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neli
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 12:55:10 AM
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I was reading this, and thought that it has a sound meaning:
1. Sahasrara or the Crown, corresponds to Keter
2. Ajna or the third eye corresponds to Binah & Chokmah
3. Vishuddha or the throat corresponds to Gevurah and Chesed.
4. Ahanhata or the heart corresponds to Tiferet
5. Manipura or the navel, where Hod corresponds to the Liver and
Netzach corresponds to the Stomach
6. Svadhistana or the genitals corresponds to Yesod
7. Muladhara, the base of spine, corresponds to Malkhut
I just read this, as well:
*In Kabbalah, an
individual whose all chakras have fully and permanently awakened would be
called the Messiah.*
This means that its almost impossible for us to awaken all the chakras.
We can feel movement in the chakras, but that doesn't mean that it has opened, I have felt many times movement in the Ajna and at the Crown, but I don't think it has awakened, by the way, how can we notice if a chakra is awakened ?? by the movement ? or the ecstasies ?
I know that each chakra can open by themselves without a pattern, I mean, the crown can be awakened first and then the others.(that could be terrible)
Have all the gurus awakened all their chakras? if so, are they like Messiah ?? It can take a life to awaken a couple of chakras, or even just one.
So the Messiah is related to the opening of chakras and the extraordinary powers that they can perform.
How can we notice a full awakening of a chakra ?
Namaste
Neli
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 03:04:17 AM
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Hi Neli
quote:
I was reading this, and thought that it has a sound meaning:
1. Sahasrara or the Crown, corresponds to Keter
2. Ajna or the third eye corresponds to Binah & Chokmah
3. Vishuddha or the throat corresponds to Gevurah and Chesed.
4. Ahanhata or the heart corresponds to Tiferet
5. Manipura or the navel, where Hod corresponds to the Liver and
Netzach corresponds to the Stomach
6. Svadhistana or the genitals corresponds to Yesod
7. Muladhara, the base of spine, corresponds to Malkhut
I just read this, as well:
*In Kabbalah, an
individual whose all chakras have fully and permanently awakened would be
called the Messiah.*
This means that its almost impossible for us to awaken all the chakras.
Great post!
I think you are confusing the meaning of the word "Messiah" here. In Hebrew it simply means "annointed one" so it is anyone who has been annointed. Of course in the sentence above about chakras opening and the term Messiah, it refers to anyone who has been annointed by the grace of God.
Personally I think the line would make more sense if it said:
"Anyone who's chakras have fully awakened and in whom the divine union has decended to the heart and taken up it's seat there, is a Messiah"
It would fit better with the way the word Messiah is used in the Bible.
It can take a whole lifetime to open one or two chakras, or they can all be opened in one lifetime (or in just a few years). It depends on the person, and on what spiritual practices they are doing.
You know when chakras are opening because you can feel them, and because of the effects that are produced (ecstasies etc.).
Christi |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 1:45:13 PM
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quote:
neli: I know that each chakra can open by themselves without a pattern, I mean, the crown can be awakened first and then the others.(that could be terrible)
Hey, neli, Kabbalah is spoken soley from the crown perspective. And it's difficult to wade through the superstition, because there is a lot of symbolism and different perspectives, as to what message was truly conveyed by the Torah and Zohar. Everyone has their own view of what it means to incorporate the universal energy, as symbolized by Adam Kadmon (the primordial man), as it descends from keter to malchut.
