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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
 Posted - May 05 2008 : 05:10:55 AM
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I realised something... I didn't even have to try and be honest with myself, it was just like a "hmm, weird" realisation.
Right now, if I could visit heaven or hell, it'd be hell. I just read the "Buddha" book by Deepak Choprah, and in it, he speaks of Siddharta's ventures to hell.
I think it's sort of a "I want to test myself" sort of thing, just sitting there in my subconscious. Part of me that wants to prove something... that suffering is an illusion.
I mean, something doesn't feel right with the above thought of wanting hell. but I hear "suffering is an illusion" over and over again in spiritual circles or whatever.
I want to buy into it... ok cool, I suffer, but hey, it's not real. Why not visit hell then, I could prove it to myself! haha
Heaven on the other hand... perfection. It sounds so lame. I mean, it doesn't even prove anything, it's just perfection. whoop-de-doo. Hell on the other hand, haha, it seems so much more tempting.
I'm sure many of us here have heard of the "dark night of the soul". Of that time period, where your ego goes through "hell" in a sense, and you come out all the "wiser".
Honestly, some part of me wants this. It's like... I've suffered enough, how about just one last time for kicks, we'll get it over with, and welcome the bliss.
There's not even a point to this post really... it's just me voicing something in me, that's been sitting there, that... I felt like voicing I guess.
I don't even believe in heaven and hell really... they're just human construct to me... which makes them real in a way.
It's kinda funny in a way I guess... I mean, I know this is ego, and... when it gets down to it, ego wants suffering. It's crazy, but it does. It's got a million reasons for suffering, or overcoming suffering or whatever. Honestly, I could make up a million reasons of why I want to visit hell. Heaven though? Heaven sucks, haha. Not one reason.
Namaste folks, leave comment if you like. Especially if they're reasons for hell. I don't wanna see one reason for heaven though, those are boring ;).
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 10:11:17 AM
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Divineis,
I've no idea what people are talking about in spiritual circles when they say 'suffering is an illusion'. What does that even mean?
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 10:19:13 AM
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Regarding wanting to taste hell in a sense, perhaps you want to psychically challenge yourself in facing it, in order to strengthen your system? A sort of spontaneous psychic hormesis?
There's more about this concept here. Perhaps what is going on with you is what went on with those who turned towards tapas and extreme asceticisms in the past?
Not for general consumption but it could be the right thing at the right time -- within limits.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 10:38:45 AM
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Hi Divineis
Some people see hell as "darkness" - and hence terms like "bringing light into the darkness" - "black demons" etc etc.
Perhaps you are feeling inclined to explore the darkness.
See this thread http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3669
and http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2021
If you haven't experienced hell on earth, as they say, and you would know about it if you had, I would caution you to go carefully and self-pace accordingly.
P.S. By hell I mean a state of mind. |
Edited by - Sparkle on May 05 2008 5:57:39 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 11:12:01 AM
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I'll opt for purgatory anyday!
What are heaven and hell? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 11:15:42 AM
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Divineis said:
"I think it's sort of a "I want to test myself" sort of thing, just sitting there in my subconscious. Part of me that wants to prove something... that suffering is an illusion."
And an illusion is just an illusion as well, but that doesn't make it any less real. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 4:44:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Part of me that wants to prove something... that suffering is an illusion.
I mean, something doesn't feel right with the above thought of wanting hell. but I hear "suffering is an illusion" over and over again in spiritual circles or whatever.
- - -
Namaste folks, leave comment if you like. Especially if they're reasons for hell. I don't wanna see one reason for heaven though, those are boring ;).
Don't know why, Divineis, but I suddenly recalled a post I wrote looong ago, when I first realized that suffering is an illusion and that pain is actually love and that no evil or "hell" exist on earth apart from our own thoughts torturing us... This is what I wrote:
quote:
Last night I felt a bit angry over bad things in the world. Suddenly awareness hit me and I just felt such tenderness for the world. What is the point of being angry or upset? Absolutely noone! Would you be angry at a child behaving inappropriate? No, you have so much love and understanding for the child, knowing IT DOES NOT KNOW what it is doing! The same approach could be applied to all bad things in the world. Jesus said "Father, forgive them, they do not know what they are doing". That's it! I had so much love in me, I just "knew", and images of things that used to upset me the most were shown to me, and I could just let them pass with a gentle smile inside. Getting angry or upset at "them" is also futile. I had absolute knowing that all bad things I have ever done myself puts me BESIDE all others. My awareness did not put me ABOVE others. I am ONE with them - it is myself I see. I have all those inappropriate behaviors as well in me. So there is no guilt. Noone is ever guilty of anything. Not in the whole world. If Hitler would have been present in the room I would have looked gently at him and said "Thank you for manifesting pain the way you did. Pain and love is one and the same."
