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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 11:57:01 AM
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Hi Carson:
It always comes back to our own path and our practice. The more steady we become in that, the less others will be able to intrude. And they will know it by our demeanor.
We attract what we get, and the more in abiding stillness we become, the less adversity we will attract, or notice. That is when karma becomes our friend, for all karma is used by stillness in action for an evolutionary outcome. With the family interactions, you are in the early stages of it now. Your urgency and approach will gradually change as you continue forward in being true to yourself. You will know what to do...
Carry on! 
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 12:10:58 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Do you know this for sure? Cause it seems the exact opposite in my situation. The more silence I find I have, the more my family see's this as their opportunity to convert me. Not the more silence I have the more they leave me alone. The more silence I have, the easier it is to deal with them, but on the other side of that coin is the fact that the more silence I have the more I want to share it or have my family be at peace with my spiritual decisions. I know that the dynamic of this situation will change over time, but I want it to change for the better. I don't want to be the "outcast" uncle/son/brother that is no longer allowed around the family because I am looked upon as evil for following "another" religion. It seems as though nothing short of complete segregation will solve this issue, and to me that isn't a solution it's running away.
Love,
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 12:24:57 PM
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Hi Carson,
Sounds like you've got your hands full with your family there. I am sure they just want to help you though, and who knows... maybe they will.
quote:
6:33 but seek ye first the reign of God and His righteousness, and all these shall be added to you.
Nowhere is there a translation that I can find that includes the word "within" after kingdom as Yogani suggest here http://www.aypsite.org/16.html in this lesson. Perhaps someone can shed some light on where this version exists if it does,
This is much harder than you might think... and it goes WAY deep.
You see the Greek word that is being translated here as "The kingdom of God and his righteousness" is Basileia. And that in turn is a translation of the Hebrew "Malkut shamayim" which is a translation of the Aramaic "Malkut hach".
Now Malkut is a really difficult word to translate into any language. It means the kingdom, and also the activity, or sovereignty of a King (in this case God). For most of us humans, the only place that the kingdom of God can be known, is deep within our own hearts. So the translation "kingdom of heaven within" for Malkut shamayim is as good as any.
Here comes the deep part...
Malkut is also said to be this world (the material dimension). But it is only this world to the extent that this world is a reflection of the light of the world of heaven (sekinath in malkut). And the degree to which this world is a reflection of the light of the world of heaven depends on the level of the purity of our hearts.
In other words, as we purify ourselves through spiritual practices, first of all we come to know the kingdom of heaven within (malkut), and then, the light of heaven shines through our hearts and transforms the light of this world into the kingdom of heaven on earth. That is what Jesus was talking about with all that Kingdom of heaven on earth stuff, and is the true meaning of his teachings and mission on earth.
Through purifying our hearts, through spiritual practice, we set aside our own will, and become pure channels for the will of God, which is His reign and sovereignty (Malkut) in the new kingdom of divine glory. When that happens, we will see our true selves shining as ecstatic consciousness in all of divine creation, so the Kingdom of God will still be within us, shining through our hearts.
If you read the main lessons on this website carefully, this is in fact, all there.
I don't think you should argue with your family about these matters. It isn't going to get you very far, or them. Just tell them that you don't want to talk about Christianity, and I'm sure they will respect that.
Christi
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 12:53:12 PM
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Hi Carson:
Your main risk in all of this is bending back to the will of others, which is how you got spun off in the first place. Ironically, it is the rigidity of your family on spiritual matters that led you to the path you are on now, traveling by a difficult route to be sure. But here you are. If you put their will over your path, you could land back in the soup. I don't think that will happen at this late stage, but thought to mention it anyway.
Your youth as described reminds me of a troubling documentary called "Jesus Camp," which is about extremist fundamentalist Christians deliberately brainwashing their children. Most rational people see it as child abuse, but the perpetrators see it as God's will.
I agree with Christi that discussing religion with your family probably has more downside in it than upside. Just live!
Wow Christi. What a beautiful post on Christian roots. Thanks! 
