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neli
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 8:12:18 PM
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Hi,
Can we control the Ego ? For How long time can we control it ?
We can be very spiritual one day and the other we can be very embarassed by daily problems and we react as our "ego" truly is, so we leave aside our mask of spirituality to let the ego spurt out.
The moment we feel offended by someone, the moment that our ego reacts with anger and resentment, hate or repulsion. So what are we ? spirits trapped in the games of the ego? or egos trapped in the games of the spirit ?
Just think about this, for how long time can you control your ego, try to think on someone you don't like, which part of you doesn't like the other ? or any situation or thinking ?
If we are christians, or whatever, we don't want to talk with someone that is not like us, because of the ego, it doesn't let us get along with someone different to us, be it in thinking, beliefs, race, or countries.
We think that we are right, but who is right ? the ego ?
We feel superior/inferior to others, because of the ego. Or we can feel the same as others, that are much alike us in thinking, but we see others very different and we cannot understand them. Who is stopping our understanding?
The ego is always labelling everything and everyone. (That's the why John Lenon was so wise with his song "let it be")
Why we can get along with some people and with others we cannot ? We like some people and with others we feel offended even to talk to, Why ?
Because the Ego is always present in us, at each moment is stalking on something or someone our ego dosen't like.
I don't think anyone can control their ego for more than 24 hours. Besides, who control the ego? another ego ? How many egos do we have ?
Sat Nam
Neli |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 8:38:36 PM
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Remember: ego spelled sideways is geo.  |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 03:07:17 AM
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The ego is something that needs to be nutured not controlled...
Thats why it rebels...
I got that from my brief readings of another tradition but I think it fits in with AYP...
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mufad
44 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 04:34:11 AM
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Hi Neli,
The Ego is an illusion in the mind to create a sense of a separate self.
The unchanging absolute puts on a mask of division to appear to be many separate entities, these are self-aware to different degrees, the mind of the human creates an ego to meaningfully interact in duality. It creates still more division by creating multiple personalities within itself, a higher self that needs to control a lower self. In truth, there is no ego, but this cannot be known as long as there is someone who is trying to know it !
Let it be,
Mufad.
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 08:24:59 AM
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| mufad - wow! |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 11:29:33 AM
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Mufad
If the Ego is an illusion, who thinks inside us, and label, and react to many things? The inner self or the mask ?
If the absolute puts a mask to appear, then we are masks, our personalities are maks too. How can we distinguish the higher self from the lower one ?
I mean if there is no ego as you say, who labells all the time, and makes us feel sometimes bad, sometimes fine, the inner self ?
Maybe the inner self is observing the mask, like a witness.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by mufad
Hi Neli,
The Ego is an illusion in the mind to create a sense of a separate self.
The unchanging absolute puts on a mask of division to appear to be many separate entities, these are self-aware to different degrees, the mind of the human creates an ego to meaningfully interact in duality. It creates still more division by creating multiple personalities within itself, a higher self that needs to control a lower self. In truth, there is no ego, but this cannot be known as long as there is someone who is trying to know it !
Let it be,
Mufad.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 11:55:26 AM
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Mahabaratara
I agree with you, it has to be nurtured, but how ? and for how long ? we always fall down in the traps of the ego. Its hard to escape its games.
Who thinks inside us, the ego or the inner self ?
I think the inner self is always observing the ego, and the ego (our masks, personalities) is unaware of the existance of the inner self. I think the mind is also part of the ego.
I would like to know when does the inner self interacts with people, cause I think that our ego is always and at full time present on us.
I always try to catch the interaction of my inner self, and always catch my ego masking itself as the inner self, its hard to know which is whom.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by mahabaratara
The ego is something that needs to be nutured not controlled...
Thats why it rebels...
I got that from my brief readings of another tradition but I think it fits in with AYP...
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 12:02:45 PM
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That's very right, it fits very well 
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
Remember: ego spelled sideways is geo.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 12:13:14 PM
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Neli,
See if this topic helps:
The Ego
Ego will dissolve.. rather lose it's hold on you as you continue with your practice and add some self inquiry to your life. Once you see though your "mind/ego stories" it cannot have the same hold on you. And as you disprove more and more of your mind stories.. it will kinda get hard to take your ego too seriously. It is a process. Just keep in mind, discussing, analyzing, reasoning, figuring out is what egos do and love best. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 12:33:31 PM
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| I don't believe there is such a thing as no ego. The bigger Self is at the back of the things it created. Why would it seek to destroy what it has created? |
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eputkonen
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 12:41:57 PM
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“Can we control the Ego ? For How long time can we control it ?”
