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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 05 2008 : 8:39:56 PM
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David,
if a medicl chrisis occurs there is plenty of information out there on how to handle it yourself. As I previously mentioned I have not had to use any type of medication other then herbal, for anything in the last ten plus years. I have also used fasting and breathing practices. A few times I had family members telling me to go to the doctors, especially when I had stuff dripping out my ear, I endured the pain and stayed orgainic, and after a time it was gone. So when something occurs that modern medicine has no answer for, I recommend that if you have lost your appetite then fast, learn how to do breathing practices, and figure out which postures can help as well. Also, isnt the yogis some of the people who have lived the longest, so why not seek them instead of modern medicine?
on the journey
Neil
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 09:53:19 AM
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Neil, I am all for letting the body's natural healing processes do their work, which makes me very much the opposite of a pill-popper. But for certain things I certainly would take medical treatment. It depends on a number of factors. I would have had a doctor look at an ear infection for example. Anti-biotics are over-used, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't use them. Natural remedies and modern medical remedies don't have to be either-or.
Regards,
-D |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 11:53:24 AM
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thanks for taking the time to respond dave. One of the things I am working on is judging less, your responses on this topic helps me to see things in a different light and hopefully I will be more accepting because of it.
my best to you
neil
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 1:25:39 PM
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Hi David and Tube,
There are a few mistaken notions that have been implanted in us humans which have set us up for some problems:
1) Health comes in a bottle.
2) It is somebody elses job to pay for it.
3) The solution to diseases caused by lifestyle is a pill.
The pharmaceutical companies would like nothing better than the entire population taking multiple drugs. The more pills the better.
My position is the less pills the better. You would be crazy to say they aren't useful or necessary in some situations.
But thru ignorance or downright refusal to follow the simple rules of healthy living, people create situations where they will die sooner or later if they don't take pills. High blood pressure, high blood sugar, high cholesterol pills all give the illusion of health but really it is just less health and less symptoms, not more health and less symptoms. If you doubt this just take away the pills from these people.
There is nothing wrong with harnessing natural law and putting it to intelligent use for the betterment of humankind.
I am with you, David. Take what is useful and use it, with in reason.
However, the use of technology for the benefit of humans seems to have turned into corporate facism and educated idiocy.
As long as big drug and big food are in control, we will only go further in this direction.
It seems possible we are in for a major reality check one of these days, Tube. Whether it is the form of some type of epidemic or something else or nothing at all remains to be seen.
But it is speculation. It is the imaginary future for right now.
I hadn't heard about 2012 until this thread. Or maybe I did. Isn't it the basis of the new Indiana Jones movie?
Best, yb. |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 6:20:47 PM
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quote:
the use of technology for the benefit of humans seems to have turned into corporate facism and educated idiocy...
has been since for decades... |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 10:25:04 PM
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Thanks Neil,
-D |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 08:08:01 AM
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Hi Mahabaratara,
quote:
has been since for decades...
Maybe so, but I guess what I mean is that it seems like it is reaching a breaking point.
There is so much stress in the system that I wonder how much further it can go with out some kind of major pressure release.
But maybe things will just ease back to the center, too.
I am very curious about how things will progress.
It is interesting times, right now. Many amazing situations and relationships going on. It seems like everything is amplified. It just seems different.
Best, yb. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 9:41:15 PM
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Yes, the increase in spiritual energy is causing this to happen in many systems. The medico-industrial complex; the military-industrial complex, the banking complex, all pushed to the limit, and in the US amplified by the government being financially corrupt and successfully hiding it from most people for almost 80 years. (I have authoritative proof but that's another story) Once we took the dollar off the gold standard, we propped it up with the oil standard, but we don't control oil anymore, and people are deciding they don't want to prop up the dollar. The US has extracted a tax on the world by devaluing the dollar after borrowing trillions. But it is backfiring on the people.
All of this building up at once, and most people don't know what's happening.
Just like the medical establishment you talk about. People live a bad lifestyle. The doctor tells them to eat less meat and fat, more vegetables, exercise more, drink more water. People don't listen. The doctor has no choice but to give them a pill to alleviate symptoms. This snowballs into 25 pills for 25 symptoms, some of them caused by other pills. Most people still don't listen to the doctors original instructions that would have saved them.
I have a friend who has fibromyalgia. The doctor prescribed 25 pills and morphine patches. Her kidneys and liver started to fail, she got all kinds of bowel problems, etc. She told the doctor she wasn't going to take any of the 25 pills anymore. now she just takes morphine for the pain, and is much better off! She has a huge case file telling how beligerent she is refusing to take the drugs. This just covers the doctors butt in case of a malpractice suit. He has to do what the AMA recommends, who is beholden to drug companies. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 08:43:06 AM
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Yes, etherfish, I used to get frustrated with this.
I finally realized that there is a large group of people who like to frequent certain sensory fields (The soda pop and chip aisles in the supermarket for example) And there is no stopping them. They are attracted to a certain type of scenery and have their karma as a result. They have a symbiotic relationship with their MD.