The kabbalists call the descent of this energy "grace", but it's actually something that the Yogis have known of for a very long time, which is accessing the primordial vibration through meditative practice. This is called Yoga Nidra - and not the relaxation technique, imagination practice, or cds that are often associated with yoga nidra. But the true state where the actual universal samskaras or encountered on a causal, subtle, conscious level. It is a very powerful practice and shouldn't be embarked upon lightly, since a person is "cleansing the store consciousness"*:
quote:
"The true Yoga Nidra is a state of consciousness in which the yogi is in direct communion with the Divine energy, that may be understood as Dharma, pervading the whole phenomenal Universe and beyond.[citation needed] In the Vaishnava sampradayas this deified "energy" is Vishnu, the sleeping lord. This energy is beyond space and time, allowing the yogi to potentially access by grace, past, present, future and beyond."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Nidra
quote:
*"Store consciousness accumulates all potential energy for the aggregate of the 'bodymind' (Sanskrit: namarupa), the mental (nama) and physical (rupa) manifestation of one's existence, and supplies the substance to all existences. It also receives impressions from all functions of the other consciousnesses and retains them as potential energy for their further manifestations and activities. Since it serves as the basis for the production of the other seven consciousnesses (called the "evolving" or "transforming" consciousnesses), it is also known as the base consciousness (m#363;la-vijñ#257;na) or causal consciousness. Since it serves as the container for all experiential impressions (termed metaphorically as bija or "seeds") - referred to as samskaras in Indian religions - it is also called the seed consciousness (#31278;#23376;#35672;) or container consciousness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_consciousness
Anyway, many associate this cosmic energy to Vishnu, the sleeping lord, since the person is able to enter a dreamless sleep state and directly access the samskaras, the store consciousness, that eventually transform the personality by way of moving from the causal, subtle, gross realms, via meditation, which purify the chakras.
Some separate the energy of the sleeping lord from that of the sleeping serpent, but I consider it them both the same energy just perceptible from different points of origin. One from the crown, the other from the base. The same positive/negative experiences are encountered, whether the energy is directed downward to malchut (the Kingdom of God) or upward to Sahasrara, (the abode of Supernal Consciousness). Both are spoken from the perspecitve of manifestation. And if a person is not prepared it can be terrible, as you noted. yogani takes a more balanced approach thereby preparing the person through steady practice so that excess purification symptoms are avoided, via cosmic samyama.
quote:
neli: We can feel movement in the chakras, but that doesn't mean that it has opened, I have felt many times movement in the Ajna and at the Crown, but I don't think it has awakened, by the way, how can we notice if a chakra is awakened ?? by the movement ? or the ecstasies ?
One person may have the experience from ajna as bliss, another psychic perception, another there is visual phenomenon, another there is command over the body, insight, intuition, knowingness... and I'm sure there is subtleties beyond these experiences. The way that I look at it, as Christi said, it depends on the person.
Take care:
VIL |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 04:38:50 AM
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Christi,
You are right, in hebrew Messiah means *annointed one*
Maybe it fits better as in the bible, like *enlightened one*
Your quote is wonderful!!
I can feel the opening of a chakra, by the ecstasies, but how am I gonna know that its completely opened or if it just opened a little bit ??
I mean how can we know that a chakra is totally opened ?
Why the movements are always in the Ajna and the Crown, not in other areas ?
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli
quote:
I was reading this, and thought that it has a sound meaning:
1. Sahasrara or the Crown, corresponds to Keter
2. Ajna or the third eye corresponds to Binah & Chokmah
3. Vishuddha or the throat corresponds to Gevurah and Chesed.
4. Ahanhata or the heart corresponds to Tiferet
5. Manipura or the navel, where Hod corresponds to the Liver and
Netzach corresponds to the Stomach
6. Svadhistana or the genitals corresponds to Yesod
7. Muladhara, the base of spine, corresponds to Malkhut
I just read this, as well:
*In Kabbalah, an
individual whose all chakras have fully and permanently awakened would be
called the Messiah.*
This means that its almost impossible for us to awaken all the chakras.
Great post!
I think you are confusing the meaning of the word "Messiah" here. In Hebrew it simply means "annointed one" so it is anyone who has been annointed. Of course in the sentence above about chakras opening and the term Messiah, it refers to anyone who has been annointed by the grace of God.
Personally I think the line would make more sense if it said:
"Anyone who's chakras have fully awakened and in whom the divine union has decended to the heart and taken up it's seat there, is a Messiah"
It would fit better with the way the word Messiah is used in the Bible.
It can take a whole lifetime to open one or two chakras, or they can all be opened in one lifetime (or in just a few years). It depends on the person, and on what spiritual practices they are doing.
You know when chakras are opening because you can feel them, and because of the effects that are produced (ecstasies etc.).
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 05:15:25 AM
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VIL
I don't think that the Kabbalah speaks only from the crown perspective, but it can be their priority.
In Kabbalah all the *chakras* or sefirots are considered important, even the lower ones.
That's true its called *Grace* in Kabbalah, the same as the Holy Spirit descend.
Thanks for the link of the Yoga nidra, its great.
