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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 09:56:47 AM
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For a year or so, I've been in a low bhakti state. I wouldn't mind that much had I been happy enough. But, I seem to be in a constant low mood, except when being stimulated by travelling which I did quite frequently in recent months. Back home, I see less and less meaning of living.
A few days ago, when a friend of mine who knew I'm in a low mood tried to tell how wonderful it is to believe in god and go to church, I threw to him a dozen of arguments lasting for 2 hours of how irrational the christian belief is; and how miserable it is to base one's hope on such a shaky ground. (Most christian churches ether take a old, literal interpretation of the bible, or don't care at all) This guy, who's reasonably rational, was transfixed and said he didn't think about these before, only was taking the bible as a tool to aid his life. But then he posed a humble question which meant neither defense nor offence but yet transfixed me more than mine did on him: so, then, what do you think is your purpose of life then?
I felt as if I need an answer just to tell this friend, that a meaning of life doesn't have to be so narrow; doesn't necessary have to sit on the old christian mythology which our ancestors created out of the inadequacy of their knowledge in feeding their curious minds or their lack of a better way to hold a social order. Yet, despite this is a question I've thought about many times, I couldn't find an answer convincing enough for myself.
For more than a year, I lost my vision for life, and much of my bhakti. The sitting practice becomes no more than just a routine practice, and I not only skip it from time to time but also cut off most other practices. My mind has a tendency to skip it. The situation goes up and down, indeed, but never back to where I had been in 2006.
I thought back then that I was simply too busy. But now that I'm not busy, my practice isn't going any better. My mood even goes down. I've nothing that could drive my life, no vision of what kind of life I truly want to have.
I not only doubt whether yoga practices will bring me anywhere, because it hasn't made much observable progress so far after more than 2 years. I still meditate merely because it surely is beneficial to my brain. But with no spiritual purposes (which I doubt more and more whether yoga can bring about) behind, my drive is low.
A while ago, the news that the founder of LSD died struck me. I posted about LSD in this forum about a year ago, but the discussion seemed go accidentally onto a different direction. Perhaps, drugs like LSD is the way for me? I don't care whether it's permannent or not. Afterall, I don't think I could ever get into a permanent state of ecstasy. I just need a glimpse of it when I need it. I would almost take the drug if I could reach it, the remaining concern being its potential harm on the brain which very often accompany drugs.
At the same time though, I'm trying to begin Brahmacharya again, which I dropped for some months. Though unlikely, I wish it would contribute to my mood. And I'm trying hard (again!) to maintain a structured sitting practices again.
Any comments?
Alvin |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Apr 30 2008 09:57:28 AM |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 10:58:32 AM
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Hi Alvin,
Sorry to hear of your difficulty. You are not alone. Many of us have had low periods in our life, some of which can extend for some period of time. We can get in an emotional rut that then feeds on itself making it difficult to get moving again. And for those that have bhakti (like yourself, yes there is bhakti inside you Alvin), but whose bhakti is overshadowed, seemingly lowered and not felt because of the extreme dullness of an extended low mood state, it is not unnormal to fell less and less a reason for living. We want to be happy. That is our natural state. When its gone or disappeared in good measure, it is hard to be excited or passionate about living.
At times like this, in addition to following established guidelines for your AYP practice, there are other things that may also be of help.
One thing that helps me is to look at my life and acknowledge the blessings, even if it is something small. To find something to be grateful for ... It might be thanks for a good meal, or a smile from a stranger, having enough money to pay rent, a friend, or just being alive to be able to breathe and have another day ... another opportunity to go outside to enjoy the sun and wind and people who pass my way. It does not matter what it is ... but appreciation and gratitude are wonderful antidotes for helping us out of deep emotional ruts, indifference, lack of passion for life, etc. etc. etc.
Gratitude opens our heart and helps to lift our emotions, to let go of some of the heaviness that we feel. I don't wish to give you just another platitude because I've been there myself but our attitudes, our attitude to ourself, to others, to life, to God deeply affect our daily experience. Find one or two things to be thankful for ... acknowledge them ... allow yourself to begin to feel the gratitude and appreciation ... as the low mood lifts ... you will begin the feel the peace, joy and delight of living again ... this in turn will effect your bhakti and attitude to your practices etc.
