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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 11:07:11 AM
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Hi Everyone,
Just wondering how to prevent oneself from gagging while in stage 2 Kechari. Recently I have been able to make it into stage 2, (or at least get my tongue behind the uvula{I think that's what the dangly thing is called right?}) but I find that as soon as I get my tongue to the inside front of the upper throat I start instantly gagging. I have a pretty good gag reflex being an ex opiate addict, and I can usually control this, but this gagging is quite automatic and seemingly uncontrollable. Any suggestions?
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 24 2008 11:08:36 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 2:07:14 PM
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the best logical suggestion i can give is that if you are doing snipping or any other method for cutting for loosening the tongue then keep on doing some more and then try it again until you get enough freedom to act.
that way the movement will be loose and free and the gagging sensation will definitly go away.
and it's wonderful to see that you have such strong bhakti i can see it in most of your posts.
if the beginning of it is worth it then imagine going all the way , persevere and you shall succeed all the best to you on your path.
light and love,
Ananda |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 2:10:12 PM
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Hi Ananda,
I am not snipping at this point. I do have a naturally long tongue though as I can touch my tongue to my nose with no difficulty. You are suggesting that I SHOULD start snipping as this will create greater mobility correct? Thanks for your input.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 24 2008 2:36:29 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 2:47:36 PM
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i'm not advising snipping myself i did not go for it, but someone who is more knowledgable and an expert on this stuff advises so (yogani).
the thing is that you should do either one of these practices to loosen your toungue more: toungue milking, talvia kriya, pushing the toungue and the fastest way know for men snipping.
after loosening the toungue more you'll get more freedom to move and go back and up.
peace bro |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 3:11:33 PM
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Hi Carson,
If you are gagging.. chances are you are going too far back..
This post of Yogani's helped many of us enter kechari stage 2.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....hpage=4#8056
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
A hint that can be helpful: The journey from stage 1 to stage 2 kechari (going behind the soft palate) is actually a thrust forward with the tongue as soon as it clears the back edge. Not up, but forward. The easiest place to do that from (shortest distance to get behind) is on the left or right side of the edge of the soft palate. The tongue can roll right in from either side, while going up the middle takes more length.
Also, keep in mind that the soft palate is not a rigid boundary. As soon as we are behind it, it folds down and forward like a natural trap door. It returns to normal position just as naturally when the tongue is removed from the pharynx. So the idea of the entrance being an opening "way back there" is somewhat of an illusion. As soon as the pharynx is penetrated, the opening expands all the way forward to the edge of the hard palate. See cross-sectional images of kechari here: http://www.aypsite.org/kechari_image1.html
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 3:36:40 PM
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Thanks for the link Shanti, I have already read this thread and seen the images though. I understand in my head how to do Kechari mudra, but actually putting that knowledge into action can be a little difficult I think. I understand that the "straight back" approach is the longest and most unattainable, and I can feel that the left side of the uvula is more open for me and easier to slip the tongue up, but my issue is that as soon as I touch the front inside of my throat I start gagging. I don't start gagging while my tongue is IN my throat, just when it touches the throat. I also find that it almost instantly causes a yawn to form and makes me pull the tongue right out. So to recap....I let the tongue find it's own way into the throat, I touch the throat with the tongue, I gag, I yawn and it's over. Can't stay there for more than a second. I'm sure this is all practice related, and I just need to be patient, I've only JUST managed to make it into stage 2 so this is all new still I guess. I was just wondering I guess if this is normal, or if I have an abnormal gag reflex which might cause me problems in the future. Just curiousity.
Thanks,
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 4:48:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I'm sure this is all practice related, and I just need to be patient, I've only JUST managed to make it into stage 2 so this is all new still I guess. I was just wondering I guess if this is normal, or if I have an abnormal gag reflex which might cause me problems in the future. Just curiousity.
I think you are right about it being practice related.. If you have just entered stage 2.. then yes, it will take some time for your nasopharynx to be happy with a tongue in it. I had soreness for quite a while before I was comfortable in kechari.
Richard used to gag when in kechari http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....age=7#10973. Dunno if that is still true.. maybe he can help? |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 12:44:19 PM
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Hi Carson I don't think you have an abnormal gag reflex at all, well if you have so have I 
quote:
Richard used to gag when in kechari Dunno if that is still true.. maybe he can help
Yes Shanti is right at one time I couldn't put my tongue any where near the uvula without gagging the secret seems to be the more you do it the less you gag your brain seems to sort of accept it after a while. I don't gag at all now if I keep up regular practice but if I stop trying to get into stage two for any length of time then wham straight back to gagging again so that proves that at least in my case the more I practice the less I gag.
Hope this helps |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 5:19:34 PM
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Thanks for the confirmations Richard/Shanti.
The past few days I have been pretty actively trying to wrap my head (or tongue I guess) around Kechari stage 2. I have a few other questions. Maybe my mouth is different from others, but it seems now, that I don't have to actually go behind the uvula and then go up. It seems that if I push my tongue firmly into the soft palate before the uvula, that I will eventually reach the uvula as it will be pulled upwards by the pressure of the tongue pushing the soft palate up. Is this correct? Would this put stage 2 just below stage 3?(meaning the difference between 2 and 3 would be a mere cm of something?) I don't have the gag issue if I do it this way. But I have also seen a video of someone doing kechari and he definitely put his tongue behind the uvula and THEN went up the throat. So I guess my new question is...Is it necessary to put the tongue behind the uvula and then go up the throat, or is it possible to push the soft palate up with the tongue until the tongue reaches the uvula, and THEN go behind it into the septum passsage? Sorry if this is difficult to understand.
Love,
Carson |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 08:58:18 AM
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HI Carson
I understand what you are saying but this wont work. The tongue has to be behind the uvula for the soft palate to come forward and down and this just wont happen unless the tongue goes behind the uvula first. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 12:17:17 PM
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OK. Thanks for clarifying that for me Richard.
Love,
Carson |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 11:38:22 AM
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| How does one do milking of the tongue ? How long everyday should one practice. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 5:02:01 PM
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Hi Krish,
You "milk the tongue" by sticking it out of the mouth as far as possible, pointing it down towards the chin, and pull on the tongue with the fingers. I don't know for sure but I think you are supposed to "stroke" one side of the tongue with one hand and the other with the other hand one side directly after the other. I think the practices should be done for between 2 and 5 minutes and usually before pranayama practice to stretch the tongue for kechari mudra. This has been my intuition so far, so take it as such. I'm no expert. Hopefully someone more knowledgable will come along soon. Good luck.
Love,
Carson |
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Topic |
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Gagging in Kechari?
