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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 4:41:54 PM
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Thank you Christi - I strongly agree with what you state in your posts in this topic.
It is impossible to judge the effect of the I am mantra if it is mixed with other mantras and different practises. That is like playing 4 of Beethovens symphonies at the same time and expect it to still sound like Beethoven. And 4 months of using a mantra is not enough. Before AYP I did about 8 years of TM meditation and then I spent about 13 years with another mantra. I meditated twice daily. Both of the mantras did something. The Kundalini was awakened before I met AYP.
Then I found AYP. And it was reading Yoganis lessons that instilled the trust in me that this guy knew what he was doing. And since that is the case - I was more than willing to trust the bit about the I am mantra too.
Noone here says that you must use the I am mantra. Not even Yogani says that. You are offered this tool through the system of AYP. That's all. The rest is up to you.
I find AYP is for practitioners at any level; no matter which direction they come from. That is the beauty of it. The only thing AYP stresses is consistancy of practise, self-pacing, and to go out and activly live your life between practises. All of it according to where we all individually are in the process.
I was in serious energy overload when I found the AYP website. Through AYP I learned to self-pace. This has been crucial.
Although I experience ecstatic conductivity (Kundalini) always, I never enhanced the mantra. I still use just I am. It is still enough as I am sensitive. But I wasn't always sensitive to the practise. The sensitivity developped over the years. However - it took almost 2 years before I could feel the direct effect of the I am mantra on the spinal chord. And I did only Pranayama and Deep Meditation during that time.
It is what happens outside meditation time that makes me trust this practise - not what I see or hear or feel during meditation. It is about increased Joy in the life I am already living. It is about great calmness spreading throughout the day and night. It is about greater clarity, the ability to act with much less effort. I simply enjoy myself more....
But most of all,
it is about increased reverence for life itself.
Everything is holy to me now. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 02:55:55 AM
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Gumpi,
You are right, meditation quietens the mind, but I think the goal is enlightenment, that at the end is consciousness and love.
I don't understand why the I am mantra alone doesn't works with me, but it works the SHREE OM I AM, I think I have to follow my intuition, cause I don't want to have another episode of the "marvellous" pill that almost killed me, time ago.
I haven't tried what you have said, only I tried for a weak or a little more the KunLun nei Gung, and found this fascinating, but left it aside, cause I began to have nightmares at that time, maybe it was a cleanse of the energy, but I didn't wanted to mix them, as TI told me that he was told that one must not mix kundalini energy with Kunlun, so I left it time ago. Kunlun is very strong and rapid, it flows down, like a shower, but that's great, I think many of the group practice this, as it feels great. But I don't do it now, till I master the K energy.
In the Path of Truth one must evolve, and move, if one doesn't move, it is not evolution, as movement preceds evolution. I don't mix several things at the same time, but with time I evolve, I mean, first I was in Siddha Yoga, for years, liked very much, till I knew it was not for me, as they "adore" the guru, not the teachings. I can see them in the street, all of them have the pic of guru Mayi with them, and show her to all people, as if telling them that she is God, and she is only a guru, liked more Muktananda, but people want to be flocked by a guru. I have never liked to be flocked by anyone.
In Jhanas there is no guru, its only the teachings, sometimes a guru appears to enlighten people, not to be adored as gurus, but to enlighten if that others wants to be guided by a guru or teacher, or friend, whatever the name (thanks Jeff)
But you are right, one must follow the first steps, to learn to handle the energy, like learning to play the piano. You are right its about love and practice, and learning as kundalini its like a guitar.
And I want to play the guitar as best as I can.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
neli, you said that after one hour of meditation your mind quiets completely. Isn't that the goal of meditation? It must feel good! I think i know what it is like but i need to stop nodding off.
I think Neptune is right. Go with what feels right to you, use your intuition, the internal compass, to guide you. Only you can know what is best for you, especially now you have mentioned your reactions to medications. I was once on an anti-psychotic pill that really didn't bode well with me until it was changed and then the sun came out so to speak. You don't have to use I AM mantra. Besides, if you are doing the advanced version of it then that is even better. I would stick to that. Whatever brings YOU there, if you know what i mean.
