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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 6:14:57 PM
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It is called thogal.
It is based on STILLNESS, so I am posting it in this section. There are only two books in english that contain information on practice. One is "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" The other is "The Dalai Lama's Secret Temple"
Basically, what you want to do, is stare, in an asana of your choice at the clear blue sky. Obviously this practice is therefore weather dependent. Rainbows will appear. Continue staring at the rainbows. Stay in stillness.
Result of practice is the highest attainment, the rainbow body also known as the ja lus. Please google these terms.
There are two types of rainbow body. One is the regular rainbow body. The other is the rainbow body of Great Transfer. To obtain the rainbow body of Great Transfer, I will go over in a later post. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 6:21:39 PM
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| Is that really all there is to it? Staring at the blue sky until rainbows appear and then staring at rainbows? |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 7:07:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Is that really all there is to it? Staring at the blue sky until rainbows appear and then staring at rainbows?
Yes, but also a deep previous experience of the NOW, lhun grub in tibetan language. Read Eckhart Tolle's "Power of Now". Basically the rainbows are spontaneously occurring in the NOW.
Please google the term "ja lus" for more information, or the previously aforementioned books. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 7:48:19 PM
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I will check out those books. Heart Drops seems very informative on Dzogchen. And the Secret Temple book just looks amazing.
I do know about "ja lus" or light body effect. In the tradition I practice, it's said that we can attain the light body and maintain our physical form if we choose...so anything having to do with this is what has me interested.
Thanks! |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 8:38:16 PM
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Now, you got my attention.
What tradition do you practice? I thought the light body is only in Buddism? |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 9:44:40 PM
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Kunlun (http://kunlunbliss.com/). It's called "gold dragon body" in the tradition. It's like a returnable rainbow body. Apparently the main teacher Max has attained it, as well as a few other students.
I'm open to learning new techniques, so I will definitely look more into this. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 7:26:35 PM
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| Can you give a brief description of kunlun practices? |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 9:01:59 PM
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Sure. I don't mean to use this topic which is for thogal, for kunlun, but since you asked:
You get a transmission at a seminar. There you learn the spontaneous qigong form (from the Kunlun tradition, called kunlun spontaneous neigong level 1), where you assume a certain posture then allow whatever that happens to occur. At the end of that practice you ground the energy. There's another practice called red phoenix level 1 (from the Maoshan tradition) which is a mudra/moving the energy with intention crown practice. Same thing, ground afterwards, but with a slightly different position.
Those are the two main practices which are said to lead to gold dragon body. Of course that's not all that's covered at the seminar, there are tons of other side practices that can help, as well as tips (such as massaging the head vigorously after red phoenix, relaxing the body, listening to mongolian throat singing music to get yourself out of your head for the spontaneous practice, etc). After that point it's basically: figure it out yourself. So it's not a tradition about teaching things; you just learn the practices then do them and see what happens/refine the practices on your own.
Then there are 3 other levels to each of the practices. Those you can start after a minimum of 6 months practice...some people seem to start them earlier, but 6 months is a safety thing
The first levels are the "minimum requirements" for GDB. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 10:17:06 PM
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I dont know about GDB, but the rainbow body in buddism is a verified phenomenon. Every couple of years, comes another report of a practitioner's body shrinking to the size of a baby, carried around by the villagers, and then finally disappearing. (This type of rainbow body is the one obtained at "death" The Great Transfer light body is obtained while "alive"). I believe the benedictine monks are studying it right now, because it is Christ-like.
The buddists have several levels of attainment/realization. It starts at a low-level samadhi, then to kundalini types of realizations, all the way to the rainbow body. The rainbow body is the ultimate of ultimates, especially the type achieved before death. Thogal means "leapover" in Tibetan. Thogal skips all intermediate steps, and goes right to the end goal, the rainbow body.
I will reiterate again, the seed of the rainbow body is the NOW.
Also, for further clarification, even though the body is called the rainbow body, the practitioner in the end will NOT look like a bunch of rainbows. He will look like he always does, but when you touch him, your hand will go right through him! He does not cast a shadow. He can appear in any form. He has no limits, and can appear in any heaven or hell. He has full knowledge, and reached the point of "no more learning"
What is crucial to understand, is that the physical brain limits our knowledge. When the body converts back to the 5 elements (the same 5 elements in hinduism with the same names)represented by the colors of the rainbows, AUTOMATICALLY all obstructions to knowledge is removed.
You cannot gain full knowledge in the physical body! It is impossible. It just not compatibile with the higher reality. You can gain "a lot" admittedly through kundalini, but not full. |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2008 : 7:15:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson
You cannot gain full knowledge in the physical body! It is impossible. It just not compatibile with the higher reality. You can gain "a lot" admittedly through kundalini, but not full.