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1609 |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 6:22:24 PM
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Divineis,
I don't think you really mean what you are saying. I think you want a little taste of hell without really being in it, just like going to a horror movie but knowing you could walk out at any time.
But the true meaning of hell and suffering is being completely immersed in it and having no escape clause.
It's quite easy to experience if that's what you really want. just walk away from everything you know; your job, your home, your friends, computer, communication, comfort, clothing, food, warmth, shelter, etc. Go be homeless in a place like the mountains in the winter, and don't accept help from anyone, and don't communicate with anyone. just keep in mind that there is no way out, otherwise it wouldn't be hell.
People experience this all the time not far from where i live. quite a few of them die every year, usually losing fingers and toes to frostbite first. They are mentally ill and don't accept help offered them. Doesn't sound like much fun to me. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 03:42:51 AM
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quote:
And an illusion is just an illusion as well, but that doesn't make it any less real.
Exactly :) |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 11:47:04 AM
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| Thank You for sharing - Your post is hilarious |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 11:53:13 AM
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There are endless hells to choose from for your expedition. If you are bored with your own private hell there are some just around the corner, as Etherfish pointed out. I see images of hells from around the world everyday. The saddest hells to me are of the children who suffer unimaginable horrors. I won't get political here though. Once we are free from our own private hells we can better access healing energy to share with the suffering world and aid in the lifting up of our brothers and sisters from their own hells. There are supposedly some hells that are abided in forever, but I think those hells are limited to the dream of separation and its illusion of time and space.
Here is one such hell:
"Helheim ("house of Hel") is one of the nine worlds of Norse mythology. It is ruled by Hel, the monstrous daughter of the trickster god Loki and his wife Angrboda.
This cold, dark and misty abode of the dead is located in the world of Niflheim, on the lowest level of the Norse universe. No one can ever leave this place, because of the impassable river Gjoll that flows from the spring Hvergelmir and encircles Helheim. Once they enter Helheim, not even the gods can leave. Those who die of old age or disease, and those not killed in battle, go to Helheim while those who die bravely on the battlefield go to Valhalla.
The entrance to Helheim is guarded by Garm, a monstrous hound, and Modgud. The giant Hraesvelg ("corpse eater") sits at the edge of the world, overlooking Helheim. In the form of an eagle with flapping wings he makes the wind blow."
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/helheim.html
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 1:32:24 PM
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Not sure what you mean by the hell, but if it means truly painful, horrible and hopeless (just as Etherfish said, the hope of coming back is what makes anything FAR less horrible), try the following (terrible, but it's not my imagination. Some acient chinese came up with them. Don't read on if you couldn't bear the crude description)
1. Tie your 4 limbs to 4 horses and let them tear you apart. It takes a painful while. Then quickly ask someone to heal the wound so you stay alive.
2. Ask someone to put your limbless body in a jar, with only your head popping out. Someone with a mask feed you everyday to keep you alive, but he/she's not allowed to talk to you.
3. When your wound finally heal so you no longer feel painful, blind you. Indeed you need to arrange everything in advance so no one will listen to you when you regret.
.....
I hope none of you would think of me as a crude lunatic. These are just a glimpse of the countless imaginative tortures in acient china. I didn't have the heart to read on, because it's really beyond what I could bear. The above are common knowledge to us (except that in 1., it's usually a way to finish your life, so your head would be tied to a 5th horse.)
Now, if that's the hell, are you going to try it? If your tasting it is reversible, you miss the most terrible part of it: hopeless, irreversible suffer!
Indeed I don't want to see anyone doing this. Just want to say: I don't think you really want to go to the hell unless you've quite a different definition of what the hell is! |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 3:08:37 PM
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| Part of me wants to go to hell's hell, and then climb mount everest. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 3:54:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
Not sure what you mean by the hell, but if it means truly painful, horrible and hopeless (just as Etherfish said, the hope of coming back is what makes anything FAR less horrible), try the following (terrible, but it's not my imagination. Some acient chinese came up with them. Don't read on if you couldn't bear the crude description)
1. Tie your 4 limbs to 4 horses and let them tear you apart. It takes a painful while. Then quickly ask someone to heal the wound so you stay alive.