Have you ever tried binaural beat or brain entrainment technology? Transparent do a free trial program called Neuroprogrammer and they have a nice forum. I found this program definitely worked for me but some people find it too powerful. I wouldn't suggest mixing too many practices at all, but i wondered about the goal of meditation being ultimately to still the mind and so whatever takes you there the best is something you have to work out.
The danger is in mixing too many practices. It is like what happens to people who lose faith in a religion or spiritual path only to go around to different churches etc ingesting everything and never sticking to one thing. Yogananda called it "spiritual indigestion". Definitely to be avoided. Think of it like learning to play the piano - it needs practice and dedication and if you keep trying out different styles (rock, blues, jazz etc) instead of mastering the basics it can lead to problems later on.
I don't agree that you have to use I AM mantra. Whoever said that was wrong. One shoe size doesn't fit all people. And lastly, it isn't about techniques, it is about love.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 03:31:00 AM
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Christi,
In kundalini everything is "sensations" even the ecstasies. I can be in stillness, but its also another "sensation". Maybe you are right that 4 months are short time for a mantra, but when I practiced the SHREE OM internally, I felt it immediately flowing up in my spine. so if I felt the Shree Om since the first day, why not the I am ? if I have 4 months trying with this mantra ? I'm still practicing this mantra, but its so slow on my body. You are right, I want to feel sensations, but all K energy is that, even the chakra's openings, love, or ecstasies, all are sensations, even in Jhanas there are sensations, but people try to block them out. Even Samadhi is a sensation, a very strong one, but its just another sensation nothing more. Also the sutras are sensations.
What is the goal of stillness ? ecstasy ? or love, or blissfulness, all of them are sensations. even if we don't look for them, we are always waiting for a "sensation"
Knowledge
Communication with angels, or guides, or whatever.
Love
Connectedness
Happiness
Ecstasy
Samahdi
All are sensations that we internally want to experiment. If we are honest with ourselves.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
quote:
I have practiced the I am maybe for 4 months, and my inner self is telling me that is not working,
It sounds like you are doing really well. I agree with Gumpi, silence is the goal of meditation, not inner energy experiences which come and go.
It sounds to me as if you feel it is not working because you are looking for "sensations". But Kundalini yoga, and AYP are not designed to produce sensations. Sensations can be a by-product of yoga (just as they can in Jhana absorptions), but stillness and ecstatic love are the real goals. And ecstatic love comes as a result of surrendering into silence.
Four months is a very short time to be using a mantra for. I would stick with it and see how far you can go.
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 03:51:55 AM
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Gumpi
Love is a sensation, a beautiful one, like the ecstasy, or Samadhi.
It's impossible to live in this planet without expectations, in the meditation we expect to be better in some way or another. We love our kids, but we expect them to bring us good notes, and to behave. We love God, and we expect him to listen to us. In meditation we expect to grow more in spirituality or to know more, (unconsciously). I expect this world to be a paradise, as was given to us by God, and we have made a Hell of it. I expect this planet to be alive cause its our home, and also I expect that human beings were like brothers, without borders, instead of figthing and killing each other. But I'm just dreaming.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I felt i had to add something.
Love has no expectations. When you love a person you can expect them to hurt you, but that doesn't matter because you love them.
In the same way, love knows no expectations, so when you meditate, do it out of love and the time will fly and you will feel good. And loving without expecting a return for it gets registered in the spiritual karmic bank account. So, the more you meditate for the love of meditation rather than expecting anything from it, the more mature you are. And this maturity is the crown jewel of experience. Because when you expect nothing, suddenly everything is there. And you don't even have to work for it.
So love, to me, is the essence of bhakti, karma, jnana and kriya. The action of loving in meditation and every day life, being free from results, ie the end is not taken for the means, is real love, and it produces endeless results.
Sorry, i ranted.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 07:22:21 AM
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Hi Neli,
quote:
Christi,
In kundalini everything is "sensations" even the ecstasies. I can be in stillness, but its also another "sensation".
