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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 09 2008 : 09:16:52 AM
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This is a spin-off of the following thread:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3398
Sparkle wrote (on Amma):
quote:
After I experienced her first through a darshan I began to experience energies in connection with another person I felt close to, then it seemed to change completely to Amma, it was confusing because there seemed a strong link between Amma and this other person
Yes. I know exactly how this feels. It is confusing because it takes a while before understanding that the link is the same all over. What I am close to, is always the same: the Shine. It is just that when the shine is embodied .......it becomes attached to a body...and as such visible......physically tangible. It becomes an ishta....an object of devotion (please correct me if I am wrong, Yogani).
The first time this confusion happened to me was about seven years ago.....I met a man who shone. He did not know it himself....he was oblivious to it; which was very ....striking. Anyway.....it took me years to understand that it was the Shine reflected in him that I loved. On meeting him......in an instant - literally - I understood that my life was untrue. This incident happened right after sitting in my office (between patients appointments) one day....feeling like i was on the brink of insanity because i didn't know "who am I?" I had been looking and looking for myself for so long......
Anyway; i don't know how or why it happened, but all of a sudden everything just stopped. It was as if all sound was "sucked out" of the room i was sitting in, and in the vacuum...there was this insight: It is not about who I am! Who i am is not important! It is the fact that I am that is.
I have barely begun to integrate the immensity of this shock. First the shock, and then the meeting - very briefly and wordlessly - with real love. But since then, books of enlightened masters just came my way. I yearned, and they came. Unfailingly. They still do (through all of you here). And since the residue of the vacuum was there, the resonance could happen. Then I "met" Yogani and AYP. "I am" amplifies the space within. The fact of Yogani is limitless Shining Presence. What a blessing he is! That is why i do not have to believe in Amma. She is an enormous, limitless, hugging fact. Before "meeting" her through Maha Lakshmi (the Australian "stay home" woman), I "met" Mother Meera through Christi. It is the same. She is a fact too. An enormous, silent, caring fact. They are the same fact: the Shine. Amma, Mother Meera, Yogani (not so hidden...if you take off your glasses while reading  ), Adyashanti......they are all amplifiers of the shine. They are the sound and darshan of the shine.
So. It is always the shine that is the link. It is the shine that is the ishta after all.
After the melting of mammas face (my mother) with ammas face........after the surfacing of the grief.....then the plunging straight into emcs hilarious post "we are reading the self-inquiry book"
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3427
After laughing my heart out (emc...please take to heart the difference you make to everything perceived) it just dawned on me that I actually have a choice that is a no choice. Instead of being afraid of supressing grief, and instead of being afraid of artificially sustaining love......I can just trust the shine to present itself in any way it pleases. Everything is ok - since it is all of the shine anyway. It is the shine in the grief and shine in the love and shine in the laughter.
There was such immense relief after that.
Just....lasting peace and quiet. And a roaring laughter! (I am still laughing)
The night before last, i got a call from a conductor. He phoned to tell of the tragic death (taking two years to die of a brain tumor) of a young, married mother of two that we have both worked with. This conductor shines too. We had a very deep connection over the phone.
The day after, at work...just after the writing of the response to cyberboy in the "dear yogibear" topic
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3440
I suddenly felt what I first thought was the conductor coming through.....all of a sudden there was this immense love coming through. I sat very still and just let it fill the room....At one point it all just simply came together: Oh...it is not him! It is the Love through him. And then it just overflowed its boarders...and it became strikingly obvious that it is simply it. All of this and that, him and her,....all of it is the love. And then.....I don't know how to explain this...but then the love joined with the shine. And I understood, for the first time experiencially understood, that I had acted as if they were two: The shine and the love. As if there was not room enough for both the clarity and the love in the same space. This immaturity just.....dissolved itself right there and then.
And with it came the supprising realization (it took be by complete surprise) that the love/shine loves me too. I have loved it for many years now.....but it never dawned on me - not even once - that it actually loves me back. No matter what I carry, no matter what i do, no matter how many faults, flaws, flakes and flurries.....it still loves me. Unbelievable......but here it is......loving all.
And so it came to be that the fear is ready to be loved to death.
  
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2008 : 1:59:31 PM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
It is the Love through him. And then it just overflowed its boarders...and it became strikingly obvious that it is simply it. All of this and that, him and her,....all of it is the love. And then.....I don't know how to explain this...but then the love joined with the shine. And I understood, for the first time experiencially understood, that I had acted as if they were two: The shine and the love. As if there was not room enough for both the clarity and the love in the same space. This immaturity just.....dissolved itself right there and then.