Associate with friends and others who are uplifting, that are happy and enjoying life, it is contagious. And remember you have many friends here on the forum who do care about you. We are not in this by ourselves. We truly are siblings, each others brother and sister and are here to help, love and support each other along the way.
Find an activity you do like and have some fun with it and enjoy. Take some time and help another person. Volunteer at a soup kitchen, help a friend, a neighbor ... it does not matter what you choose. Just helping another expands our horizons, gets the attention off ourself and low mood, creates an outflow ... sharing is fun ... it helps us to re-engage with life and others .... gets things moving again.
So don't give up ... this time will pass ... If you create a little opening the help and love of your friends, of your Source will come in and be able to support you even more ...
When in real difficulty, a prayer for help to your Source made sincerely and honestly in your own words can be of great assistance. We cannot do things alone or by our own effort. Our ways are limited. They always will be. We must be willing to let go of them and to let them be replaced by something better. And if we are blocked and cannot, then pray for help with that too. Divine Source wants to give each of us the best every moment of our life. It is important to extend the invitation.
From another post, an exercise called the 'Laughing Buddha' is great for breaking up stuck emotions. We still need to let go of the underlying patterns that caused them but it can create some breathing room.
See the link below.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3788#32750
Some folks have also benefitted from applying EFT for depression, long-lasting moods, etc. I believe there are some other posts on the forum for EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique). You can also check out their website at http://www.emofree.com.
Regarding your question "so, then, what do you think is your purpose of life then?". How about starting with something simple like 'being happy and learning the real meaning of love by sharing with others'.
Wishing you the BEST always ...
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on May 01 2008 12:04:21 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 11:46:53 AM
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Hey Alvin.
Sorry to hear you are feeling low. LSD is a fantastic drug, I had some of my most intense glimpses of expanded consciousness with hallucinogens like LSD. But there are down sides. One of them I experienced was a cycle of depression with each return to "normalcy" and more distancing from any experience of expansive consciousness in that "normal, everyday reality." I wonder if drugs like LSD are available now because human consciousness is ready to expand, and the drugs are merely pointers toward what is now possible for everyone? The may be residue from the chemicals that remains in the nervous system for I don't know how long, and I'm guessing there are neural habits of the brain that develop to accomidate the drug. These possible side-effects wouldn't lend to simplicity and purity of the vehicle. From my experience, cutting things out, including such things as obsessive patterns of thought as well as chemicals makes for a more simple and clean approach so that the vehicle is ready for mind-blowing experinces everyday in gentle and natural ways. If we blow the mind too drastically then the ego latches on to those experiences like it does to everything and attempts to paint a picture of what expanded consciousness is. I don't think we should give the ego too much ammunition.
I also think if you look deeply you may find plenty of bhakti functioning within you, the kind that makes you post here. Be kind to yourself.
Just some thoughts from my experience.
Alan |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 1:03:35 PM
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HI Alvin nice to hear from you 
well you certainly have enough bhakti to post
As far as LSD goes it has certainly been a glimpse of the infinite for some people but I would strongly recommend against you taking it in your present state of mind.
As Timothy Leary said in "the politics of ecstasy" the most important factors in experiencing a good trip on LSD are SET and SETTING, SETTING being the environment and company you are in when you take it and SET being your state of mind.
Now it is easy enough to change the setting you are in you can easily be alone in your room but the most important thing is your state of mind if you are feeling depressed and hopeless as you describe then LSD will NOT lift your mood in fact the results could be disastrous you would almost certainly have a horrible experience that would leave you feeling much worse and on top of that the effects of LSD can last a very long time so be very careful.
You need to do something to lift your mood easy to say I know but not so easy to do, perhaps change your life in some way go out enjoy life but above all keep up your practices especially the meditation it may not seem to be doing anything but I assure you it is.