Enter the silence through meditation. It will cause something to well up inside you and pour out of you. It will pour out of your heart, and out of your eyes and out of every cell. It will shine through you and touch everything and make everything it touches sacred. This movement is ecstatic love.
Ride on the wings of ecstatic love and it will take you beyond all sensations, and beyond all expectations.
Christi
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 08:03:31 AM
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Good luck with the guitar. I have played the guitar since 1993 and it has paid off handsomely. A great investment to make. At first it is hard and you just keep on wanting to give up, but if you have a guitar idol and aspire to be like them it makes it worth it in the end. I can honestly say that my guitar saved my life at one point. When you get really good nothing compares with it (except maybe meditation). There are so many guitar books out there, so many styles and techniques, a lifetime is not enough to master it all. THe best part is when you put the time and practice in and show others what you can do and sometimes their jaws drop. Unfotunately this can cause other people to become jealous sometimes but then at least you know who your real friends are.
I think expectations spoil everything. Love means more than a sensation, at least to me it does, and i can't imagine how it could have expectations. A mother might expect her child to be a good boy but even when the child is naughty the mother still loves them. It's a big subject. Don't you think that the secret of work is not for the end but for the means? Because when you take care of the means the end automatically follows. It's an ideal for sure but it's one i like. On the other hand i think having expectations is a good thing. Expect all you want but be prepared for a failure if it comes.
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 10:02:15 AM
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Hi all,
gumpi wrote quote:
THe best part is when you put the time and practice in and show others what you can do and sometimes their jaws drop. Unfotunately this can cause other people to become jealous sometimes but then . . .
Rather than the living who still have lives to live,
I congratulate the dead who have already met death.
Happier than both of these are those who are yet unborn
and have not seen
the evil things that are done
under the sun.
I see that all effort and all achievement
spring from mutual jealousy.
This too is futility and chasing after the
wind.
I'd be eager to share email correspondence with anyone interested in delving into the yogic riches of Ecclesiastes.
thanks,
newpov |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 9:18:28 PM
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Hi Christi,
I've been there, but the time was so short, hope this state would lasts 24 hours per day and all the year. I know what you're talking about, its wonderful, I have no words to describe it. I have felt many ecstasies, not only on the chakras, and this state of blissfulness is great, but lasts just a short time, maybe a couple of days, but then I get back, as human interaction always makes us get back . I'll do what you said, to ride in the wings of the ecstatic love. that sounds terrific !
Thanks for your advice.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
quote:
Christi,
In kundalini everything is "sensations" even the ecstasies. I can be in stillness, but its also another "sensation".
Enter the silence through meditation. It will cause something to well up inside you and pour out of you. It will pour out of your heart, and out of your eyes and out of every cell. It will shine through you and touch everything and make everything it touches sacred. This movement is ecstatic love.
Ride on the wings of ecstatic love and it will take you beyond all sensations, and beyond all expectations.
Christi
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 10:06:57 PM
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Gumpi,
I really want to learn to play the guitar (K) I know also that it will take time, maybe a lot of time, but I really want it, I think it worths a lot, altough some people wont agree with me, but I don't care.
You are very right, expectations spoil everything, but its impossible not to have them. Love is more than a sensation, I agree with you, but its a sensation beyond human understanding, I mean the universal love, not the human love/hate sensations. I have heard that "the end justifies the means", although we must be pure with the "means"
God erased and killed the enemies of the Jews, to liberate them from slavery, so the means justify the end.
A Mom can love so much her kids, even if they are naughty, that is a sensation of human love, but not universal love. A real Mom, can love all the kids of the planet, not only hers, that's universal love, not human sensations, or reactions. We tend to love our friends, kids, and relatives,(and people that agree with us) nothing more. But true love is beyond this. I think Jesus was right, when saying "Love your enemy" this is very easy to say, but hard to do it. I have learned to love humankind, no matter if friends, or enemies, colors, rich, poors or whatever. They are learning the same as I. When one people hurts another, they are hurting themselves, cause we are mirrors, that's why Jesus said, "they don't know what they're doing".