It is a particular slice of life.
At the moment, looking at it this way reminds me of a biology class and studying the different levels of relationships and types of interaction between animal species in an ecosystem, a pond for example. Amoebas, tadpoles and all that. I guess it is sociology.
They share a common belief system and act accordingly, based on that. You can successfully argue that corporate America has created this situation. But even they are just a thread woven into the great tapestry of life. Maybe there actually are some aliens who are really pulling the strings on this little orb.
On the other hand, both patient and MD have bought into this and share responsibility.
The MD could always say, "Sorry, I am not going to give you a pill. The absense of pills in your body is not the cause of your problem and it is not the cure either."
He could go back to school, become a naturopath or chiropractor or some other type of healer, and walk away from or change their relationship to the whole mess. They do have that choice.
And the patient could actually change their lifestyle. They have that choice, too. Come to think of it, This would be analagous to the planet easing back from some major pressure release.
My mailman disappeared for about 6 months. I wondered and wondered what happened to him. Then one day he was back and I almost didn't recognize him. I said, " Hal is that you?" He said, "Yes. I had a heart attack, gave smoking and drinking and crummy food and I am all the better for it."
Often enough, people need to have a heart attack or a major scare of some type before they will get serious. This would be analagous to the planet having a major pressure release.
Hope it is not necessary.
Best, yb. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 4:14:01 PM
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He could go back to school, become a naturopath or chiropractor or some other type of healer, and walk away from or change their relationship to the whole mess. They do have that choice.
To say a word in defense of the medical establishment, the doctor has other choices -- he/she can simply decide to prescribe intelligently. And what constitutes prescribing only intelligently is open to some interpretation, and not all agree. It does get a little complex....
I think in the culture of various forms of natural healing, there is an ubiquitous sectarian attitude which tends to demonize the medical establishment. Sometimes the picture seems to be as if all or most patients are incorrigible pill-poppers and doctors their money-grubbing enablers. Patient as junkie, doctor as small-time drug-dealer, pharmaceutical companies as bit-time drug cartels.  A picture like that is easily obtained by simply looking at the worst that one can see, and ignoring the best. I don't think the picture I'm describing is fair or truthful.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 08 2008 4:15:31 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 7:04:31 PM
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Yes, I worked in the medical field for a little while. The doctors were all doing the best they could to help people. I do believe that most of the time people take too many drugs because the doctor has suggested a better lifestyle, and they won't listen. So each pill is a last resort.
There are often alternative therapies that would be much more effective than the pills. But the doctors don't know about them. There is way too much information out there, and they read all the time, but are required to follow certain protocols by the AMA to protect their career.
The AMA is often beholden to drug companies, but they don't know it either. The drug companies have done all the tests and research. They are the ones who skew the research by ending tests that don't look good.
But i don't think often the researcher knows they are doing that either.
So there is ignorance spread around everywhere.
I think it is getting better on the average, but since there is big money in pharmaceuticals, that's where the research gets done. That's what causes drugs to be seen as a solution.
There is no money to be made in free or easily obtainable cures. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 12:50:09 AM
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Hi Ether and David,
quote:
David wrote:
To say a word in defense of the medical establishment, the doctor has other choices -- he/she can simply decide to prescribe intelligently. And what constitutes prescribing only intelligently is open to some interpretation, and not all agree. It does get a little complex....
Intelligent prescibing could mean prescribing nothing at all. Or prescibing diet and exercise changes. Or, of course, drugs.
The doctor could do something like Andrew Weil, M.D.
He could study natural medicine or ayurveda and the like.
quote:
I think in the culture of various forms of natural healing, there is an ubiquitous sectarian attitude which tends to demonize the medical establishment. Sometimes the picture seems to be as if all or most patients are incorrigible pill-poppers and doctors their money-grubbing enablers. Patient as junkie, doctor as small-time drug-dealer, pharmaceutical companies as bit-time drug cartels.
This is a very accurate encapsulation of a very prevalent point of view in the natural healthcare field.
quote:
A picture like that is easily obtained by simply looking at the worst that one can see, and ignoring the best. I don't think the picture I'm describing is fair or truthful.
I think it is at least part fair and and part true.
quote:
Etherfish wrote:
Yes, I worked in the medical field for a little while. The doctors were all doing the best they could to help people.
Within the confines of their belief system.
quote:
I do believe that most of the time people take too many drugs because the doctor has suggested a better lifestyle, and they won't listen. So each pill is a last resort. There are often alternative therapies that would be much more effective than the pills. But the doctors don't know about them. There is way too much information out there, and they read all the time, but are required to follow certain protocols by the AMA to protect their career. The AMA is often beholden to drug companies, but they don't know it either. The drug companies have done all the tests and research. They are the ones who skew the research by ending tests that don't look good. But i don't think often the researcher knows they are doing that either. So there is ignorance spread around everywhere. I think it is getting better on the average, but since there is big money in pharmaceuticals, that's where the research gets done. That's what causes drugs to be seen as a solution. There is no money to be made in free or easily obtainable cures.
