|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 6:23:48 PM
|
what are the thoughts of an evil being existing? 
more than words
Neil
|
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 7:05:05 PM
|
I don't believe in any separate demonic consciousness or entity.
Perhaps the devil is the inclination to choose pleasure over what is beneficial?
Why we choose blindness to what is within, is a mystery to me.
I do not understand evil at all, however..... |
 |
|
|
machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 7:22:37 PM
|
Tube...I'm not a big believer of the horned (horny?) one...I do believe in ignorance and temptation though.
Oh...BTW...
Pleased to meet you...
hope you guess my name...
what's puzzling you ...
is the nature of my game...RS |
Edited by - machart on Sep 09 2008 08:11:31 AM |
|
|
|
enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 02:15:35 AM
|
I've been trying to wrap my head around this one as well. Since we are all practicing yoga, It may be fair to say that we are all battling our own egos to some degree. It does seems to me that their may be a collective ego that operates on the macro level that we could call Satan. Some of the negative forces and apparent conspiracies in the world just seem too large and interwoven to not be connected somehow.
Perhaps as we all overcome our own egos, we collectively overcome "Satan" as well. |
|
|
|
schtroumpsolis
Canada
24 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 7:38:25 PM
|
hi neil
i believe that in all things exist oppositionas there are poeple to incarnate vertue,compassion light etc there are being seeking to incarnate malice,hatred darkness. Was there once upon a time someone who incarnate such horrific vibes now call satan ,lucifer i must say yes.is he around still? look around you the proofs are there for you to see ,feel, and unfortunately expérience.
i do not wish to complement further on how i know for certain the truth of this fact ....i know!
may your hearts rest in peace.
f
|
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2008 : 8:14:06 PM
|
Personally I have had the experience of seeing ultimate evil personified, and can completely understand where the concept came from. But having said that, I also think it is quite possible that the devil only exists because of the thoughts and fears of humans, and would have no life of his own without us. What I saw was conjured by intense fear, and dissapeared upon eradication of the fear.
Watch this video on youtube of the origin of the devil in religion, coming mostly from the desire of the church to have power over people, and people having the desire to externalize their own evil. It's fascinating, and at the same time can take away the fear of the devil as it shows that fear is based upon ignorance.
I do disagree with his premise that faith has no basis in science, as we know here at AYP that faith (bhakti) is a tremendous force for good, not good VS evil, but good as spiritual evolution. But knowing that difference,
watch this incredibly enlightening video (2 parts):
Dancing with the devil, Andrew Rutajit, author of "the Vestibule":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0CHLtpILzQ
|
Edited by - Etherfish on Sep 16 2008 10:17:33 PM |
|
|
|
mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 6:43:22 PM
|
Maybe in mind...
|
|
|
|
Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 04:49:56 AM
|
| Some of Discovery channel's "A Haunting" series involved non-human evil entities. So it seems like they exist. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 07:47:25 AM
|
The concept of evil is a human invention. I propose that all evil comes from mankind.
How could I make such a broad statement? Because we only call things evil that are interested in what men do, and interfere in an unfair way. In other words, an evil entity must be intricately involved in the affairs of humans to be called that.
We don't call mosquitoes evil, or sharks or grizzly bears, even though they ruthlessly take lifeblood or life from humans. That's because their agenda is purely innocent, coming from instinct or survival drives.
So i posit that a non-human entity that we would call evil must have its origins in the human race otherwise it wouldn't have an agenda involving us.
Even vampire bats don't look all that evil, if you google in image of them. But I think the concept of vampire bats has been built up to be evil because they can live on our blood. But they usually bite cows and other big animals, and when they do bite humans they usually don't kill us, so it's mostly legend. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Sep 17 2008 07:49:58 AM |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 11:15:35 AM
|
I mostly agree with Etherfish here. Mostly. The only thing I would add to this is that evil is merely a word with a definition. If "we" did not exist, could evil still exist? Just like the guy who wrote "Lila" (the sequel to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance) says....If there were only one human on the face of the planet could he/she be insane? Of couse not, because sanity is relative. Just like evil is relative. If there was noone there to experience "evil", "evil" could not exist. WE are the creators of evil, and the sustainers of evil. There is no "real" personified evil called Satan or the Devil, these are constructs of the human mind. If we were not here to witness the "evil" and percieve it as so, it would not be "evil". It would just BE. Just my 2 cents.
In Love,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 17 2008 11:27:58 AM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:21:06 PM
|
What I left out is the part of the legend that Satan is not one of us, but desires our souls to be trapped and serve him for eternity. I think this is added by the church to coerce us using fear.
The bible is about love and free will. Working against love has more immediate punishment that doesn't need to be saved for later.
If we truly have free will our entire life to choose between good or evil, then there can be no punishment for either choice.