Even God had expectations on us, but we failed him. We are just humans living a human dream.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
Good luck with the guitar. I have played the guitar since 1993 and it has paid off handsomely. A great investment to make. At first it is hard and you just keep on wanting to give up, but if you have a guitar idol and aspire to be like them it makes it worth it in the end. I can honestly say that my guitar saved my life at one point. When you get really good nothing compares with it (except maybe meditation). There are so many guitar books out there, so many styles and techniques, a lifetime is not enough to master it all. THe best part is when you put the time and practice in and show others what you can do and sometimes their jaws drop. Unfotunately this can cause other people to become jealous sometimes but then at least you know who your real friends are.
I think expectations spoil everything. Love means more than a sensation, at least to me it does, and i can't imagine how it could have expectations. A mother might expect her child to be a good boy but even when the child is naughty the mother still loves them. It's a big subject. Don't you think that the secret of work is not for the end but for the means? Because when you take care of the means the end automatically follows. It's an ideal for sure but it's one i like. On the other hand i think having expectations is a good thing. Expect all you want but be prepared for a failure if it comes.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 09:50:05 AM
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quote:
Chriti wrote:
Enter the silence through meditation. It will cause something to well up inside you and pour out of you. It will pour out of your heart, and out of your eyes and out of every cell. It will shine through you and touch everything and make everything it touches sacred. This movement is ecstatic love.
Ride on the wings of ecstatic love and it will take you beyond all sensations, and beyond all expectations.
That was beautiful Christi! And it is my experience as well, little by little, everyday.
Neli, it is not impossible not to have expectations. And don't expect to be riding the wings of ecstatic love overnight or after a very blissful meditation experience, it is very unlikely to happen. Just stick to a method that works, without expectations, steadily and confortably. One day, without any notice, you will notice that you are different and you will feel the love. No expectations needed. Just knowing. So, either you have faith or you don't. Whatever the mantra or meditation method you use, have faith in it and stick with it, but have no expectations. I know, it sounds like a paradox, but that's the way it goes Just choose one practice, do the practices like brushing your teeth for some time, and, without even wanting to, you will see.
For me the I AM mantra works beautifully and I recommend it. I just do 10 minutes of it twice a day and in my case it is enough. I might extend it later if I can handle more of it. The fact that a certain mantra (SHREE OM I AM) seems to give you ecstatic feelings in one session does not mean it is great over the long run. when I try OM, for example, I feel overloaded. I AM seems safe enough. But then again, everybody is different |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 10:45:00 AM
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I just want to say that the I AM mantra works for me pretty well....I have tried for a few weeks adding the mantra additions, but I always seem to end up coming back to using just the I AM even if I don't mean to. The mantra does me sometimes and I can't help it. I can hit beautiful deep silence with the Sri Om Sri Om I AM I AM Namah, but usually once I am in the silence and no longer focusing on the mantra I find that I am doing the I AM instead. It always seems to revert back to I AM. Maybe I'm just not ready for the mantra enhancement and that is fine with me.
On the topic of the choosing of the words I AM by Yogani, I have to say this....
Yogani didn't "make up" the mantra I AM like some of you seem to think. This mantra has existed for a LONG time. It is the ungiven name of GOD. I don't really even think that Yogani CHOSE the mantra, I think it chose him. And if it doesn't work for you, that's probably cause it's a subtle mantra unlike the Gayatri mantra and others. But subtle can be better in my opinion. It forces you to focus on your "subtle" Self. Expectations only lead to suffering. Stop expecting ANYTHING from the I AM mantra and it WILL work. Maybe not the way you want it to, but maybe "you" don't know best what's best for "you"? I am no exception.
Love,
Carson |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 2:04:02 PM
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Great post Carson.
You say the I AM mantra has existed for a long time and is the ungiven name of god. From what tradition does it sprung, do you know? I am just curious.
