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Rattan
South Africa
41 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 04:20:19 AM
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Something that I seem not to be able to understand. Very simply put -I read here and elsewhere that our suffering gets created by our own minds that conjures up the stories that creates the pain. That cultivating inner stillness, and effective self-inquiry will let you see the absurdity of your mind created stuff, and in this way end your suffering.
Now, the one thing that is most painful to me presently, is the FACT of my son's schizophrenia. Having to see him so ill, so changed, and having to deal with him day in and day out, does not seem to be something I have created in my own mind. I am not able to understand how self-inquiry. "Is it true?" can rid me of this pain.
I must be looking at the problem wrongly. Does anybody have any insights please?
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 10:13:43 AM
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Hi Rattan,
Self-inquiry based on your inner silence gained from deep meditation will help you to see and understand the process of identification. This identification is the cause of suffering. Through this process, we become identified with our bodies, ideas, our perception of the world. By this process pain becomes suffering.
As inner silence increases it will become possible to release your suffering into stillness where it will eventually disappear or it will be seen simply as emotional pain. But there will be no identification, which means that you will only notice the pain, but you won't be the pain - you won't suffer. Later, even the emotional pain itself will disappear.
If you're currently not able to deal with pain in this way, there's no better way than to meditate regularly. It will help you to see things for what they are, without suffering and therefore you'll be able to deal with the facts of life more lovingly, flexibly and without the emotional fuss. The illness is not something you've created in you mind, but the emotions, your perception of the situation and everything else that you attribute to it are something that can gradually be changed, released into stillness and seen through.
All the best in your situation. Take heart. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 12:05:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rattan
Something that I seem not to be able to understand. Very simply put -I read here and elsewhere that our suffering gets created by our own minds that conjures up the stories that creates the pain. That cultivating inner stillness, and effective self-inquiry will let you see the absurdity of your mind created stuff, and in this way end your suffering.
Hi Rattan and welcome to the forum,
This is a great summary of the process.
quote:
Now, the one thing that is most painful to me presently, is the FACT of my son's schizophrenia. Having to see him so ill, so changed, and having to deal with him day in and day out, does not seem to be something I have created in my own mind. I am not able to understand how self-inquiry. "Is it true?" can rid me of this pain.
I must be looking at the problem wrongly. Does anybody have any insights please?
There are a lot of ways you can look at your son's schizophrenia. How you feel about the situation is a matter of your perspective. So rather than question the "fact" of your son's schizophrenia, you would likely want to start with why you feel it is painful? This is where I would start the inquiry.
As your words describe above, our minds conjure up stories of the events and circumstances in our life, is it possible you are doing this very thing in regards to your son? Are you painting a "negative" and painful story of what it means for him to have schizophrenia? Is it possible you are creating a negative and painful story of what it means for you to have to observe these changes in him?
You can look at his situation any way you choose. When you choose to see it as something horrible for you and for him, no wonder you suffer and have pain. So in other words, is it true you have to see him "as so ill"? Having to deal with him day in and day out, is it true this is something exclusively negative? Could it be a privilege to care for him, something that can make you grow and him grow?
How lucky your son is to have someone so self-aware around to help him through this difficult time.
As Tadeas points out, regular daily deep mediation as described in the AYP Main lessons found at the top of the page, can certainly help us end our suffering in time and to see these situations as they really are.
Best of luck! |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 6:13:13 PM
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hello rattan,
in my family we have had many people with struggles, on my moms side my grandma was labeled schizophranic, my uncle has been in the special place a few times, etc.... at one point in my life I became concerned cause I did not want to be like them. I quit drinking at a very early age, I was in an achoholic state for less then half a year before I realized I was repeating the patter of addiction/abuse that my mom and her siblings had all done. I have some thoughts that I would like to share with you, could you please tell us a little more about your son, you have told us his label. I am a teacher and I teach what they label "autistic" children. To me that label means nothing as I teach just the child. Does your son see things, believe in alians, hear voices, etc......
my best to you
Neil
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 01:09:50 AM
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One huge struggle in my life has been sympathy vs empathy. There's different ways to define these, but in this context, think of sympathy as: seeing some guy vomitting at the edge of a boat, and going right beside him, and puking along with him, empathy is moreso, knowing what it feels like to be vomitting, and thus handing him a towel to wash his face, a nice pat on the back, just being there for him :). I think we all know what it means to have a distressed mind, though the degree is a bit different with being schizophrenic, I can't deny that. We all know love though, simply being there when people are hurting.
I'm a little schizzo myself, I just hear voices... and there's absolutly nothing I can do about it. I mean, I could medicate, though I don't want to really change my brain chemistry. Meditation has been great for balancing things out. Its been a huge help. Love and laughter just as good for combating illusion :).