Who is that “we” – the egos. The ego can not control the ego. Any attempts to control are an action by the ego. We can not control it…we are it.
“I don't think anyone can control their ego for more than 24 hours. Besides, who control the ego? another ego ? How many egos do we have ?”
There isn’t really even one ego…it is only a word – a concept – so we can speak about an aspect of the mind. But it is all just the mind…no matter how many times it appears to split itself.
I would suggest not trying to control it…just investigate it and look into it deeply. Once a mirage is recognized as a mirage, it ceases to cause confusion.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen |
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eputkonen
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 1:05:38 PM
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Hi Neli,
As Mufad and I have the similar replies…and am following up to the additional questions.
quote:
If the Ego is an illusion, who thinks inside us, and label, and react to many things?
There is no “who” inside us who thinks, labels, and reacts. There is just the mind….there is just thought.
Thought occurs…like digestion…without an intentional doer. Is there a “who” when a tree grows? There is no intentional doer…it is an inherent aspect/function of trees to grow…they are not “doing” it. It is an inherent aspect/function of water to down hill…and yet we say the river runs through the backyard or the river is flowing – there is no “who” that runs or flows. The idea of there being a “who” that thinks, labels, etc. is a figment of mind (consciousness/awareness). That localization (the thinker of the thought) is the ego – a figment of mind…imaginary.
quote:
I mean if there is no ego as you say, who labells all the time, and makes us feel sometimes bad, sometimes fine, the inner self ?
All the mind…the mind labels because it is a habit. There is nothing making you feel bad or sometimes fine…it is the minds reaction to interpretation to what is at the moment. Also totally arbitrary and imaginary.
Imagine a bad day at work and afterwards a terrible commute home…only to find that your wife or husband has had a car accident. He or she is not injured, but it will cost 3,000 to fix the car. You may likely feel bad?
Imagine now a bad day at work, but after work during the commute you called and find out you won publisher’s clearinghouse or the lottery or something…you won 10 million dollars! Now you come home to find your husband or wife has had a car accident. She or he is not injured, but it will coast 3,000 to fix the car. You will likely be happy they are not injured and the money doesn’t matter (the day does not matter) because you won 10 million…you feel fine (if not good).
Just mental reactions to the happenings in life…just the mind. There is no “who” making you feel bad or fine.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
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Edited by - eputkonen on Sep 23 2008 1:31:46 PM |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 2:37:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by neli
That's very right, it fits very well
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
Remember: ego spelled sideways is geo.
Thanks! Sometimes my sense of humor is a bit "earthy".  |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 8:09:07 PM
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Shanti,
Thanks for the links, I liked very much the one of the filters, I have to read them slowly, to get the point.
To dissolve the ego can take a life time, but at least one can control it a little bit, not even Jesus could control his ego in the cross, when he doubted (his ego) and complained to his father. I think Buddha was the only one that dissolved the ego totally. When we confront any situation its when the ego jumps. I think that the ego dissolves totally with death, before we can try to control it. But also it can be the ego controlling its own emotions. Its hard to understand if we are only trying to control the emotions of the ego.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Neli,
See if this topic helps:
The Ego
Ego will dissolve.. rather lose it's hold on you as you continue with your practice and add some self inquiry to your life. Once you see though your "mind/ego stories" it cannot have the same hold on you. And as you disprove more and more of your mind stories.. it will kinda get hard to take your ego too seriously. It is a process. Just keep in mind, discussing, analyzing, reasoning, figuring out is what egos do and love best.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 8:19:42 PM
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Gumpi,
I think its kinda impossible not to have ego. But I think also that the higher self is like a watcher, I'm always trying to see the watcher acting inside me, but what I always see is the ego.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I don't believe there is such a thing as no ego. The bigger Self is at the back of the things it created. Why would it seek to destroy what it has created?
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 8:43:50 PM
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I think "we" are the egos, and you are right, the ego cannot control itself. The mind can be a different aspect of the ego though.
I try not to control it but to catch the inner self up, when interacting in daily life, something very difficult to do. I mean the ego can pretend to be the inner self, and deceit us. Maybe the inner self is present when we are out of the body. I know that the ego fights, discusses, labells, judges, dislikes and makes us feel bad when we don't like any situation but its also our warrior, it defends us of any danger situation, I think the ego has to have the good side, like the preservation of the body.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by eputkonen
“Can we control the Ego ? For How long time can we control it ?”
