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Neptune
99 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 20 2008 : 7:49:05 PM
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I was at a Buddhist meditation retreat for 4 days last week, and progressed well at staying aware of the breath in sitting meditations, not being distracted off the awareness of the breath for entire 45 minute sittings. Over the course of this retreat, during the sitting meditations, I would cease to exist. I was no longer aware of the body, the breath, or any bodily sensations, and would disappear to the senses completely for an entire 45 minute sitting, only to be brought back to duality by the bell rung at the end of sittings. It was as if time stopped, because there was no awareness of time. I could have been in this state for a minute though the clock showed it was 40 minutes. I was sitting, and no head bobbling nor snoring according to my companion sitting next to me during the retreat. I don't think it was sleep. So what is this state? Is it Nirvikalpa samadhi? Can anyne tell me? Christi?
thanks,
neptune |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2008 : 9:22:27 PM
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Hi, technically that would be called Savikapla samadhi, I believe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savikalpa) - i.e. complete absorption in pure bliss consciousness.
Nirvikalpa would mean merging that state with daily activity and every other state of consciousness = unity.
Take care. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 08:59:28 AM
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namaste my friend,
that state of being is becoming a very common experience with me now and then where i am experiencing Savikalpa and nirvikalpa samadhi during practices.
but just to point out, there is something much more beautiful than those experiences far beyond what is imagined and i've been blessed by it's experience once in one of my meditation sessions it was all at once a mixture of bliss, samadhi, ecstasy... you name it all that is nice.
now if that could be experimented on a continuing basis and shared with others; then that's heaven on earth. (enlightenment in my humble opinion)
continue what you're doing, cz it seems working pretty well and it's a great sign of progress :)
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 6:58:22 PM
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Thanks for the information Tadeas and Ananda.
How about Turiya? Is that the same as either Nirvikalpa or Salvikalpa samadhi?
neptune |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 7:56:50 PM
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| Hi Neptune, I think in AYP terms turiya would be the same thing as pure bliss consciousness. It's used to describe a different aspect of reality than nirvikalpa or savikalpa samadhi. When you feel inner silence that's turiya. It can be there 24/7 or it doesn't have to. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 8:03:57 PM
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Hey, Neptune, Turiya would permeate and encompass every samadhi, bliss, the physical, mental, dream, gross, subtle, causal, etc. Turiya is that state of Pure Consciousness. It is the merging of ecstacy, bliss, love and silence simutaneously and everything else without distinction. Some call this the soul's Soul, as a matter of distinction in the sense of being the state of highest consciousness itself. If a person experienced Turiya they could be completely within the moment, with silence, and could simutaneously be aware/in control of the physical, mental, dream realms - using these realities to bring others to a higher state of consciousness. It's an abstract/universal reality that we cannot fathom and is usually attributed to Avatars, such as Krishna, Etc:
quote:
The Fourth Aspect is Turiya: The fourth aspect of Atman or Self is Turiya, literally the fourth. In this fourth state, consciousness is neither turned outward nor inward. Nor is it both outward and inward; it is beyond both cognition and the absence of cognition. This fourth state of Turiya cannot be experienced through the senses or known by comparison, deductive reasoning or inference; it is indescribable, incomprehensible, and unthinkable with the mind. This is Pure Consciousness itself. This is the real Self. It is within the cessation of all phenomena. It is serene, tranquil, filled with bliss, and is one without second. This is the real or true Self that is to be realized.
http://www.swamij.com/mandukya-upanishad.htm
quote:
The fourth state is not that which is conscious of the subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, nor that which is all-sentient mass, nor that which is all darkness. It is unseen, transcendent, the sole essence of the consciousness of self, the completion of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
Take care:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 21 2008 8:19:13 PM |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 12:59:56 PM
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Hi VIL
So are you saying that we could'nt experience Turiya unless we are avatars? I thought that was a yogic state that some yogis might be able to get into.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 03:19:19 AM
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Hi Neptune,
There is a topic in the main lessons on the Turya state here:
http://www.aypsite.org/157.html
In it there is a section on what is happening if you keep feeling like you are falling asleep during practices:
quote:
As for falling asleep in samyama, meditation, etc., from the above you can see it is not quite the same as crossing from one state (inner silence) to another state (like sleep). It is not either-or in practices. We can be in both at the same time, which is often the case during meditation especially. That is why we count time we are "lost" in thoughts or no thoughts in meditation as practice time. The purification in the nervous system is going on in these conditions. If we drift off in samyama, we just easily pick up with the sutras where we left off. In that case, we have gone from the sutra off into some blend of inner silence and the subtle flavor of the sutra. When we realize that has happened, we just easily continue from where we left off. The time for getting through samyama can be stretched out a bit if we lose track like that. If something like sleep keeps overcoming us in a particular samyama session, we can just call it done and lie down and rest. This is good samyama also. It can happen if a lot of obstructions are being released. Inner silence is being cultivated throughout the whole procedure, so, again, it is not one state of consciousness or the other. It is rising inner silence with whatever else is going on.