Last summer when I was at the Adyashanti retreat on my last day there I had a similar experience. I walked up a hill to this "Japanese grove" of trees that I had found to be a particularly "silent" place at the retreat. I sat there in the middle of this ring of trees, staring at this little statue of the Buddha. I had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to see something, but my mind was blocking me from the knowing. Then despite my mind, I became aware of the essence behind the Buddha, the very same essence behind the trees and everywhere in everything. That essence was love, and I realized that every step I took, I was loved and supported by this essence. It changed my life forever.
I have seen (physically through the eyes) that radiating pulsing light on a black background any time I look at anything for as long as I remember, but that was the first time I realized it as love. To me it is the inner-silence and the further I clear myself out and allow my awareness to radiate naturally from the heart, unimpeded by the thoughts of the mind, the more I come to know this direct experience of the "flow of life".
This is what I wrote of it here, your post made me reflect back to it and it is wonderful to remember, so thank you for prompting it.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=7#24443
I was blessed with some wonderful realizations that have changed my life forever. The most important that people on this planet desperately need to know, is that there is a profound and loving divine gentleness that permeates all of us and every aspect of creation. We are so loved and cared for by an intelligence that is so vast that we can not comprehend with our minds but only with our hearts. God wants us to know this for ourselves but our direct experience of it is blocked by our minds. Consistent practice with all the tools available to us is the way to set ourselves free and we need to know that if we are sincere, realization will happen despite us, we are being guided every step of the way, we can let go and just trust.
quote:
And so it came to be that the fear is ready to be loved to death.
and also from my perspective, the fear loves us "to death" it is our most faithful servant, serving us non-stop our entire lives to let us know how things might go wrong, so that we can look after ourselves. Although fear can get confused or over react to nothing, it still is acting from a profound love for the self. Fear is willing to stay seperate from us, trapped in thoughts for a life-time, until we are willing to hear its message, accept it and allow it to come home. What an incredible, self-less sacrifice. It must be love. |
Edited by - Anthem on Feb 09 2008 2:05:53 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 03:51:38 AM
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That is beautiful, Anthem
Thank you for sharing.
Yes.....the first time the shine and the love came together was about a year before the kundalini reached the central channel. It is just that this was not my space. It was something that happened to me. I bathed in that love for seven days and it did indeed change everything for ever. To know that love actually exists was - and is......silencing. It is an ongoing awe...
So...first the shine was integrated. But the love.....the love takes much longer to....open to.
But I never - not once - grooked that this was my identity. I never grooked that the "me" was loved equally deep. The loving, shining, lucid......presence; I never really knew that the love too was my own space. In addition to the lucidness! I know myself as the shining space that is all over the place....as such I have known the limitless space. But the love.....I didn't understand that it was my individual lover too. And when we melt.....we are one. Yet at the same time it is able to give the experiencing of being two!
The shine is a very, very personal lover. An intimate lover.....
The opening to this lovingness is an ongoing...never ending.....dynamic....wonder.
This was, is, and will always be...... my dharma.
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 05:59:03 AM
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This might be considered a somewhat dry response to your post.
When the heart chakra begins to open up, one experiences love. The love can be felt both as impersonal and as personal, and in the early stages it might be confusing.
This is maybe one good reason why so many traditions stress the importance of a secluded life as a monk or nun. Strict outer rules about contact with the opposite sex saves the seeker from making the silly mistake (and acting on it) that this love emanates from someone else, an outer object or person. Or guru.
On the other hand, and this is what makes it so un-logical, it does. Until this riddle is solved there is always the danger to get involved with someone and to start a new round of karmic entanglement that will delay your progress.
Enjoy the love!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 06:31:31 AM
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Hi lookatmynavelnow
Thank you so much.
Your post is not dry at all
quote:
Strict outer rules about contact with the opposite sex saves the seeker from making the silly mistake (and acting on it) that this love emanates from someone else, an outer object or person. Or guru.
The way I see it, it is this exact contact with the opposite sex......the very freedom to "make mistakes".....the "not being saved" from it, that also intergrates this understanding. I have always been this way.....how can I fully know any taste without having tasted it first?
quote:
Until this riddle is solved there is always the danger to get involved with someone
And now this is no danger! I don't have to be afraid anymore....this is a tremendous jubilation! I can now get involved with "someone"...if that is what the shine wishes....and not fall into unconsciousness.
I am already involved in everything. Who knows what will happen next?
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 07:45:45 AM
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Hi Lookatmynavelnow,
I had a couple thoughts when I read your post. First, it might sound funny but, to me, I don't know how progress can ever be slowed down. It is always perfect.
And second is a quote that hit me right between the eyes from Eckhart Tolle:
"Relationships are not here to make you happy; They are here to make you conscious."
Couldn't have said it better.