Hi alwayson,
Since you are in the physical body, how can you claim to be fully certain that your proposition is true?
Such full certainty requires the full knowledge you say you cannot gain in the physical body.
Namaste,
Suryakant
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2008 : 9:33:27 PM
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I agree...it sounds good in theory. I'm all for testing it for myself out, though.
     
That's supposed to be a rainbow of smilies. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2008 : 4:31:42 PM
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| By the way, month long or longer total dark retreats and sungazing are also parts of thogal practice |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2008 : 07:51:46 AM
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| Interesting. When I had my Kundalini Awakening I saw a rainbow coming out of my solar plexus. Also, lots of golden Buddhas as well. I've been studying Tibetan Buddhism for a while now. I'd heard about very high Rinpoches becoming rainbows when they died, but I didn't know about Thogal. I will look into it. |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 2:00:27 PM
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Dzogchen and rainbow body. In Tibetan tradition, attaining the "rainbow body" is described as some kind of achievement, like getting a black belt. What the hell does the rainbow body have to do with leading people out of suffering and into the path of enlightenment?
In my humble opinion, what is happening is magic. They are visualizing themselves as rays of light and then becoming that. In fact, the core of the Cosmos are emanations of rainbow lights. These are the subtle yet physical elements of our Cosmos. They are illusory. Why would anyone chase after rainbows? It's delusional.
The delusion can be made into something relatively real, the dharmakaya. The Buddha was interested preventing rebirth in all realms. As far as the Buddha is concerned, he is beyond any kaya, and has ceased.
Sadly, I can't agree that togel or thekcho or any of these Bon practices are higher than Dharma. Dharma is, by definition, the most basic, elementary and highest teaching. The Tibetan tradition has piled on layers of sediment.
The Buddha's only command was "cling to nothing whatsoever" to cease grasping onto the compound notions giving rise to your self. That urge to be is your suffering. Now you urge to be a rainbow. Stop that. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 7:52:57 PM
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Interesting viewpoint!
I always viewed it as the same phenomenon: rainbow body and enlightenment. Someone who achieves rainbow body has let go of all things.
I could be wrong...and for all I know and have experienced, rainbow body isn't even real. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 10:05:22 AM
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Hi Themysticseeker,
quote:
In my humble opinion, what is happening is magic. They are visualizing themselves as rays of light and then becoming that. In fact, the core of the Cosmos are emanations of rainbow lights. These are the subtle yet physical elements of our Cosmos. They are illusory. Why would anyone chase after rainbows? It's delusional.
How do you know about these lights, and what makes you think they are illusory?
Christi |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 4:20:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
How do you know about these lights, and what makes you think they are illusory?
Christi
Simply stated, they are illusory, because they are material, subtle but material. They have no independent nature. They are dependent on the potentiality from which they emanate. They are from the source, generated by the source.
How do I know about these? I wish you did not have to ask. I could tell you that I have seen the light. I could also tell you I have seen the end of time, perhaps it was the beginning, beneath the light. Having seen, seeing ceased. The source of all is a very deep mystery.
In the beginning and the end, the Cosmos was without form, and void, formless and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep Mystery of mysteries.
Without form, void, formless, empty, not conscious, selfless, unlit, deep, dark.
It is not the lights which are ultimately real, but the darkness. It is this essential darkness which generates the selfless nature of love, and love generates this Cosmos and we in it.
Merging into the lights is merging into other illusory worlds where the truth cannot be realized. Merging into the Mystery is merging into our true nature, here, now, on this Earth, this other-worldly paradise realm where our sole opportunity for enlightenment is possible.
Imagine what this world would be for the enlightened. This world is perfectly balanced, a pristine oasis ripe for the enjoyment of the truly selfless lovers.
Only here, now is Great Peace and knowledge of the Deep Mystery a real possibility.
HA!
TMS |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 6:03:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
What the hell does the rainbow body have to do with leading people out of suffering and into the path of enlightenment?
Unless one is perfectly enlightened, one does not know with absolute metaphysical certainty whether or not any given individual's particular path of enlightenment may or may not require said individual to temporarily engage concepts such as, for example, the Tibetan Buddhist rainbow body. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 6:22:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
What the hell does the rainbow body have to do with leading people out of suffering and into the path of enlightenment?
Unless one is perfectly enlightened, one does not know with absolute metaphysical certainty whether or not any given individual's particular path of enlightenment may or may not require said individual to temporarily engage concepts such as, for example, the Tibetan Buddhist rainbow body.
