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rkishan
USA
102 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 21 2007 : 2:59:56 PM
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I started iyengar yoga recently. I was taught siddhasana on the first class (I am practicing some of the AYP methods in the last 6 months and before that differenet forms of kriya yoga). The siddhasana that I was taught in the iyengar yoga class seems different from the one that I have learned from AYP. In the iyengar method the body does not rest on the heel; or the heel does not even come near and touch the perineum. So there is no stimulation whatsoever.
From reading the AYP lessons, my understanding was that the stimulation was the whole idea of the siddhasana. Can some one experienced in iyengar method clarify why the siddhasana is designed that way?
What is the right way to do Siddhasana?
Also, I read on some old post that iyengar methods are carefully designed to avoid kundalini awakening. So, my next question is whether I should start looking for some other asana class. I am not sure if I want to practice the methods which does not result in kundalini awakening even for the advanced practitioners. Again, if some one experienced on Iyengar methods throw some light on this I would appreciate it. I don't want to spend a whole lot of time learning the wrong method of asanas and practice them and find out later on that I have to do things differently. (No disrespect to iyengar or his teachers. I understand that he is a great authority on yoga. I just want to follow the right steps from the beginning in asanas which will take me closer to my goal. And avoiding kundalini awakening in the long run is not part of my goal.)
Ram |
Edited by - rkishan on Aug 23 2007 3:48:49 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2007 : 8:40:54 PM
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| I find it interesting that you learned Siddhasana in a very early class with an Iyengar teacher yet for some reason it was never covered at all when I took the Iyengar teacher training. That being said and having been trained in Iyengar style and having read Light On Yoga and having practiced Siddhasana daily for several years now I would suggest that Iyengar is looking at this pose from an alignment point of view rather than as a stimulation one. Here is what I mean: When I started working on Siddhasana I found that trying to put the heel in the perineum caused a distortion to my pelvis and spine. The pose caused tension and discomform in my body and did not feel right at all. With time and careful use of folded blankets under the buttocks and allowing the heel to sit where the legs felt the most comfort rather than attempting to place the heel in a "proper" place I found that little by little my body would have a series of tiny releases each of which opened up some areas that were blocked. Now after about 3 years I sit flat on the floor and my heel very nicely tucks right in the center of the perineum. I don't sit on the heel but just let it tuck under a bit. Is my practice sexually stimulating? I would have to say that it is not sexually as in genitally stimulating but I feel the energy flows through my body very clearly so it feels like the pose is correct. I hope this helps you and isn't further confusing. If the Iyengar system is supposed to avoid kundalini that is something that no one ever suggested at the Iyengar Institute but on the other hand I would say that kundalini was never specifically addressed or worked with either. |
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rkishan
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2007 : 12:59:33 AM
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Victor,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, I was taught siddhasana on the first day of my first class. After few weeks I started going to another teacher's class and this teacher did not teach Siddhasana. Siddhasana (yogani's method was little difficult for me in the beginning. But I got used to it the same way that you did with folded blankets.)
I read the 'light on yoga' also before starting with the asanas class. It was a great book describing the postures. My aim is not to master the asanas anyway. I want to take the approach suggested by AYP towards asana. I see the value added by asanas. But at the same time, meditation and pranaya comes before asanas for me. Another interesting thing that happened in the iyengar yoga class is when I told one of the teachers during a conversation that I do pranayama regularly. And she was telling me that I am not supposed to do pranayama for at least 3 years until I become steady with the asanas. I understood that their approach is different. I respect their system, but choose to differ since I feel meditation and pranayama have helped me a lot in the past years. So, I would agree with Yogani's methods. If I had to get established with the asanas and then start with other practices then I can not imagine where I would have been if I followed that method. At the same time I respect the values that asanas bring and that is the reason I have enrolled on this class. But I do not want go through methods which are designed in such a way to avoid kundalini and that was the reason for my question and this thread.
Ram.