Who is that “we” – the egos. The ego can not control the ego. Any attempts to control are an action by the ego. We can not control it…we are it.
“I don't think anyone can control their ego for more than 24 hours. Besides, who control the ego? another ego ? How many egos do we have ?”
There isn’t really even one ego…it is only a word – a concept – so we can speak about an aspect of the mind. But it is all just the mind…no matter how many times it appears to split itself.
I would suggest not trying to control it…just investigate it and look into it deeply. Once a mirage is recognized as a mirage, it ceases to cause confusion.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 9:12:38 PM
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mufad, eric
I ask this sincerely, your posts are they from experience or from teachings? and of course through teachinns we may experience but until the experience I belive it is only theory. I would like to experience some of the tings spoken of on here and I do like listening to personal stories so if you have experienced these things and would not mind sharing the journey a little more i (but not sure who i am :)) would like to read about it. It is one thing to read the teachings of someone whom you cannot communicate with but another thing to have discussion of someone of direct experience. Again, I ask this in humility for if you have experienced these things I have not recongnized it much in my life yet.
an offshoot to the 10 million dollar winning, when a child smiles is it not happy to see its mother, if I help someone in need and see true grattitude that melts my heart. SO mind/ego is seperate from this? i am confused but i have experienced more lately of less thoughts and more feelings of love, i am addicted to them and want to live in that but when i feel seperated i attach to seperation and wonder how to get it back.
i am love, i am joy, i am peace, i am neil |
Edited by - brother neil on Sep 23 2008 10:12:59 PM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 9:14:13 PM
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Hi Eric,
Your approach its very interesting. If we are just mental reactions, where is the inner self ? You are very right, we are always reacting to any situation depending of our habitual thinking. We cannot stop the flow, but maybe we can educate it. But what is the "mind" ? the flow of our thinking ? if so, where is our inner self or higher consciousness ?
If we are just mental reactions, then we are just robots. I understand that all our mental reactions can be the ego reactions, that we can barely control. I think that the higher self can control the ego, or the mental reactions of the thinking, but how can we see this higher self interacting with us?
The eagle just control the serpent while in its mouth, doesn't kill it, cause maybe its a tool for the eagle.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by eputkonen
Hi Neli,
As Mufad and I have the similar replies…and am following up to the additional questions.
quote:
If the Ego is an illusion, who thinks inside us, and label, and react to many things?
There is no “who” inside us who thinks, labels, and reacts. There is just the mind….there is just thought.
Thought occurs…like digestion…without an intentional doer. Is there a “who” when a tree grows? There is no intentional doer…it is an inherent aspect/function of trees to grow…they are not “doing” it. It is an inherent aspect/function of water to down hill…and yet we say the river runs through the backyard or the river is flowing – there is no “who” that runs or flows. The idea of there being a “who” that thinks, labels, etc. is a figment of mind (consciousness/awareness). That localization (the thinker of the thought) is the ego – a figment of mind…imaginary.
quote:
I mean if there is no ego as you say, who labells all the time, and makes us feel sometimes bad, sometimes fine, the inner self ?
All the mind…the mind labels because it is a habit. There is nothing making you feel bad or sometimes fine…it is the minds reaction to interpretation to what is at the moment. Also totally arbitrary and imaginary.
Imagine a bad day at work and afterwards a terrible commute home…only to find that your wife or husband has had a car accident. He or she is not injured, but it will cost 3,000 to fix the car. You may likely feel bad?
Imagine now a bad day at work, but after work during the commute you called and find out you won publisher’s clearinghouse or the lottery or something…you won 10 million dollars! Now you come home to find your husband or wife has had a car accident. She or he is not injured, but it will coast 3,000 to fix the car. You will likely be happy they are not injured and the money doesn’t matter (the day does not matter) because you won 10 million…you feel fine (if not good).
Just mental reactions to the happenings in life…just the mind. There is no “who” making you feel bad or fine.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 9:17:09 PM
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It's good to be earthy !
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
quote:
Originally posted by neli
That's very right, it fits very well
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
Remember: ego spelled sideways is geo.
Thanks! Sometimes my sense of humor is a bit "earthy".
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eputkonen
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 08:57:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tubeseeker
I ask this sincerely, your posts are they from experience or from teachings?
Direct experience....not second hand knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by tubeseekeran offshoot to the 10 million dollar winning, when a child smiles is it not happy to see its mother, if I help someone in need and see true grattitude that melts my heart. SO mind/ego is seperate from this?