There you have it. The rainbow body does not belong to Tibetan Buddhists. It is, was and has always been a highest attainment of yoga. It is yoga that the perfectly enlightened Buddha declared was not the way, as all things are unreal, dissatisfying and the source of sorrow. With absolute metaphysical certainty I can tell you that there is no such thing as absolute metaphysical certainty. Who told you there was? If you think there is, then you are deluded and I am a perfectly enlightened being.
HA!
TMS |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 6:25:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
What the hell does the rainbow body have to do with leading people out of suffering and into the path of enlightenment?
Unless one is perfectly enlightened, one does not know with absolute metaphysical certainty whether or not any given individual's particular path of enlightenment may or may not require said individual to temporarily engage concepts such as, for example, the Tibetan Buddhist rainbow body.
Hi All:
Yes, isn't it ironic that when we feel we have transcended our intellect, the first thing we do is judge the paths of others with our intellect?
It is a common mistake made by those who profess non-duality (real or imagined). It boils down to an assumption of our exclusive correctness, and then the teaching automatically becomes simplified down to the statement: "Just be, like me."
And to blazes with what everyone else is doing!
There are certainly next steps beyond that narrow view, where we can begin to see that everyone is on a valid path in their own right, and we learn to respect that and share in ways that can help aspirants move forward from where they are, instead of from where we are. The latter is impossible, you know.
Unfortunately, many buy into this kind of faulty teaching, but maybe not so much around these parts, where a broader view tends to prevail. It keeps us all honest.
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 6:40:33 PM
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| PS: As many here know, the advice in AYP is to favor the practice (whatever our practice is) over the scenery (whatever the scenery may be). If the practice is effective, in time we will know the truth. We will know it by direct experience, not by what anyone else tells us it is, or is not. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 8:47:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
What the hell does the rainbow body have to do with leading people out of suffering and into the path of enlightenment?
Unless one is perfectly enlightened, one does not know with absolute metaphysical certainty whether or not any given individual's particular path of enlightenment may or may not require said individual to temporarily engage concepts such as, for example, the Tibetan Buddhist rainbow body.
Hi All:
Yes, isn't it ironic that when we feel we have transcended our intellect, the first thing we do is judge the paths of others with our intellect?
It is a common mistake made by those who profess non-duality (real or imagined). It boils down to an assumption of our exclusive correctness, and then the teaching automatically becomes simplified down to the statement: "Just be, like me."
And to blazes with what everyone else is doing!
There are certainly next steps beyond that narrow view, where we can begin to see that everyone is on a valid path in their own right, and we learn to respect that and share in ways that can help aspirants move forward from where they are, instead of from where we are. The latter is impossible, you know.
Unfortunately, many buy into this kind of faulty teaching, but maybe not so much around these parts, where a broader view tends to prevail. It keeps us all honest.
The guru is in you.
Yoganiji, I respect you. I am not judging anyone's path or practice. The defensiveness is being displayed here is not surprising. I am not saying be like me. I'm also being called an advaitan, even by you, Yoganiji. I'm not. Perhaps I am the evangelist of selflessness. I say to you respectfully, selflessness is not scenery. The practice must incorporate selflessness as the object of meditation to avoid the blockade that almost all yogis encounter on the path.
Your teaching is faulty because you don't grasp the meaning of what I say. We have our intellects to communicate with one another ji. If I have seen the interconnected compound character of nature, and have recognized the self as a concocted fiction, then I use my intellect to communicate the truth. If I have seen the end and have seen the rainbow body as the beginning of the compound concoctions, then I may use my intellect to communicate the truth.
Yours is the narrow view, the limited view of I AM. I wish you all enlightenment, not enemies, not foes, not winning or losing. I suggest you keep an open mind and look closer at what I say. We are not One. Oneness is the self-similar quality of self. If you see oneness when I say selflessness, you don't see clearly. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 9:43:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
PS: As many here know, the advice in AYP is to favor the practice (whatever our practice is) over the scenery (whatever the scenery may be). If the practice is effective, in time we will know the truth. We will know it by direct experience, not by what anyone else tells us it is, or is not.
I'm not speaking about the one way. I'm speaking about the truth spoken by Mohammed, Jesus, Lau Tzu, the Buddha, and the Hopi. I speak about the narrow view of the ultimate openness of the selfless heart. If that's narrow to you, then I warn you that if selfless love is not your initial dedication and intention your fruit will be the result of ego-aggrandizement of I Am. Only the altruistic dedication to selflessness will reap the fruit of enlightenment. Disregard that at your peril. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 9:46:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Yoganiji, I respect you ... Your teaching is faulty ... Yours is the narrow view ... We are not One ... you don't see clearly.
How about this... You... are... wrong... |
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