The I AM mantra works for me as well and I agree that it seems to be a subtle mantra. Nonetheless, less can be more in these cases. I also find out that sometimes, just doing awareness of breath meditation is enough to go deep for me. Once you cultivated silence you find it much more easily as soon as you go in a little bit |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 2:25:47 PM
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Hi YogaisLife,
As far as I know, the English words I AM originate from the Bible. But personally I don't think "I AM" has an origin. Which is why it makes for such a good mantra. I think, as I said before, it is the "ungiven" name of God. "Ungiven" meaning it was His name before there were words. It's not about the words, it's not about the meaning, it's about the VIBRATION of the sound of I AM. It is what existed before existance. Am and Om have the same vibration to me, so I have a hard time understanding how people can feel a difference between the two, but with the addition of the I before AM, I think it takes on a higher purpose this vibration. Am and Om seem to ME to resonate right up and down the spine and the I seems to resonate right in the head area. So...that said, yes there are MANY mantras and vibrations that will take us deep. Awareness of Awareness meditations have taken me even deeper then the I AM mantra, BUT I believe in the I AM mantra and I'm not going to let experiences or lack thereof, discourage me into finding a better mantra. This is my personal decision and I can see why some people could and would get discouraged with the lack of apparent effects from the I AM mantra, but I think these people need to have a little more faith and a little less expectation. Just my opinions though, so take it all with a grain of salt!
Love,
Carson |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 8:00:10 PM
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Hi YogaIsLife,
Thanks for your advice, I'll try not to have expectations, actually I really don't have them, as this path is very much alike to the Shaman's Path, they have no expectacions, only to be "aware", and the Shaman also lives in a sacred world, that is his world.
What happens is that I chant mantras (japa) and feel the energy immediately running up to the crown, so its impossible not to get funny with this, its like "entertainment" or "show" of the energy.
But also I chant internally, the Shree Om I AM, and have noticed that when I sing the I am (inner) the energy declines. maybe you are right, I have not to put attention to the "effects" or "show" sensations or whatever of the energy.
I really like the I AM but my body finds this feeble, I don't understand why the Shree Om works immediately and the other doesn't want to work with me. Maybe I have to be patient.
Can you tell me what is to be overloaded ?? with what?? energy??
And why you found the I am mantra "safer", safer of what??
I don't know what is to feel "overloaded", and why the mantras are dangerous.
I had stick to this method for 4 months, and found that it works, although I don't do it word by word, but in my own way, or pace, cause I just went out of Jhanas, and one of the rules of Jhanas is "there are no rules" (in a sense)just teachings. That's what I loved the most of Jhanas, but now I am stick to the K path.
Thanks for your reply
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
Chriti wrote:
Enter the silence through meditation. It will cause something to well up inside you and pour out of you. It will pour out of your heart, and out of your eyes and out of every cell. It will shine through you and touch everything and make everything it touches sacred. This movement is ecstatic love.
Ride on the wings of ecstatic love and it will take you beyond all sensations, and beyond all expectations.
That was beautiful Christi! And it is my experience as well, little by little, everyday.
Neli, it is not impossible not to have expectations. And don't expect to be riding the wings of ecstatic love overnight or after a very blissful meditation experience, it is very unlikely to happen. Just stick to a method that works, without expectations, steadily and confortably. One day, without any notice, you will notice that you are different and you will feel the love. No expectations needed. Just knowing. So, either you have faith or you don't. Whatever the mantra or meditation method you use, have faith in it and stick with it, but have no expectations. I know, it sounds like a paradox, but that's the way it goes Just choose one practice, do the practices like brushing your teeth for some time, and, without even wanting to, you will see.
For me the I AM mantra works beautifully and I recommend it. I just do 10 minutes of it twice a day and in my case it is enough. I might extend it later if I can handle more of it. The fact that a certain mantra (SHREE OM I AM) seems to give you ecstatic feelings in one session does not mean it is great over the long run. when I try OM, for example, I feel overloaded. I AM seems safe enough. But then again, everybody is different
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 8:27:16 PM
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Carson,
Just one comment, the name of God depends on the region, we know it as Elohim, El-Shaddai, Adonai, or G-d, others as Krishna, Shiva, Ishvara, Allah and many many others names, including Jesus of course.