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 1:16:33 PM
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Hi Christi,
I learned yesterday all about Basiliea and the Malkut Shamayim and know now from personal experience how hard it is to translate Latin to English or Hebrew to English and the difficulties there within as I did the translations myself yesterday. And I understand where the interpretation could lead towards thinking that the kingdom of heaven is within and I know that many people, some Christians included have no issues with this. But my family and their sect of Christianity see duality as the ultimate reality. Not only are we NOT capable of union with God, but the only way to even experience a "piece" of God is to surrender to the fact that we aren't capable of said union and one must take Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior in order to find the kingdom of God "without". If that makes any sense. They believe that my "spiritual practices" are demon worship and that I must be saved at all costs. To them I am worse off now then when I was on drugs. And I am NOT trying to argue with them in any way, I am just trying at this point to stave off the attacks and stand up for myself. It's actually a bit of a pickle.
Yogani,
There is no chance of me bending to their will and landing back in the "soup". I am happy to be on this journey and would give it up for no one including my family. I just thought that maybe there could be some compromise between my reality and their's but it seems there is not. I have seen the documentary "Jesus Camp" and even tried to make my family watch it with me last year. No chance. They would have nothing past 5minutes into the film. They considered it hate propoganda. I will try to just live, but I fear them pounding down my door if I choose to ignore this issue.
Love,
Carson |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 1:29:07 PM
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Hi Carson
Why are you trying to convince them of anything?
They have their language for what they do and so do you. You are in a good position now to cross-reference the two sides of the debate.
There is just as much Truth in Christainity as in any other path, the fact that you have found a different interpretation of the journey to truth does not mean that your father's experience is any less valid than yours. It is arrogance to think otherwise.
So if you what to communicate then learn to fit the language of yoga into their language, it's no big deal, but you are making it a big deal because you want him to see things your way - this is a mistake, in my view.
Why not learn to "wonder" at your father's experiences, with him, and marvel at his revelations. If he finds so much joy and meaning from his religion, this is cause to celebrate, not to try and change him.
He is surrendering to the Kingdom of God and so are you, just by a different name - surrender is surrender.
So talk their language and agree with them and laugh with them. After all you are not doing it on your own, when we surrender we surrender our control and this is what your father is saying, only in his language.
that's my take on it anyway, maybe it's not that simple
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 1:36:19 PM
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Hi Louis,
Not sure if you read much of what is posted by me in this thread. Nowhere have I indicated that I am trying to convice my family of anything. In fact I JUST stated above that the only thing I am trying to do is stave off their attacks and stand up for myself and what I believe. I know that there is plenty of value to Christianity and in fact my ishta has morphed into Jesus from simply being "god" before. I think you misunderstand the fact that I am not instigating these conversations, and am only participating in them because I am getting 3-6 emails a day, not to mention several phone calls and more per day, on this topic matter. And as I have said above, the only reason I am not completely ignoring all contact from them now is because I feel that is running away, and because I fear that refusing to communicate with them will cause them to get even more aggressive and have them be pounding down my door so that I can't avoid them any longer.
Love,
Carson |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 2:49:52 PM
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quote:
I can stop replying to emails and stop answering their phone calls, but isn't that petty and immature? It won't stop the emails or phone calls from coming I assure you. It may in fact intensify it some I don't know. They may start coming to my HOUSE to bother me and that is the LAST thing I want
Carson,
They (the entire extended family?) are crowding you inappropriately. How can you tolerate this situation and still develop a viable marriage?
Their control issues, including anger which is characteristic of socially programmed deeply religious idealogues, are nothing you can do anything about.
There are only three options available to you in any relationship, yes? Live with things as they are for a bit longer, or attempt to modify the situation to suit your needs and desires, or head for an exit and otherwise cut your losses.
You must insist on space and reject their crowding, and do whatever it takes to make your position stick. Otherwise they will start managing your marriage too, for all we know.
It is time to set boundaries. It is also time to revise their long held conception of you as The Sick One. You require neither their supervision nor their salvation. It is a still voice within that you would honor.
Why not write a letter to everyone in the family, laying out your needs and desires? Set limits as to the kinds of behaviors and communications that you will tolerate, accept and receive, from this time forward.
If you wish, email me privately on this mess, perhaps I can assist in working up a draft.
newpov |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 3:10:41 PM
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Hi Brian.