I have felt the energy of the sleeping lord, and is very different from the sleeping serpent, I mean I think they are not the same, they make us feel very different sensations, as one is of *grace*, and the other is just climbing up to the crown. maybe it turns down to the base, but I feel them like two different energies. One is very subtle, the other one is rough, sometimes is not rough, but its not like *grace*
I think in each person is different, also we feel different sensations all the time, but why always on the crown or ajna ?
Maybe the crown awakens first, and then the others......why not?
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by VIL
quote:
neli: I know that each chakra can open by themselves without a pattern, I mean, the crown can be awakened first and then the others.(that could be terrible)
Hey, neli, Kabbalah is spoken soley from the crown perspective. And it's difficult to wade through the superstition, because there is a lot of symbolism and different perspectives, as to what message was truly conveyed by the Torah and Zohar. Everyone has their own view of what it means to incorporate the universal energy, as symbolized by Adam Kadmon (the primordial man), as it descends from keter to malchut.
The kabbalists call the descent of this energy "grace", but it's actually something that the Yogis have known of for a very long time, which is accessing the primordial vibration through meditative practice. This is called Yoga Nidra - and not the relaxation technique, imagination practice, or cds that are often associated with yoga nidra. But the true state where the actual universal samskaras or encountered on a causal, subtle, conscious level. It is a very powerful practice and shouldn't be embarked upon lightly, since a person is "cleansing the store consciousness"*:
quote:
"The true Yoga Nidra is a state of consciousness in which the yogi is in direct communion with the Divine energy, that may be understood as Dharma, pervading the whole phenomenal Universe and beyond.[citation needed] In the Vaishnava sampradayas this deified "energy" is Vishnu, the sleeping lord. This energy is beyond space and time, allowing the yogi to potentially access by grace, past, present, future and beyond."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Nidra
quote:
*"Store consciousness accumulates all potential energy for the aggregate of the 'bodymind' (Sanskrit: namarupa), the mental (nama) and physical (rupa) manifestation of one's existence, and supplies the substance to all existences. It also receives impressions from all functions of the other consciousnesses and retains them as potential energy for their further manifestations and activities. Since it serves as the basis for the production of the other seven consciousnesses (called the "evolving" or "transforming" consciousnesses), it is also known as the base consciousness (m#363;la-vijñ#257;na) or causal consciousness. Since it serves as the container for all experiential impressions (termed metaphorically as bija or "seeds") - referred to as samskaras in Indian religions - it is also called the seed consciousness (#31278;#23376;#35672;) or container consciousness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_consciousness
Anyway, many associate this cosmic energy to Vishnu, the sleeping lord, since the person is able to enter a dreamless sleep state and directly access the samskaras, the store consciousness, that eventually transform the personality by way of moving from the causal, subtle, gross realms, via meditation, which purify the chakras.
Some separate the energy of the sleeping lord from that of the sleeping serpent, but I consider it them both the same energy just perceptible from different points of origin. One from the crown, the other from the base. The same positive/negative experiences are encountered, whether the energy is directed downward to malchut (the Kingdom of God) or upward to Sahasrara, (the abode of Supernal Consciousness). Both are spoken from the perspecitve of manifestation. And if a person is not prepared it can be terrible, as you noted. yogani takes a more balanced approach thereby preparing the person through steady practice so that excess purification symptoms are avoided, via cosmic samyama.
quote:
neli: We can feel movement in the chakras, but that doesn't mean that it has opened, I have felt many times movement in the Ajna and at the Crown, but I don't think it has awakened, by the way, how can we notice if a chakra is awakened ?? by the movement ? or the ecstasies ?
One person may have the experience from ajna as bliss, another psychic perception, another there is visual phenomenon, another there is command over the body, insight, intuition, knowingness... and I'm sure there is subtleties beyond these experiences. The way that I look at it, as Christi said, it depends on the person.
Take care:
VIL
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 08:17:33 AM
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quote:
neli: Maybe the crown awakens first, and then the others......why not?
LOL: (no comment):
quote:
neli: I don't think that the Kabbalah speaks only from the crown perspective, but it can be their priority.
In Kabbalah all the *chakras* or sefirots are considered important, even the lower ones.
That's true its called *Grace* in Kabbalah, the same as the Holy Spirit descend.
