subject for maybe 5 minutes of the past 4 months. Not pushing her for sure. Thanks for the reminder though.
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
We are humans, so of course we cannnot be perfect. Sometimes when we try and help we actually push away, sometimes when we let things be we pull them towards us.
Wise words and ones I try to live by everyday. Another great reminder.
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
What makes the changes for you may not be needed by others. You may need postures and meditation which calm your mind. then you wife sees your mind getting calmer and in turn her mind may calm, she sees your energy increase and just by seeing that her energy may increase. Because of your path, her path may need a lot less practices. Buddha was enlightened and said "if you could see the miracle of this flower clearly your whole life would change" a person in the audiance, suddenly became enlightened. Much less of a process then buddha took.
Beautiful. Yes this is how it seems to be unfolding in my household. Not saying that I'm about to make my wife enlightened or anything, just saying that my journey is definitely rubbing off on her even if it's just through the ways that our relationship is changing for the better. I'm sure it goes much deeper then that though.
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
I am not saying to not practice, sounds as if your practices are fun and are leading you to places you enjoy. That is great for you. If you put pressure on her to do the practices she may move away from you. Maybe the pressure is spoken or unspoken. She may sense either. My opinion, the more you move into a positive space, the more she sees that, she will evolve whether or not you notice it.
I don't pressure her to do anything. At least not consciously, and I try very hard to be aware of my sub-conscious so if I do it sub-consciously I think it is probably pretty minimal. I really try hard not to throw guilt at anyone anymore, especially my wife. She is free to do as she pleases, as much as I would love to steer her one way or the other. I hope that this makes more of a difference then it would if I tried to direct her. I'm sure it does. It may take longer for her to realize things, but when the realization happens it comes from inside her, not from me, so it means that much more I think.
quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
as far as the sex stuff, well maybe explore each other more, every inch of oneself, each other. ask her if you can do this at times without sexual stimulation and then maybe times with stimulation. in life we balance surrender and boundries. we help each other through our tough times the best we know how.
The problem is basically that she doesn't like to be touched much. Even getting her to stay in contact throughout a long hug can be difficult sometimes. With clothes ON! There are some deep seated issues here, just so deep that she can't see them anymore. Or at least that is how she seems and presents it to me. Thanks for the wonderful advice my brother and it was wonderful to hear from you again!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 16 2009 2:40:03 PM |
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