Yeah I know what they are doing is wrong or inappropriate at least. And yes it is my entire extended family, other then my 1 Grandfather who had a stint with TM in the 70's and has an extensive spiritual background but still considers himself a Christian. He is the only one I can relate or talk to openly now. Actually the first time I read Siddhartha was because my Grandpa gave me his copy of the book. This was when I was about 13 or so. I understand what my options are here, and I was truly hoping that the modification of the situation would be the viable option, but it seems full out cutting my losses may be the only refuge. I doubt they will start trying to infringe on my marriage at least until I convert (which will never happen) but you never know. I understand that I need to set boundaries, and I have tried, but they refuse to respect these boundaries because they see the importance of "saving my soul" as far outwieghing any objections I may have. I have sent them messages saying that all I desire here is some personal space to live how I see fit, and for there to be some peace amongst us when we are together. This has been blatantly ignored up to this point. I fear I may have to give them an ultimatum, but I am also afraid that that may push them over the edge to the point of literally pounding down my door and dragging me kicking and screaming to a church or minister they deem appropriate. They pretty much see me as demon possessed and won't leave it alone. They consider me of "Eastern religous" persuation and believe that meditation left my mind open to demonic attacks and even have gone so far as to suggest that I am demon possessed. Outright lunacy in my opinion.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 29 2008 3:32:58 PM |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 4:40:15 PM
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Carson,
No longer the victim, you would be perceived as admiringly proactive if you were to write one general letter which you xerox and mail to the entire family.
It would force them to confer with one another about accommodating to an agenda that you are setting. By making the same presentation to everyone, you will be better able to sort out, quite fairly and quite soon, who is with you from those who will never be with you, no matter what you do or say.
Perhaps you might suggest to one and all that Grandpa has always been great in how he relates to you as you have found your own way and have arrived at your present position in life, and that you hope others might take his approach in the future. Then you can hope they will turn to Grandpa and he can run some interference for you.
You lose nothing by going on record with a thoughtfully considered Adult Male statement of your own position, needs, and mature desires. Then if they still don't shape up after a time of implied probation, you get to walk away with a clear conscience and no loss of dignity.
Maybe standing up to your own family will also be doing a service to your wife as she struggles to relate to her Mormon family in possibly a new way. Deprogramming yourselves emotionally can't be easy!
If this family of origin is determined to treat you poisonously, it is nurturing for you and your wife to seek another "family" to adopt or build up and relate to. They are not the only game in town.
You have already started outreach and building a larger family, to your credit. Service to others troubled by drugs. Service to spiritual strays like me. Service to children, whether yours or those who will benefit from your adoption.
As you get older, outreach for new and more healthy connections becomes increasingly important. You're never home-free with existing relationships. They require continual maintenance, and even then, relatives start dying off on you...
newpov |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 5:59:28 PM
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Hi CarsonZi,
I really like what Sparkle said.
When I'm with my sister I'm Zen Buddhist.
When I'm with my brother in-law I'm catholic.
When I'm with my wife's family I'm methodist.
When were all together ... I tell them I'm into Scientology ... working on THETAN LEVEL 108 and everyone leaves me alone. |
Edited by - machart on Oct 29 2008 6:18:42 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 7:03:40 PM
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Carson!
Sorry to hear you have to put up with all this.
On the question of arguing with them, their world-view contains a lot of delusion, and delusion can't always be argued against. I'm familiar with that problem. Even if you do even succeed in showing them gaping holes in their logic, they'll probably see your logic as a sort of tool of satan.
Cause it seems the exact opposite in my situation. The more silence I find I have, the more my family see's this as their opportunity to convert me. Not the more silence I have the more they leave me alone.
I believe you. And there is a very good reason why this is so.
If you were treated by Dr. Fundie for twenty years for a sickness that kept getting worse, then you went to Dr. Yoga and you started to get healthy straight away, what does that say about Dr. Fundie? Your recovery under Dr. Yoga, from an addiction that Dr. Fundie couldn't cure is a deep threat to their world-view. The healthier, and more balanced you become, the more disturbing they may find the situation. Things just won't be adding up the way they want them to add up.
