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solo
USA
167 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 27 2008 : 11:14:45 AM
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My kundalini awakened this year. Been Christian for 39 years but looking into other practices now.
I started practicing with a Bon Buddhist group (Tibetan Buddhism, Dzogchen) once a week as well as a daily practice.
Question: Up until now, I have merely meditated on my breath. I would like to try the AYP "I am" meditation. But mixing practicies is genrally not advised.
Have any buddhists in this forum practiced the "I am" meditation? |
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solo
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 09:14:49 AM
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I see that many people have read the initial post but nobody has chosen to reply. Still hoping to get some input. So feel free to speak up! This newbie welcomes advice from all  |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 09:55:47 AM
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solo,
I'll write you privately. But if you don't hear from me in 2-3 days, nudge me. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate some information to you.
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Oct 30 2008 10:10:49 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 10:24:29 AM
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Hi Solo, and welcome!
Sorry for the delayed response. Since my background is not in Buddhist practices, I can only offer a limited perspective. Hopefully others with the background will chime in.
It is generally not a good idea to mix practices from several traditions, particularly for beginners. On the other hand, there is the possibility to fill in missing elements of practice by reaching across traditional lines if we are clear about what we are doing.
A good example of this is considering adding mantra-based deep meditation to paths that are limited to pranayama or breath-based meditation methods. The reason for considering this is because effective meditation with mantra (I AM) will go much deeper than meditation with breath, resulting in more effective cultivation of abiding inner silence, which is the cornerstone of all spiritual progress. This is discussed over here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3454#30072
(Also see the rest of the posts in this linked topic)
While advanced methods of Buddhist meditation do cover meditation "beyond the breath," these methods are more complex and not well known. The method of deep meditation we use in AYP is simple and does not require alterations along the way, though optional mantra enhancements are available for those who are stable in practice and inclined to speed up their progress later on.
You might ask: If I take up AYP deep meditation, what happens to my breath-based meditation? Good question, and maybe some who have come from a Buddhist background and are using AYP deep meditation can comment.
The only advice I will give on that is not to try and do both practices at the same time, as this will water down the effects of both. It will take some time to train the attention to easily favor the mantra rather than observing the breath, but it will happen. It is a normal transition of habit in technique, which we deal with often in the AYP system. I believe some here use AYP deep meditation, and then observe the breath at other times during the day, during activity. This is not an AYP instruction, but something that has been mentioned.
The way breath is used in AYP is in pranayama practice, which is not regarded to be meditation, even though the attention is used in particular ways in relation to the breath. Spinal breathing pranayama is the flagship form of pranayama in AYP. All of these methods are covered in the main lessons, linked at the top of this page -- it is suggested to review the lessons in order.
The caution that is always given with regard to combining different systems of practice, is to be careful not to "double up" on similar forms of practice in the same session or day. This is especially true for pranayama, where the effects of different styles will be cumulative and can lead to an energy overload. Sometimes this will come as a delayed effect, days or weeks after practices have been undertaken, so prudent "self-pacing" of practice durations is recommended, even when using AYP practices only.
Whatever you decide to do in practices will be your choice. AYP is an open resource that can be used as much or as little as desired.
Regarding kundalini, that is also covered in the AYP lessons, and extensively in these forums as well, with many individual histories available for review. Feel free to share more about your experiences and ask questions. There are many here who can help, and everyone benefits from the open discussions.
Wishing you all the best on your chosen path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
PS: Newpov, you replied here first. Thanks!
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 3:06:28 PM
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In budhist monastaries all over Asia they use mantra meditation in paralell with breath based meditation. Not everywhere but I think most places. Some use mantra purely to gain concentration and then switch to Vipassana to gain insight, observing the mind and the sensations of the body. There can either be a long phases were only mantra is used and then a switch to Vipassana or they can both be used daily for a long time. Buddho and sangha are poppular mantras. Some also use mantra to reach particular energetic goals, for example opening a certain chakra. Various yogic traditions also use both breath based meditations and mantra based meditations. So in generall I can see no problem combining a mantra practice with a breath based practice. It is not correct either to say that the yogic tradition is a mantra based tradition as opposed to a breath based one. It is true that some yogic traditions use only mantra but many use both. The Bihar tradition for exxample uses breath, mantra, chakra meditation and concious movement of prana in the body in paralell.