Kabbalists do focus soley on the crown via intense study courses, contemplation on the 72 names of G-d, prayer, meditation, etc., so that the person experiences "grace", from the crown. Without this grace, kabbalists consider it impossible for the person to understand the deeper meaning of the Torah and Zohar, let alone the lower sephirot. I was attempting to do away with some of the superstition surrounding the term and experience, by showing that what some consider grace isn't really a personal religious grace bestowed upon certain lofty individuals, but is a universal experience that can be accessed directly through practice by anyone. The same view that I once held and have since discarded.
So, in other words, a Yogi would not consider it grace, in the sense of attachment, since he's seen through the illusion. Where many kabbalists see it as a form of specialness bestowed upon certain individuals coming directly from G-d.
Take care:
VIL
P.S.: neli, I wanted to also say that prayer and contemplation are a form of action/practice and I should have worded my original post to reflect this by saying: "in my opinion there seems to be more of a focus on the crown" instead of using the word "soley", as if I'm absolute authority on the subject. Anyway, I can't speak for all methods of kabbalah practice and shouldn't have categorize a group either. And so, for that I apologize.
Concerning your energy experiences, I can relate, and they do seem different. But in my opinion, they are the same. To use the familiar analogy of water - which feels different if it's percieved as liquid, vapor, solid, etc.
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Edited by - VIL on Nov 13 2008 6:55:37 PM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 04:46:06 AM
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VIL:
quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kabbalists do focus soley on the crown via intense study courses, contemplation on the 72 names of G-d, prayer, meditation, etc., so that the person experiences "grace", from the crown. Without this grace, kabbalists consider it impossible for the person to understand the deeper meaning of the Torah and Zohar, let alone the lower sephirot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it depends on each kabbalist, as each one of them thinks different. Some of them are more focused on Knowledge than in contemplation on the 72 names of G-d.
Understanding the deeper meaning of the Torah and the Zohar, it's a big thing, there's just a few "true" kabbalists that I have known, others are like *puppetji* gurus, in a sense.
The *grace* state can be accessed by anyone, but not knowledge, a real kabbalist passes his life studying every word and meaning of the kabbalah, it has a lot of magic words, I think its very different than Yoga, cause Yoga looks for enlightenment, and kabbalah looks for knowledge and knowledge brings power and also enlightenment.
In kabbalah you are manipulating the energies, instead of being manipulated by them as in the case of Yoga. But they can complement each other, in my opinion. It depends on what you want, if to manipulate energies, or being manipulated by them.
neli |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 06:40:53 AM
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Hi Neli
quote:
I can feel the opening of a chakra, by the ecstasies, but how am I gonna know that its completely opened or if it just opened a little bit ??
I mean how can we know that a chakra is totally opened ?
What does it matter? Just enjoy the ecstasies and carry on.
quote:
Why the movements are always in the Ajna and the Crown, not in other areas ?
Because your ajna and crown are opening first. Gradually you will start to feel movements in the other chakras too. You must have felt some already (in your heart?). 
Christi |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 01:16:11 AM
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I agree that we can gain useful information from both systems, neli.
Take care:
VIL |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 03:46:32 AM
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Christi,
Yes I have felt some movements in my heart chakra and also in my stomach, but they are very subtle, so subtle in comparison with the ajna or the crown chakra.
Actually what I have felt more strong is the kind of antennae moving upwards from the base of the spine, far beyond the crown, like if the antennae grew from the base and extended itself to the crown, then surpasses it to the astral planes. Sometimes I feel like a pull of the energy upwards the crown but is the same antennae, pulling the energy outside the crown, like making it larger or bigger, and I feel it mostly not at the crown, but at the back of the head, although it extends itself to the top of the crown.
I enjoy a lot the ecstasies, but now something is enlarging the antennae, and sometimes it feels very strange, I feel sometimes like a conehead, hahaha
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli
quote:
I can feel the opening of a chakra, by the ecstasies, but how am I gonna know that its completely opened or if it just opened a little bit ??
I mean how can we know that a chakra is totally opened ?
What does it matter? Just enjoy the ecstasies and carry on.
quote:
Why the movements are always in the Ajna and the Crown, not in other areas ?
Because your ajna and crown are opening first. Gradually you will start to feel movements in the other chakras too. You must have felt some already (in your heart?).
