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Sheila
USA
17 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 4:41:10 PM
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I am a beginner at AYP having stumbled upon this website sometime last year. In the context of the spiritual faith and emotion evident in these forums, I am almost embarrassed to pose this question on the AYP website, but david_obsidian strongly suggested I do so.
My question is: How to fuel faith? I am one of those who do not have spontaneous or inherent faith/ bhakti (and truly envy those who do). In addition, I am almost hardwired with a self centered belief system, which means I feel life’s downturns personally and intensely. The solution seems clear – develop a broader belief system i.e. FAITH, to expand perspective and life will be far more palatable. Therefore, I have a strong yearning to develop faith - but how does one develop genuine faith simply because one wants to? Especially, with a mindset that is analytical and not overly sensitive. Simply put, can I “reason” my way into faith - and if so, how? Books like Yogananda's autobiography are very inspiring, but stretch credibility somewhat and philosophies such as Ramana Maharishi’s neti-neti are very difficult for me to understand.
BTW, if relevant, I have been following a routine of 10mins SBP, 20 mins DM, and 5 mins Samyama for a few months (twice daily as often as I can). The lack of faith is not a problem; I follow this routine based on a general conviction that like exercise, this will help with general well being. And, it has, somewhat. Yet, without faith, it seems like an essential ingredient is missing.
Thank you for listening.
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 5:40:02 PM
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"I follow this routine based on a general conviction that like exercise, this will help with general well being. And, it has, somewhat. Yet, without faith, it seems like an essential ingredient is missing."
Actually, you are right on! Do the practice with very little expectations. I understand your concern about their being a lack of conviction arising from some explicit experience of God or what have you. But that is the magic and science of yoga, espcially the way Yogani presents it - that you just do the practices and the things that right now you think that you want or need (ie spiritual conviction, mystical experience, ect) will either come to you, or be realized as transient and insubstantial.
It sounds to me like you have a strong practice. I don't know how long you have been practicing yoga prior to AYP, but if you are pretty new to the whole thing then it seems you have taken on a lot of practices in a very short time. I recently stripped it down to just DM for the first time in two years of practice and it is proving to be very productive.
And above all else, and it may take years of not following his advice until you follow it (see: me), do the practices and then move on with the rest of your day. It is equally as important as the practice itself. Worrying about Bhakti and such is just extending your practice into the rest of your day, and even worse, is a product of the busy-body mind and won't ultimately lead to anything.
Keep on keepin on :-)
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 6:08:44 PM
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Hi Sheila
Thank you so much for your honest and direct post 
First of all:
quote:
In the context of the spiritual faith and emotion evident in these forums, I am almost embarrassed to pose this question on the AYP website
You have nothing to be embarrased about.
No questions are not valid here - and yours is beautiful - so please take that to heart
quote:
My question is: How to fuel faith? I am one of those who do not have spontaneous or inherent faith/ bhakti (and truly envy those who do).
Noone has continuous obvious faith/bhakti (unless realized) - we all suffer from doubt. Experienced spontaneous bhakti is a result of an inward turning that is greatly helped by practises such as AYP.
Your longing for greater bhakti is itself bhakti!
See - this is what deep meditation, resting in stillness, "does"....it stirs a longing inside. Something inside you pulls you to itself. This has already happened in your case - the fact of your question is proof of this.
quote:
The solution seems clear – develop a broader belief system i.e. FAITH, to expand perspective and life will be far more palatable
In my experience, the only thing that fuels faith/bhakti is direct experience. Belief systems take you further away from yourself, simply because mind is needed to believe. And here we are transcending mind. Mind is what is obscuring Reality - That which Is - so in order to transcend it, what we call non-effort is needed. Which is basically to keep quiet inside - when mind is not needed. So no - you cannot "reason" yourself into faith. As it is for most of us - mind is thought to be needed all the time. So our journey is basically to find out - for our selves - if this is true.
This is the gem of deep meditation. In this close to effortless practise we come into contact with inner silence. This is Faith itself. And this has an impact that stays with us between practises.
quote:
I follow this routine based on a general conviction that like exercise, this will help with general well being. And, it has, somewhat.
This is great, Sheila.
It is this, coupled with questions like the one you just posted, and also to continue to actively engage in whatever life has in store for you, that will enable grater faith. You will draw to yourself the experiences you need for greater bhakti. This is the intelligence of Being. Life is the greatest guru! It matters not that you seemingly do not have faith in this yet. Faith is already deep inside you, and you are also surrounded by it. Simply give it time to develop of itself. The important thing is a consistant, regular, daily practise like the one you are already engaged in.
Also - I strongly recommend all of Yoganis books (displayed on the right side of this screen). They are simple, direct, honest, and built on his own - and that of many, many others up through the centuries - direct experience of the fact of Reality. Not theories about it; the fact of it.