In our legal system, a confession under duress is not considered a true confession. The reason for that is people are coerced under duress to make choices they would not otherwise make. Therefore, if we are to suffer eternal punishment for making the wrong choice, then there is no free will. So this concept is not congruent with the other teachings in the bible of love and forgiveness.
If you truly understand love, you would know that those who do not choose love do so because of misunderstanding, pain, mistreatment etc. So to characterize them as evil and reject them forever would not be a characteristic of a God of love.
In other words, one who knows all and sees all would know those supposed evil beings need to learn something they don't understand yet. The reason they have rejected the teachings is due to misunderstanding.
They need to be taught in a different way, and sometimes that takes much longer than the usual methods.
The very concept that certain beings are inherently evil and can never change is one of the cornerstones of evil thinking. You will find it in warlike people, racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, etc. You will notice that is is a concept applied to others who are different from yourself. |
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 10:11:41 PM
|
I heard satan in my head once. But then again, I do have schizzo tendencies. So if satan exists, obviously, he lives within me. I AM SATAN INCARNATE haha.
Nah, my belief is just that all said "evil" is just the seed for good. It's all just energy to be directed towards "higher truths". Energy to be transformed towards good. I don't think good is even the right word here. Good vs bad... like others said, the idea of good is what creates the idea of bad. Bad is a human creation. That whole duality thing, yin is yang, yang is yin.
For the "transforming" thing, I find it's sorta like how kundalini starts in the root, in it's ermm... what's the word. Like "bulk" form I guess, and gets further refined as it goes up through the chakras, and at the crown transforms into ultimate spiritual godly energy. Though it all starts in this supposed "evil material chakra" of ours. |
|
|
|
windh2o
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 12:30:07 AM
|
| You know what - I think there is a connection between "desire" and "evil" (etc) - do a Google search on Pankaj Mishra - he has a Podcast on I Tunes (Speaking of Faith series) regarding this connection. |
|
|
|
Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 11:36:52 AM
|
I don't know about there being a being of evil, or perhaps that's just an intuition of the destructive aspect of God (Galactus?). But, does evil exist? I used to think not. People who do evil things are just disturbed. But, I'm starting to think otherwise.
Can we look at an actual simple example. Someone takes an insect and pulls off their feet. In case A, it is to cook a meal. In case B, its an adult who is not cooking a meal. Case A is not evil since in certain cultures this is normal, just as normal as eating higher forms of animals. Case B is indeterminate, it could be a scientist preparing a specimen. Is there situation where case B could be considered evil?
I asked my young son. He said that if in case B its done for no reason, just for the fun of it, it is. (Is hunting for sport evil?) I agree with him. But, I don't think that having a 'reason' is an excuse. We know from history that anything can be rationalized.
Edit: or maybe evil is the lack of empathy?
|
Edited by - Jo-self on Sep 27 2008 11:49:11 AM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 12:05:31 AM
|
Yes, lack of empathy. It has to do with the intent of the action.
That's why we have the insanity plea in courts.
Of course one could argue that all criminals are insane. |
|
|
|
Dr. Love
Belgium
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 6:42:58 PM
|
fear, desire and hate are some of the tools "evil" uses to sustain itself.
when there is fear, desire or hate we are possessed by a demon...
that demon is the ego, and it is how it sustains itself.
it is desire which is the cause of the fall from grace,
and why we are no longer in the garden of eden (fall from enlightenment to unenlightenment)
from selflessness/being one with god/everything.
to being an individual self seperate from everything/god |
Edited by - Dr. Love on Oct 01 2008 7:10:46 PM |
|
|
|
Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 03:10:20 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Love
fear, desire and hate are some of the tools "evil" uses to sustain itself.
when there is fear, desire or hate we are possessed by a demon...
that demon is the ego, and it is how it sustains itself.
it is desire which is the cause of the fall from grace,
and why we are no longer in the garden of eden (fall from enlightenment to unenlightenment)
from selflessness/being one with god/everything.
to being an individual self seperate from everything/god
I want to chime in here:
"Fear" is not to be feared, fear can be useful - it warns me
and makes me aware to be careful.
"Desire" is a strong force, my desire is to make this world
a better world and I have desire to better myself - God help me
that I may not loose that desire.
"Hate" can be an even stronger force - I hate it when a helpless
child is beaten up and therefore want to act to protect it.
Sorry to disagree, but to say that when there is fear, desire or hate
should mean that we are possessed by a demon is in my opinion
not very helpful.
And trying to kill fear, desire or hate does not actually kill the demon.
my 2 cts
Wolfgang
|
|
|
|
Dr. Love
Belgium
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 07:44:09 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
"Fear" is not to be feared, fear can be useful - it warns me
and makes me aware to be careful.
"Desire" is a strong force, my desire is to make this world
a better world and I have desire to better myself - God help me
that I may not loose that desire.