Some of the time feeling low like this can be a symptom of purification within your nervous system and it will pass. Try and do something that makes you happy maybe you are a bit too serious.
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 2:04:57 PM
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Hi Alvin,
You have gotten some good suggestions here. I would only add that I have at times felt a bit like you. Now I find that even if my practice may lag for whatever reason the inner progression still goes on seemingly by itself because of bhakti, which you obviously have a lot of. Bhakti is a spectrum of devotion and you are on the part of it where you desire to have desire. But of the type that makes you feel blissful instead of empty. When you are aware of feeling empty and desire to feel whole that is bhakti too. And many saints have been there.
Our outer worldly life is important. I find that in order to feel balanced I must keep active in my worldly life with something that also brings out a passion in me. Many people do not have any sort of outer passion/hobbie/sport that brings them a sense of beauty, spirit, and fulfillment. Something in some form that brings one close to nature and "God" but that is available in the physical world.
For me it is the outdoors, nature, and my animals. With this I usually derive more bliss and satisfaction than from meditation, although my spiritual practices are closing in fast.
Perhaps there is something in the outer world that really draws you. (something aside from sex and relationship). Some thing you already have or perhaps something that you've always wanted to try. Go there. Try it. If it's right for you it will have that sense of rightness and will also fulfill a part of spirituality as well.
We so often get locked in to the stifling schedule of work and obligations that we develop a creeping depression that seems to come from no where. Break your routine! Get out of the city. Get in nature. Find your passion. Our activity in the outer world is as important as our spiritual activity because it is really no different. So if your outer world is not bringing you a sense of spirit then spiritualize it! Don't worry about practices slacking off, they will come back. We've all been there. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 2:14:27 PM
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Dear Alvin,
Here is a link to Dr. Amen the brain doctor. http://amenclinics.com/bp/articles.php?articleID=9
He has a lot to teach about the way we use different parts of our brains. The emotional part is called the limbic system including the temporal lobes. I have issues with those things too. He talks about natural supplements as well as medication.
Here is an excerpt:
Temporal Lobe Prescriptions
Rx 1: Strive for wonderful experiences
Rx 2: Improve your ability to use words
Rx 3: Sing whenever you can
Rx 4: Listen to lots of music
Rx 5: Move in rhythms
Rx 6: Medications include Depakote, Tegretol, Neurontin, Dilantin and other anticonvulsants
Limbic Prescriptions
Rx 1: Every thought matters! Kill the ANTs (automatic negative thoughts) in your mind(see "ANTs and ANTEATERS").
Rx 2: Surround yourself with people who provide positive bonding
Rx 3: Great smells.
Rx 4: Philippians 4:8 "Finally, bretheren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things."
Rx 5: Medications include Norpramin, Tofranil, Wellbutrin and other antidepressants.
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2008 : 4:40:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
... I see less and less meaning of living.
... a humble question which ... transfixed me ... : so, then, what do you think is your purpose of life then?
For more than a year, I lost my vision for life, and much of my bhakti. The sitting practice becomes no more than just a routine practice, and I not only skip it from time to time but also cut off most other practices.
I've nothing that could drive my life, no vision of what kind of life I truly want to have.
Hi Alvin,
I've been there. I'm no longer there. It passed for me. It will pass for you.
Impermanence. Impermanence. Impermanence. Really, really, REALLY think about impermanence. Thinking about impermanence, contemplating impermanence, smelling, tasting, touching, listening to & staring at impermanence is opening my consciousness up to my true identity. It will do the same for you.
I have more and more moments in which I experience my body, my physical sensations, my emotions, and my thoughts as being equivalent to objects that appear to be some distance away, such as, for example, trees bending gently in the breeze on a distant hillside. The same will be true for you.
We are the one center of consciousness around which the stuff you call you and the stuff I call me swirls like a hurricane.
We are the eye of that hurricane.
We are the " I " of that hurricane.
And even though the barometric pressure is most severely depressed in the eye of the hurricane, the sky of the eye is wide open to infinity.
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2008 : 1:00:12 PM
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Thanks for everyone's reply. Many good ideas here!