Best, from the astringent yb.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 2:37:28 PM
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Hi Katrine
I’m not familiar with the “shine”, the word has no reference to my experience, that I know of
Whilst I do sometimes experience light and a feeling of love that is so gentle, soft and like warm liquid oil inside me and diffusing into my surroundings like as if I could put may hand of love through the couch of love, that I am sitting on, this is different from my current predominant experiencing of life.
Currently, my experience is with the darker energies of Mother Earth. Seeing, with my body, the earth energies emanate from the centre of the Earth, seeing them emanate from the centre of everything, from the centre of each molecule, each cell in my body, each atom in the universe. Like with the love above, it seems like I could put my hand through anything solid, as if it was all just dark energy.
When I see a concrete pillar I might acknowledge it as Ma (the name currently for Earth energies), it has given me a new found reverence for everything around me. When I prepare food now, it is totally different than before, there is such reverence for the food, it is the dark energy, it is me.
Do I feel love when I experience this, no I don’t, not in the same way described above in the second paragraph.
Am I worried – no. Am I worried that I have fallen into some dark evil place and I don’t realise it – no – but maybe I’m delusional in this.
What happens is, the result of this experiencing is a more loving relationship with everything, my response to things, situations etc is more loving, more kind, it can’t be any other way, there is reverence for all.
Well reading over the above, looks pretty cool to me(the ego) hehe!, but then I have my shadow side, which is different to this dark energy, just to put things a little into perspective – my shadow is still hugh, as you say, I have just begun.
In relation to Amma, I see her as one embodiment of this energy. She touches me personally each Tuesday evening and Wednesday with felt energies and/or insights. I didn’t ask for this, it just started occurring the week after I got Darshan from her and a Kali mantra.
The extraordinary thing for me is that it occurs at the exact time I got the Darshan.
For two or three weeks I didn’t realise it had anything to do with Amma. I was experiencing wonderful things in relation to the person I referred to in the other post. Then it dawned on me about the timing in relation to the Darhsan, and I realised it was primarily connected with Amma.
I find this an extraordinary mystery, especially when one considers she has probably hugged about one million people since she saw me, and then there are also the other millions before that.
Now I am beginning to experience this kind of powerful felt relationship with others also in relation to Amma. It is also obvious that others are feeling something different from me to, like my wife, for instance.
quote:
She is a fact too. An enormous, silent, caring fact. They are the same fact: the Shine. Amma, Mother Meera, Yogani (not so hidden...if you take off your glasses while reading ), Adyashanti......they are all amplifiers of the shine. They are the sound and darshan of the shine.
Yes, this is my understanding also. I don’t regard Amma as my guru, but I did ask her for help in the form of a mantra. When I considered asking for a mantra I discussed the guru issue at length with one of her senior devotees. She said Amma’s take on the guru thing was not too rigid and that just asking for help on its own was quite ok.
So whilst I appreciate the universality of Amma and Yogani and other’s, at present I have a particular relationship with both, and also with many here on the forum. This particular relationship feels wonderful, like I am being nurtured and helped along the road. I am alone but not alone, we are in a state , as Thich Nhat Hanh says, of Interbeing.
quote:
It is the Love through him. And then it just overflowed its boarders...and it became strikingly obvious that it is simply it. All of this and that, him and her,....all of it is the love. And then.....I don't know how to explain this...but then the love joined with the shine. And I understood, for the first time experiencially understood, that I had acted as if they were two: The shine and the love. As if there was not room enough for both the clarity and the love in the same space. This immaturity just.....dissolved itself right there and then.
And with it came the supprising realization (it took be by complete surprise) that the love/shine loves me too. I have loved it for many years now.....but it never dawned on me - not even once - that it actually loves me back. No matter what I carry, no matter what i do, no matter how many faults, flaws, flakes and flurries.....it still loves me. Unbelievable......but here it is......loving all.
And so it came to be that the fear is ready to be loved to death.
This sounds beautiful Katrine, perhaps I will also experience this with the dark energies, with Ma, or maybe not, whatever happens will happen. Perhaps the dark energies and the light will merge in the heart, Shakti and Shiva as lovers within.
Thank you for your love, it helps row my boat of love across the sea of love to the farther shore of love, in order to experience IT by abandoning all that, the boat, sea and the farther shore …. and other such delirious rantings hehe!!
Ciao
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 5:13:01 PM
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Hi Louis
How beautiful....about Amma
I do mean it literally when I say that she comes when called. She is so widespread, Louis.....and she tends personally to all she touches. However - never forget that it is your beautiful openness that invites her in. So much for the huge shadow
quote:
I have just begun.
Yes! This is it! I am laughing and laughing....because it is always just like this: I am always just beginning! No matter how huge your shadow is......you are always just beginning!
If you can tolerate this total insecurity it turns into constant support.
quote:
What happens is, the result of this experiencing is a more loving relationship with everything, my response to things, situations etc is more loving, more kind, it can’t be any other way, there is reverence for all.