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 04:20:10 AM
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VIL,
Very useful information, I think Kabbalah is a sacred Knowledge, if you can handle this knowledge you can become like *God*, but its also dangerous if not used properly, as some words are to make move some energies, or to be opened, and one has to have the control over them, otherwise it can be very dangerous. *Everything has a risk*.
I don't think that in Yoga people can manipulate the energy, unless they are far advanced, I think mostly that they are being manipulated by the energy. In Tummo Reiki it can be very different, maybe they can manipulate the energy, I have seen this a lot.
Kundalini is just one energy (like a door) but there are many doors out there.
The 72 names of G-d are strong energies waiting to be manipulated by people who knows the secrets of the meaning of each name and the way to make them work. they are doors that can be opened by the wise man.
And they are at your service. I mean you are the master, not being mastered by them.
Take care
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by VIL
I agree that we can gain useful information from both systems, neli.
Take care:
VIL
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 08:12:32 AM
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Hi Neli,
quote:
I enjoy a lot the ecstasies, but now something is enlarging the antennae, and sometimes it feels very strange, I feel sometimes like a conehead,
There are two aspects to the sahasrara chakra. One aspect is like a bowl surrounded by petals. This can be turned downwards when the chakra is closed, or the whole bowl can turn upwards, and the petals can curl up when the chakra opens. Each petal can unfold individually. The other aspect to the crown chakra is a cone shaped vortex of swirling energy, with the smaller point touching your head, and the open end up in the air above your head.
Christi,
p.s. There are different aspects to the Kabala. The magical Kabala involves manipulating energy, and the complentative Kabala is more like what we do here at AYP. The complentative Kabala probably leads more directly to enlightenment, with less danger of distraction on the way. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 04:51:56 AM
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Christi,
Time ago I felt the bowl sensation, not now, the only thing I can feel now, is the antennae that enlarges upwards and the kind of conehead at the crown, sometimes the pull of the energy is strong, and it bothers, but there is no pain. I haven't felt the petals.
The problem with the contemplative kabbalah is that one can be taken by an energy that we don't know. On the contrary is with the magical one, cause we know what we are evoking. I think the risk is the same.
thanks for the info.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
quote:
I enjoy a lot the ecstasies, but now something is enlarging the antennae, and sometimes it feels very strange, I feel sometimes like a conehead,
There are two aspects to the sahasrara chakra. One aspect is like a bowl surrounded by petals. This can be turned downwards when the chakra is closed, or the whole bowl can turn upwards, and the petals can curl up when the chakra opens. Each petal can unfold individually. The other aspect to the crown chakra is a cone shaped vortex of swirling energy, with the smaller point touching your head, and the open end up in the air above your head.
Christi,
p.s. There are different aspects to the Kabala. The magical Kabala involves manipulating energy, and the complentative Kabala is more like what we do here at AYP. The complentative Kabala probably leads more directly to enlightenment, with less danger of distraction on the way.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 08:44:08 AM
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Hi Neli,
quote:
The problem with the contemplative kabbalah is that one can be taken by an energy that we don't know. On the contrary is with the magical one, cause we know what we are evoking. I think the risk is the same.
You have me confused now. I have always thought that we don't know the energies that we are dealing with, either with the contemplative kabbalah or with the magical kabbalah. Can you really say that you know the energies of magic?
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Nov 19 2008 08:17:02 AM |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 12:12:34 PM
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Just wanted to add that in Kabbalah they also somehow use the seven lower or animal chakras also called the seven roots of the tree of life as opposed to its seven branches. Same thing in european alchemy
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 04:39:48 AM
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Christi,
In Kabbalah (of course I'm not an expert) the 72 names of G-d are energies, one must know the meaning of each one of them, of course its impossible to know them all, maybe a "true" kabbalist can know a few of them, but impossible to know all of them.
By example the word Da'ath means knowledge, attracts knowledge, and all its branches, although this is not one of the names of God. When one evoke the da'ath deva, the energy of knowledge begins to work, and to come inside us, to master it is another thing, it takes time.
Many of the magic energies are mere product of the Kundalini awakening. But "real" magic is not a byproduct of the Kundalini, but of evocations of some magical words, like in the kabbalah.
