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rho

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2008 :  02:23:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit rho's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello all. I recently started the I AM meditation and have been meditating twice daily without pranayama for almost a month. I am becoming more and more discouraged, though. I have not noticed much of a change in my meditation. My mind still wanders as much as it did when I first started. I'd guess that roughly half of each 20 minute session is spent daydreaming. I have, however, noticed that it is easier to calm my mind during the day, or at night when I am trying to sleep. My mind tends to race when I go to bed, and I often have a difficult time falling asleep because of it. I suppose my expectations were that I would notice more change within the first month. Am I doing something wrong? I have missed meditating about 3 or 4 times in the past month, generally in the mornings.

Edited by - rho on Sep 09 2008 12:33:42 AM

Christi

United Kingdom
4430 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2008 :  02:48:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rho,

You are not doing anything wrong. Just that your expectations were a bit high! It does take a while to settle into meditation so give it time. One good thing you have noticed is how much your mind wonders, so use that as inspiration to practice.

I am sure you will see a gradual improvement over the next few months, more stillness, less continual struggling with thoughts...


Good luck and welcome to the forum.


Christi
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2008 :  08:43:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rho,

I think you are doing quite well if you are only day dreaming 50% of the time! My meditation did not start to settle down until my sitting was comfortable...I was always thinking my back hurts, my knees ache, etc. If you do a little hatha before sitting it really helps you to forget your body if you have any issues like I did.

WELCOME!
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2008 :  10:10:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
maybe the sooner you let go of thoughts the deeper you go? if you are expecting you have a picture of where you are going, where you go will be different then you picture it, unless you have a psychic vision If you get upset at your daydreaming then you will add more mental chatter. You daydream, so what, just go back to the mantra. judging how good or bad a session was may create expectations, yesterday was good, today should be good but it wasnt............ etc...
imo, the less judgement the faster and deeper you may go. I am not you, (but then again I am ) so follow your heart

my best to you
Neil
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mahabaratara

United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - Sep 03 2008 :  6:22:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit mahabaratara's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hang in there its only been just under a month for me but I have elected to do the mantra the meditation and the lotus seating position twice daily until I am comfortable with it...

Again I find that sometimes its easier than not and other times I see "signs" or feel progress...

I find it difficult too but in my humble opinion ths rewards outweigh anything else...

Pranayama is a very long way off yet!

I have changed a person too...

For the better...

My regards Maha

Edited by - mahabaratara on Sep 03 2008 7:08:03 PM
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2008 :  03:12:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rho,

Don't worry. The silencing of the mind may take many, many years. But the effects of meditation is not to be measured by the quality of the sessions. They are to be measured by the changes that occur outside of practices, during your daily life! The quality of practices will alter all the time. There will be more silent periods, more mindy periods, more calm, restless, comfortable, uncomfortable, nice, not so nice, wonderful, awful etc etc meditation sessions! They will change. None of them will be the same ever.

I have meditated a couple of years, and my mind and thoughts are still very active! The difference is... I don't care so much anylonger. The stillness is in the foreground, the mind is in the background!

quote:
You need not stop thinking. Just cease being interested. It is disinterestedness that liberates. Don't hold on, that is all.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

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yogibear

409 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2008 :  09:17:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rho and welcome to the forum!

If I might suggest, don't focus on your missing meditation. It doesn't help you. Focus on all the times you did practice, your successes. Just meditate when the next time comes up. Just keep applying a gentle pressure in the direction you want to go. You will get there if you just persist.

And take your time. You have all the time in the world. In 5 years you can check and then your progress will be apparent. Probably sooner, but take the long range view.

Use aspirational goals and time horizons and adapt to conditions on the ground. If you use rigid time lines and think something other than what you are actually experiencing (conditions on the ground)should be happening by a set time limit, you will be disappointed and fail. No need for that.

No "shoulds" and no "have tos."

No "this should be happening now" or "I should have this degree of inner silence by now" or "I have to meditate 2x/day." None of that.

Meditation is a life style, not a quick fix. It is not McYoga. You can't just drive up to the window for an instant order of inner silence and a side of ecstatic conductivity. It takes regular practice.

But it is easy. Everything is "easy does it" with AYP. It is all "steady as she goes."

Signs of progress will be apparent all in due time.

So take it easy and enjoy the journey. My mind wanders all the time and I could care less. I just return to the mantra when I notice it. Meditation is not a stressful activity.

Hope that helps a little.

I wish you much success, yb.

