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clk1710
92 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 13 2007 : 10:49:08 PM
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i know i've posted in the past about feeling connected to the actual place where i meditate. we've been renovating our new home for a few months and are finally moving in this weekend and that means that i'll be leaving the only permanent meditation place i've had. i began my meditation practice in this place and i feel like it will be a big loss for me to leave this place and create a new space for myself. i know i can't share this feeling with many people who will understand but i know i can share it here and have people who understand. thanks everyone for providing a space for me to share these thoughts. it always felt like whatever external chaos is happening it's ok because i have my meditation place and until i reesablish a new place it may feel really uncomfortable... hence just another growing experience... facing the discomfort in our lives   !! |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2007 : 12:32:10 PM
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I've been reading a lot of Carlos Castaneda recently. I'm using this reference because I truly feel that all spirituality has the same root. Differing practices simply reflect the values of different societies or cultures. Although the Castaneda practices aren't even close to AYP on the surface, their is one concept Carlos writes about that you may find useful.
In his first couple of books, his benefactor (Don Juan) instructs him to find his "spot". It is a place on his veranda where he is strongest and can gather power. The first place he finds actually makes him weaker. He eventually finds the spot on the veranda that makes him stronger. He is taught that once you have found your spot, it will always be yours. When ever you return to that place, you can count on that spot being their and giving you strength.
He is instructed that the first thing he should do is find his spot whenever he finds himself in a new place. I don't come close to understanding the methods he uses. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the specifics.
The point is, your mediation spot will always be yours, even if you never return to it. You simply need to find the "spot" in your new home that makes you strong. The Castaneda method is ritualized to a degree, but is highly intuitive. I suggest you simply survey your new property and "feel" for your new spot. Certainly you will find a place in your new home that just feels right. You may take comfort in the fact that your original place is only one of many places that can give you strength. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2007 : 3:01:12 PM
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| I think there is virtue in detaching oneself from a physical place where we like to meditate and that makes us feel more sacred or spiritual simply because of its familiarity, associatons, and power that is only present because we give it such. I have a little shrine area set up in my room and when I am forced to conduct my sadhana somewhere else I feel an absence. But I also am sure to acknowledge that it is merely a egoic and physcial attachment and naturally the place where we conduct this form of meditation is irrelevant. Like Yogani said somewhere, we should strive to get to the point where we can effortless find our inner silence during meditation next to a construction site. Or as Jim on the forums noted that our inner stillness is always there, even if we are on a roller coaster blasting Jimi Hendrix through headphones and eating Cheetos...or something to that effect :) |
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clk1710
92 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2007 : 9:57:19 PM
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thanks enlightenmealready and anthony. i think both of you shed light on some important points...
in regards to what you said enlightenmealready: i think it is perfect timing that i am reading this posting right now. this past month, my external world has felt completely chaotic, and my postings have been more scarce. we moved into our new home last month, then had to move out 2 weeks later while all of our floors were being done, so i have had to constantly switch my meditation location. but this weekend we are moving back in -thank goodness!! i was wondering myself about a new meditation spot (along with coping with the stress of merely finding a clean pair of socks!) and frankly i miss my old spot. i haven't felt the same serenity in my practice since i switched. but i'm going to take your suggestion and survey the new home to find a new spot. i really do believe now that different spaces affect me differently.
however, anthony, i think you make a valid point and i think as time goes on we learn to find stillness anywhere- that's certainly the goal of these practices. anyway, it's good just to be on this website. i've felt rather disjointed spiritually and reading these conversations really connects me and is heartwarming to me. so thank you everyone for just being there. these practices and all of you are really home to me. |
Edited by - clk1710 on Oct 12 2007 11:04:26 PM |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2007 : 12:25:29 PM
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| On a purely material level, you have my sympathies with the floors. We had all the hardwood floors redone in our house a few years back. It is way more painful than most people realize. I wasn't even trying to maintain a meditation practice back then. It would have been difficult to say the least. It took a few months to get back in a normal groove. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2007 : 10:56:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
. Like Yogani said somewhere, we should strive to get to the point where we can effortless find our inner silence during meditation next to a construction site. Or as Jim on the forums noted that our inner stillness is always there, even if we are on a roller coaster blasting Jimi Hendrix through headphones and eating Cheetos...or something to that effect :)
Not only that, but the construction site and the roller coaster are HELPFUL. Meditation is about letting go, surrendering to What Is. If What Is includes pounding jack hammers, great, that's part of it. We don't just surrender to the lovelier Is-ness! The more disturbing we find any given iteration of Is-ness, the more opportunity we are given to melt our resistence to seeming "obstacles" (i.e. portions of the universe which NEED TO CHANGE).