Honestly, I suggest you just be there for your son. It's a really weird disease to understand, and too much info, can be a little scary. Honest communication with your son is I reckon a bit better than loading yourself with tons of info on schizophrenia (i'm not saying don't, but there can be a point where you just become paranoid about what's actually going on).
If he hasn't seen someone about his problem, I definitely suggest he does, that he checks if medication and what not is needed, but I don't believe there's much more one can do.
Teaching him to meditate might help too, though it can be very scary to go within when your mind is so out of order. If he does, definetly ease him into the practice, maybe a couple minutes at first. Teach him about abiding in the "watcher", about allowing and letting go, knowing you're not so much your mind, but the one that watches. Getting in your body is definetly a huge help too. To simply bring some body awareness when your mind is way out of whack. You basically just treat the mind stuff as scenery, as you bring your focus towards your breath, or to any tension in the body.
And there will be tension, there will be frustrations, that's for sure, and it's ok. It's a really scary disease. Sometimes crying is good, sometimes just yelling or punching a pillow or whatever... it can be healthy to let out frustrations. Just be honest with your feelings, don't try and force any certain outlook on the problem. Problems are really just gifts for us to overcome, ego has its own beauty... the world would be pretty dull without it. I know it doesn't always seem that way, but trust me :). I have much love for you in doing your best in helping out your son, I'm actually crying here right now man, I've known this situation way too well. My parents have been great... my mom a bit paranoid at times, but I appreciate her being there :).
Namaste my dear friend :). |
Edited by - Divineis on Aug 13 2008 01:45:23 AM |
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Rattan
South Africa
41 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 03:48:36 AM
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I am in awe of all you people on the forum, the wisdom and experience you share so freely.
Anthem11 has suggested that I look at the positive side of my son's illness, and I can definitely say that it has been one of the reasons for my starting to search, falling in love with Tantra, and after a few detours, eventually finding Yogani's writings. And I have been practicing the AYP way since almost the beginning of this year.
tubeseeker, you want some more background on the illness. Actually he has Schizoaffective disorder. He is currently again in a mental hospital for the fourth time in two years. Now after 9 months, there again, having spent more that 5 months there the previous time. The doctors struggle to get his psychosis under control with their drugs. He becomes psychotic , losing all touch with reality. And having a lot of symptoms, hearing voices, thinking he is Jesus, building elaborate abstract things in his mind, having conversations with people he sees as real, but are only in his imagination. And then when he starts to become psychotic, getting very paranoid and antagonistic towards his parents. One little thing is that he has been absolutely adamant not to cut his hair and beard, or wash his hair, now for about 18 months. So he also looks like a mental patient. He does not believe he is ill, so stops taking his medicine every time, and ends up in hospital every time. The last two times, involuntary. We had to ask the help of the police to find him and take him to hospital. Once they found him after two weeks, far from home, wandering around without any clothes on. We struggle to make contact with him, even when he is on medication, and not psychotic.
We feel as if we have lost our son, but if he had died, we could go through the mourning process, and move on. Here it is as if he has died, because the son we now have is not the same one as previously. But we can not finish mourning.
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Edited by - Rattan on Aug 13 2008 03:57:33 AM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 5:12:29 PM
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Rattan, my heart goes out to you. I do have some suggestions but I am not there in person so it is much more difficult to imagine. when I am with my students in my class the one thing I do is try and let them be themselves. They have certain behaviors that I do not try and stop. I also make it a point to not take their behaviour personally. for instance if a person steals from you, you think "how dare they take something from me" that is taking it personally. If on the other hand you stop and realize "that person has piked up this habit and it is their way of life. Now they have taken something from me and I understand that this action is not a personal attack on me but rather the way this person lives their life. I am still going to call the police, I am still frustrasted about my loss, but I do understand this was not something personal".
If I go to do something with a child and they get vioulent, I do not get mad at them for this, I accept it, protect myself, and make the best of the situation.
now to your son, he does not want to cut his hair, so what. The sikh religion/spiritual group is the same way. Some people believe it is a tool for greater sensory perception of the world. There has been many cultures that this would be acceptable but you have it ingrained, as do his doctors and others, that one must look profesional or something of the such but he wants his hair to grow. why does it bother you so much? would you be scared to be seen with him looking like this? As far as washing it I am sure there are some cultures that dont wash their hair, if there are past lives maybe he is from such a culture. Howeever I do think being clean is a good trait to have so to me the dirty hair would be my concern over cutting it.