It is the direct experience of the fact of Reality that will fuel your faith.
Have you checked out Yoganis book: "Bhakti and Karma Yoga"
It answers many of your questions regarding faith.
quote:
Therefore, I have a strong yearning to develop faith - but how does one develop genuine faith simply because one wants to?
Sheila - this is bhakti as good as any! Your strong yearning will give you what your yearn for - life is wonderful this way! It instantly recognizes the yearning for Truth - it will surface in your life in many ways, and after some time you simply learn to recognize it to a greater and greater extent. You develop the ability to discriminate between what is true and what is not true. It is not mind that does this discrimination, though. It will not be a "doing" on your part. On the contrary - the more relaxed and the more trusting - the more Truth surfaces.
So your best tool for now is the practises you are already doing. Read the AYP Main Lessons to make sure you practise wisely and please do come posting in this forum any time you wonder about anything. Or anytime you feel like sharing from your journey - which is basically life as it is We are many here who help each other to the best of our ability - based on experience of practises and direct experience of Truth.
quote:
BTW, if relevant, I have been following a routine of 10mins SBP, 20 mins DM, and 5 mins Samyama for a few months (twice daily as often as I can).
This is highly relevant 
In my experience (and I have meditated for many years) - it is the main tool for greater faith.
quote:
The lack of faith is not a problem;
That's great, Sheila. It means you will continue to practise. And - you may not be aware of this, but it also indicates a degree of faith :D]
quote:
I follow this routine based on a general conviction that like exercise, this will help with general well being
Yes. General well being is what this is all about. May the spirit you are continue to feel nurtured.
And may you end up enjoying practises and life alike
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 6:12:40 PM
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Hi Anthony
We cross posted.
Great post, by the way
Sheila:
Has anything changed after adding SBP and Samyama? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 6:26:53 PM
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Hi Sheila,
Welcome to the forum.
I will agree with Anthony. You actually have an advantage that many don't.. you can do your practice like brushing your teeth and let go and let the practice do it's thing while you go about your day and not obsess over the results. Perfect.
Just one thing to add.. why do you think you don't have faith/bhakti? Is it because you don't feel the gushing devotion that many have talked about? Is it because you have formed an image of what bhakti should be in your mind and since you don't feel this you think you have no bhakti? If you did not have any you would not be here questioning.
Drop your idea of what bhakti should be like and you will discover the bhakti in you.. in a form that your inner silence knows is right for you at this point. Life knows what it's doing and we see this when the mind stops running it's script. The mind stops running it's script as inner silence increases with practice. And you have the advantage of being able to practice even when you feel things are not going as it should... this will allow your silence to overflow into your everyday life and you will soon see how your bhakti looks.
Wish you all the best.
PS: I did not see Katrine's post.. I will agree with her.. your yearning for bhakti is bhakti itself... like looking for God with God's eyes.
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Edited by - Shanti on Jan 01 2009 6:30:41 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 6:44:08 PM
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i think it would be good for you to try heart breathing my friend.
http://www.aypsite.org/220.html
plus it would be good to know why you took on these exercises from the first place and focus on achieving that goal.
and in your case, concerning what you're practicing if you're happy with it and going steady then you are good on your way.
and just a few important tricks along the way which are very useful and practical, your frustration concerning your state of wether you have a bhakti or not; well you can use that frustration and actually turn it into bhakti like "Yogani" puts it in one of his lessons: use it to bring you closer toward your enlightenment like you want it now like you hunger for it.
you can turn that frustration into a practice of self enquiry where you would point your frustration into other stuff like why am i not enlightened and why does not my true self show itself, who am i....
"plain old simple self enquiry which is one hell of a karmic cleanser."
the last advice is that you can use the emotional body trick here, when you suffer or you are frustrated or feeling cold or empty... just be there watch these feelings and realize them to be something related to the emotional body in you that is one very good practice as well.
if you want to know more about it, i suggest you read the power of now by "Eckhart Tolle."
i wish you all the best on your path.
light and love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 6:45:42 PM
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| wow it seems i cross posted with everyone lolz |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 9:18:47 PM
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Sheila
as another person said, the fact that you posted this shows your faith, you may have more faith then you give yourself credit for, rock on how to increase faith. say hi to people more, lend a hand to people more, give more to people. Do this from your heart with love, and watch it return.
my best to you
brother Neil
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Sheila
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2009 : 1:52:48 PM
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Thank you all, for your encouraging and inspiring responses. It is reassuring to know that I may be on the right path.
Katrine – In response to your question, I think I may be less anxious than I was before I started AYP. Whether this is due to adding SBP/Samyana, I really cannot say. Your post was very comforting and yes, I will get all of Yogani’s books.