In Kundalini we know that there is an energy that is transforming us from the inside, but I don't think we know well this energy, cause its effects are sometimes brutal, I mean very strong to the body, I think also that we are *taken* by this energy by surprise, without us looking out for it, without our permission, as if we were possessed by this energy, and we cannot put it off, cause we are possessed by Shakti once she awakens. All we can do is to surrender. Like prisoners of the Shakti energy, in fact, we are prisioners of this energy. We are prisoners of the brutal effects that sometimes she can have upon us without us being sometimes aware of.
Most of the times Shakti takes us by surprise. Of course we can have wonderful ecstasies, but we cannot forget the other effects.
Yesterday I forgot to do the fingers mudra, and my fingers began to freeze, I felt them like pieces of ice, till I made the mudra again,they warmed as normal. I was defeating the energy to proof the strenght of it, and it was tremendous.
On the contrary is Kabbalah, cause the energy won't possesses anyone, the kabbalist will try to master the energy, whatever he choose to master. Well I'm just a student of Kabbalah, not an expert, its just my opinion.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
quote:
The problem with the contemplative kabbalah is that one can be taken by an energy that we don't know. On the contrary is with the magical one, cause we know what we are evoking. I think the risk is the same.
You have me confused now. I have always thought that we don't know the energies thet we are dealing with, either with the contemplative kabbalah or with the magical kabbalah. Can you really say that you know the energies of magic?
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 04:48:39 AM
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Markern
I think all nadis or chakras or energy's centers like that of the Kabbalah, play an important role to manipulate the energy or what we call "magic". What I like of Kabbalah is that one is the master, not being mastered by the energy that sometimes takes you by surprise.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by markern
Just wanted to add that in Kabbalah they also somehow use the seven lower or animal chakras also called the seven roots of the tree of life as opposed to its seven branches. Same thing in european alchemy
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 08:31:27 AM
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Hi Neli,
quote:
In Kundalini we know that there is an energy that is transforming us from the inside, but I don't think we know well this energy, cause its effects are sometimes brutal, I mean very strong to the body, I think also that we are *taken* by this energy by surprise, without us looking out for it, without our permission, as if we were possessed by this energy, and we cannot put it off, cause we are possessed by Shakti once she awakens. All we can do is to surrender. Like prisoners of the Shakti energy, in fact, we are prisioners of this energy. We are prisoners of the brutal effects that sometimes she can have upon us without us being sometimes aware of.
Most of the times Shakti takes us by surprise. Of course we can have wonderful ecstasies, but we cannot forget the other effects.
Yesterday I forgot to do the fingers mudra, and my fingers began to freeze, I felt them like pieces of ice, till I made the mudra again,they warmed as normal. I was defeating the energy to proof the strenght of it, and it was tremendous.
On the contrary is Kabbalah, cause the energy won't possesses anyone, the kabbalist will try to master the energy, whatever he choose to master. Well I'm just a student of Kabbalah, not an expert, its just my opinion.
Kundalini only has negative effects on the person if it is not worked with in an intelligent way. This means understanding how it works on the body/ mind, and how it can be managed using effective practices. It does not need to be a painfull process, and certainly one does not need to feel possessed by it.
I am also just a student of the Kabbalah, but I am sure that you will find that the energy that transforms the Kabbalah practitioner is the same energy that transforms the yogi. In the Kabbalah it just goes by different names. They call it the fire snake, the fiery intelligence or the fire of God. They say that there are two aspects to the fiery intelligence, one which rises and one which descends. They say that when these two energies are activated and they merge in the individual, a third force is produced, which is the supernal light (Ain Sof Or). Yogani says that when Siva descends to merge with Shakti, it produces outpouring divine love.
The closer you get to God, the more everything starts to look the same!
Christi |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2008 : 04:44:49 AM
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Christi,
You are very right, we feel the bad effects if we don't work the energy with intelligence. The problem is that it can take years, and years, for us to understand what is happening to our bodies, even if we practice some sort of meditation, cause we are unaware of the energy, we know that something is happening, but we don't know what is it, till it begins to get mad or strong? on us and begins to makes us feel the brutal effects that some people have had. I have heard hundreds of cases of the bad symptoms. In my case it was subtle, but even when I knew that it was the K energy, I felt a kind of anxiety that made me feel bad, but it was only at the beginning, but even now if I try to stop her or challenge her, I begin immediately to feel bad, mostly with cold, I feel like freezing when resisting her commands. I challenge the energy cause I think in some way that the energy most be mastered by us, not being mastered by it, well maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I force her to move where I want her to go, and sometimes I feel her moving slowly where I command her to move, so in my opinion we can handle this energy. Sometimes not, maybe she is proving me, maybe, but we must know of what she is capable of, don't you think so ?? We have to *know* her, understand her, and if possible to master her, in my opinion.