You are describing the shine
quote:
This particular relationship feels wonderful, like I am being nurtured and helped along the road
Yes.
quote:
This sounds beautiful Katrine, perhaps I will also experience this with the dark energies, with Ma, or maybe not, whatever happens will happen. Perhaps the dark energies and the light will merge in the heart, Shakti and Shiva as lovers within.
What you are waiting for has already happened, Louis....
Ma is not the opposite of the shine. Just as the dark energies is not the opposite of light.
The shine is the ongoing, ever new, result. Were it not for Ma - how could i begin in the first place?
Thank you for this beatuiful post, Louis |
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 5:44:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogibear
I don't know how progress can ever be slowed down. It is always perfect.
From a philosophical point of view, you have then to accept that everything is perfect and everything is changing perfectly, because it is the “order of the universe” or “Gods will”, whatever you would call it. That totally eliminates the free will of the individual and also frees the individual from all responsibility. That makes you a puppet of God. There are also other problems with this kind of philosophy.
Stop meditating and watch if your progress slows down.
(Hey, don’t get mad at me, this is the perfect answer and you know it!)
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 11:52:36 PM
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Hi Lookatmynavelnow,
I agree with you; if I don't practice meditation regularly, my progress will be slowed.
I do think that everything happens perfectly.
Life could be better and it could be worse so I am happy with how things are.
I count my blessings. If something bad happens, thank goodness, I have burned that Karma and paid my debt. I just do my best to keep generating good karma.
The past could not have happened any other way. If it could have, it would have.
On the other hand, the future is a blank page, and I have the freedom to choose my actions.
This is how I reconcile fate and free will, or, at the very least, my illusion of free will. If it is an illusion, so be it.
It is my perception that I am in control of and responsible for my actions.
I prefer a philosophy that enables me to be active in a constructive way and have a positive effect on my environment.
Well, right or wrong, it works for me, anyways.
Best, yb.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2008 : 03:58:34 AM
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quote:
The shine is a very, very personal lover. An intimate lover.....
I just saw this....and I have to refrase:
The shine is both, Louis.
The lovers meet.....and in the joining.....the shine results....
All the time birthed.....
All the time new.
I just didn't understand this until the love became conscious.
That's all folks |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2008 : 11:16:00 AM
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quote:
But I never - not once - grooked that this was my identity. I never grooked that the "me" was loved equally deep. The loving, shining, lucid......presence; I never really knew that the love too was my own space. In addition to the lucidness! I know myself as the shining space that is all over the place....as such I have known the limitless space. But the love.....I didn't understand that it was my individual lover too. And when we melt.....we are one. Yet at the same time it is able to give the experiencing of being two!
Hi Katrine,
This describes my perspective perfectly right now. I haven't yet realized directly or full-time that the loving presence is in my space too. I see it there, but I don't connect the two yet, they still seem separate. It's that unity consciousness that Yogani refers to, I know it is there, but not directly. It's funny I know intuitively that this perception will come in time, I have had glimpses on occasion over the last few years, but the knowing isn't with me full-time.
It used to bother me not perceiving this directly, but I understand that I am opening at the fastest rate possible for me, so I enjoy the openings of today. The oneness of it all can reveal itself in many ways. First for me was perceiving the essence behind everything and everyone, knowing the nothingness of myself was another wonderful realization which started off only occasionally and now can be perceived when I bring awareness to my perceiving (if that makes any sense).
To me, the perceiving of the equality of all life circumstances and experiences, none being better than the other is another way that the oneness of life reveals itself. Then realizing the inherent goodness or positive aspect in all that happens, if we look deeply enough, is yet again another way that life or inner silence reveals itself. It is all a wonderful unfolding that I only imagine will continue in infinite ways, only the heart can know the joy in this, words can't express the gratitude.
I think it is important to fully enjoy and completely be with the awareness of today because we’ll never have the opportunity again to see life the way we do today. It’s such a blessing to be able to watch ourselves unfold, it gives us the opportunity to see it as a journey, which is half the fun and to be able to share it with others and understand intimately where they are and what they are going through on their journey. It’s really a perfect plan.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2008 : 3:31:12 PM
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quote:
Katrine said: I am always just beginning! No matter how huge your shadow is......you are always just beginning!
If you can tolerate this total insecurity it turns into constant support.
I especially like this Katrine.
The insecurity of knowing nothing, of having no control, of trusting this insecurity, of trusting Ma, the Shine. It is a support, the only support worth anything. I own nothing, I don't even own myself.
This love and the Ma energies havn't joined in me either, that I know of. I'm sure the levels and debths of this are fathomless, I feel I'm just scratching the surface.
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The shine
