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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 8:36:43 PM
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was jesus enlightened and in christ consciouness before the cross? If he did not attain his state until after the crusifiction, he would have had a different understanding then he had before he went to the cross, yes? would he have been mad in the temple, or would the christ conscious jesus not spend his energies on speaking against some of the churches, but rather spent all of his time speaking of love?
I am love, I am peace, I am joy
I am neil |
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porcupine
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 9:26:56 PM
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Jesus probably would have said something like "Speak, and ye speaketh of love".
Jesus didn't seem to be trying to bully anybody into loving his way, except when he was, and everyone thought even that was okay, because he seemed to have did it out of love. |
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rho
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 9:43:52 PM
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| It is not my intention to be disrespectful, but I really doubt Jesus would have used 16th century English when he spoke. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 10:13:05 PM
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I personally think that Jesus was enlightened before the cross. Unelightened people don't usually walk on water and make the blind see. Generally
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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porcupine
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 02:29:27 AM
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Exactly! and Jesus, enlightened or not was by all accounts a pretty ahead of his timeless kind of guy. On account of all the biographies and reincarnations (imposters? hah!) and all. I'm sure he started all the 16th century English stuff way before squares like 16th Century Square #1 were first beginning to dig it. Jesus did not seem to care, "being fashionably early is part of it" Jesus will say any moment now...
Its part of propheting, methinks.
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 10:43:14 AM
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My conjectures:
I believe Jesus was an enlightened yogi before he died.
He was an ordinary man overtaken by determination of the state to get rid of him. I do not think he plotted his physical death as a tactic to wake people up in some spiritual sense.
I believe there were no literal physical miracles. He did not walk on water or turn water into wine.
It is too bad his teaching career got cut short, since if he had he lived out a full life, he could have impacted more people.
It is unfortunate he chose only male disciples. Unless he had discovered tantra masturbation and wanted to impart to men at least his personally experienced know-how.
I do not know what to make of other stories, like the "post-resurrection" appearances or the claimed Damascus Road experience of Paul.
All we think we know about the life of Jesus is what we have read in the new testament writings. These are historically dubious.
Christianity is mythic--pentacost in the upper room, the resurrection story, the virgin birth.
I speculate that some yogic teachings may be embedded in parables and occasional imagery scattered throughout the bible.
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Sep 11 2008 10:51:24 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 10:52:54 AM
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Hi Newpov,
quote:
It is unfortunate he chose only male disciples. Unless he had discovered tantra masturbation and wanted to impart to men at least his personally experienced know-how.
I thought Jesus had 2 female disciples: Mary and Martha?
quote:
It is too bad his teaching career got cut short, since if he had he lived out a full life, he could have impacted more people.
More than helf the world!? That would have been impressive. 
quote:
All we think we know about the life of Jesus is what we have read in the new testament writings. These are historically dubious.
Only a few of the writings about Jesus made it into the New Testament. There were many others around at the time that did not, but are still available today. Try and Google "Gnostic Gospels" or "Dead sea scrols" if you are interested. There are some very beautiful writings amongst them. A few weeks ago I was reading one of the dead sea scrolls which contains a description by Jesus of what it felt like at the moment he decided to take a new body (The one called Jesus Christ born to Mary). If I can find it again I'll post it up.
Christi
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 11:31:47 AM
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Good post Christi!
I would add to you Brian (newpov) that you should really check out two specific gospels that did not make it into the Bible. They are the Gospel of Thomas and the Book of Enoch. Both these books were excluded because they give a whole new perspective on Jesus and his teachings that didn't jive with the message the church wanted to put out. Highly recommended reading of you are interested.
In Love,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 11 2008 12:21:41 PM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2008 : 5:05:36 PM
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I think if he existed and most of the stuff is accurate, I say he was enlightened way before the cross. That he was in many ways "one of the dudes", or more so a people person, turning water into wine haha, this guy loved partying, was a people person, and thus spoke\acted appropiatly to teach the people of his time.
I mean if we compare him to Buddha, or the embodiement of Buddha within siddharta Gautama, that guy was so much more layed back and relaxed. He had his fix of partying in his early days, and sorta renounced that. He spoke differently, I say, cuz he basically left society for 6 years, and thus part of his personality was that really "grounded in the Self, screw society" sort of thing.
I mean, even Jesus's death was used as a tool. I'm not saying he planned it all out... just that... it happened, and he was forgiving, and that's beautiful. There was a certain grace to his death methinks.
"He died for all our sins"... I think people missinterpret that one a lot haha. I know if we let go to all attachments to this body and what not... we'll understand that one much better. There's only one kind of death to me. But hey, people see it how they're ready to, so it's all good. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 12:10:05 AM
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Is the question when did Jesus realize he is God?
Is that what enlightenment means to everyone? Or do you believe enlightenment is death of the ego? Or do you believe they are one and the same? The latter makes the most sense to me.
I don't understand all of the Bible but the red words resonate with me. |
Edited by - machart on Sep 12 2008 08:55:21 AM |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 5:14:16 PM
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I'm not sure one can really correlate "enlightenment" from one religion, culture, or tradition to another. And, especially, apply it to historical figures. No harm in doing so if it helps one understand things of course. One thing you will find is that "enlightenment" describes a spectrum of consciousness beyond the waking state. I remember a Hari Krishna member telling that Krishna Consciousness was higher then Brahman Consciousness. :) Likewise you'll find that some belive that Jesus was God, not an enlightened person.
Did Jesus teach something beside a prayer, parables, and his sacrifice? There are some indications that he did teach a yoga or some initiation other then a baptism, if some "hidden" gospels are true, example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret...pel_of_Mark.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2008 : 6:07:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
I think if he existed and most of the stuff is accurate, I say he was enlightened way before the cross. That he was in many ways "one of the dudes", or more so a people person, turning water into wine haha, this guy loved partying, was a people person, and thus spoke\acted appropiatly to teach the people of his time.
"I like to picture my jesus in a tuxedo tshirt because it says I'm formal but I also came here to party" from talledega nights
thanks for your responses, it looks like I got some stuff to read up on. One thing I am warry of is what I read because of the people who put it together and what their intentions are. Thanks for the books suggestions carson and christi
I am joy, I am love, I am peace
I am neil
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teachings of jesus