Christi |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 10:12:23 AM
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i've experienced turya once, but i don't consider myself to be anywhere close to an avatar .
nor do i consider yogani and a lot of the other enlightened out there.
so i don't think it's a necessity to be an avatar to experience ultimate states of conscionsness.
namaste,
Ananda |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 10:46:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
i've experienced turya once, but i don't consider myself to be anywhere close to an avatar.
nor do i consider yogani and a lot of the other enlightened out there.
so i don't think it's a necessity to be an avatar to experience ultimate states of conscionsness.
namaste,
Ananda
Hi Ananda:
As the lesson Christi linked points out, turiya is not an ultimate state of consciousness, or an advanced condition we aspire to. It is only inner silence, which everyone touches every time they lose the mantra in deep meditation. It is the ever-present reservoir of stillness within us. As we advance in our practices, it becomes a normal part everyday living. But it is there from the very beginning also. Anyone who has experienced inner silence, a sense of witnessing events from within, knows turiya. Everyone has, yes?
Turiya means, "the fourth state" of consciousness, pointing to an ordinariness, and it is naturally experienced in life along with the other three states: waking, dreaming sleep and deep sleep.
With deep meditation and related practices, we gradually cultivate our nervous system to experience turiya simultaneously with the other three state on an ongoing basis. It is abiding inner silence. So, turiya is not a destination. It is our inner well-spring of peace, energy and creativity that is always available. It is our Self.
A good way to regard turiya is as "living stillness," not as a distant condition of enlightenment. It is only a mantra away, and soon abiding as the witness in all that we do.
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 11:20:34 AM
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hi yogani,
if this is turya, then i've experienced it a lot and it's beautiful and is becoming smthg more often than usual but not so very intense as it first started.
what i was pointing at was an experience of ecstasy plus turya plus everything nice (kindness, love, unity, sugar, evrything sweet....) it was smthg far more than what i imagined.
my heart is singing right now when i recall it, simply put it was heaven on earth and if that's what's being enlightened 24\7 is then i'm ready to walk on glass to achieve it. (but too bad this experience has given me a lot of expectations)
plus by turya i took the meaning which vil pointed out in his post up there so this is why i answered the way i did.
thk you for your beautiful input my friend.
keep on shining.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Nov 23 2008 5:20:11 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 9:00:36 PM
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quote:
what i was pointing at was an experience of ecstasy plus turya plus everything nice (kindness, love, unity, sugar, evrything sweet....) it was smthg far more than what i imagined.
my heart is singing right now when i recall it, simply put it was heaven on earth and if that's what's being enlightened 24\7 is then i'm ready to walk on glass to achieve it. (but too bad this experience has given me a lot of expectations)
plus by turya i took the meaning which vil pointed out in his post up there so this is why i answered the way i did.
Hey, Ananda, that's just my partial view of Turiya and yogani has his and others have theirs. It doesn't really matter. All that matters is that you don't walk on glass: LOL:
Take care:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 23 2008 9:05:24 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 01:28:25 AM
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hehehe don't worry my friend it's just a saying, i've layed it out there the same i do as with my other spiritual experiences hoping they may fire up other people's bhakti.
i see you haven't mentioned anything about the avatar point, so do you think i might be one
cz really ever since i was a kid, i've felt deep inside that i am here to share something with others... (now i'm talking koukou  lolz)
namaste my friend, and a good friend you are.
god bless,
Ananda
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 09:20:47 AM
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Hi Ananda,
quote:
i see you haven't mentioned anything about the avatar point, so do you think i might be one
cz really ever since i was a kid, i've felt deep inside that i am here to share something with others... (now i'm talking koukou lolz)
I am sure you are one!