But I AM is not the name of God, we can see also the Kabbalah and the 72 names of God. But we can call him/her whatever the name, the important thing is that we can feel listened by the name we choose.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I just want to say that the I AM mantra works for me pretty well....I have tried for a few weeks adding the mantra additions, but I always seem to end up coming back to using just the I AM even if I don't mean to. The mantra does me sometimes and I can't help it. I can hit beautiful deep silence with the Sri Om Sri Om I AM I AM Namah, but usually once I am in the silence and no longer focusing on the mantra I find that I am doing the I AM instead. It always seems to revert back to I AM. Maybe I'm just not ready for the mantra enhancement and that is fine with me.
On the topic of the choosing of the words I AM by Yogani, I have to say this....
Yogani didn't "make up" the mantra I AM like some of you seem to think. This mantra has existed for a LONG time. It is the ungiven name of GOD. I don't really even think that Yogani CHOSE the mantra, I think it chose him. And if it doesn't work for you, that's probably cause it's a subtle mantra unlike the Gayatri mantra and others. But subtle can be better in my opinion. It forces you to focus on your "subtle" Self. Expectations only lead to suffering. Stop expecting ANYTHING from the I AM mantra and it WILL work. Maybe not the way you want it to, but maybe "you" don't know best what's best for "you"? I am no exception.
Love,
Carson
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2008 : 11:52:00 PM
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Neli,
Those are GIVEN names of God....Given to god by humans. The UNGIVEN name of God in my opinion is I AM.
Love,
Carson |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 06:30:21 AM
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quote:
neli wrote:
Can you tell me what is to be overloaded ?? with what?? energy??
And why you found the I am mantra "safer", safer of what??
Yes, energy. This is a very personal and subjective thing, we all have different patterns of obbstructions, as Yogani says. I believe I had energy overloads in the past out of inquiry (and some unamed energy techniques) and have to be careful of energy running in my system without inner silence (that is why meditation was so beneficial to me even in a short time - 5 months. I truly notice it's calming/centering effects.
As I said each person is different and came from a different place/state and so it is possible that you don't feel any movement of energy with different mantras and so aim at feeling the most from a mantra. I think I am quite sensitive and what I can tell you is that with OM I feel spaced out, dizzy, not grounded at all. I have none such effects with I AM, quite the contrary. I feel more aware, more present. I say it is safe because, from day one, I felt it shielded me from any imbalance or bad feelings/thoughts that might arise inside. I had a clear feeling of it being like the mast of a ship, a centre, a solid post - whenever the sea stormed or the boat rocked, as soon as I came back to the mantra I was safe, as if I was helding on to a solid mast in a storm. This is how it is felt for me. That is why I say it is safe, and at the same time works as I notice its effects very clearly in my daily life (I was very uncentered, with many energy problems and, little by little, I seem to find this "solid rock" to be). It is a great thing!
So, do as you think it is best for you. I am just telling you my experience.
Carson, so you don't know the origin of I AM...I am looking for it as I am quite curious guy I read somewhere else in the forums (by Yogani I think) that I AM (or AYAM) has been around for a long time and I think it had also an islamic tradition. But more than that I am fascinated by the fact that vibrations have a powerful effect in our nervous system and that they can literally change (or clean) us from inside. My main interest is to know to what degree it has became a science and to what degree it is know which syllable work and how, and to what effect. For example the I AM, according to Yogani and by many who are using it, is resonating in the thrid eye and then in the spinal nerve. The OM for me has definately a different quality, a more "rounded" quality if you may, resonating around the heart/stomach area and expanding througout the whole body, like a ball expading, like waves in a lake spreading in a cocentric fashion.
I might start another thread and ask if people know of good books where one can learn more about the history of development and the science of mantras. I don't believe it has a very misterious/magical origin ("God in the form of a bird gave it to a human one magical morning" sort of thing) but I believe there is a science behind and some geniuoses souls saw that, applied it, and hopefully, documented it. Hopefully.
All the very best! |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 1:35:17 PM
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I AM obviously has a connection to SO HAM or HAMSA being the sound the breath makes naturally, and which means "I am he". So perhaps the language is all linked by sanskrit roots.