Idealogues clutch their idols. They don't have the confidence to let them go. They are low in faith, in the valuable sense of the term. They are hanging on for dear life, and your very health is shaking the foundation and challenging their grip. And they will do what people do when their idols are threatened. They try to eliminate the threat.
This threat to their grip on their idol is not your problem. Your only problem is getting on with your family. And I understand and believe you that this is now difficult. I have no 'magic bullet' for an answer.
But I can suggest an approach that comes to mind. If someone in my family thought I was going to hell, having failed to reason with them, I might say something like, 'OK, I don't believe you that I'm going to hell, but I believe that you believe it. But I'm not going to stop doing what you think will get me to hell. So, let's assume I'm going to hell. Well, that isn't your problem is it? Just get used to it.'
Be calm and happy and joyful in the face of their belief that you're going to hell.  It isn't easy, but it can be done.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 7:22:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
But I can suggest an approach that comes to mind. If someone in my family thought I was going to hell, having failed to reason with them, I might say something like, 'OK, I don't believe you that I'm going to hell, but I believe that you believe it. But I'm not going to stop doing what you think will get me to hell. So, let's assume I'm going to hell. Well, that isn't your problem is it? Just get used to it.'
Be calm and happy and joyful in the face of their belief that you're going to hell. It isn't easy, but it can be done.
David's post reminded me of NVC.
Have you read up/tried out Non Violent communication?
You can read up on it here in emc's wonderful topic on Power of Words - On communication
A lot will change as you continue on your path.. actually nothing changes.. and yet everything changes. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 7:49:09 PM
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Hi Brian,
Thank you again for your support and suggestions.
Writing a single note and letting the whole family know what I am willing to accept in the way of communications is a definite potential and I will likely try it out. My worry with this is...I already know that the whole family has gotten together at least once to determine how best to approach me about this, so this is already an organized effort on their part. That may be good, as it will be easy to circulate the letter, but it may be bad as it just may cause them to change their approach/strategy for the more aggressive as they may see this as the "devil" taking stronger hold and their opportunity to save me slipping away. The only way to know is to try and I will. About my Grandpa, unfortunately everyone already dismisses him as a senile old drunk and his treatment of me and my beliefs won't sway anyones opinions I'm afraid. And my Grandpa and I have a shaky history as well, it turning for the better only semi recently. My wife is well deprogrammed from the Mormon religion, as is a few of her siblings, so the pressure there isn't too bad yet. The pressure will increase when we have children but I have already devised a plan for when that occurs. hehe Yes you are right that I need a more supportive "family" but I am still struggling to find it here in my city. My weekly meditation group is still at three people, despite the fact that at least 7 tell me every week they will be there, but I hope to find a more supportive family atmosphere at my new job. Thanks again for your input and advice.
Hi Machart,
Thanks for the advice and I see what you and Louis are saying, but the Chameleon act isn't me. And my family is adept enough at picking every action apart that if I did that they would rip me apart for being "wishy washy". i couldn't handle pretending to be an Evangelical Christian either...just the thought of faking that makes me feel ill in the stomach. Gotta be a better way.
Hi David,
Thank you for your input as well. I agree totally with what you have said, and you seem to have a keen eye for my situation. You describe my predicament with scalpel like precision. Along with Brian's letter writing suggestion I believe I will try yours as well. But again I don't know how far it will get me. This may appease them or it may infuriate them and make this worse. The only way to know is to try, and I will. Thank you.
Hi Shanti,
Thank you for the links, and yes I am well familiar with Non-Violent-Communication. In fact I believe we had this conversation on a different thread already. But regardless, if my family breaks down my door and physically drags me to an exorcist, no NVC is gonna help me. I NEED to set boundaries somehow that they will respect. But I just dont see that happening as every boundary I set, they see as Satan's attempt to keep my soul from Jesus and push that much harder. We'll see. Only time will tell how far this will escalate.
Thank you everyone for your continued support and advice...I am truly thankful.
Love,
Carson |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 7:53:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I fear I may have to give them an ultimatum, but I am also afraid that that may push them over the edge to the point of literally pounding down my door and dragging me kicking and screaming to a church or minister they deem appropriate.