Ram. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2007 : 09:41:23 AM
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| In light on yoga, mr. iyengar seems to do the stimulating version, and lauds it as a super-essential posture. he later backed off and now hardly teaches it at all. given that centuries of yogis all agreed with his initial reaction, and the pose does stimulate kundalini, and the name of the pose reflects its ability to cultivate siddhis (thru that energetic power), and given that mr. iyengar has taken other steps to stave off kundalini stimulation (e.g. jalabandra and no touch of tongue to upper palate in pranayama), I think it's fair to assume the pose taught by rkishan's instructor was an intentionally modified and diluted pose. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2007 : 11:48:53 AM
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Hi Ram,
I have never bought into the notion that a person could sit comfortably with his heel in his perineum as shown in many yoga books, or even that the person demonstrating the pose actually has their heel in their perineum (but after reading Victor's post I could be wrong). The knees are always very far apart in their pictures and it is anatomically impossible for me to get my heel into the perineum with out my knee being angled almost straight out from my body (my tibias must be too short  ). I just don't see how it is possible in the position shown in the books. I know that I am speaking for myself but maybe others here can give their experience.
Well, what is the essence of what we are trying to accomplish with Siddhasana, anyways? I would say it is to be able to sit comfortably with out distraction and simultaneously stimulate the perineum to cultivate sexual energy to a higher level. Does it matter how we accomplish it? All I can say is that a rolled up sock in the half lotus does the job very well for me. Good old American ingenuity ala AYP. As Bruce Lee, would say, "Efficiency is anything that scores; using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation."
Hope that helps a little, yb.
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Edited by - yogibear on Aug 22 2007 11:53:09 AM |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2007 : 5:23:03 PM
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Yb, same situation here as you and Victor. When I first tried that pose it was uncomfortable. I came back to try it recently and I am able to sit quite comfortably in it.
I'm still using the full lotus though, as it is really opening up the hips. After my body has finished enjoying the lotus, I will begin to establish myself in siddhasana.
Cheers, gentlemen.
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rkishan
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2007 : 11:00:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
In light on yoga, mr. iyengar seems to do the stimulating version, and lauds it as a super-essential posture. he later backed off and now hardly teaches it at all.
Well I bought the book "Light on Yoga" last month and read most parts of the book excluding the details of difficult postures. He does talk quite a bit and hails the siddhasana. And then, I am not sure if he is doing the stimulating version. The instructions clearly state that the perinium should not rest on the heel. May be the book also changed through the years!!! |
Edited by - rkishan on Aug 22 2007 11:34:12 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2007 : 01:31:51 AM
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The book has not changed. I really do feel that this posture can use some further focus here on the board as it is clearly central to AYP as well as experienced differently by different people. A few clarifications from my own practice.
I would say that with depth in the pose that the stimulation is more energetic than a physical pressure as such. I believe that Iyengar is correct in Light On Yoga and see no reason to think otherwise. In my experience you do not sit on the heel but rather the male genitals rest on the bottom heel (penis and scrotum),while the weight and balance of the body is on the thighs evenly from buttocks to knees. In Iyengars photo from Light On Yoga the top heel also seems to line up in midline under the navel. I had attempted to do this at one time and it caused distortion. In my body the top heel crosses a little past the midline though my bottom heel sits in the midline. The trick is to know how to go from where you are right now to the deeper pose that perhaps looks more like the book (or may not). We all have somewhat different body proportions and that is why lining up the end of our limbs (heels) is problematic unless the root of the limb is in good alignment. Personally I also don't really feel that physical pressure from the heel is as significant in the pose as good alignment, Kechari, and developing the energetic currents of ecstatic conductivity from a combination of sexual cultivation and refinement in the sitting pose. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2007 : 01:41:24 AM
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| Here is a link to perhaps the best photo that I have found of Siddhasana. This pose is done by John Schumacher (a senior Iyengar teacher). If you want to go deeper into the pose I would study this photo closely http://mozaika.bloguje.cz/siddha.JPG |
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rkishan
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2007 : 3:31:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Here is a link to perhaps the best photo that I have found of Siddhasana. This pose is done by John Schumacher (a senior Iyengar teacher). If you want to go deeper into the pose I would study this photo closely http://mozaika.bloguje.cz/siddha.JPG
Excellent picture representation of the siddhasana. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic also.