Also, I Am is used at the beginning of affirmations.
And, the "I" in I AM must have some connection to self inquiry meditation. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 5:53:12 PM
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Hi Yogaislife,
I was merely talking about the ENGLISH origins of I AM. In English I believe this comes from the Bible. Yes AYAM is also an Islamic word and there are many others as well, including what Gumpi mentioned above saying that So Ham in Sanskrit means "I am THAT". Or basically I AM. I don't think there ARE human origins to the vibrations of I AM, so I don't think we could accurately trace the philology of it, but that again is just my opinion.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 18 2008 6:14:15 PM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 6:21:43 PM
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Thanks Carson,
Well, what I mean and the idea I have is that the sages of old (indian), the first yogis, realised that different sounds had different effects in the nervous system. Thus they invented mantra meditation. That's what I meant in that it did not have a magical origin. Truth is always truth no matter where or when you are.
What I am interested in is in knowing to what degree thsi science is studied and docuemnted. Do you know of any book or books that might start to explain the effects of the different syllables on the nervous system? That is a fascinating subject for me. I guess, as we become more sensitive, we will be able to see for ourselves how each syllable or sound affects us internally (where it resonates and how). That would be a beautiful time |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 6:42:09 PM
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| Don't forget that the mantra here is not to be a sound, and not to have a meaning. |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 01:17:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
Well, what I mean is that the sages of old (indian), the first yogis, realised that different sounds had different effects in the nervous system. Thus they invented mantra meditation. That's what I meant in that it did not have a magical origin.
What I am interested in is in knowing to what degree this science is studied and documented. Do you know of any book or books that might start to explain the effects of the different syllables on the nervous system? I guess, as we become more sensitive, we will be able to see for ourselves how each syllable or sound affects us internally (where it resonates and how).
Answer: Thomas Ashley Farrand is the man! He is pre-eminent, the best modern scholar on the energetic effects of mantras. He observes that the effect or power of a particular mantra is not tied in any way whatsoever, to an intellectual reflection or musing on its meaning or significance, but quite the opposite. All mantras have a vibrational effect on the human organism. Many mantras have an energetic effect on a particular chakra. This fact is very useful indeed to people like him and to myself as well. There are mantras to balance the chakras. There are mantras that deepen one's sense of devotion to the Sacred. There are mantras that allow one to be in the presence (darshan) of Siddas, the greatest sages of past times, who no longer need a physical body. Meditate in their presence. There are mantras to attract lovers for sexual purposes, to acquire wealth, for a long life, to achieve Shambhala(Buddhist), and for malevolent purposes as well. (But take warning. The cost of doing the latter, in terms of an enormous karmic toll, is unimaginable and totally disasterous in the blackest sense of the word,...if one uses mantras to harm others or for selfish and unspiritual purposes.) As you sow, so shall you reap...
Furthermore all mantra practices have three component levels of practice: spoken, whispered, and recited mentally. Ashley Farrand's audio CD series (6 CD set) called Mantra, Sacred Words of Power is available on interlibrary loan through your local public library and won't cost you a penny to check it out. Or buy it directly from him at his website, sanskritmantras.com. He also has a number of books which all address the science of mantras. I have most all of them. All his books cover various aspects of the study of mantras, the aspects of divinity one may cultivate with their recitation, and their mythological origins as well as how to properly pronounce them. He is an absolute authority on this subject. I love this man and his work. Look over his website.
So the science is all there in all it's glory. The science of mantra, of the Vedas, Upanishads. The Siddhas. Amazing. Short answer is that you don't need to re-invent the wheel. It's all there for the curious and for the devout.
Check him out.
x.j.
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Edited by - x.j. on Oct 19 2008 04:52:35 AM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 02:34:48 AM
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Carson,
You are very right, they are given names of God, the UNGIVEN name of God, cannot exist, as only human beings can give or cannot give names to things or beings including God. I understand that in your opinion you have gave God the name of I AM, as in my opinion I gave him the name of ABA or Baba, but names are not important to God, but our intentions.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Neli,
Those are GIVEN names of God....Given to god by humans. The UNGIVEN name of God in my opinion is I AM.