Edited by - yogibear on Sep 04 2008 5:18:37 PM
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newpov

USA
183 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2008 :  11:25:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit newpov's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
yb,

thank you for a beautiful posting. your perspective could do me good.

newpov
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yogibear

409 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2008 :  5:14:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi newpov,

Thank you. Glad you find it useful. It took me almost 4 decades since my first exposure to Yoga to "get it." Yogani's writings were a big help in putting it all together. Wish I had spent that time as wisely as Yogani, but I wasted alot of it. I've been kind of a backward student and a goof off.

Now I finally have the perspective that will enable me to sustain long term regular practice and achieve the promised benefits of meditation. Hope my experience can shorten the learning curve and save some trouble for others.

Best, yb.
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HathaTeacher

Sweden
382 Posts

Posted - Sep 05 2008 :  09:27:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by emc

Hi Rho,

Don't worry. The silencing of the mind may take many, many years. But the effects of meditation is not to be measured by the quality of the sessions. They are to be measured by the changes that occur outside of practices, during your daily life! The quality of practices will alter all the time. There will be more silent periods, more mindy periods, more calm, restless, comfortable, uncomfortable, nice, not so nice, wonderful, awful etc etc meditation sessions! They will change. None of them will be the same ever.

I have meditated a couple of years, and my mind and thoughts are still very active! The difference is... I don't care so much anylonger. The stillness is in the foreground, the mind is in the background!

quote:
You need not stop thinking. Just cease being interested. It is disinterestedness that liberates. Don't hold on, that is all.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj





Hi emc! That's it. If you feel a little more ballanced between the sessions, you're on track - no matter any disturbing thoughts during meditation.
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rho

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 05 2008 :  11:14:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit rho's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the replies! I actually have noticed a subtle change in the way I feel throughout the day. I wouldn't say that it has been major, but I do notice a difference. I feel calmer and less scattered or anxious. I will try to focus on the journey, rather than on the destination.

Edited by - rho on Sep 06 2008 1:43:07 PM
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brushjw

USA
191 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2008 :  3:29:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit brushjw's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My first meditation teacher told me that "meditation teaches us to be kind to ourselves."

namaste,
Joe
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rho

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2008 :  12:45:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit rho's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Is it normal for tears to stream down my face while I meditate? This happens sometimes, without emotion. I feel normal, just with tears. Also, I feel pressure at my brow chakra while I meditate. I've been having REALLY bad, randomly occurring headaches over the past couple weeks, with the pain being centered near my forehead or eyes. I'm wondering if the two might be related. I've been feeling a little sick lately, so the headaches could be a symptom of a flu or cold.

Finally, when I'm lying in bed at night, I sometimes feel a pressure in my solar plexus chakra or my sacral chakra. It's a really weird, strong feeling, like they're doing backflips or something. Any ideas what this means?
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Sheila

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2008 :  2:16:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rho. About the forehead/brow/eyes pain, I wonder if it could be due to straining during sambhavi. I too have started to get these (I feel these as a headache centered around my third eye) and think this is related to furrowing of brow and attempts to concentrate during sambhavi in SB.
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rho

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2008 :  8:48:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit rho's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
What is sambhavi? I have only read up to lesson 45. Also, what is SB?
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2008 :  08:09:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by rho

What is sambhavi? I have only read up to lesson 45. Also, what is SB?



Welcome to the forum Rho.

Lesson 56 - Sambhavi – Opening the third eye
quote:
So, what we will do now is stimulate the spinal nerve as it comes to the point between the eyebrows. This stimulation is called, “sambhavi.” We will do this during our regular pranayama session at the same time we are doing everything else that has been given. Be sure you are stable in your pranayama practice as you consider taking on sambhavi. Things may still be a bit hectic with mulabandha. It is okay to introduce sambhavi with sexual energy bouncing around in the lower regions, as sambhavi will help bring sexual energy up higher where it will become more stable. Sambhavi and mulabandha work together that way – stimulating and stabilizing sexual energy traveling up and down the spinal nerve during spinal breathing.

There are two main components to sambhavi. First is a gentle furrowing of the brow, the point between the eyebrows. It is bringing the two eyebrows slightly toward the center. This is barely physical, mostly just an intention. It is only physical enough to allow feedback for a habit to form. Under normal circumstances it will not be visible to an outside observer. Maybe only a little in the beginning stage. With practice, you will find that this is really an internal movement reaching back into the center of your brain, pulling the center of your brain forward toward the point between the eyebrows. We begin this internal activity with the brow-furrowing impulse just described. It will evolve naturally after that, as ecstatic conductivity arises. You will feel it working inside your head.