Outside of meditation, we have our list of turn-ons and turn-offs (yep, we're all as inane as playmates!)...ways in which the universe needs to shape up and fly right. In meditation, we chuck the list and let the universe do what it does (how ridiculous is that, btw? As if our authority and approval are pertinent! We are indeed deluded!) .....,which includes jack hammers and Cheetos and everything else. We don't "embrace" the jackhammer. We don't "learn not to be affected by the jackhammer". We merely let it all be exactly as it is. There's nothing more ridiculous than trying to push a river! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 19 2007 11:02:48 AM |
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clk1710
92 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2007 : 5:54:12 PM
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| thanks so much enlightenmealready and jim. at a time like this i am so grateful to connect with others like-minded. i also (on top of moving with construction!!) got transfered to a different work location. so basically i've also started a new job as well as of late Aug., and i work in an environment that has very little awareness about the yogic lifestyle and on top of it has been EXTREMELY stressful lately. so i really appreciate connecting here and hearing your words of support... i really value all of your feedback. surrender and gratitude are my prayers for the day! thanks jim for your thoughts on surrender because i have been feeling lately like i'm trying to move a river!! AND ITS DAMN HEAVY!! |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2007 : 7:13:06 PM
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There is no yogic lifestyle. In fact, seeking the yogic lifestyle moves you further into delusion. There is just this moment of this universe right now, however it presents itself. Setting parts of the universe against each other - this I want more of, this I want less of (and when I get all the pieces together correctly it'll all be just right THEN, and then I'll find yoga and it'll all be RIGHT) is just more imprisonment. Whatever you perceive the yogic lifestyle to be is just a different bundle of that. By contrast, yoga is come as you are: right now, as-is. It's already "right".
You don't need to switch lifestyles, adopt a new self-image, another set of cravings and rejections, join another tribe, act another role. Yoga addresses what is right now, right here. Nothing is excluded. Nothing is less yogic. Yoga practice may change some of the sorts of choices and actions you make, but that comes automatically, naturally, and harmonically with what's going on around you.
You don't need to build a structure. Relax into it all right now! |
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clk1710
92 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 09:49:19 AM
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| thanks jim for your wise words! |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 12:17:01 PM
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Jim,
I disagree slightly,
Until you realize nothing else matters, It still matters. I think that is why religions and karma yoga are important. They set up the environment for this realization to occur. Until then however, our environment is going to be a factor. Until we have "the epiphany" you describe, I think seeking the yogic lifestyle is very important. It lets us directly and sincerely "intend" to grow spiritually. Whether it be seeking the yogic lifestyle, or living as a good Christian or whatever.
I think it is precisely these acts of faith that eventually help trigger the realization that none of it matters. At that point we get to meditate buried upside down in a swamp with our feet set on fire without it bothering us. Until then however, I think it is important to establish a place and a practice for ourselves.
I think there is a real danger in pretending we have come to this realization before we actually have. As for myself, I understand what you say intellectually, but I have yet to fully "realize" it.
So to summarize, I agree that seeking the yogic lifestyle confirms that we are still in delusion. However, I think instead of moving us further into delusion, it is the first step in getting out of delusion. Seeking the lifestyle is the first step in realizing their is a delusion to begin with. It's how we choose the red pill, which I guess makes Yogani Morpheus ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8Zq_iWuFg
EMA
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 1:56:30 PM
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I really disagree.
