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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 10:55:59 AM
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Some of you used to be with SRF and switched to AYP. You all seem to say that AYP is better. Can i ask why? Canyou give all the reasons why it is better?
Regarding the SRF technique of Hong Sau, what was your experience with this and why do you believe I AM mantra is better?
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2007 : 4:40:34 PM
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Hi Gumpi,
I have been doing yoga in one form or another, more or less, since about 1970.
Since about 1991, I was in SRF. Now I do AYP. I now also do any technique that I feel will advance me in a positive way. I left SRF because it was too, too restricting for me. Also there were certain things that I never liked or could get into. I hate the energization exercises. I think the lessons are mostly fluff and rather silly. The monastics, most of them, don't even know, or pretend not to know about automatic yoga and kundalini awakening. When I asked one monk (a monk for over 20 years) what bliss is, he told me it was like the feeling one gets after childbirth!  I asked a nun about the automatic uddiyana I experience and she just stared at me!
I could go on. There's all kind of crap in organizations. Especially when there is a heirarchy.
The Hong Sau technique of meditation was actually a very good one for me personally. I went very deep during HongSau before I ever took kriya. (kriya is essentially the same as spinal breathing). I began to feel a little of the prana/kundalini as a result, but that didn't really get going until I began pranayama. In HongSau the brain/mind is more involved than AYP because you must focus on the breath as well as the HongSau mantra, and they must be in sync. Once you get the hang of it it can be very nice. However I do not feel that with HongSau you get the advantage from the mantra of the type you get from AYP. In AYP the mantra is SOUND and is like a tuning fork that is slowing tuning your body/nervous system to a finer level. I don't really know how else to describe it except to say that my experience with I AM is deeper and more profound, my body/nervous system has changed, my outlook/bliss level is better, and I AM is WAY easier.
I hated the guilt that came with SRF. I suppose you can say it was self generated because I wanted to believe what they were teaching. I hated the SECRECY. That's the worst! Not allowed to speak of the method of kriya or talk about your experiences except to a monk who may not even have the spiritual attainment to understand them!!!
While I was in SRF I began doing some other practices after a trip to India. During my trip my mother-in-law introduced me to some other pranayama methods that I had heard about before but never tried. WHAM!
What a difference! I began to see the third eye. Feel energy in my body move up from the root and automatic yoga began. I knew from reading Sivananda that this meant kundlini was awakening. I began to feel just a little bit of bliss from the methods. This got me looking around for more and that's how I started doing AYP.
After beginning with AYP I felt so much better. Psychologically as well as spiritually. Same thing though, no? I AM meditation allowed me the same benefits and even more but also freed me up from the drugery that SRF requires. Like a huge weight lifted. Much less time involved with much greater benefits. If you do even half of what SRF wants you to do everyday you will be spending hours daily! Despite my best efforts I could never live up to the standard. Also the spiritual progress is SLOW. If SRF Kriya is the airplane route to God, then AYP is the space shuttle! AYP has given us so many methods that work without the guilt and finger pointing.
Well, I've sort of blabbed on and on. Sorry. Let me summarize. Hong Sau is a very good method. It relaxes you, de-stresses you. And you may even feel a little prana stirring. If you try it for only 20 minutes like in AYP, you won't feel much accomplishment. HongSau takes time.
IAM can be done in 20 minutes or less with profound results. Calmer and less stressed during the day, and in time you feel the rise of bliss. Things that used to set your heart racing you will find yourself calmly observing and reacting to in a positive manner. With I AM you begin to feel the change in you body very soon. The mantra soon (for me at least) soon settles deep within you and opens the heart. Prana takes off. It is a great foundation for pranayam.
In HongSau you must maintain focus on the breath/mantra. Thoughts interfere. In IAM meditation the mantra keeps going "by itself" even when thoughts come. And unlike HongSau, thoughts during I AM meditation are not the enemy. They are part of the process. Another guilt trip bites the dust! 
With AYP, I have learned by reading Yogani that I can figure this out without a giant organization standing on my head. Yogani has through the lessons given me the confidence to go on by myself. To trust my own self/guru. I feel safer. I feel better about myself. I feel I'm finally on a path that I can stick with. I feel that "Yes I can!" attain bliss/enlightenment.
The spinal breathing pranayam of AYP is better than SRFs Kriya, not only because you are not restricted in how much you do or when or how, but AYP spinal breathing is more effective and less complicated than SRF. In SRF there are four "levels" of kriya. Each one gets more complicated. The monks are the ones to decide when you are ready to advance. In AYP YOU do the deciding. You are your own guru.
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Edited by - LittleTurtle on Nov 20 2007 4:54:48 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 06:41:34 AM
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Wow, nice big response! I like it.
You bring up many good points. However, i have found in my practice of Hong Sau that my breathing stops for short periods of time. This seems to be the aim for SRF - the breathless state. Is that right?
After i finish my session with Hong Sau i feel very calm and also a tad joyous. I never got this with I AM mantra.
You mention how YOU decide and you are the guru. I get the impression from this that you weren't comfortable with the whole guru idea. In my experience i believe Yogananda initiated me in a dream. And so i am obviously confused here. On the one hand, Hong Sau seems to be working for me and on the other hand i see so many people here at AYP saying AYP is better.
Regarding Spinal Breathing, i know there are slight differences in the technique from SRF's Kriya but if i had to be honest i would say the differences aren't much. Essentially all spinal breathing techniques are the same.