That being said, a particular mantra might not work to well with breath based meditation altough I don`t know if that is the case. Learning both methods in paralell might not be a wise aproach as the differing focus might water down the efect of both. However, once one has gained a certain level of one method, learning to switch back and forth shouldn`t be. In vipassana one abondons the breath after a while and start focusing on the mind or particular sensations in the body. There is actualy a lot of swithching between objects. Focusing on a mantra shouldn`t be a problem.
There are a few people here that combine Vipassana with AYP. Personaly I think that is a good idea because AYP can get you deeper a lot quicker than the breath.
Mixing one style of pranyama with another or mixing one type of energetic meditation with another is often a bad idea. These practices often conflict or do the same work twice.
In AYP the focus is not on very specific manipulation of energy centers but on broad purification. The mantra activates the root and the third eye and this again pulls the other chakras and the rest of the nervous system along. This is in contrast to working systematicly on all the chakras and trying to measure if they are in balance or opening on after another from the root up etc. Because of the broad purification effect of this mantra it is not given where in the body stuff will happen first. It depends on the individual. For some the heart chakra might open quickly. For some it might be the solar plexus chakra or a broad and even opening. That is left to the bodies own wisdom and not micromanaged in AYP.
In breath based meditation the process is very similar. To some extent were you focus on the breath influences were you get openings first. Focusing on the entrance to the nostrils tends to activate the rott chakra. If you focus more on the lower abdomen or more on the whole movement of the breath will give slightly different results. However, for the most part breath based meditations leaves what heppens when to the wisdom of the body and the particualar nervous system of the individual. It depends a lot on what parts of the indivdual is most ripe for opening and it might be more psychologicly determined. Because in Vipassana one focuses more on the process of the mind and the sensations of the body. Following a spontanious trail of thoughts and emotions might lead to unraveling a psychological knot that has huge impact on your energetic body. Because of this what opens when is almost impossible to predict.
I do a lot of breath based meditation. I only observe the breath and control nothing. But spontainiously my eyes might start looking into the third eye, down to the root or roll back, Sometimes the macrocosmic orbit starts running although I have never conciously opened it. Lots of stuff that I recognise from systems based on energy manipulation happen but it happens sponationiously, and often only for some time before something else starts happening. I think this is because the body is step by step doing what is needed in a way that is better than if I had planned it. I think that if one does some other energetic work like using a mantra that activates certain chakras the rbeath based meditation will ensure that there will be a harmonious further building on the foundation that has been made. For example by starting to activate the other chakras more. That at least is my experience.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 5:45:38 PM
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Hi Markern,
quote:
I do a lot of breath based meditation. I only observe the breath and control nothing. But spontainiously my eyes might start looking into the third eye, down to the root or roll back, Sometimes the macrocosmic orbit starts running although I have never conciously opened it. Lots of stuff that I recognise from systems based on energy manipulation happen but it happens sponationiously, and often only for some time before something else starts happening. I think this is because the body is step by step doing what is needed in a way that is better than if I had planned it. I think that if one does some other energetic work like using a mantra that activates certain chakras the rbeath based meditation will ensure that there will be a harmonious further building on the foundation that has been made. For example by starting to activate the other chakras more. That at least is my experience.
This made sense to me and sounds good, the idea of letting the body do what is needed. Can you tell me please how long you have been using breath meditation? Have you tried the I AM mantra? And if so how do you see its effects in relation to just breath meditation? And a final question, for how long and how frequentely do you do breath meditation?