An avatar is simply someone who became enlightened in a previous life, and decided to come back again to help others. That doesn't mean that they don't have to go through the whole awakening thing again... they do. But it is easier for them, because they have done it all before. 
Most avatars don't say they are an avatar, because they are too humble. But I think if we really knew how many of them there are amongst us on the earth at this time, we would be amazed.
Christi |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 10:25:24 AM
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hello Christy , you've got me laughing hard hehehe and if this fact is true then i would be honored of being one or even a quarter of a one in comparison to the buddha or ramakrishna...
and if i am to choose who is the best candidate for being an avatar around ayp; i'd choose you my friend no doubt about it.
kindest regards,
Ananda
p.s.: we are all in the presence of an avatar at the ayp site; one who has a beautiful soul and a giving and very kind heart "yogani."
even though you don't like praise yogani, but you deserve it my friend cz the work you've made is simply put "Divine." |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 8:22:32 PM
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Hi Christi and Ananda,
I checked with Wikipedia, which confirms what my notion of the term avatar stands for. My understanding of the term avatar, is that God deliberately descends into becoming a human being at a crucial juncture in Human history as a savior to make things right with the world, and this God-Man has superhuman qualities. Krishna and Buddha are considered avatars of Vishnu. Sounds like Jesus Christ is sometimes included in this group.
I just think you are using the term improperly. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 02:35:22 AM
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Hi Neptune,
I am sure Ananda and I were only joking!
There are some very famous avatars, like the incarnations of Vishnu, and Jesus Christ. But there are millions of other avatars that are not so famous, but are all working in the universe to help in the Divine plan.
You may find this quote interesting:
"According to the Puranas countless numbers of avatars descend into our universe.[1] Theologically within Vaishnavism the many avatars have been categorised into a number of different types depending on their specific personality and role as described in scripture. Not all are recognised as 'full' or 'direct' incarnations of Vishnu. Some avatars are believed to be souls blessed with certain abilities of 'divine origin', although being a jiva themselves. "
http://colours.eu/avatar_en.html
Basically some aspect of the power and light of Heaven must be involved in the incarnation of the soul, for that person to be an avatar.
Christi
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 08:00:16 AM
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hi neptune,
it's true this is the right definition of the word avatar, and me and Christy are laughing at the fact that we might be one it was all just some kidding arround.
yet still i think that Christy will turn out be a great teacher of truth.
but the word avatar isn't so narrow in it's explanation, take for example vivekananda the student of ramakrishna.
i consider him to be an avatar and he was known to ramakrishna b4 he came to birth that he would spread truth in a manner never done b4 so publicly and so he did and introduced truth to the west.
plus there are a lot of avatars out there, a lot of suffis and christian saints are ones in my humble opinion.
there is a living one now today in Tunis, his name is Aabdel kassem bel kheiry.
i don't know why, but people's bhakti gets so wild up that when they sit next to him and have a glance they experience samadhi bliss. (the suffis call al jazeb; being pulled toward god like a magnet)
now concerning my case, i'm very certain that i'm not one.
i simply do not fit the lifestyle that most of these guys had.
the only difference about me is that i had a lot of spiritual stuff going on with me since early as i can remember during my childhood and it was all spontaneous. (maybe it's grace from god, maybe past life practices who knows)
ans when i was speaking about that deep urge to share smthg i wasn't kidding, i am living with it right now and thk god i finally found smthg beautiful to share with others and hopefully in the future their will be more.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Nov 25 2008 1:13:42 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 08:06:22 AM
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oh by the way, in my personal opinion concerning yogani.
the work he has done, is concidered enough for him to be called an avatar a teacher all the good titles you name it.
this work is a breakthrough in history, thk god i stumbled upon it; cz it saved me from a lot of trouble and bills plus a lot of time abroad away from my loved ones.
Ananda |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 12:00:41 PM
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Hi Ananda and Christi,
I guess like so much of what we discuss, words are kind of clunky and inexact to describe things. And I guess the meaning of words changes as the times change. But even so, I think it's nice to follow the conventional use of words so we all know what we're discussing with each other because that helps make communicating as exact as possible with each other.
So in other words, when people talk about "avatars" using the traditionally accepted usage, that means a being who is an incarnation of God, totally free of all karmic debt, with superhuman powers, and sent by God to help mankind at some critical time for the human race. And the rest of us are on a different category because we have many lifetimes of karma to work out.