The hands are in chin mudra on the photo. Is this something that we practice with siddhasana? |
Edited by - rkishan on Aug 23 2007 11:47:06 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2007 : 9:26:21 PM
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| We are not told to practice a specific mudra in AYP but to simply let the hands rest comfortably where they will. In my experience my hands seemed to float sometimes and sometimes rest palms up and sometimes down . Lately as my practice has deepened this mudra has come quite spontaneously so in my case I do the mudra but it is not because i am supposed to |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2013 : 6:37:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Here is a link to perhaps the best photo that I have found of Siddhasana. This pose is done by John Schumacher (a senior Iyengar teacher). If you want to go deeper into the pose I would study this photo closely http://mozaika.bloguje.cz/siddha.JPG
The link is dead, and isn't in the internet archive. Did anyone by any chance save a copy of the photo? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
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SuryaDeva
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 1:00:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogibear
Hi Ram,
I have never bought into the notion that a person could sit comfortably with his heel in his perineum as shown in many yoga books, or even that the person demonstrating the pose actually has their heel in their perineum (but after reading Victor's post I could be wrong). The knees are always very far apart in their pictures and it is anatomically impossible for me to get my heel into the perineum with out my knee being angled almost straight out from my body (my tibias must be too short ). I just don't see how it is possible in the position shown in the books. I know that I am speaking for myself but maybe others here can give
Haha it's so funny - I have the same issue like yogibear described - my heal stops at about 3 inches or so away from the perineum and it looks anatomically impossible even if I get flexible enough to actually be able to sit like that. I can't say my tibia is too short because it looks perfectly fine ( let's say my femur is too long LOL) but I did notice on some demonstrations some people sit with their legs angled forward more than others...
Most of them look so effortless though - I guess it's called the Perfect pose (if I remember correctly) for a reason
Namaste
SD |
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chinmayo
Finland
67 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 7:02:40 PM
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I have had similar issues with the asana too :)
Sometimes I need to spend a little time to find the right posture with siddhasana, but it has also a lot to do with how you position the lower leg. I mean, do you push the heel so that it is more upwards or backwards. And the pressure that the heel has on the perineum can be adjusted by using a pillow or seat so that the heel touches the perineum in a comfortable fashion. I prefer to use a thin decorative cushion folded so that it forms a slight 'slope' like '/'. If the cushion is too hard or too thick it gives too much pressure on the perineum which isn't so enjoyable.
What comes to mudras, that chin mudra like in the picture above comes often very naturally during pranayama, but then slowly eases off during DM. Sometimes the hands are open with palms facing upwards on the knees after the DM, or perhaps in a zazen-like mudra with the hands forming a cup with the thumbs touching each other. I'm just waiting for the time when the automatic yoga puts the fingers in the chinmayo mudra :-D
I can't say I know anything about mudras, but the energy can be felt when using chin mudra. In kundalini yoga there is a kirtan meditation, where you chant a mantra 'satnam' emphasizing every syllable, and switching the finger of the mudra on each syllable. It is said that each mudra affects different aspects of the brain, and this specific kirtan is powerful because it affects many aspects in one meditation. As I said, I do not know, I'm just parroting what I have been taught. But it really does have a noticeable effect on the energy if I do the mudra or leave it out.
Siddhasana means something like 'The seat of the perfected ones'. Doesn't sound like the easiest seat to me :D Although I find it much easier to sit in compared to for example padmasana which makes one leg go numb on longer (30min+) sittings. I had trouble leaving the yoga class last week due to dead leg during the final kirtan. Nobody told me to sit in padmasana though so it was my own fault lol |
Edited by - chinmayo on Nov 22 2013 7:27:28 PM |
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Siddhasana clarification with iyengar method?