There was a time I posted a lot, and that's the time when my bhakti is very high, my practices very stable, though it's also triggered by an emotional low.
Now I'm not very depressed most of the time. It's only a void, a lack of purpose in life. It's lack of happiness. There're things that could make me laugh, but not much that could make me genuinely happy. Not among what I can control, anyway.
I do go out with friends sometimes, and spend time helping others, feeling good when someone need my help. But it's always a shallow communication that only temporarily lift my mood. Even when helping others, I feel as though I do that only because I want to prove I'm still worthy in the world. But once we part, once I got back home, I feel a sudden loss.
Speaking of interests and activities, I do have many, and even expanding. In they I found some depth and I need the depth. I couldn't afford having spend my life on working overlooking so much scenery of life. Yet, as everyone around me is busy working, I sometimes feel overwhelmed by the depth I long for! I even feel angry about the others' total focus on career, love, sex, gossips......or family. Perhaps because I myself feel no warmth at home, no comfort from my family apart from some familiar faces.
A stern fact, which I didn't realize until recent years, sadden me: all kinds of relationship form, and part. Parents will be my parents until one of us die, yet it's exactly my parents' views that I can't stand most, which loosens this surest relationship. Most other persons we met or talk to are like passerbys in our life. It may be a trivial observation, but it truly makes me sad.....
I'll keep trying different ways to lighten myself up. Probably I won't try drugs unless it really got worse. Anyway, my practices seem to have some boost these few days. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2008 : 1:35:07 PM
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Be VERY careful with LSD. According to my research (which I trust to be fairly accurate and up to date), "Street LSD is not just hard to find. It is impossible to find. It does not exist. There is no pure LSD available on the street in the United States." So, anything selling as "LSD" would likely be some mixture of mostly amphetamines, with perhaps Ecstasy or other street drugs mixed in. Be VERY careful what you take, and trust nothing to actually be the real LSD. The only possible form of LSD that may be trusted is "blotter acid", small squares of paper (sometimes printed with a design), onto which a tiny drop of liquid LSD has been put. There is literally no room on a small square of paper for any impurities--that might actually be LSD. Many decades ago, there was also a form called "window pane acid", along the same idea--a tiny chip of hardened gelatin impregnated with LSD--again, without the chance of any other additives, because the medium is too small. However, there are several new chemicals which ARE potent enough to have effects when put in blotter form--you will almost never be getting LSD, you may be getting nothing at all, or worse still, you will likely be getting something dangerous and unpredictable. When I took LSD in the 60's and early 70's, it was all real acid, most of it cooked up by the famous Owsley, or actual Sandoz lab LSD, from when it was still legal. Believe nothing. Trust no one. The purpose of Life is to Love--so then, as the Jefferson Airplane sang, "You better find somebody to love..."
Michael |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 01:26:28 AM
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hmm yeah, about the drugs... I've done my fair share of drugs. I've never tried acid, though have done mushrooms, marijuana, ecstacy, cocaine, salvia, speed and a few others.
They're interesting experiences, but... they're just that. I know David Hawkins often describes it as sort of "cancelling out" the lower planes of consciousness, so it seems you're temporarily "higher", but you're really just putting a temporary veil on the lower stuff. And once the veil is pulled away, you can very often end up "lower" than where you started at... so to speak.
I mean, if you're feeling "down" right now, trust me, drugs won't change any of that. There's no such thing as a "quick fix". I mean, I've had some awesome shroom trips where it feels like I know the meaning of life or whatever. But then you come down, and you're just back into the same groove of life, and you have maybe a cool trippy story or two to tell your friends haha. By all means, if you're curious, try it out, just don't fool yourself into thinking it'll change anything. Or maybe do fool yourself, I dunno, placebo's are good sometimes haha. Bah, don't listen to me, I'm really indecisive haha.