Of course its lovely to feel possessed by Shakti,(when in ecstasy) but I think it would be better if we can master the energy. We can avoid many bad symptoms if we try to know her better.
About Kabbalah, yeah I think it can be the same energy, but awakened in a different way, cause in Kabbalah we don't feel the bad symptoms that Shakti can brings us (at the beginning).
The work of Siva is the more sacred work, when he descends, is pure ecstasy and love, Shakti have to work so hard to make Siva move and downpour.
There are many ways to reach God, once we are near, it doesn't matter the path we took. All are blessed if we get to him.
The more love we feel the more near we are to God. This is very true.
kind regards
Neli
Kundalini only has negative effects on the person if it is not worked with in an intelligent way. This means understanding how it works on the body/ mind, and how it can be managed using effective practices. It does not need to be a painfull process, and certainly one does not need to feel possessed by it.
I am also just a student of the Kabbalah, but I am sure that you will find that the energy that transforms the Kabbalah practitioner is the same energy that transforms the yogi. In the Kabbalah it just goes by different names. They call it the fire snake, the fiery intelligence or the fire of God. They say that there are two aspects to the fiery intelligence, one which rises and one which descends. They say that when these two energies are activated and they merge in the individual, a third force is produced, which is the supernal light (Ain Sof Or). Yogani says that when Siva descends to merge with Shakti, it produces outpouring divine love.
The closer you get to God, the more everything starts to look the same!
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 02:21:52 AM
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Hi Neli,
quote:
About Kabbalah, yeah I think it can be the same energy, but awakened in a different way, cause in Kabbalah we don't feel the bad symptoms that Shakti can brings us (at the beginning).
Are you saying that all practitioners of the Kabbalah do not experience any problems when they have awakened are being purified by the fire of God?
Christi |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 02:22:05 AM
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Hi Christi,
Maybe some of them, but in my experience I haven't already met anyone that had had bad symptoms while practicing the Kabbalah. But in my opinion their symptoms would be more like a kind of confusion, not physical symptoms. I'm not so sure if it is the same energy that awakens, cause the Kabbalah practicioner is in most of the cases like in a kind of ecstasy state, a light one (in my experience). Maybe the purification is been made in a different way. I know that when Shakti awakens even if one is in Kabbalah or Jhanas, or whatever, it brings up bad symptoms, but a lot of people in Kabbalah or Jhanas attain the divine presence or God without awakening Shakti. I think that Shakti is a path to attain God, but not a *must*.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
quote:
About Kabbalah, yeah I think it can be the same energy, but awakened in a different way, cause in Kabbalah we don't feel the bad symptoms that Shakti can brings us (at the beginning).
Are you saying that all practitioners of the Kabbalah do not experience any problems when they have awakened are being purified by the fire of God?
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 09:05:05 AM
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Hi Neli,
In my understanding, practitioners of the Kabbalah work more with meditations and visualizations than with forms of pranayama. This means that there is much less stimulation for a kundalini awakening, and when it does happen, it will tend to be less symptomatic bacause of the increased purification that has happened first. Most spiritual traditions work this way... it is a longer route, but safer. Christianity works this way too. So the practitioner will often experience states of ecstasy (which are what we would call bliss states, or samadhi states, long before they experience the awakening of kundalini (the fire snake as they call it).
So there is still the possibility of them having problems as the kundalini awakens, but the chances are less. The same would be true for people working exclusively with jhanas.
Christi |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 12:15:31 PM
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I have a book from that Kabbalah cult Madonna is associated with about the 72 names of God. If i recall properly it is a kind of magical thinking process where you kind of sit with one of the names in your mind and meditation and then it is supposed to do something magical to you. My experience with this Kabbalah cult wasn't extensive but they did keep on phoning me up which i found instrusive because i lost interest in them. So i told them to take me off their list. One of the people that phoned me told me about his experiences with the cult and it sounded dodgy to me like he was brainwashed. They overprice all their stuff and make tons of money off people, most of whom don't seem to get anything back.