So maybe AYP is the path for you and SRF is the path for me. Who knows why results are quicker or not? Maybe if Yogananda is my guru, i will get quicker results with SRF.
Coming back to Hong Sau. As i said, it seems the whole purpose of Kriya and Hong Sau is the breathless state. If so, what is "wrong" with that? And why do i get better results with Hong Sau? |
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tosh
Germany
4 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 09:35:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
And why do i get better results with Hong Sau?
Perhaps what technique brings the better results is very much dependant on the individual. With me, it is similar to LittleTurtles experience: from the first session on I went deeper with I AM than with any other technique I ever used, including TM and Hong Sau.
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 3:04:42 PM
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| Yes. I agree. Go with what is right for you. And yes, HongSau does promote the breathless state. A good thing. I found that I got that from both HongSau and IAM. I think you should follow your gut feeling and you seem to be doing that. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 3:58:47 PM
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Very nice! thanks |
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FLgal
1 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 8:53:43 PM
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I think the very last words I would use to describe the SRF lessons is 'silly' and 'fluffy'. I felt they were deeply profound and practical. Ultimately I felt they were aligning me (even on the most basic life issues) with correct spiritual living and thinking.
As for the secrecy part of disseminating Kriya techniques, I agree with SRF entirely. If people were allowed to dissiminate such a sacred science (remember where it came from - ancient Rishi's, milleniums ago) in a casual manner the techniques would be ineffective and misleading ultimately damaging a person's spiritual evolution. Even tho I have been doing Kriya for years, I am not able, in the least, on an intellectual, physical and spiritual level, to instruct someone on how to do it properly..... it is far to intricate and precise.
Little Turtle, I am by no means trying to be condescending or hurtful, I just disagree with your view. It appears that you have found your path. That is a blessing. Namaste, Flgal. |
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Swami Vajra
42 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2007 : 9:17:25 PM
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| If your goal is to stand on the roof and see the world from that vantage point, does it matter if the ladder you use is wood or aluminum? |
Edited by - Swami Vajra on Nov 21 2007 9:20:42 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 8:46:21 PM
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If you want to get up on the roof without breaking your leg, or get up at all, a ladder made of aluminium may be a lot better than a thousand-year old ladder made of wood.
BUT, that said, we should not look on AYP-versus other traditions in a competitive, sectarian way. AYP breaks open the secrets -- and lays out some best-of-breed techniques that were scattered among various traditions. It seems that very few traditions had them all at hand (in fact I don't know of any particular yoga school that did). What you see here is an open exposition of the legacy of human yoga which developed over centuries.
Why were the secrets kept secret? In my view, largely because people knew no better. I don't buy the story that they were kept secret to preserve them. Sure, that's the received reason, but I don't think it holds much water -- writing has been around for a long time. Writing is a great way to preserve something. Openness is way better than secrecy for preserving something. The kind of books Yogani wrote could have been written centuries ago. People kept them secret becasue the traditions told them to, and they bought the stories they were told and did what they were told. And secrets were great for business; they're a great tool of priestcraft, and helped to keep the schools going.
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2007 : 10:11:51 PM
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Yeah. I was just relating my own experience thus far. Because that's what it comes down to for me. Experience. I want to experience the divine. Not be told what I should be, do, know, but experience it for my self. Otherwise it's just sprituality by proxy, which = not much. Just adult version of santa claus. Just story. And I think Gumpi was basically asking that question to compare to his/her own experience thus far.
I have a sort of theory about the secret thing. Apart from the obvious use of secrets as a lever for power. I think the yugas (if there is such an influence. don't know.) have something to do with that. The possibility of knowledge actually being lost or adulterated in some way because of the cycle of yugas. And now we are coming out of the Kali yuga some time back (or so some think) and into the Dwapara yuga now. So the world is changing. Yay, . |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2007 : 12:07:27 PM
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Hi All:
There can be no doubt that there have always been people who wished to openly share the knowledge of spiritual practices. The more we study our ancestors, the more we find they were very much like us. So why didn't they?
The times were different then, and this limited the kind of knowledge sharing and progress we are able to achieve today. We tend to take for granted the basic freedoms and technology we now enjoy. In those days there was limited freedom of speech, no free press, and no broad communication networks for sharing knowledge like we have today. War (often clothed in religious superstition) was the rule rather than the exception. So the sharing of spiritual methods (and all kinds of knowledge) was limited. The traditions grew up in that environment.
We still have traces of those past limitations, but it is getting better. The fact that advanced yogis were able to come to the west over the past century, planting the precious seeds of knowledge they did, is a good sign. The fact that a fledgling open resource like AYP on the integration of best-in-class practices has not been quickly stamped out is a measure of our times.
The emergence of the scientific method a few centuries ago (optimization of causes and effects via open source networking) has changed much about the way we live. It has taken a while for it to come to the knowledge of human spiritual transformation, but it finally has. It is my hope that applied spiritual science will keep marching forward. It will be a great support to what is true in every tradition.
Aside from the enabling freedoms and technologies we now have, it has also been a matter of real spiritual experience rising increasingly in the people, providing the basis for ongoing exploration and progress in optimizing causes and effects in spiritual practice. Without the rise of experience (effects), there would be little basis for proceeding with the widespread investigation and application of spiritual methods.
It is in your hands.
The guru is in you.
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