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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 07:23:28 AM
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I was talking with a Zen friend about Katrine's experience of the body moving without her being a part of it. The realization that "I" am not doing this. The Zen friend said that happens with their tradition, and is called "dropping away of body and mind".
What I am curious about is that their tradition doesn't do pranayama and seems to have no talk of ecstatic conductivity. So what does this mean?
Is a path incomplete without conductivity, and why would it be? Can there be outpouring divine love anyway? I don't necessarily need to judge the Zen path, but I am curious if something we feel is so important can be left out, and maybe still somehow be complete in the long run? |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 10:58:01 AM
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| There is apparently a lot of room under the hood. |
Edited by - Kyman on Aug 24 2007 11:00:36 AM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 2:46:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I was talking with a Zen friend about Katrine's experience of the body moving without her being a part of it. The realization that "I" am not doing this. The Zen friend said that happens with their tradition, and is called "dropping away of body and mind".
What I am curious about is that their tradition doesn't do pranayama and seems to have no talk of ecstatic conductivity. So what does this mean?
Is a path incomplete without conductivity, and why would it be?
this probably sounds nosey, but:
all paths are incomplete, and all paths are complete 
quote:
Can there be outpouring divine love anyway?
IMO yes, it's all about understanding consciousness
and isn't Zen leaning heavily towards consciousness.
quote:
I don't necessarily need to judge the Zen path, but I am curious if something we feel is so important can be left out, and maybe still somehow be complete in the long run?
May be it can be complete for some, if that is what they
did intend to learn in this life ...
In the end everybody can answer this question only for himself.
my 2 cts
Wolfgang |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 6:48:02 PM
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Hi Ether,
This question whether ecstatic conductivity is a necessary part of the path to enlightenment or not, has been discussed in the thread about Adyashanti, who also doesn't talk much about kundalini or ecstatic conductivity. Here is an answer from Yogani with his view:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1502#11299 |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 7:02:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by weaver
...an answer from Yogani with his view:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1502#11299
Yogani writes: "So it is good if we can understand what these experiences [energy experiences] are ("scenery") so we can stay the course, preferably while enjoying ourselves along the way."
That makes sense: It is a lot easier to do regular practices when I have energy experiences; it helps me enjoy the journey. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 7:30:46 PM
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Thanks Weaver.
Does that mean that ecstatic conductivity is just another experience, and not really necessary?
Conversely, does it mean that ecstatic conductivity can rise without any spinal breathing or other pranayama?
If so, all our practices must be just little ways to push us along the path we are already on?
And if so, is outpouring divine love the inevitable result of the paths everyone is on?
My guess is that the answer is yes to all of these. Except maybe that purification is necessary to conduct the divine love which usually results in ecstatic conductivity. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2007 : 8:56:04 PM
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Hi Ether,
What we usually call the experience of ecstatic conductivity is in reality friction that arises when the light encounters the impurities in the nervous system. When the nervous system has been purified, the light can pass through it in large amounts without this feeling of friction. It will rather manifest in a refined form, one aspect of which can be called outpouring divine love.
AYP has been called a fast track to enlightenment. It is a system that works directly with the inner energies, and therefore it works very efficiently, and because of the speed of the purification there is also a lot of friction during the earlier stages. As we know, there are many other paths to enlightenment that don't work directly on the inner energies, but rather indirectly. Therefore these other paths usually take longer time to reach the goal. With less direct work on the inner energies there will be less friction, and therefore one might not experience ecstatic conductivity as such. The process may be so gradual that it is not noticed. The end result of outpouring divine love may seem to arise by itself.
I would also agree with you that the answer is "yes" to the questions you wrote. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2007 : 08:55:00 AM
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| Wow; good answer. That is exactly what I was wondering about. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2007 : 11:39:34 AM
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quote:
Conversely, does it mean that ecstatic conductivity can rise without any spinal breathing or other pranayama?
It can, "ecstatic conductivity" started for me before I ever did any spinal breathing or pranayama. I had been doing guided visualizations at the time. This is the same for a friend of mine who has had energy experiences just using the "I am" AYP deep meditation. I seem to recall having read somewhere that there are plenty of examples of people having spontaneous "kundalini" awakenings without practices.
A
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2007 : 09:56:40 AM
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| Etherfish, Patanjali does not mention the word Kundalini in his work. |
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Silence without Ecstatic Conductivity