Love,
Carson
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 03:10:45 AM
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YogaIsLife,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
you said:
"As I said each person is different and came from a different place/state and so it is possible that you don't feel any movement of energy with different mantras and so aim at feeling the most from a mantra".
I am pretty sensitive and can feel the movement of others mantras as well, I can even feel where in my body or soul they work. But I can't feel the I am, I wish to know the why, maybe its working at a different level, in my surroundings I think, cause I have noticed many changes in my life, positive ones, also I am more secure of myself, like if everything in my surroundings have changed, maybe its the I am that its working at this level, and I am just getting aware of it. I mean its working outside of me, not inside. Wow ! this is wonderful if this mantra is working in my surroundings, cause it has changed everything, and in a very beautiful way. I'm just getting aware of this .
Thanks a lot for your reply.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
neli wrote:
Can you tell me what is to be overloaded ?? with what?? energy??
And why you found the I am mantra "safer", safer of what??
Yes, energy. This is a very personal and subjective thing, we all have different patterns of obbstructions, as Yogani says. I believe I had energy overloads in the past out of inquiry (and some unamed energy techniques) and have to be careful of energy running in my system without inner silence (that is why meditation was so beneficial to me even in a short time - 5 months. I truly notice it's calming/centering effects.
As I said each person is different and came from a different place/state and so it is possible that you don't feel any movement of energy with different mantras and so aim at feeling the most from a mantra. I think I am quite sensitive and what I can tell you is that with OM I feel spaced out, dizzy, not grounded at all. I have none such effects with I AM, quite the contrary. I feel more aware, more present. I say it is safe because, from day one, I felt it shielded me from any imbalance or bad feelings/thoughts that might arise inside. I had a clear feeling of it being like the mast of a ship, a centre, a solid post - whenever the sea stormed or the boat rocked, as soon as I came back to the mantra I was safe, as if I was helding on to a solid mast in a storm. This is how it is felt for me. That is why I say it is safe, and at the same time works as I notice its effects very clearly in my daily life (I was very uncentered, with many energy problems and, little by little, I seem to find this "solid rock" to be). It is a great thing!
So, do as you think it is best for you. I am just telling you my experience.
Carson, so you don't know the origin of I AM...I am looking for it as I am quite curious guy I read somewhere else in the forums (by Yogani I think) that I AM (or AYAM) has been around for a long time and I think it had also an islamic tradition. But more than that I am fascinated by the fact that vibrations have a powerful effect in our nervous system and that they can literally change (or clean) us from inside. My main interest is to know to what degree it has became a science and to what degree it is know which syllable work and how, and to what effect. For example the I AM, according to Yogani and by many who are using it, is resonating in the thrid eye and then in the spinal nerve. The OM for me has definately a different quality, a more "rounded" quality if you may, resonating around the heart/stomach area and expanding througout the whole body, like a ball expading, like waves in a lake spreading in a cocentric fashion.
I might start another thread and ask if people know of good books where one can learn more about the history of development and the science of mantras. I don't believe it has a very misterious/magical origin ("God in the form of a bird gave it to a human one magical morning" sort of thing) but I believe there is a science behind and some geniuoses souls saw that, applied it, and hopefully, documented it. Hopefully.
All the very best!
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 03:29:34 AM
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Gumpi
I have worked with the SO HAM, while doing the Pranayama, but not now, wonderful meaning, like a "mirror" (I am he, or I am you)
I wonder if the I AM mantra works different with each one of us. Cause if it is working outside my body, it has made a real Big cleanse in my life (so beautiful and so wonderful). maybe I didn't feel it cause I was waiting to feel it inside my body not outside. If this is so, its the most powerful mantra I have worked with.
Oh God I'm so silly, I have never thought about it before !
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I AM obviously has a connection to SO HAM or HAMSA being the sound the breath makes naturally, and which means "I am he". So perhaps the language is all linked by sanskrit roots.
Also, I Am is used at the beginning of affirmations.
And, the "I" in I AM must have some connection to self inquiry meditation.
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I AM mantra