2. Ask someone to put your limbless body in a jar, with only your head popping out. Someone with a mask feed you everyday to keep you alive, but he/she's not allowed to talk to you.
3. When your wound finally heal so you no longer feel painful, blind you. Indeed you need to arrange everything in advance so no one will listen to you when you regret.
.....
I hope none of you would think of me as a crude lunatic. These are just a glimpse of the countless imaginative tortures in acient china. I didn't have the heart to read on, because it's really beyond what I could bear. The above are common knowledge to us (except that in 1., it's usually a way to finish your life, so your head would be tied to a 5th horse.)
Now, if that's the hell, are you going to try it? If your tasting it is reversible, you miss the most terrible part of it: hopeless, irreversible suffer!
Indeed I don't want to see anyone doing this. Just want to say: I don't think you really want to go to the hell unless you've quite a different definition of what the hell is!
As gruesome as these tortures are, even that suffering will end at death. At least I imagine it will. Meaning, once physical pain is remedied, like a headache for example, then the emotional suffering connected to the pain ends. I would guess that physical death would be an end to physical torture and the connected emotional suffering. The idea of everlasting suffering in hell is then a choice for us to either believe in, or not. As with anything I would like to have proof of the existence of everlasting torture in hell. Are we to take the word of others as truth about this? Aspects of religions that exist for hundreds and thousands of years are built on such unproven beliefs. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 11:25:01 PM
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quote:
As with anything I would like to have proof of the existence of everlasting torture in hell. Are we to take the word of others as truth about this? Aspects of religions that exist for hundreds and thousands of years are built on such unproven beliefs.
Perfect!. That's my thought too. But then aren't you making certain assumptions about what how the hell is like when you say you wanna go to the hell? I'm not saying that this is necessarily the only definition, nor that a everlasting torture exists (in fact, I don't even think "afterlife", a belief rather common here, makes any sense. I believe all feelings and thoughts end with death ) Only that if this is the hell, probably you don't wanna try it--even though, as you're said, any physical torture will still end with death. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2008 : 08:06:40 AM
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Many hells are accessible here on earth simply by changing your perception. The hells that are not accessible from here are either imaginary, used to control people with fear, or something someone has seen in a vision and they assume it happens after we die.
The concept of sometthing lasting "forever" is also imaginary, and often used to control people through fear. One law that is common to all souls is free will, and things only seem to last forever when we get our free will trapped through choices we make, and unwillingness to let go of something. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2008 : 03:27:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
One law that is common to all souls is free will, and things only seem to last forever when we get our free will trapped through choices we make, and unwillingness to let go of something.
Trapped free will? Unwillingness to let go of something???? haha, oh man, that is so unintended Zen of you :). You my friend, have captured the Zen essence of hell in your words. |
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Hannah
38 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2008 : 08:32:44 AM
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Bill Gates died in a car accident and found himself in purgatory, being sized up by St. Peter.
"Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call. I'm not sure whether to send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you enormously helped society by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows 95. I'm going to do something I've never done before in your case. I'm going to let you decide where you want to go."
Bill replied, "Well, what's the difference between the two?"
St. Peter said, "I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly, if it will help your decision."
"Fine, but where should I go first?"
"I'll leave that up to you."
"Okay then," said Bill, "Let's try Hell first."
So Bill went to Hell. It was a beautiful, clean, sandy beach with clear waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the water, laughing and frolicking about. The sun was shining, the temperature was perfect. He was very pleased.
"This is great!" he told St. Peter. "If this is Hell, I really want to see Heaven!"
"Fine," said St. Peter, and off they went.
Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing harps and singing. It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell.
Bill thought for a quick minute, and rendered his decision.
"Hmmm. I think I'd prefer Hell," he told St. Peter.
"Fine," retorted St. Peter, "as you desire."
So Bill Gates went to Hell.
Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was doing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill, shackled to a wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves, being burned and tortured by demons.
"How's everything going?" he asked Bill.
Bill responded, with his voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! This is nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to that other place, with the beautiful beaches, the scantily-clad women playing in the water?!???"
"That was a demo," replied St. Peter. 
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heaven and hell