No different than the 10 million dollar story...just responses/reactions due to the state of mind...all creations of the mind/ego. If you help someone in need and see no gratitude at all...what is your reaction?
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen |
Edited by - eputkonen on Sep 24 2008 09:15:53 AM |
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eputkonen
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 09:15:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by neliIf we are just mental reactions, where is the inner self ?
The inner self is also a concept and mental creation. The Self is prior to thinking and thought. Buddhism sometimes calls it the Primary Mind or the Unborn Mind…adults typically work out of a secondary mind (self image, ego, concepts) and then look for to third mind to control or overcome the second (psychology even gave it a name…super ego. Most conceptions of inner self and higher self are in this category). Sometimes people split and create so much multiplicity that there is a lower self (ego) and a higher self and they are somewhere in the middle…which is all a creation of the mind…there is only the Self – not other selves.
quote:
Originally posted by neliIf we are just mental reactions, then we are just robots.
Action can happen when there is no thought…so there is not just mental reactions. The mind does not make all things happen…things happen even without thinking.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen |
Edited by - eputkonen on Sep 24 2008 09:17:31 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 10:03:22 AM
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eric, so then where is joy, the love for life, the love for one another?
thanks
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am |
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eputkonen
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 4:20:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tubeseeker
eric, so then where is joy, the love for life, the love for one another?
thanks
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am
Joy and love is here and now...just no object nor subject.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 8:52:49 PM
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If its only the Self, then the ego is only a mask, and the Self can have many masks. If the inner Self is a concept and a mental creation, it has to be of the mind, but who creates the mind ? or who owns the mind ? our body ?
Namaste
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by eputkonen
quote:
Originally posted by neliIf we are just mental reactions, where is the inner self ?
The inner self is also a concept and mental creation. The Self is prior to thinking and thought. Buddhism sometimes calls it the Primary Mind or the Unborn Mind…adults typically work out of a secondary mind (self image, ego, concepts) and then look for to third mind to control or overcome the second (psychology even gave it a name…super ego. Most conceptions of inner self and higher self are in this category). Sometimes people split and create so much multiplicity that there is a lower self (ego) and a higher self and they are somewhere in the middle…which is all a creation of the mind…there is only the Self – not other selves.
quote:
Originally posted by neliIf we are just mental reactions, then we are just robots.
Action can happen when there is no thought…so there is not just mental reactions. The mind does not make all things happen…things happen even without thinking.
Namaste,
~ Eric Putkonen
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 03:50:19 AM
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We have the thinking mind and we have what can be called the Big Mind.
The big mind expands infinately outward and infinately inward it has no limits, it is just empty space and yet:
out of this nothingness we have "genesis", which means - out of nothing - something.
That something is us, of course and the universe as we know it, and as we don't know it
At the point of where "nothing becomes something" or "something becomes nothing" is where we want to be.
This is the edge of evolution, it is stillness in action, it is samyama
To be at this edge is to live now and now and now and now.
To try and define this point or this edge in terms of logic or ego is probably pointless. It is probably what they call the "mystery".
However the mystery, whilst it may not be rational or logical, it certainly can be experienced.
If you want to define the ego as this "something" that came from "nothing" then this is one definition, it is our identity as an individual and yet when we reside at the point between nothing and something the importance or the attachments to that form dissolves away.
This is when the stillness becomes resident in form and when control of our lives floats away. Some might define ego as this "control" and losing this control(ego) to the stillness is "being" the edge of evolution.
my 2 cents from limited experience |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 05:13:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
We have the thinking mind and we have what can be called the Big Mind.
The big mind expands infinately outward and infinately inward it has no limits, it is just empty space and yet:
out of this nothingness we have "genesis", which means - out of nothing - something.
That something is us, of course and the universe as we know it, and as we don't know it
At the point of where "nothing becomes something" or "something becomes nothing" is where we want to be.
This is the edge of evolution, it is stillness in action, it is samyama
To be at this edge is to live now and now and now and now.
To try and define this point or this edge in terms of logic or ego is probably pointless. It is probably what they call the "mystery".
However the mystery, whilst it may not be rational or logical, it certainly can be experienced.
If you want to define the ego as this "something" that came from "nothing" then this is one definition, it is our identity as an individual and yet when we reside at the point between nothing and something the importance or the attachments to that form dissolves away.
This is when the stillness becomes resident in form and when control of our lives floats away. Some might define ego as this "control" and losing this control(ego) to the stillness is "being" the edge of evolution.
my 2 cents from limited experience
Nice post Louis
Light and Love
Wolfgang |
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THE EGO and its tricks