As for purpose and meaning and such, sometimes I write in a journal, it often helps me stay on track to what matters most for me. It helps me express whatever thoughts are popular in my brain at the time too. The cool thing with a journal, is you can express things freely. You can just let it all out on paper and see where that takes you. I've been through some depressed sort of phases, and a journal has helped me a loooot with accepting things, accepting my "depressed" state. It can let you "go into it" in a way, and better find what you need to learn or unlearn.
oh and, for drug info: http://www.erowid.org/
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Edited by - Divineis on May 02 2008 02:04:00 AM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 12:31:32 PM
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Thanks for the info, in particular the first hand experiences, concerning drugs. Not a single person around me take drugs, and I don't think I could reach them even if I want to. But now I'm not going to take the chance.
I've been re-reading some of my own posts and the replies and found much in them: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1402 http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=1
It's just the same again.....perhaps I was simply being impatient, and even a little angry about the situation to a point that I wanted to punish and torture myself with drugs. There's not the way, I know now. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 12:44:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
Thanks for the info, in particular the first hand experiences, concerning drugs. Not a single person around me take drugs, and I don't think I could reach them even if I want to. But now I'm not going to take the chance.
I've been re-reading some of my own posts and the replies and found much in them: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1402 http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=1
It's just the same again.....perhaps I was simply being impatient, and even a little angry about the situation to a point that I wanted to punish and torture myself with drugs. There's not the way, I know now.
Hi Alvin. We do nothing wrong when we struggle and take so many roads. Eventually peace begins to dawn and the struggle is forgiven. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 12:57:18 PM
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Oh, and the friend's question of what is the purpose of life? I think no-one is capable of really answering that for another. But I'll give it a little go anyway. Maybe the purpose of life just is. Maybe allowing life to live fully in this moment is the purpose of life. Maybe there really is no purpose we have to answer to in the mind. Maybe we are the purpose of life just as it manifests as us. Maybe just to love.
Just some ponderings. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 1:01:28 PM
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Thanks, Balance. I sometimes feel I'm more childish (in a negative way) than the others. I'm impulsed to be wild, as if there's some truth that I wish to catch. But very often it turns out only to be an illusion.
btw, has peace dawned on your side? (I hope that wouldn't bear any implication about your age ) |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on May 02 2008 1:04:05 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2008 : 1:20:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
Thanks, Balance. I sometimes feel I'm more childish (in a negative way) than the others. I'm impulsed to be wild, as if there's some truth that I wish to catch. But very often it turns out only to be an illusion.
btw, has peace dawned on your side? (I hope that wouldn't bear any implication about your age)
I can just see a promising glow below the distant horizon. I feel the solar breeze caress me through the sillouhettes of the trees beneath the twinkling stars of the ancient night. I can smell the dawning of a new day and hear the rustlings of awakening life all around just beyond my smaller vision. I feel both old and new |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2008 : 12:41:26 AM
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hi Alvin,
you have some very good posts.
just my share of thoughts.
The state of mind you are in right now comes to every spiritual seeker.
What is the purpose of life? the answer to this question is simple "to live". We are part of a whole process of nature. What is the purpose of life of a tree or a grass or a tiger or a lion, etc.? Do they really have a purpose, do they ponder about it? Yes, they do have a purpose, they contribute to the whole process of nature in their own way. So what is your purpose, you may not know yourself but still you are contributing to this whole process. just by being alive you are giving a comfort to your parents by being with them, either near or far. you are giving comfort to your friends and well wishers that you are there to share their thoughts. Even you are purposeful to your enemies, if you have one, making them think about different ways to outsmart you.
In god's creation everything has a purpose, i mean everything, even a dust has the purpose of dispersing the light falling on it, so as a man you have lot more. In tamil there is a saying, "siru thurumbum pal kutha udavum" meaning even the smallest piece of material will help in picking out our tooth. So, dont worry, we are all there to support you.
Getting out of lows is tough even for a ordinary man, as a spiritual seeker it is even more tough but that is the test you have to face to make your mind and heart strong, strong enough to break the barriers of perception of this world. Never, never, never give up. Life is always there TO LIVE.
In yogani's words,
THE GURU IS IN YOU.
enjoy,
satyan |
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bhakti lost, regressing experience and mood, drugs