"Hate" can be an even stronger force - I hate it when a helpless
child is beaten up and therefore want to act to protect it.
Sorry to disagree, but to say that when there is fear, desire or hate
should mean that we are possessed by a demon is in my opinion
not very helpful.
And trying to kill fear, desire or hate does not actually kill the demon.
well i didn't mean to be possessed by literally "a demon".
but the ego is a force which sustains itself by fearing, desiring..
to be for or against, wanting to have or wanting to push away.
this force lives inside human beings in different degrees without people realizing they
are in control of it... therefor they are controlled (or posessed) by it.
i do see the usefulness of those forces,
but taking their subjective realities as absolute... creates the experience of being the body/ego/person,
while the aim of Yoga is if i am not mistaken, to be liberated from that painful experience?
so i guess that they are relatively useful, but ultimately are meaningless...
and it is by seeing the ultimate meaninglessness of the world (perceived by the senses)
that one can be liberated from it.
so for minimizing one's own suffering, not giving any credibility to anything worldly is probably the best choice.
but if one wants to take care of his own body/ego and that of other living beings,
one cannot ignore those forces completely... and depends on them indeed to tell him what is relatively "good" and "bad",
in order to know which action he wants to take.
i think that yogic or meditative practice is kind of unnatural,
not only because the way animals and humans are born is to be completely identified with the body & to be the ego...
but also because Yogic a.k.a. Meditative Being is to be as dead as possible,
while staying alive in this world and operating in it? it's kind of contradictive...
being completely enlightened is not the most easy thing to do,
because it's completely against natural way of life.
i guess we do it because it makes us more happy.  |
Edited by - Dr. Love on Oct 02 2008 10:09:31 AM |
|
|
|
Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 09:49:11 AM
|
Hi Dr. Love,
thanks for your contribution to this topic, though we seem
to be drifting away from the original heading...
Anyway: for me the aim is not to see "the ultimate meaninglessness of the world"
I believe that life and the world do have meaning even if that
meaning is not always clear.
I also do not agree that the purpose of "Yogic a.k.a. Meditative Being is to be as dead as possible".
Those concepts sound to me to be very philosophic;
Nirwana, Maya (the world of illusion) have in my opinion been given too much weight
in the yogic traditions and may be it is time
to stress living in the world a bit more.
By the way, no offence is meant to your posts and your
contributions are welcome
Wolfgang |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 11:59:58 PM
|
Dr Love,
Welcome! I haven't written to you before.
No meditation is not to be as dead as possible. This relates directly to what you were saying about the ego sustaining itself. The ego tells you meditating is being dead because it kills the ego. Don't let it fool you.
What results from meditation is so much more alive but not from the ego's point of view.
The world is not meaningless, but it IS illusion. But the illusion has purpose and so is not meaningless.
If it were meaningless, it wouldn't matter if you die now or later, wouldn't matter what actions you take,
who you hurt, who you help etc.
These things matter a lot because we use the illusion to work through the illusion of separateness. Karma is the teaching tool. |
|
|
|
1cleverPretense
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 02:51:35 AM
|
greetings all,
Here's my take on this interesting topic..
First, in my view "evil" seems to be the harmful manifestations of the actions of beings possessing reasoning faculties (myself and most other humans included). Now the reason behind this/these action(s) begins to gnaw at me. In my experience I tend to believe it is due to simply ignorance. However, this is not to downgrade the pain experienced by those on the receiving end of the "evil" actions perpetrated (which shall ultimately end up affecting their source(s) as well). So why would a person(s) (or other intelligent beings) want to pursue this line of behavior, when ultimately they will be hurt as well?? This is what brought me to two conclusions: Either the "evil" being(s) have a major disruption in their faculties of reasoning (insanity/illness). Or s/he really believe(d) that the benefits of their action far outweigh the harm to him/her (delusion). For me this takes most of the hocus-pocus/judgementality out of the picture and provides a more developmental evolutionary one.
And the circle just expands from here..The view of seperateness (egoist) versus collectivity (spiritual) which to go into takes alot more time.
As a side note, "evil" seen as an impersonal force is one that I believe started within a sect of Zoroastrianism of ancient Persia (Iran) as the force opposite to Ahura Mazda (beneficial/Yin) which was named Ahriman or Angra Mainyu (destructive/Yang). Eventually I think it got incorporated into the Judaic system while the Israelites were in captivity in Babylon and the Persians in turn invaded them. I believe the hebrew term for it is Yetzer Harra (harmful inclination). Later came the Satan we are familiar with in the Christian/Islamic faiths. And no doubt these ideas have been greatly used by the religious establishments in coercing the views of humanity due our fear of the unknown and the hesitancy of trying to learn and understand for one's own self. Just FYI. Sorry for my long-windedness..
Be Well
sf
|
Edited by - 1cleverPretense on Oct 04 2008 10:23:10 PM |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
does satan/devil exist