So I think we can agree to some special meaning for some words if we all agree and understand what we mean by that, but on the other hand why not stick to what everybody expects without having to be coached?
I would prefer to think of us advanced though still imperfect yogis as maybe saints rather than assuming that any of us are totally God.
That's just what I understand about the english language and how it works.
Sorry to want to use correct usage of words. I was brought up that way.
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 12:27:53 PM
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Hi All:
Here is the paragraph for "avatar" from the AYP Glossary of Sanskrit Terms, which is not guaranteed to be a perfect match with traditional definitions:
quote:
Avatar – Means, “incarnation of God in human form.” Also is regarded to mean a spiritual savior of humankind. The birth of an avatar is sometimes foretold beforehand, and he or she typically undergoes the trials of achieving final enlightenment, and then takes on a mission to help many others advance spiritually. Well known avatars in the East include Krishna and Buddha, and in the West, Jesus. Many avatars have come to earth, and most are little known. Everyone has the inherent ability to become an avatar because everyone contains the same divine potential. The primary mission of an avatar is to show us that this is so.
Actually, I thought "avatars" were those little animated figures people pose as in "real-as-life" video games. Incarnations of divine us, right? Are we living in a video game?
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 1:20:21 PM
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good post yogani.
just want to clarify smthg; i edited the post where i mentioned the tunnisian suffi bcz in it there was a mistake due to fast writing which could be interpreted that i've met this suffi. (which i didn't even though i hope one day i could me such a saint)
and thk you Neptune for the nice lesson in english  .
Ananda |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 3:21:19 PM
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quote:
yogai: Actually, I thought "avatars" were those little animated figures people pose as in "real-as-life" video games. Incarnations of divine us, right? Are we living in a video game?
The guru is in you.
(LOL) I looked up avatars and there is one called "kalki, the machine man", so maybe you're right on, yogani:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 25 2008 3:22:18 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 01:45:47 AM
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Hi Neptune,
quote:
So in other words, when people talk about "avatars" using the traditionally accepted usage, that means a being who is an incarnation of God, totally free of all karmic debt, with superhuman powers, and sent by God to help mankind at some critical time for the human race. And the rest of us are on a different category because we have many lifetimes of karma to work out...
So I think we can agree to some special meaning for some words if we all agree and understand what we mean by that, but on the other hand why not stick to what everybody expects without having to be coached?
There is often a lot of misunderstanding around Sanskrit spiritual terms, especially among people who have not studied the Sanskrit texts. In these cases it is better to clear up the misunderstanding, rather than to perpetuate it by continuing to mis-use the words. Avatar is one word which people often mis-understand, believing that an avatar is essentially something different from them, something that they could never be. People also often believe that avatars are extremely rare, which is another common misconception which needs to be clarified.
Because avatars are, by their nature, able to bring the supernal light of heaven into the material dimension, they are able to manifest supernatural powers if they choose to. They always manifest the supernal light as divine love, radiating into the world. Many choose not to demonstrate any other powers, as they are seen to be a distraction.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Nov 26 2008 02:25:18 AM |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 06:54:00 AM
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Hi Christi and Yogani,
I think this is all semantics. The idea is this: a particular term in a language has an agreed upon meaning. The reason for that is so we can all communicate using words and kind of avoid confusion when we talk to each other. Or you can say like some politician said "That all depends on what the definition of is, is."
And you can rewrite your own dictionary and make up new definitions if you want. And the meaning of words does change in common usage like the term avatar as is now being applied to computer generated images on video games I suppose.
But on the other hand, I do think it's appropriate to adhere to the commonly accepted meaning of words in use today.
That said, I still am just expressing what the majority of people understand when someone says the word Avatar. This is just an issue about language not about avatars.
so I sense you want to redefine that term, and I'm OK with that. It's your website not mine. I'm just a visitor.
I'm not sure why you seem to have an axe to grind on this issue.
The question as to how many times God has descended as Man, like Jesus and Krishna to help mankind, is a little like debating how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. |
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Neptune
99 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 07:51:56 AM
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| Besides what difference does it make? It;s pretty dualistic to talk about God descending and becoming Man or Woman to help the Human race. It doesn't square with Advaita at all. The whole concept of avatars is kind of stupid and irrelevant to us yogis sitting on our cushions and trying to open our hearts and just to be able to help each other. That's all that matters. The proof is in that pudding. |
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Is this Nirvikalpa Samadhi?