Thank you! |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 01:30:01 AM
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Hello and welcome, solo 
I don't claim to be a buddhist, but I feel a deep connection to the Buddha and his teachings. I try to understand and live his teachings in my daily life, and the AYP practices support this endeavor tremendously.
While I wouldn't recommend mixing the "I Am" meditation with other styles of sitting meditation, it is a wonderful compliment to mindfulness practice. In my experience, they support each other. The inner silence cultivated in AYP Deep Meditation (DM) actually makes mindfulness much easier and more natural. You may even find that practicing DM over time leads to mindfulness occurring naturally and effortlessly, as a result.
I highly recommend using the AYP meditation, then practicing mindfulness and studying the Dharma in daily life. You may find that your understanding and experience of Buddha's teachings deepen as a result, as I have.
Whatever you choose, I wish you great success!
PEACE
cosmic |
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solo
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 1:13:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by newpov
solo,
I'll write you privately. But if you don't hear from me in 2-3 days, nudge me. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate some information to you.
newpov
I don't check the forum every day. However, if you clink on my profile, you (or anyone here) are able to email me through my profile. Thank you for reaching out to me! |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 2:26:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by solo
My kundalini awakened this year. Been Christian for 39 years but looking into other practices now.
I started practicing with a Bon Buddhist group (Tibetan Buddhism, Dzogchen) once a week as well as a daily practice.
Question: Up until now, I have merely meditated on my breath. I would like to try the AYP "I am" meditation. But mixing practicies is genrally not advised.
Have any buddhists in this forum practiced the "I am" meditation?
Hi Solo, welcome to the forum
As Cosmic Troll says, the combination of AYP Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing Pranayama and Mindfulness throughout the day is a powerful practice.
The mindfulness will deepen more quickly, in my experience, by using the AYP practices instead of mindfulness meditation.
The other point to consider is the fact that your Kundalini has awakened. This in itself makes a good case for practicing AYP because it is very good at nurturing, developing and self-pacing kundalini. You will also find a lot of support and information about the kundalini process here, it is not really discussed or encouraged in Buddhist practices, as far as I am aware.
Kundalini is a very powerful purifying agent, so if you have it going then I would encourage you to utalise it and manage it properly. As I said the Buddhist traditions seem to steer away from this.
My own practice has been zen type meditation for a long time and when I discovered AYP my practice took on a new dept. I am still very much involved with mindfulness and attend mindfulness retreats on a regular basis. When on these retreats I honour the practice of the retreat.
Another important factor for me is the fact that the AYP practices are much more enjoyable and particularly after the dust settles and some dept is there, the discipline required to do a twice daily practice is nowhere near as great with AYP. In fact it becomes so nice one does'nt want to miss it.
Mindfulness meditation, on the other hand, was harder work for me, and it is the feedback I get from others who practice mindfulness meditation - very few have a consistant twice daily practice - this speaks volumes in itslef.
With regard to mixing the meditations, I would be cautious if I were you. AYP is a very powerful system and takes a while to get used to and become aware of the self-pacing aspects of our own system, we are all a bit different.
My recomendation would be to establish yourself in AYP, practice mindfulness throughout the day - walking meditation is brilliant.
Then, if at a later stage you want to try and incorporate the Buddhist type mindfulness meditation you will have a solid base from which to work and you will be more aware of your own self-pacing issues.
Hope this helps
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Edited by - Sparkle on Oct 31 2008 2:32:39 PM |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 3:59:26 PM
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Hi solo,
Before coming to AYP about a year and a half ago I was following a Buddhist path. I however never felt good using the breath as object, from very early on, instead I preferred using the body as object until the manifestations of the practice arose at which time I switched objects to those. Bon would not be what I would call strictly Buddhist (don't tell the Tibetans  ) because they have a lot of mysticism mixed in. I have to explain that all my experiences came without any real instructions except for the posture of sitting ZaZen from one lesson in the 70's. Everything else I discovered by accident. My becoming a Buddhist came from reading different people, Buddha, Patanjali, Lao Tzu, etc., and found the Buddha described it best with the Yoga Sutras coming a close second. I had let me practices fall away for many years and then resumed meditation about 6 or 7 years ago. When I came back I researched and found that other "Buddhists" did not know what I was talking about. So after about 3 years of frustration I moved on.