Hi Carson,
Years ago, some of my in-laws who happen to be of the biblical literalist persuasion were doing similar things to their non-converted family members, and I caught some of the side-stream of that. As time went on, they mellowed out, and eventually gave up trying to convert their relatives. Things are much more pleasant now. They're really sweet people, and I'm glad we can all be together and just relax and laugh and genuinely enjoy each other's company.
But if that doesn't happen in your case ... well ... I say give them the ultimatum. If they trespass on your private property and try to break into your home, call the police - I'm totally serious about that - let them experience being arrested, handcuffed, fingerprinted, and released on their own recognizance. Seriously, Carson, I'm not joking about that. Give 'em tough love. And if they decide they enjoy being repeatedly arrested for trespassing and disturbing the peace, get thee to a judge and take out restraining orders against them, which will put them in prison if they do not leave you alone. Tough love. Give 'em tough love. And if they get themselves imprisoned, let them serve their time. Tough love. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 9:09:50 PM
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Hi Suryakant,
Thank you for your words of wisdom. My family is filled with wonderful, kindhearted individuals, we just don't see eye to eye on spiritual matters. I hope my situation turns out like yours did, as I have experienced that peace in that past and want more than anything for this to turn into that again. Only time will tell what will transpire. I really hope I don't have to go so far as to have them arrested, and I hope they don't go so far as to come pounding down my door. I doubt I would have them arrested unless they were literally trying to drag me to an exorcist or something. My immediate family lives in another city so I hope they stay there and can let this be. At this point they are only harrassing me with emails and phone calls and I'm staying away from all but the biggest of family gatherings for now. I think my biggest problem is that I have 2 young nephews that I adore, and who adore me, and it is hard to stay away from them for long as they grow up so fast. Oh well, life is never perfect. Thanks again for the advice.
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 08:13:37 AM
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Hi Carson,
Don't dismiss NVC completely.
It is a very powerful tool. Even if it seems impossible to apply it now.. just keep it in mind.
In this post Kirtanman posted a paragraph from the book. You can read the entire post, its long but well written. I will however just post the part that he quotes from the book.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
To hopefully help a little, here's an "NVC in Action" excerpt from the book, as well as the main NVC website, at www.cnvc.org
The author of the following excerpt is Marshall Rosenberg, PhD (founder of NVC).
Enjoy!
Kirtanman
**
I was presenting Nonviolent Communication in a mosque at Deheisha Refugee Camp in Bethlehem to about 170 Palestinian Moslem men. Attitudes toward Americans at that time were not favorable. As I was speaking, I suddenly noticed a wave of muffled commotion fluttering through the audience. “They’re whispering that you are American!” my translator alerted me, just as a gentleman in the audience leapt to his feet. Facing me squarely, he hollered at the top of his lungs, “Murderer!” Immediately a dozen other voices joined him in chorus:“Assassin!” “Child-killer!” “Murderer!”
Fortunately, I was able to focus my attention on what the man was feeling and needing. In this case, I had some cues. On the way into the refugee camp, I had seen several empty tear gas canisters that had been shot into the camp the night before. Clearly marked on each canister were the words “Made in U.S.A.” I knew that the refugees harbored a lot of anger toward the U.S. for supplying tear gas and other weapons to Israel.
I addressed the man who had called me a murderer:
I: Are you angry because you would like my government to use its resources differently? (I didn’t know whether my guess was correct, but what is critical is my sincere effort to connect with his feeling and need.)
He: Damn right I’m angry! You think we need tear gas? We need sewers, not your tear gas! We need housing! We need to have our own country!
I: So you’re furious and would appreciate some support in improving your living conditions and gaining political independence?
He: Do you know what it’s like to live here for twenty-seven years the way I have with my family—children and all? Have you got the faintest idea what that’s been like for us?
I: Sounds like you’re feeling very desperate and you’re wondering whether I or anybody else can really understand what it’s like to be living under these conditions.
He: You want to understand? Tell me, do you have children? Do they go to school? Do they have playgrounds? My son is sick! He plays in open sewage! His classroom has no books! Have you seen a school that has no books?
I: I hear how painful it is for you to raise your children here; you’d like me to know that what you want is what all parents want for their children—a good education, opportunity to play and grow in a healthy environment . . .
He: That’s right, the basics! Human rights—isn’t that what you Americans call it? Why don’t more of you come here and see what kind of human rights you’re bringing here!