Follow the money. It sounds like an awful lot of buck passing. This is the mess I am refering to. Just throw managed care into the mix.
Best, yb. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 12:31:33 PM
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I'll say a little more, then I'll shut up!
There are many great things about that system, especially the money aspect! Capitalism at work!
Pharmaceutical companies are putting vast amounts of money into drug research. They are captitalistic entities, out to make some bucks. That helps people. Because they want to make profits, they focus more heavily on things that many people suffer from. I expect a cure for Alzheimer's will come in the not-too-distant future.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 7:40:40 PM
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Hi David,
quote:
I'll say a little more, then I'll shut up!
My last 2 cents, too.
quote:
I expect a cure for Alzheimer's will come in the not-too-distant future.
I sincerely hope you are right but I am still waiting on a cure the common cold.
Best, yb.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 8:11:25 PM
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many people say diseases are mostly psychological, what if they are not psychological but rather spiritual?
just a thought
Neil
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 8:47:18 PM
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| i think it is the same thing. Your psychology is part of your spiritual path because it is a result of your chosen upbringing, your karma, and your choices. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 10:01:11 AM
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I sincerely hope you are right but I am still waiting on a cure the common cold.
Well, be grateful that you're not still waiting for a cure to smallpox, polio, diphteria, measles, mumps, leprosy... and a host of other killers or life-destroyers that are now largely either eliminated or contained by modern medical science. You can also be grateful that these things, like Alzheimers, have a higher priority to medical science than the common cold. 
Oops, I talked again. I'll have to tape my mouth. SMmmfmfm, mmmmfffnf. Smdsfmmmf, mmmff imfdmd.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 4:15:09 PM
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| and many people say that the shots you talk about can cause things such as autism |
Edited by - brother neil on Aug 13 2008 4:22:30 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 5:35:57 PM
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Yes, and tragically, some people have been not vaccinating their children as a result of that scare.
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 7:29:46 PM
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As a wise man (or could have been a woman) once said,
The truth is in the middle.
Absolute views (even believing that the truth is always in the middle) are a form of attachment and I have personally seen my own being unwound through the ayp practices. |
Edited by - Eitherway on Aug 13 2008 7:38:12 PM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2008 : 7:38:43 PM
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Hi you guys,
quote:
David wrote:
and a host of other killers or life-destroyers that are now largely either eliminated or contained by modern medical science.
Speaking of containing and eliminating, the AMA committee on quackery's statement of purpose with regards to the chiropractic profession for several decades up until the 1980s was "to first contain and then eliminate the profession of chiropractic within the United States." (direct quote) I guess they thought we were some kind of disease.
Well, here I am. Another medical failure. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
David, I think our views are slanted towards the opposite sides of the healthcare spectrum. Just a tad.
I know that orthodx medicine has a few feathers in their cap. Emergency medicine is one of my favorites.
But they also have some major SMmmfmfm, mmmmfffnf. Smdsfmmmf, mmmff imfdmd.
In fact, the point of my original post was that I am becoming more and more dispassionate about the whole healthcare "mess" (should not have used that word) and I look at it more and more as a level of karmic interaction now.
I am happy about that.
quote:
Eitherway wrote:
The truth is in the middle.
Absolute views (even believing that the truth is always in the middle) are a form of attachment and I have personally seen my own being unwound through the ayp practices.
In fact, that was all I was trying to say. Thanks, Eitherway, the same thing is happening to me.
For me, everything that happens is karma. Diseases are all karma and the interaction of MDs with their patients is also people living on a particular level of karma. They are meant for each other.
What I was trying to get at is, I get it. There are always going to be people who want what MDs have to offer, and believe it is the best solution, whether there is a better solution or not. It is their karma. Buyer beware. Because, the truth is, they have some very good solutions and they have some very crummy solutions.
Oh well, have a great weekend, yb. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 10:43:00 AM
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Because, the truth is, they have some very good solutions and they have some very crummy solutions.
OK, it's a deal!
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 11:50:52 AM
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One of the great things I've found from AYP practices, is with lots of bhakti and faith in your highest ideal,
you are automatically directed toward the best solution for you at the time. So we don't really have to be concerned with how corrupt, ignorant, or misled other people are.
This becomes invaluable as energy accelerates approaching 2012. It would be easy to panic when the dollar collapses for instance, but instead we can see it as scenery, and return to our practices!
i am assuming everyone else feels this guidance coming from all around us. Can a couple other people validate my assumption here? Do you feel it too? Of course not always. but just enough... |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 1:28:33 PM
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| Etherfish: Yes. My view is that in the process of loosening identification, one embraces a larger part of the universe as their own part. It means we're becoming more conscious of how existence is unfolding and how we're unfolding with it. This to me is the same as "guidance". Seeing more of the world's programming, more of the causality. And going with it skillfully :) It's the silence anyway :) |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 7:50:57 PM
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quote:
David:
OK, it's a deal!
Deal! |
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2012
