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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:03:26 PM
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It has been said that kechari stills the thought.
Also that the breath and mind are related, breath control is mind control and so through kumbhaka mind can be controlled.
But in my experience both these statements are untrue. I have been doing kechari(stage 2 and 3) and kumbhaka(like yoni mudra kumbaka) for more than a year. And everytime I am in kechari or kumbaka, my mind races much faster(with all kinds of thought) and I find it difficult to get rid of the thoughts. And then when I get out of kechari or kumbhaka, the thought slow down to the normal level.
So what's going on here. Do others experience this or is it unique to me. Also I wouldn't want to subscribe to the releasing obstruction idea in this case because it is not an isolated incident, I have been observing it for more than a year and it hasn't changed. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 11 2007 7:57:29 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:46:45 PM
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| Hi gentle - I've noticed that when I'm in kechari during meditation, I'm less likely to sink into it deeply. I'm not sure whether it's due to mind chatter or excess energy, but the tongue is definitely a distraction. Usually after about 5 minutes or so into the meditation I remember to return my tongue to normal resting position, and then I can finally get 'lost' in the meditation. I've been noticing this for a while, and am glad that you brought it up. If kechari mudra is for the purpose of bridging the circuit of energy from throat to ajna, then it makes some sense to me that it would be most useful during spinal breathing, but less so during meditation, when inner silence is the intent. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:57:29 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 9:54:01 PM
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| I don't have a problem with racing thoughts combined with Kechari at all, but I have noticed that while learning to develop comfort in Kechari that there is a certain tension that happens at the root of the tongue/throat/base of the skull that could certainly cause tension in the mind. That does seem to go away with time as the practice of Kechari becomes effortless, so my guess is that the distraction that you feel is the EFFORT of the kechari practice, not the actual energetics. I get that experience with tucking of the toes in Siddhasana and am working through it |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 10:12:48 PM
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| Hi meg and victor, it's not only during the sitting practices but other times I have observed this as well. I do kechari during the idle moments in the day as well (e.g. while taking a stroll outside or sitting and waiting for someone or something.) It seems a natural position for the tongue and gives a nice buzzing feeling in the head. I don't think I am overdoing as I never had the problem of energy excesses. So it's just the question of excessive thoughts. It seems like rather than being out there, me and my thoughts are trapped inside my head. They say the thoughts come from the heart but I feel everything inside the head. |
Edited by - gentlep on Jul 11 2007 11:37:41 PM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 11:26:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
Hi meg and victor, it's not only during the sitting practices but other times I have observed this as well. I do kechari during the idle moments in the day as well (e.g. while taking a stroll outside or sitting and waiting for someone or something.) It seems a natural position for the tongue and gives a nice buzzing feeling in the head. I don't think I am overdoing as I never had the problem of energy excesses. So it's just the question of excessive thoughts. It seems like rather than being out there, me and my thoughts are trapped inside my head. They say the thoughts come from the heart but I feel everything inside the head.
Hi Gentlep:
Kechari is primarily an energy technique, as are all the mudras and bandhas. The degree to which they enhance (move) inner silence and quiet the mind will depend on the degree to which inner silence is present already, which is a function of daily deep meditation practice, and samyama also.
In AYP we use our spinal breathing pranayama time for the cultivation of mudra and bandha habits, developing them one at a time. Once mudras and bandhas become easy habit, they may happen naturally as a result of our inner energy flows (when they all happen together subtly it is called "whole body mudra"). Then mudras and bandhas may appear in deep meditation and in other parts of our sitting practices besides spinal breathing, and in daily activity also. This is fine.
However, we do not "intentionally" practice mudras and bandhas in deep meditation or samyama, because this will divert attention from these specific mental procedures.
The effective development of mudras and bandhas is covered in the lessons, and especially in the Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas book (pages 71-78 - "Filling in the Practice Routine").
As for doing kechari during the day, this is okay if it is not disruptive. "Self-pacing" is the watchword for all of our practices. 
The guru is in you.
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 4:43:29 PM
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Hi gentlep,
Kechari for me definitely quiets the mind. In stage 3 particularly it is very noticeable. Stage 2 must be helping as well as I find myself in stage 2 quite often throughout the day and always while riding on my motorcycle. I believe that stage 2 has more of a pacifier effect of calming for me. Victor probably nailed it. You have to be very comfortable with kechari. If it does not feel completely natural it will just be a distraction. Practice it throughout the day to gain comfort.
Yoni mudra does make my mind race a little because of kumbhaka, but after I am finished and respiration smooths out my mind begins to settle down nicely. I don't think that breath retention is going to slow the mind. Slowing the breath down to a subtle breath definitely does.
Paul |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2010 : 6:48:43 PM
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I haven't visited this site or forum for a long time. Was down with personal crisis.
Just now I came across this new lesson, "solar Centering Enhancement", http://www.aypsite.org/368.html
Now it makes perfect sense on what was happening with me. I had been doing kechari very sparingly since then and through trial and error I found that by putting my attention on heart or lower was helping with the excessive thought. This lesson clarifies it. The attention was automatically going to the head with kechari and hence the excessive thoughts
And now the question, is it better to put attention on solar-plexus then? One thing I observe is that: by putting attention on solar-plexus brings up too much of pent-up emotions. It is just the opposite of what was happening while the attention was going to the head, i.e. too many thoughts. Attention on heart was helping as balance between too many thoughts vs. too much emotions. Can you comment on that Yogani? |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2010 : 11:06:33 PM
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| gentlep, sounds like there is a layer of something that you are working through. Its time to explore those sensations and feelings while putting awareness in those areas. Its a purification process and very individual and personal. If you do steady practice you will move through it and likely find a new layer under that. its just how it seems to work, you get a clue (such as solar enhancement) and then you feel what is hiding in that area, then eventually it shifts and changes and the practice moves on... |
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kechari, kumbhaka and thoughts