I: You’d like more Americans to be aware of the enormity of the suffering here and to look more deeply at the consequences of our political actions?
Our dialogue continued, with him expressing his pain for nearly twenty more minutes, and I listening for the feeling and need behind each statement.
I didn’t agree or disagree. I received his words, not as attacks, but as gifts from a fellow human willing to share his soul and deep vulnerabilities with me.
NOTE: Italics above mine. - Kirtanman
Once the gentleman felt understood, he was able to hear me as I explained my purpose for being at the camp. An hour later, the same man who had called me a murderer was inviting me to his home for a Ramadan dinner.
Here is the rest of the post.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Hi EMC & All,
I am currently re-reading Non-Violent Communication: A Language of Life, by Marhsall Rosenberg, PhD.
It is one of the most powerful sets of teachings, as relates to consciousness, that I have ever had the pleasure of being exposed to, and that I am humbly doing my best to adopt.
One of the main reasons I experience NVC as SO powerful, is that our verbal communication tends to be such a blind spot for most of us, based on our cultural and social conditioning.
Even very "spiritual" or "yogic" people can be far more violent in their verbal communication than they realize.
And, candidly, when I was first exposed to NVC, I let my ego get in the way -- and I didn't think all that much of it (NVC, that is - apparently I thought a lot of my ego, at the time ... )
However, a couple of years back, when I was facing a tough communication situation within my family, I got some NVC "counseling" from a good friend of mine, who is an NVC facilitator, and the results were amazing.
In a nutshell: if you truly desire to connect with others in true communication, NVC provides a framework which helps this to be possible.
Often, for most of us, even that sincere desire to communicate can be clouded over by egoic agenda, semi-conscious attempts to control, blame, manipulate - or to defend, react, feel guilty, etc. as a reaction to the communication of others.
As A Course in Miracles so succinctly and eloquently states: there are only two ways of being in the world: Love, and Calling Out for Love (violence, anger, aggression, blame, defensiveness, guilt, etc. are all near-unconscious ways of calling out for love).
When we understand this, Love becomes our natural, authentic and ultimately empowered response to all situations.
And I'm not talking "hearts and flowers", second-chakra, emotion-based pseudo-love ... I'm talking LOVE ... the essential power of reality ... Satyagraha.
(If that term sounds familiar to anyone, it attained a certain degree of Sanskritical acclaim in the middle of the last century, as the name of Mahatma Gandhi's spiritual-political movement.
Gandhi described Satyagraha - "The Power of Reality", as one side of the coin.
The other side of the coin?
Ahimsa ... Non-Violence.
Incidentally, the Foreward to Non-Violent Communication: A Language of Life, was written by Arun Gandhi ... Mahatma Gandhi's grandson.
NVC is more than a helpful set of communication techniques ... it is essentially a yoga unto itself - "verbal yoga".
(I define a Yoga as any path or discipline which can take a person or group into direct realization / experience of the essential Oneness of reality.)
Can NVC really be that powerful?
I would say "yes" - but as with all things yoga - it is up to each of us to make this determination for ourselves.
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 09:18:52 AM
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Carson,
As pressures build up over the years, things often detonate at big family gatherings, especially on religious holidays like Thanksgiving.
Thanksgiving is right around the corner. Enforced herd solidarity will be the rule of the day. There will be pious prayers, and all disagreements will be suppresed, though they simmer beneath the surface of conversation. You know what I am saying and what happens. Feeling as you do, do you want to be complicit to another repeat of past Thanksgivings?
What do you want to be thankful for THIS year?
You can try verbal ju-jitsu, including non-violent "echoing" techniques, but I don't believe cleverness of this sort will defuse a concerted mob of smugly fundamentalist idealogues.
Given all this, what is your plan?
You need to line one up now, in my opinion. What is it? If you have no plan of approach to this holiday gathering, you are drifting and gambling. Is this failure to take responsibility for improving your welfare?
Please consider taking a stand before Thanksgiving, and communicating it at your initiative, not in reaction to their ongoing or entirely predictable future emotional assaults. Be proactive.
Lay out an agenda, advance your agenda. Express your needs and desires, and convey what you expect of them.