The voices in his head, well they manifest somewhere, I ask you this, can you tell me for sure that they are not real? can you tell me exactly what dimensions we have in this world of ours? I am not saying I believe or dont believe in the voices some people claim to hear, I just beleive the world has multiple possibilities. I teach students who act out all kinds of things. WHen it is time for them to focus on what I want them to focus, they generally do well, after that I let them have their free time and if it is acting like spiderman and throwing punches in the air to images I dont see I dont care as long as they dont harm anyone in my class. SOmeitmes I play with them in doing what they do, maybe this helps them to feel more accepted.
In the three years I have been teaching I have had 7 kids in my class each year. I have been told by the principal that he sees me like the horse whisperer to these children and teachig them is my natural gift. I have had at least two kids every year make gains that were huge, with most of the kids that made big strides I have just scratched my head and wonder why it is so hard for some people to help these kids. A child came in last year and they told me that we would have at least one attack from her, she has had one or more every year she has been in school. I told them I did not believe we would have that problem. All I did was give her her own space and not try to force her to do what I wanted. by the end of the year she was doing great. Why? because I did not force things upon her and on some level she sensed that I was accepting of her. There are other behaviors, like self abusive behaviors, that we completely eliminated in my class through no use of force. These self abusive behaviors in two kids in particular where there for over the last 7 years.
some people have asked me how I get results with very little effort. well I have to cause I am lazy ;) but seriously. My first rule is never take anything personally. Second is I dont try to use too much force, if a river is flowing downstream build and damn and it may hold for a while but eventually break and the flooding is worse then before, by digging another route you can alter the flow. instead of use force I try to find another route because I know force does not work very well. third, each one of the students has something to teach me, what is it, what do they know that I dont. Everyone knows something you dont. fourth, if you ever think you will come down to their level to relate with them, they will feel it on an emotional level and resist. Their level is parallel to yours. but you cant just think that, you have to believe that.
in some cultures your son would be accepted, nakedness and all. many people may just say "he is crazy" and leave him alone while some people would ask if he need food, feed him, then leave him alone. in our current world we are not very accepting of people who are different because it may scare us for then we would have to question ourselves. He could be in tune with a part of this thing we call reality at a level you dont understand, or maybe it is made up in his head. I dont know for sure, do you?
just thoughts and thanks for sharing
Neil
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 5:15:39 PM
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| PS, watch in the movie "patch adams" where robbin williams goes into the mental ward, watch how he brings light. also watch "rain man" with tom cruise and dustin hoffman how tom cruise goes through a transformation and THEN dustin hoffman becomes more reeptive to him. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 6:06:39 PM
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hmm, I've got another story, sorta like tubeseekers. I was at my work one day, and there was some parents with a baby there. I think it was literally the ugliest baby I've ever seen. I reckon most people that looked at that baby couldn't see through the exterior... that baby was probably in a serious lack of true honest love.
And at first, that's all I saw, this ugly baby. But I kept on gazing, and the baby looked back at me, and I saw what most don't allow to see, I saw his beauty within, the kind we all have, no matter how we look or behave on the outside. Sometimes, even when people seem to be deeply troubled, love really does transcend all. The mind may continue to be troubled, but when people have known themselves as love, as the divine, even through the deepest hardships, there's something there that can't ever be lost.
And I just gave an honest smile to that baby, and the baby smiled back. It's so simple yet so miraculous, the miracle of true honest love. I can't own that though, I can only share it ;). |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 10:44:50 PM
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Great Posts Here
Rattan, as a parent whenever our children are ill, we become worried, ill, guilty, our ego shows up so huge.
Our children are our branches. The toughest part of my journey is being able to "simply witness" when it concerns my children.
I do believe that whatever happens to us here in the physical plane is a contract we made for ourselves prior to arriving.
I agree with everybody's posts, and I want to give you a website that has helped me out personally aside from this awesome forum.
http://www.ecomall.com/gopikrishna/
I had many health issues from a young age.At one point I knew I had to lie about hearing voices, because here in the western culture we rely on doctors who just prescribe medicines after medicines (which made me worse)Rather than the eastern culture where spirituality may come into play.
With your son's health issues I believe perhaps that your son is not ill, and perhaps he is dealing with a major sensory overload, and doesnt know what to do with it all and it will drive a person insane.
I see "things" I hear things, I feel what others feel, and when in conversation with someone in person, I most of the time know what they are going to say.... I was able to do this most of my life...but I didnt know it, I went to doctor after doctor, I was scared to death, my parents weren't educated in any spiritual realms, so after 35 years I am finally figuring it out and getting stronger and healthier by the day.
God bless you and welcome!
Live in Love
Nancy |
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A question about self-inquiry