The second component of sambhavi is a physical raising of the eyes toward the point where the furrowing is happening at the point between the eyebrows. The sensation of furrowing at the point between the eyebrows is where the eyes will go. This will involve some raising and some centering of the eyes. We keep the eyes comfortably closed as we do it. We don’t force the eyes. In the beginning, they may not go as far up as we would like. That is okay. Do not force them. Just let them gravitate naturally toward the sensation of furrowing at the point between the eyebrows. Again, it is a subtle physical habit we want to cultivate. Once the habit in place, the attention is free for spinal breathing. All of pranayama is physical habit, except for the attention going very simply up and down the spinal nerve with the breath. As we become adept at it, everything will be happening automatically, with our attention completely free to be easily going up and down inside the spinal nerve, which will be transforming before our inner sight.

As we do these two things simultaneously, the slight furrowing of the center of the brow and the raising and centering of the eyes to that point between the eyebrows, we continue all the other elements of pranayama just as before. It should be pointed out that as the attention goes up and down in the spinal nerve with the breath, the eyes remain aimed up toward the point between the eyebrows. We are not looking through our eyes with our attention. Our attention is going up and down in the spinal nerve. We do not try and look at the point between the eyebrows with the attention through the physical eyes. The eyes are physically going there, but our attention is going up and down in the spinal nerve. In fact, our physical eyes aren’t doing anything other than muscular. When they are going up to the point between the eyebrows, the eyes are physically stimulating the spinal nerve all the way back through the brain and all the way down through the spine to the perineum. We are using our eyes in a physical way to awaken the spinal nerve. Meanwhile, our vision (attention) is in and through the spinal nerve, easily going up and down inside. It is a new kind of seeing we are beginning, an inner seeing.



SP is Spinal Breathing pranayam.
Lesson 41 - Pranayama – Spinal Breathing
quote:
Sit comfortably with back support, and close your eyes just as you do
when you meditate. Now, keeping your mouth closed, breathe in and out
slowly and deeply through your nose, but not to the extreme. Be
relaxed and easy about it, breathing as slowly and deeply as possible
without discomfort. There is no need to be heroic. Work your muscles
so each breath begins in your belly and fills you up through your
chest to the top of your collarbones, and then comes back down
slowly. Next, with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your
attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you
visualize beginning at your perineum, continuing up through the
center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the
center of your head. At the center of your head the tiny nerve makes
a turn forward to the point between your eyebrows. With one slow,
deep inhalation let your attention travel gradually inside the nerve
from the perineum all the way to the point between the eyebrows. As
you exhale, retrace this path from the point between the eyebrows all
the way back down to the perineum. Then, come back up to the point
between the eyebrows with the next inhalation, and down to the
perineum with the next exhalation, and so on.

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rho

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2008 :  11:16:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit rho's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!
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Sheila

USA
17 Posts

Posted - Sep 14 2008 :  12:22:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Rho - sorry.
Shanti - thank you for the clarification.
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Christi

United Kingdom
4430 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2008 :  06:46:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Is it normal for tears to stream down my face while I meditate? This happens sometimes, without emotion. I feel normal, just with tears. Also, I feel pressure at my brow chakra while I meditate. I've been having REALLY bad, randomly occurring headaches over the past couple weeks, with the pain being centered near my forehead or eyes. I'm wondering if the two might be related. I've been feeling a little sick lately, so the headaches could be a symptom of a flu or cold.

Finally, when I'm lying in bed at night, I sometimes feel a pressure in my solar plexus chakra or my sacral chakra. It's a really weird, strong feeling, like they're doing backflips or something. Any ideas what this means?


Hi Roh,

Welcome to the forum.

It is possible for tears to pour during meditation, and it can be accompanied by feelings of great sorrow, or great joy, or by no particular emotion at all. Changes happen in the body and there are numerous symptoms that can manifest.
If you are experiencing pressure at your brow chakra during practices, then there is a good chance that this is connected to the headaches. If you are in doubt, then self-pace accordingly (cut back on practice times) to see if that helps.

When chakras are activating they begin to spin, and this can feel like something is doing a sumersault inside you. Nothing to worry about.

Christi
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Suryakant

USA
259 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2008 :  12:22:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by rho

Is it normal for tears to stream down my face while I meditate? This happens sometimes, without emotion. I feel normal, just with tears.
Hi rho,

The experience of tears streaming down one's face is a perfectly normal experience during meditation - it happened to me during shaktipat and during meditation for years after shaktipat.

Namaste,
Suryakant
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