"The hand that writes the memo rules the committee." If they have no plan, certainly not in time for Thanksgiving, then I believe you will prevail with yours.
Let this holiday, which would otherwise be yet another day of denial and another year lost, have possibility of turning into a meeting which accomplishes some useful family business -- for a change.
An Adult Male would take this approach. Take charge and shape events this year. Don't act as someone junior to any others in the family. They are no longer your betters. Why, then, take a timid approach?
Your wife will be there to back you up, but she can't do this if the two of you haven't decided upon a plan of action culminating in that day.
Getting that letter out now, allowing them plenty of time to consider it before that day, increases odds for an outcome favorable to you.
Timing is everything.
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Oct 30 2008 12:51:22 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 5:46:37 PM
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Hi Shanti,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss NVC...That wasn't my intention. I totally understand how valuable it can be. Please forgive my improper expression. And sorry this is so short, I've had an incredibly busy day and time is very minimal. Will hopefully get time to respond in depth later.
Hi Brian,
Lucky for me I live in Canada and Thanksgiving has already happened. Next big gathering is Christmas so I have 2 months to prepare. I am working on my plan of action but have been very busy today (got a new job while working the old one) and I will try to respond soon as to what my exact approach will be. UNtil then...
Thank you all for your helpful advice. Namaste.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 11:56:43 AM
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Shanti,
Sorry my above post was so short. Like I said, I am fairly aware of the power of NVC although I have never read a book on the subject. Having dialectic conversation as a bit of a forte of mine, I find I am easily able to discern the underlying message in most people's statements. What I am not great at yet, is not ever getting defensive or aggressive. I'm getting much better but sometimes if the topic is something I am still deeply passionate about, the conversation may end up getting emotional. What is the title of the NVC book you were referencing and who is the author. I should pick it up for sure. I gather the title is A Course in Miracles? Would appreciate any info you can provide.
Love,
Carson
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 1:22:48 PM
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The NVC book is called
“Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Compassion” by Marshall B. Rosenberg, Ph.D.
This is their website: http://www.cnvc.org/ (you can read the first chapter in that link above).
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonvio...ommunication
Nonviolent Communication (NVC) is a process developed by Marshall Rosenberg and others which people use to communicate with greater compassion and clarity. It focuses on two things: honest self-expression — exposing what matters to oneself in a way that's likely to inspire compassion in others, and empathy — listening with deep compassion. Formal NVC self-expression includes four elements: observations (distinguished from interpretations/evaluations), feelings (emotions separate from thoughts), needs (deep motives) and requests (clear, present, doable and without demand).
Those who use nonviolent communication (also called "compassionate communication") describe all actions as motivated by an attempt to meet human needs. However, in meeting those needs, they seek to avoid the use of coercion (e.g., inducing fear, guilt, shame, praise, blame, duty, obligation, punishment, or reward). The goal of NVC is to get one's own needs met while also meeting others' needs. A key principle of nonviolent communication that supports this is the capacity to express oneself without use of good/bad, right/wrong judgment, hence the emphasis on expressing feelings and needs, instead of criticisms or judgments.
A COURSE IN MIRACLES is a very powerful spiritual tool..
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_In_Miracles
A Course in Miracles (also referred to as ACIM or the Course) written by Dr. Helen Schucman and Dr. William Thetford that describes a new approach to spirituality based on Christian teachings.
ACIM integrates ideas from Christianity, Eastern religions, mysticism, psychology, and Platonism, viewing reality as monistically consisting of a single thing, the love of God and the physical world as a projection in the mind. ACIM focuses on cultivating awareness of love in the self and in others. Believers in ACIM consider it an inspired scripture using Biblical terminology, but possessing a greater coherence by dint of its consistent source.
I find this statement very powerful:
The opening statement of the Course, "Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God." |
Edited by - Shanti on Oct 31 2008 1:32:18 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 2:02:02 PM
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Thanks Shanti.
I will be picking up both books in the near future as it seems as if my current situation could really benefit from this knowledge. I think I could benefit from NVC at my new job as well as the homeless and working poor can tend to get a little overzealous with their communication and NVC seems as if it would be a perfect fit for that situation as well. Thanks again.
Love,
Carson |
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Biblical Translations.