There are tons of people walking around in natural fibers, eating only the most extraordinarily organic vegetarian food, saying yogic sorts of things, keeping a little alter with a little statue of buddha or ganesh by their laserprinter, voting Democrat and feigning horror at cussing or any other form of "negativity", and taking great care to stare with great weight into people's eyes as they talk to them. They act enlightened, hoping that will make them enlightened. But enlightenment is not an action, and it's certainly not a personal style choice. Acting very very pure, very very spiritual is just another role for ego mind to have us play, and the last thing you want to do is get your ego involved in your spiritual practice, which should be a refuge from that. A role is a role. Acting the spiritual role is little better than acting the sex-drugs-and-rock-and-roll role. Well...it's better for your health, but that's it! :) God loves people wearing polyester and eating bleached white flour just as much.
We bathe in undulating endless love, and feel empty only because we work 24/7 to block it. Tribe is refuge...just another illusory ledge of comfort for an ego that frantically needs to hold on (i.e. reinforce its borders of identity) even though letting go is not only safe but delightful.
As Yogani says, acting enlightened doesn't make you enlightened. Quite the contrary, it's a sort of holding on. What makes you enlightened is diligent practice (DO yoga, without feeling obliged to ACT like you do yoga!). And diligent practice makes you naturally act in certain ways and make certain choices out of inner wisdom. Forcing it, pretending and acting, not only doesn't help, but strengthens the shackles.
Most people who meet me would never ever imagine that I'm someone who spends hours per day on sadhana (including asana, service, and contemplation). The only way they'd know is if I telegraphed cues (i.e. style choices). The only reason I'd feel motivated to telegraph cues would be because of a stake I'd have in how I'm assessed - a need to be seen as "deep". But stakedness is the ground zero of ego mind...the seed from which that whole plant grows. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 24 2007 10:08:47 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2007 : 2:18:14 PM
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one postscript....I said: "And diligent practice makes you naturally act in certain ways and make certain choices out of inner wisdom"
So it could be seen that it's all the same in the end....your inner guru guides you naturally and organically to the same lifestyle I'm urging against willfully adapting. And that's true but it's not true. My "lifestyle" still doesn't have much in common with the people I see at yoga retreats. I do eat healthy, I am a lot less negative, and hardly a moment goes by without a thought of...if not God, at least a more inner kosha than physical. But the lifestyle looks, even from superficial view, a lot different when you're naturally doing those things rather than making a display (to yourself or to others) of doing those things. The things that still make me apparently not a complete yogi will eventually be resolved by God (aka my inner guru)...or they're unnecessary add-ons people have larded onto it all over the years (larding on add-ons being a particular human specialty!). Meanwhile, I don't really fit the mold. Nor do my postings here fit the mold, which rubs some the wrong way, I know. But I don't aspire to be like the yogis we see on TV - mirthful, doe-eyed archetypes. I don't have a preconceived notion of any of that. I'm just trying to drop baggage and to wipe away muddy protective layering, rather than to redecorate it all.
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 24 2007 10:06:32 PM |
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enlightenmealready
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2007 : 10:25:19 PM
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Jim,
I think we might be saying the same thing from different points of view. I'm not talking about a visible lifestyle by any means. I'm simply saying that the realization you talked about must actually come before it makes any sense. Simply walking around and acting as if you are in the now because you think that is what you should be doing is useless.
Again, I think we mean the same thing essentially. Doing anything for the show of it is delusional. I'm saying that until the realization happens, the individual will need to find a quiet place to meditate and practice regularly. Nobody else ever need know about it. I just don't think there is any way to force the realization to happen. You need to sincerely intend for it to happen. I should probably stick with AYP terms and say that Desire is the necessary ingredient. Until enlightenment comes, our desire is going to naturally push us to seek out spiritual practices.
In a nutshell, clk1710 should find him/her self a nice comfortable place to meditate. He/She shouldn't worry about the fact that they still need to do so.
Did I mention that I think we are saying the same thing? ;-) |
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