This is of course completely different from esoteric authentic Kabbalah traditions. I looked in to this a little but i couldn't find any correlations between the tree of life and the chakras. It just sounded to me like a nice theory.
About kundalini. I don't know if i am experiencing kundalini or ida and pingala energies. To me it just feels like warm intense coolish sensations in and around the back and sometimes going into the shoulders and arms. It comes all by itself without warning at any time, which makes me think it is in control most of the time. However, i can put my attention on various areas of my back and it kind of "comes to life". Is that kundalini? It certainly feels nice but it doesn't feel like an orgasm of volcano like proportions or anything. Maybe i need to meditate more to get that.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 04:57:46 AM
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Hi Christi,
I agree with you on this, practicioners of the Kabbalah don't work or just a few of them, with forms of pranayama.
It's also very true that one can have strong ecstasies without having the awakening of Shakti.
Maybe and I think sometimes that it can be true, the ecstasies are a kind of purification to the body. But a real strong one.
You are very right, I was in Jhanas, feeling strong ecstasies and suddenly the fiery serpent began to crowl over my feet, then over my root chakra, and I was not aware of that till I began to feel bad, mostly very irritable, then it began another kind of symptoms, kind of digestive problems and the always present electricity problems, that I had to put aside the Jhanas meditation. I'm just meditating 40 minutes per day, strange but my body has it own clock.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
In my understanding, practitioners of the Kabbalah work more with meditations and visualizations than with forms of pranayama. This means that there is much less stimulation for a kundalini awakening, and when it does happen, it will tend to be less symptomatic bacause of the increased purification that has happened first. Most spiritual traditions work this way... it is a longer route, but safer. Christianity works this way too. So the practitioner will often experience states of ecstasy (which are what we would call bliss states, or samadhi states, long before they experience the awakening of kundalini (the fire snake as they call it).
So there is still the possibility of them having problems as the kundalini awakens, but the chances are less. The same would be true for people working exclusively with jhanas.
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2008 : 05:40:24 AM
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Gumpi,
I don't know too much about Kabbalah cults, but what I know is that they meditate on the 72 names of God, but they do many things, as rituals, and magical words to open doors or energies. Just look at Aleister Crowley, he was a big kabbalist, although a little mad, hahaha.
People make money on everything, we are on a money world. That's why I went out of the Siddha Yoga, the more money you expend on them, the more you are welcome, and if you don't give you don't have.
I think there is a correlation between the tree of life and chakras, although I am not a kabbalist I know of very serious kabbalist people, that states this correlation.
I think you are having an awakening of Shakti, it takes time to be aware of her work, in my case, it took years till I began to be aware that it was Shakti. The ecstasies or orgasms can be felt in many different traditions, not only in Yoga, as I was in Jhanas, it was for me something usual to feel strong ecstasies till Shakti came in and the ecstasies began to become stable a little bit, and now I feel them less in intensity or maybe more stables.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I have a book from that Kabbalah cult Madonna is associated with about the 72 names of God. If i recall properly it is a kind of magical thinking process where you kind of sit with one of the names in your mind and meditation and then it is supposed to do something magical to you. My experience with this Kabbalah cult wasn't extensive but they did keep on phoning me up which i found instrusive because i lost interest in them. So i told them to take me off their list. One of the people that phoned me told me about his experiences with the cult and it sounded dodgy to me like he was brainwashed. They overprice all their stuff and make tons of money off people, most of whom don't seem to get anything back.
This is of course completely different from esoteric authentic Kabbalah traditions. I looked in to this a little but i couldn't find any correlations between the tree of life and the chakras. It just sounded to me like a nice theory.
About kundalini. I don't know if i am experiencing kundalini or ida and pingala energies. To me it just feels like warm intense coolish sensations in and around the back and sometimes going into the shoulders and arms. It comes all by itself without warning at any time, which makes me think it is in control most of the time. However, i can put my attention on various areas of my back and it kind of "comes to life". Is that kundalini? It certainly feels nice but it doesn't feel like an orgasm of volcano like proportions or anything. Maybe i need to meditate more to get that.
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chakras and the Kabbalah