I came to AYP because my energies and attainments were not stable and intermittent. I felt like I was adrift without guidance. My previous success was not forthcoming. 
AYP, like everyone says, is powerful and I have had to do a lot of self pacing all along. I would say if you like to sit long hours, don't do AYP because you will have to "scrape yourself off the ceiling" as Yogani puts it. The ecstacies are very pleasant but then you have to live the rest of your life and I personally don't like being irritable any more. I seek tranquility and purification at this point most of all, oh and the Divine Outpouring Love ain't bad either.
Hope you find some of that yourself.
Love to all,
Jill |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 02:27:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
Bon would not be what I would call strictly Buddhist (don't tell the Tibetans ) because they have a lot of mysticism mixed in.
Well if the subject here is buddhism, then Bönpo is not part of buddhism because it's a lineage which started 18000 years ago hence prior to buddhist lineage which started 2500 years ago. To go a bit deeper, Bönpo includes very powerful shamanic practices along with tantra & dzogchen whereas buddhist lineages are against shamanism except Nyingma.
Albert |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 4:06:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
Hi Markern,
This made sense to me and sounds good, the idea of letting the body do what is needed. Can you tell me please how long you have been using breath meditation? Have you tried the I AM mantra? And if so how do you see its effects in relation to just breath meditation? And a final question, for how long and how frequentely do you do breath meditation?
Thank you!
I did breath based meditation for the first time about ten years ago. In the last couple of years I have done it on and of and for the last six months I have done it every day and recently about an hour I think in total. But I have also done a lot of yoga the last 4 years and I belive that has prepared my body a lot for meditation, at least it apears that after I got into it I am progressing quite fast.
I have used the I AM mantra a bit. I found it very powerfull and it felt like if I did more than 20 minutes my head would explode. However, I like breath based meditation better and it feels more psychologicly sound to me. A lot of psychological work happens on the way during mantra practice but in my opinion it apears that one can more easily bypass a lot of it than if one uses the breath and body. At least I personaly feel that this style of meditation right now supports my psychological development better than AYP (I have a lot of psychosomatic tensions and the breath based meditation feels so right for this). For me the third eye and the root activated quite quickly and started to exchange energy it seemed. The energy from the root felt a bit too hot and the energy from the third eye felt a bit too tight and constricted. I also felt that this chakra activations and the whole use of the mantra took me away from the pure experience of just being that I find more of just focusing on breath and body.
I suppsoe that if I kept at it with AYP these things would even out and come closer to what I prefer however, right know I fwant to focus mainly on what seems to work right now. However, once I have gained some dpeth through breath based meditation and realy gotten established in the practice I plan to start using AYP in order to get deeper more quickly. From what I read on the forum it is a realy great practice which I see huge benefit in using in my later practice.
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solo
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 4:12:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by newpov
solo,
I'll write you privately. But if you don't hear from me in 2-3 days, nudge me. I'm trying to figure out how to communicate some information to you.
newpov
You still out there? Here's your nudge. Feel free to email me. |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 5:15:40 PM
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Markern,
quote:
A lot of psychological work happens on the way during mantra practice but in my opinion it apears that one can more easily bypass a lot of it than if one uses the breath and body.
That's right. AYP's Mantra meditation allows you to go very deep and that's also what we want to do. Not necessarily confront ourselves with too much psychological stuff, but get right to the core of it - inner silence - and then work our way from that place. So in one way, a lot of it is bypassed and not confronted (on the way inside), but then the various blocks in the nervous system are dissolved from the inside. |
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