Shanti – the problem may indeed be my self-conceived notion of bhakti/faith. In your post, you write with certainty that “life knows what it is doing” and “the stillness knows what is right for me”. This certainty is the faith I seek - to develop an abiding trust in this stillness/being/intelligence and to accept what life offers me. But if I understand the forum, I think the response is that the trust/faith may be a consequence of the practice.
Ananda – thank you for your helpful pointers. While I have read Tolle’s book, I should probably read it again and apply it to the extent possible.
Regards and Happy New Year
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2009 : 4:13:27 PM
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Hi Sheila,
in the world of psychic therapy, starting with the discoveries of C.G.Jung, a specific kind of experience has been highly valued as being often able to brake the "distrust in the universe." This experience is called a synchronistic event. A couple of years ago I experienced a chain of such striking events, and it turned out for me to be a significant shift towards greater "trust in the cosmos." (I hope I'm getting it right that this is what you are after.) In my case these experiences were triggered by an in-depth experiential therapy.
Here an excerpt from R.Tarnas' "Psyche&Cosmos":
Jung took particular interest in meaningful coincidences, in the beginning no doubt because their frequent occurrence had exerted a considerable influence on his own life experience. He also observed that in the therapeutic process of his patients such events repeatedly played a role, sometimes a powerful one, especially in periods of crisis and transformation. The dramatic coincidence of meaning between an inner state and a simultaneous external event seemed to bring forth in the individual a healing movement toward psychological wholeness, mediated by the unexpected integration of inner and outer realities. Such events often engendered a new sense of personal orientation in a world now seen as capable of embodying purposes and meanings beyond the mere projections of human subjectivity. The random chaos of life suddenly appeared to veil a deeper order. A subtle sign, as it were, had been given, an unexpected color in the pale void of meaning - an intimation, in William James's phrase, of "something more."
You may also find interesting the "golden scarab" case, as described by C.G.Jung:
http://books.google.com/books?id=k3...51&dq=golden
Hope this helps,
Roman |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2009 : 5:13:42 PM
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All I can say is that you feel just the same as I do at a given point in time. There seems to be an infinite pendulum swing going from moments of strong Faith followed by an equal swing towards lack of Faith and you just have to ride that wave. I think it becomes easier and harder. Easier because if you looked back at where you started the journey you could overcome any lack of faith by the progress made to date, but harder because the path is higher now and it's hard to compare where you are now with where you were at the start.
I do it like cleaning my teeth without any expectations. Its a bit like learning anything, at the start there is amazing progress, then as you refine and grow more skilled it takes increasing concentration and practise to achieve tiny changes. You can have awful practise days that make you feel you are getting nowhere for weeks at a time, only to find when you get to apoint of 'ah well I will probably never learn this, but I will keep practising because something must happen' and suddenly it clicks.
I like the analogy of an Egg. When it is first hatched it is a big new thing and very exciting, inside something is happening but you cant see it. For weeks you watch expectantly and nothing seems to be happening, the more intently you watch, the more starkly dissappointing it becomes. You become bored and look less frequently and suddenly one day there is a chick and a broken shell. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2009 : 11:31:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheila
Shanti – the problem may indeed be my self-conceived notion of bhakti/faith. In your post, you write with certainty that “life knows what it is doing” and “the stillness knows what is right for me”. This certainty is the faith I seek - to develop an abiding trust in this stillness/being/intelligence and to accept what life offers me. But if I understand the forum, I think the response is that the trust/faith may be a consequence of the practice.
Yes trust and faith will happen with practice. You can add some fuel to the fire with self inquiry. Yogani's Self Inquiry book is really good. Consciously go through a part of your day making mental notes of how much actually happens as you plan or what your memory and imagination though it was going to be like. When you see how your mind really does not control how the moments of your life happens (and don't listen to the explanations the mind gives why things did not go as it had predicted or planned ).. you kinda see thru the mind stories.
Have you read "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie. It helped me a lot to learn to let go. To accept things as they are. At first the trust is very mechanical, dry.. but as you keep up your practice and purify and open and continue with self inquiry.. you have small windows of "ahhaa!!".. and that will increase your trust and faith and it will be more of "Loving" what is than "accepting" what is. It is a process... wont happen (to most) overnight.
Thanks for asking, asking really is the first step into an opening. At times we get so caught up in mind and so caught up in a fixed way of thinking that it is hard to see things differently.. but when we ask and read the way other people think, we can break that loop of thoughts we sometimes get stuck in. It gives us a way to look at the same thing from another angle. This is an opening.. and will help.
Wish you all the best Sheila. |
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How to fuel faith?
